1996

[the captain]

Although he is not necessarally coming up with great new material, the Pet Sounds and Smile tours were awesome. I haven't seen or heard LOS yet, but I hear its great.

TLOS is better than any new* Beach Boys-related recording since ... oh, Love You, probably. At least. (Although that is a hard comparison because the sound of it is so entirely different.) So Brian definitely is coming up with great new material.


*I'm not counting Smile as new just because the vast majority of it was already written, recorded and widely booted. So while it was a monumental event and a great opportunity to get it all in one, officially released and completed place, it wasn't really entirely (or even mostly) new, other than new recordings of old material.

[Jonas]

No love for LA or KTSA?

[the captain]

No love for LA or KTSA?

I don't think MIU, LA or KTSA are totally without merit. But I do think TLOS is pretty far superior to each of them. (Although without it having been recorded, it's hard to gauge it just yet. A lot can go wrong in performance and production, as each of Brian's solo albums other than Smile has proved to me beyond a shadow of a doubt.)

[Emdeeh]

No love for LA or KTSA?

I LOVE KTSA -- so there!

[Sheriff John Stone]

No love for LA or KTSA?

Both of those albums started out optimistically with a very involved Brian Wilson. However, Brian became ill during L.A. and had to call in Bruce, and, for KTSA, Brian started out strong, "singing like a bird" for about a week, then faded again. Thus, we have two uneven at best albums.

[Mark H.]

At the time the original Brian Wilson solo lp was for me the best release since Love You or maybe even Holland; over time it hasn't worn quite that well but it will always be special.  Prior to that release, I never expected another note from Brian.

I like LA alot and like parts of KTSA.  You can basically keep MIU.

[Eric Aniversario]

The Beach boys won't be entirely dead until there is just one of them left, and then it will be the Beach Boy. And when that one goes it will be a sad, sad day because they were something really special. I say enjoy any last traces of them if you can, while you can.

That's my philosophy.  Lawsuits and bickering aside, I go out and enjoy all the touring bands when they come within 50 (sometimes more) miles of me.

[the captain]

I feel differently, but both more and less fortunate. I think I missed any chance at a true Beach Boys live show, not having gotten interested until around the time of Carl's death. (And frankly, I don't think I'd have been much interested in seeing them live anyway unless it had been 15 or 20 years earlier.) But on the other hand, for me, the Beach Boys won't die until I do, because my experience of them is far more based on their recordings. And so as long as I've got my hearing and a medium by which to listen, I'm fine. For me, Brian's, Al's, Mike's and Bruce's voices are all still pristine, and Carl and Dennis (and sometimes David, Ricky, Blondie and others) are singing right alongside them.

[Eric Aniversario]

TLOS is better than any new* Beach Boys-related recording since ... oh, Love You, probably. At least. (Although that is a hard comparison because the sound of it is so entirely different.) So Brian definitely is coming up with great new material.


*I'm not counting Smile as new just because the vast majority of it was already written, recorded and widely booted. So while it was a monumental event and a great opportunity to get it all in one, officially released and completed place, it wasn't really entirely (or even mostly) new, other than new recordings of old material.

There are a handful of albums since Love You that I would say are comparable in terms of artistic merit.  I'm a big LA Light Album fan, and I also enjoy Orange Crate Art (probably my favorite 90's album by any artist), and also BW 88.  I also have a soft spot for Summer In Paradise, which I know doesn't really measure up artistically, but it is still enjoyable nonetheless.  I hope that last sentence doesn't take away from the two before it!  

[the captain]

Oh, I realize other people think differently than me about some of the albums in that span, and that's fine. And, as I said, I can't really make a fair assessment of a TLOS album until I hear one, because frankly, I could have liked each of BW's solo albums much more than I do if it had been presented (i.e., performed, arranged and produced) differently. The same collection of songs can be saved, ruined or just changed by any number of choices in the studio. So as I've heard TLOS, I rank it as better than those you mentioned. But we'll see.

[Beach Boy]

I love KTSA.    But I love every album besides 15 BO. 

In a similar topic some one said, that the Beach Boys will never die.

[MBE]

I would have to go with the brief 1977 break up as far as them being a real functioning band. It was never quite the same after that. Some of the 76-77 studio recordings and concerts leave me cold, but it still felt like a group especially on 15 Big Ones despite artistic merits or lack thereof.

I can't really fault much from 1961-74 at all. Smile or not there output was amazing and the band remained a great creative entity. Remember at least through 70-71 Brian was more often involved then not.  From 1975-77 some concerts were flawless but some showed an increasing amount of apathy. I guess you could say the Beach Boys from late 77-late 80 were not without merit but they were pulling in different directions. It's almost like LA Light is their White Album. Some very good music sitting with some very bad, the group at times not working on each others tracks. Kind of a collection of solo cuts.

 The real implosion happened when Carl left. While the concerts perked up a bit in 82-83, after Dennis died he and Brian both were never quite as vigilant in keeping the group a flourishing studio band. By 1986 when the cheerleaders started it's obvious Carl wasn't putting up much of a fight anymore on stage either. It's just sad to watch their post Dennis years. I guess officially 1998 would be the real break up, but I just wish they had broken up when Murry died really.

[Sheriff John Stone]

By 1986 when the cheerleaders started it's obvious Carl wasn't putting up much of a fight anymore on stage either.

When you say "it's obvious" - didn't Carl approve of the cheerleaders? I never read an interview with him being critical of them.

I remember the TV show, Solid Gold, when Carl was a musical guest. He was singing "What You Do To Me" - one of his own solo songs - and he was surrounded by The Solid Gold Dancers, much like The Beach Boys' Cheerleaders. Do you know if Carl had a problem with the dancers?

[Emdeeh]

didn't Carl approve of the cheerleaders?

I think it's more a case of putting up with them, rather than approving. Carl was also willing to let them go in '96.

Personally, I never liked the cheerleaders because they always blocked my view of the band I paid good money to see. And the BBs played better without the distraction of dancers.

And I'm glad the BBs stayed together as long as they did.

[Jay]

When did The Beach Boys "breakup"? That's a hard question, that requires several different answers. I think that the Holland album was the last time where the group recorded truly "forward thinking" music.  Their next album, 15BO, was filled with a lot of oldies. I think that 1980 was the year where the group stopped really making a serious effort with their studio recordings. Somebody from this messageboard(who will remain nameless) sent me a recording of the group at the Philadelphia Spectrum from that year. They actually performed about half of the KTSA album. By the next year, Carl would be gone, Adrian Baker(*shudder*) would be in his place, and the group introduced their "car medley" that year.  Carl came back a year later, and the group started to sound a little better. I have a video of the group at Seattle in 1983, and even though their set was starting to be dominated by the car songs, they still put on a very good show. But things changed all of a sudden when Dennis died. Somebody mentioned the fact that Carl seemed to not care as much after that. Personally, I think Carl "gave up" when people like Jeff Foskett started to sing lead in concert more often than an actual "Beach Boy" did. Technically, the group ended as a creative unit when Summer in Paradise came out. When I say "creative", I would define it as "Any effort whatsoever to make a somewhat cohesive studio recording". Things changed again when Carl died. A Beach Boys concert without him singing "God Only Knows" just doesn't seem to matter. But, consider this: What if Brian had returned to the group full time after Carl died? Would a group that features Brian, Al, Bruce, and Mike really still be "The Beach Boys"?

[Chris Brown]

Would a group that features Brian, Al, Bruce, and Mike really still be "The Beach Boys"?

That is actually the only lineup that I could call "The Beach Boys".  Not so much the quantity of original members, but having Brian in there makes it legit for me.  I just don't think you can call a group " The Beach Boys" without having a Wilson on stage. 

[MBE]

Carl fought with Mike a lot in the 70's to keep the show current, to keep the relavant, to not overdue the oldies. I just think that things like alowing cheerleaders up on stage shows an indifference that wasn't there when he left in 1981. He had cared so much that the shows were becoming oldies revues he just went and left. After Dennis died I just see a change in Carl. I'm not saying he didn't try at all anymore, but he didn't seem to have the passion that he had before. He let Mike make most major decisons in the 80's and 90's, and the group suffered greatly for it.  The boxset tour and the summer of 88 were the only times I think the 84-97 shows reached the quality he had previously demanded. I never spoke to him, and I am sure he did love being a Beach Boys, but I feel he gave up the fight in 1984. His goal became keeping  the Beach Boys together period. If that meant relaxing his standards on stage, I guess he felt it was for the greater good.

[Beach Boy]

I can't understand why nobody helped Carl with keeping the setlist fresh, since Al was too worried about their set in the early 80ies,  and then again in the 90ies.

[Jay]

I think that Carl and Brian both lost heart in the group when they lost their brother.  I think that from 1984-1997 Carl and Brian were just "along for the ride". I'm not saying that they didn't totally not care about the group anymore. I just think that they lost their "passion" once all the fighting and general craziness of the rock and roll lifestyle claimed their brother.

[MBE]

I think that Carl and Brian both lost heart in the group when they lost their brother.  I think that from 1984-1997 Carl and Brian were just "along for the ride". I'm not saying that they didn't totally not care about the group anymore. I just think that they lost their "passion" once all the fighting and general craziness of the rock and roll lifestyle claimed their brother.

I agree 100 percent. Brian was somewhat forced away at first by Landy, but by 1992 he didn't care like he had even 10 years earlier. In the 1981 Les Chan informal interview with Brian, he speaks out against people going solo stating he thinks a group situation was better. So to me Dennis' death has to be the major turning point as to when he changed his attitude. Carl it's just obvious from the set. Why did he and Al not go against Mike and Bruce? I can only guess that their communication off stage wasn't what it should have been.

[Jay]

I think that perhaps financial reasons played a part in it. We all know that The Beach Boys were huge in the 1960's, but by the 1990's they were playing country fair's. Think about this: would you rather sing a dud like "Kokomo" and make a million dollars, or sing a song like Feel Flows and...not make a million dollars?  Maybe the group didn't argue against Mike out of sheer need to be financially secure?

[Smilin Ed H]

I think Al is caught between commercial sounding summery pop and, shall we say, more artistic folk-oriented stuff; quite often with the BB, the former has prevailed. I had high hopes for his new album - until I heard the extract which is summery pop and more than a little derivative.

[Rocker]

I think Al is caught between commercial sounding summery pop and, shall we say, more artistic folk-oriented stuff; quite often with the BB, the former has prevailed. I had high hopes for his new album - until I heard the extract which is summery pop and more than a little derivative.

You mean this "Postcard from California"-thing? If you haven't heard more than most of us (that is the snippet on Al's site) I think you can't judge it. "California energy blues" is a very cool track imo and it's not summery pop. I have high hopes for his albums, as I think that he's a very capable musician and producer. Of course, I could be wrong and the album turns into some "Looking back with love"-thing

[Smilin Ed H]

"I think that he's a very capable musician and producer."

I don't disagree.  I hope I'm wrong because I've been looking forward to it!

[Sheriff John Stone]

I think that perhaps financial reasons played a part in it. We all know that The Beach Boys were huge in the 1960's, but by the 1990's they were playing country fair's. Think about this: would you rather sing a dud like "Kokomo" and make a million dollars, or sing a song like Feel Flows and...not make a million dollars?  Maybe the group didn't argue against Mike out of sheer need to be financially secure?

Thank you, thank you, thank you! There was and is a lot of hypocrisy going on.

But back to the cheerleaders....I've never been able to figure out why they/that upset so many people on this board. They didn't bother me. I enjoyed seeing them. They didn't block my view, they improved it! All they did was dance to a couple of oldies, enhanced the song if you will. If they bothered you so much, you didn't have to watch them. I actually heard a lot of applause when they were on stage.

Brian brought out power tools for "The Workshop Song", vegetables for "Vega-tables", and a fire hose for "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow". I guarantee it, GUARANTEE IT, if he would've brought out cheerleaders for "California Girls", people would've applauded it and proclaimed him a genius for it.