Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again

[leggo of my ego]

Is the song "If I could live my life again" a different track?

[Jason]

That's All Alone.

[chris.metcalfe]

I'd have bid on this... if I'd known...

[Shady]

If anything, this thread has heightened interest in the upcoming box set.  I'll be buying it, but it better have WIBNTLA on it.  

At this point the box has to have it on it.

[FatherOfTheMan Sr101]

Hey Beach_boys_fr, I understand man, maybe you were asked to stop on the subject, maybe you can't share, alright! JUST PLEASE LET US KNOW I CAN'T SIT HERE WAITING ANY LONGER AHHHH HAHAHA

[runnersdialzero]

As to calling the new owner names because he won't share with the masses, that's uncalled for.  Think of it this way -- I love fine wines.  If I bought a bottle of 2000 Chateau Lafite Rothschild, I might take it to a nice restaurant to share with a few family members or close friends, but if you were a stranger sitting across the room I probably wouldn't pour you a glass.  The owner is well within his rights to share, or not share, as he pleases.

Totally off with that analogy. This guy basically has infinite bottles of 2000 Chateau Lafite Rothschild. If I had infinite bottles of 2000 Chateau Lafite Rothschild, you bet your tits I'd be sharing with everyone in the restaurant that night. The guy offered the same not long ago, so I understand the frustration of people. Fair enough on it being his right to not share, and I don't agree with calling him names, but still.

[AndrewHickey]

As to calling the new owner names because he won't share with the masses, that's uncalled for.  Think of it this way -- I love fine wines.  If I bought a bottle of 2000 Chateau Lafite Rothschild, I might take it to a nice restaurant to share with a few family members or close friends, but if you were a stranger sitting across the room I probably wouldn't pour you a glass.  The owner is well within his rights to share, or not share, as he pleases.

Totally off with that analogy. This guy basically has infinite bottles of 2000 Chateau Lafite Rothschild. If I had infinite bottles of 2000 Chateau Lafite Rothschild, you bet your tits I'd be sharing with everyone in the restaurant that night.

Even if there was a law against sharing Chateau Lafite Rothschild, the people who enforce the law against sharing Chateau Lafite Rothschild were sat at the next table looking at you, everyone else in the restaurant was a stranger and some of them had insulted you because it looked for a second like you might not share?

[leggo of my ego]

That's All Alone.

Oh well,

Say what time period was the Dennis song recorded?

[Mikie]

All Alone?  Recorded around 1978 for Bambu.  Carli Munoz actually wrote it - Dennis sang it.

[lukpac]

yup there is something fishy in that story. Why would one pay that much for tracks already available. And it is afterall not a rare find from the 60's or 70's but a very modern, uncool CD which was used as an early version of TWOTS, a follow-up to the successful SOS comp but with a rediculous cover and undistinguished  title failed to capture many buyers (I really wonder why they called it TWOTS and gave it that terrible cover rather than bind it closer to SOS - SURFBOARDS VERBOTEN, look at what happened to the dreadful 50BO comp).

There are people that collect promos, and pay a lot for them regardless of if there is unique material on them or not. That seems to be the case here.

[guitarfool2002]

How many other people think this whole saga is absurd bordering on ridiculous? I should have just stayed out of it, but this whole story is too far gone not to add a few thoughts.

It gets into all the angles and legal pitfalls and everything else that pawn shops and resellers deal with on a daily basis.

Look, if someone sells something "by accident", or doesn't know what they had and let it go cheap, or mistakenly sells a family heirloom in a box of junk at a yard sale, or buys something at a yard sale which turns out to have been sold by mistake...who shoulders the responsibility if the original owner(s) wants it back? The buyer fulfilled his/her part of the legal contract by paying for it and taking possession of the item. Done deal, the ownership has been transferred. If the item is on file as having been reported stolen, and the original owner has all the proof that it is the same item stolen from them, then the buyer is obligated by law to return that item to the authorities, who may hold it as evidence for a time if it is part of the case against the person who originally stole it, but they will eventually get it back to the rightful owner.

But in this case...what if the ownership itself can be questioned? Or what if it is an item which like an album can easily be copied? Is someone obligated to now give the "original" back? It would have no value! Much like a stolen bottle of expensive wine...more on that later. Every damned "promo" CD I've ever seen or owned is clearly marked "not for sale", yet we buy them secondhand all the time at various shops and sales. Where does it go from here? Classic example of a law, on the books, that simply does not get enforced, specifically in the music biz unless it's concerning an overly protective or obsessive artist or label interest (like Guns N Roses, Prince, whoever...). Movies are a whole different story...the big studios got sick of every local paper's resident "critic" getting a preview DVD of a blockbuster then giving it out to all their friends. So they cracked down.

An auction sale is a legal transaction...someone sold something sensitive to a buyer and at this point a starting bid in the several hundred dollar range for a test pressing CD of Beach Boys tunes MIGHT JUST HAVE BEEN A HINT that it was more than just a early CD test pressing of BB's tunes...the buyer has the right to do whatever they want with it in private short of breaking existing laws, and I don't see how - if anyone thinks the legality of this extends beyond the sale itself - the blame would go beyond the person who sold it.

But with this involving easily transferable media in a digital age, I'm curious what the ramifications might turn out to be.

That bottle of expensive booze mentioned earlier: Let's say that very bottle had been secretly removed by a staffer from a larger supply, like a case being kept in a private collection by a wealthy individual, then sold privately to someone else. Let's say that new owner pours a round for some close friends, and they all enjoy the expensive drink, and the bottle is emptied. Then the *original* owner who later notices a bottle missing from his case reports it stolen, and someone tracks it down...only to find the now third owner and his friends had already drank and drained the whole bottle. It's a done deal, lesson learned, all of that stuff.

The answer to that original owner would most likely be "tough sh*t", they could probably stand to be more careful when handling such "sensitive" or "valuable" things, and the person who bought it from the person who had no business selling it in the first place got to enjoy a good round of drinks with close friends. As looks like the case with this ersatz Beach Boys disc.  

The wine in the unopened corked bottle is the true collector value of that item...not the bottle, not the wine as poured into a glass. And if what makes that bottle valuable can be easily consumed, like the wine, the original owner is out a bottle of wine, there is nothing to recoup from the guy who bought it and drank it not knowing the origin. Just like the value of, say, a certain legendary unreleased recording lies more in the "unreleased" or legendary status than it does in any way with the media it happens to have been found on.

No point to any of that, just rambling.  

[leggo of my ego]

All Alone?  Recorded around 1978 for Bambu.  Carli Munoz actually wrote it - Dennis sang it.

No, not All Alone - WIBNTLA -- is it possible the BB did it live around the early 70s / Surfs UP period?

(yeah I figured the time frame out by re-reading the thread)

There are a lot of live recordings...out there.

Anyway, I am glad for this thread....digging around has introduced me to a lot of other Dennis tracks am not familiar with - yay!

[HeyJude]

yup there is something fishy in that story. Why would one pay that much for tracks already available. And it is afterall not a rare find from the 60's or 70's but a very modern, uncool CD which was used as an early version of TWOTS, a follow-up to the successful SOS comp but with a rediculous cover and undistinguished  title failed to capture many buyers (I really wonder why they called it TWOTS and gave it that terrible cover rather than bind it closer to SOS - SURFBOARDS VERBOTEN, look at what happened to the dreadful 50BO comp).

There are people that collect promos, and pay a lot for them regardless of if there is unique material on them or not. That seems to be the case here.

I was going to mention the same thing. An in-house Capitol reference disc would carry a pretty good value among collectors. It obviously would normally have a more narrow slice of interested collectors if it didn't have a unique, never-even-booted song on it. But even a standard promo CD sent to radio, reviewers, etc. would carry a potential premium over a standard copy of the CD. If you add in the more unique elements (in-house Capitol item, alternate tracklisting, alternate tracks, documentation showing the vetting process and showing other potential tracks that also got dropped), a few hundred bucks for someone who is really into this stuff is not far-fetched.

I agree it's out of the ordinary for a huge BB fan/collectors to not even know about the song in question, but some very serious fans of bands only pay attention to released material. I've seen it with huge Beatles fans in the past, who were as expert as they come when it came to their released albums, but for whatever reason hadn't heard a note of boots or were interested in unreleased material. I sort of envied them a bit, as the "Anthology" CD's had to have been even more mind-blowing for them! 

[Mikie]

Yes.

[runnersdialzero]

As to calling the new owner names because he won't share with the masses, that's uncalled for.  Think of it this way -- I love fine wines.  If I bought a bottle of 2000 Chateau Lafite Rothschild, I might take it to a nice restaurant to share with a few family members or close friends, but if you were a stranger sitting across the room I probably wouldn't pour you a glass.  The owner is well within his rights to share, or not share, as he pleases.

Totally off with that analogy. This guy basically has infinite bottles of 2000 Chateau Lafite Rothschild. If I had infinite bottles of 2000 Chateau Lafite Rothschild, you bet your tits I'd be sharing with everyone in the restaurant that night.

Even if there was a law against sharing Chateau Lafite Rothschild, the people who enforce the law against sharing Chateau Lafite Rothschild were sat at the next table looking at you, everyone else in the restaurant was a stranger and some of them had insulted you because it looked for a second like you might not share?

If you handle the situation correctly, the people who enforce the law against sharing Chateau Lafite Rothschild wouldn't be in the same restaurant as you and would have zero knowledge of you having said Chateau Lafite Rothschild. You would quietly hand out the Chateau Lafite Rothschild to the complete group of strangers, possibly to one stranger anonymously to hand out to everyone else, and then move along as if nothing had happened.

I've also never heard the Chateau Lafite Rothschild police come after any individual in these particular situations. I've done it about five times in my life with material of the exact same status, I had people behind the scenes e-mail me asking me where I got it, but I was never threatened, simply told to try to be more discrete with sharing next time. This is 2013 and these things happen by the dozen on a daily basis. The worst that I've seen happen are people who work for the wine review company get fired for sharing a bit ahead of schedule, and that doesn't apply here.

[Mikie]

All Alone?  Recorded around 1978 for Bambu.  Carli Munoz actually wrote it - Dennis sang it.

No, not All Alone - WIBNTLA -- is it possible the BB did it live around the early 70s / Surfs UP period?

(yeah I figured the time frame out by re-reading the thread)

There are a lot of live recordings...out there.

Anyway, I am glad for this thread....digging around has introduced me to a lot of other Dennis tracks am not familiar with - yay!

Since it's an outtake from the Surf's Up album, I'd say "Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again" (written by Dennis and Stan Shapiro) was recorded around mid-1971. The Beach Boys never did it live.

[Cabinessenceking]

All Alone?  Recorded around 1978 for Bambu.  Carli Munoz actually wrote it - Dennis sang it.

No, not All Alone - WIBNTLA -- is it possible the BB did it live around the early 70s / Surfs UP period?

(yeah I figured the time frame out by re-reading the thread)

There are a lot of live recordings...out there.

Anyway, I am glad for this thread....digging around has introduced me to a lot of other Dennis tracks am not familiar with - yay!

WIBNTLA, Sound of Free, Follow Me To The Sea, I've Got A Friend, Mona Kani, 10 000 years, Carry Me Home, You Are So Beautiful, All Of My Love and more
+ live songs and proper mixes of songs like San Miguel, Sea Cruise etc and demos such as My Diane and probably many more.

Dennis' legacy has much gold yet to be excavated!

[Mikie]

I agree it's out of the ordinary for a huge BB fan/collectors to not even know about the song in question, but some very serious fans of bands only pay attention to released material. I've seen it with huge Beatles fans in the past, who were as expert as they come when it came to their released albums, but for whatever reason hadn't heard a note of boots or were interested in unreleased material. I sort of envied them a bit, as the "Anthology" CD's had to have been even more mind-blowing for them! 

But 'advanced' collectors and those who couldn't get enough knew about and searched down the boots.  It made this hobby of collecting even more expensive!

[guitarfool2002]

As to calling the new owner names because he won't share with the masses, that's uncalled for.  Think of it this way -- I love fine wines.  If I bought a bottle of 2000 Chateau Lafite Rothschild, I might take it to a nice restaurant to share with a few family members or close friends, but if you were a stranger sitting across the room I probably wouldn't pour you a glass.  The owner is well within his rights to share, or not share, as he pleases.

Totally off with that analogy. This guy basically has infinite bottles of 2000 Chateau Lafite Rothschild. If I had infinite bottles of 2000 Chateau Lafite Rothschild, you bet your tits I'd be sharing with everyone in the restaurant that night.

Even if there was a law against sharing Chateau Lafite Rothschild, the people who enforce the law against sharing Chateau Lafite Rothschild were sat at the next table looking at you, everyone else in the restaurant was a stranger and some of them had insulted you because it looked for a second like you might not share?

If you handle the situation correctly, the people who enforce the law against sharing Chateau Lafite Rothschild wouldn't be in the same restaurant as you and would have zero knowledge of you having said Chateau Lafite Rothschild. You would quietly hand out the Chateau Lafite Rothschild to the complete group of strangers, possibly to one stranger anonymously to hand out to everyone else, and then move along as if nothing had happened.

I've also never heard the Chateau Lafite Rothschild police come after any individual in these particular situations. I've done it about five times in my life with material of the exact same status, I had people behind the scenes e-mail me asking me where I got it, but I was never threatened, simply told to try to be more discrete with sharing next time. This is 2013 and these things happen by the dozen on a daily basis. The worst that I've seen happen are people who work for the wine review company get fired for sharing a bit ahead of schedule, and that doesn't apply here.

Quietly and discrete are the operative words, right?

[the captain]

So to be clear, is one of you going to get me some free wine or not?

[FatherOfTheMan Sr101]

If a man drops a $100 bill on the ground, looks at it twice, and doesn't pick it up, you remind them they dropped it, and could be up $100 and they walk away, would you leave the $100 on the ground?

[guitarfool2002]

I agree it's out of the ordinary for a huge BB fan/collectors to not even know about the song in question, but some very serious fans of bands only pay attention to released material. I've seen it with huge Beatles fans in the past, who were as expert as they come when it came to their released albums, but for whatever reason hadn't heard a note of boots or were interested in unreleased material. I sort of envied them a bit, as the "Anthology" CD's had to have been even more mind-blowing for them! 

But 'advanced' collectors and those who couldn't get enough knew about and searched down the boots.  It made this hobby of collecting even more expensive!

Exactly! Circa 1992: Each "Ultra Rare Trax" or "Unsurpassed Masters" disc was minimum $25, cassette dubs for those on a budget were $10 at record shows. Openly sold, openly advertised in collector mags and 'zines...I can't believe folks claiming to be that serious about the Beatles' recorded legacy wouldn't know about those or at the least be interested enough to ask questions or take a preview listen when they'd be at a record show/shop and see a new Beatles title in the bin alongside all the usual stuff.

[guitarfool2002]

So to be clear, is one of you going to get me some free wine or not?

[hypehat]

If an analogy falls down on a messageboard, does it make a sound?

[guitarfool2002]

If an analogy falls down on a messageboard, does it make a sound?

Probably the same sound as opening the twist-off cap on a bottle of Boone's Farm.