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Author Topic: VDP on Twitter  (Read 37884 times)
♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇
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« Reply #100 on: November 07, 2017, 07:54:15 PM »

Man I don't know. All I know is that Jessie pinkman may be making a visit soon.

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« Reply #101 on: November 07, 2017, 08:36:45 PM »

Finally clicked on this, another poorly named thread (sorry, I write newspaper headlines as a side gig), and once again found myself wondering what I'm missing about VDP.

I tend to create generic thread titles when I don't want to stir the pot. I wasn't sure WHAT to think about Van Dyke's tweet.
My other recent gem, "Interview with Mike," or whatever it was, was so written because I just wanted to post it without judgment. I'm not one to title a thread "Mike: Dennis Wanted to Join the Manson Family."
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♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇
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« Reply #102 on: November 07, 2017, 08:47:03 PM »

Thread title is just fine IMHO
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« Reply #103 on: November 08, 2017, 07:20:00 AM »

Finally clicked on this, another poorly named thread (sorry, I write newspaper headlines as a side gig), and once again found myself wondering what I'm missing about VDP.

I tend to create generic thread titles when I don't want to stir the pot. I wasn't sure WHAT to think about Van Dyke's tweet.
My other recent gem, "Interview with Mike," or whatever it was, was so written because I just wanted to post it without judgment. I'm not one to title a thread "Mike: Dennis Wanted to Join the Manson Family."

Ha! Yes god help us if all thread titles were written like newspaper headlines. I agree - less is more in most cases.

The thread titles that get my goat are the speculative ones about potential archival releases that read like  press releases e.g.

Thread title - Brian Wilson Bedroom Tapes to be released imminently ...

1st post - Does anyone know if there are plans for the Bedroom Tapes to be released imminently or, failing that, ever?

 Wall Wall Wall
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« Reply #104 on: November 08, 2017, 08:04:15 AM »

Ha! Yes god help us if all thread titles were written like newspaper headlines. I agree - less is more in most cases.

I never said I'd write them like headlines, although good headlines do share some qualities that would also benefit thread titles.  In essence, a good headline is one that conveys the gist of a piece in the shortest intelligible string of words. So less is definitely more... unless that less lacks context. "VDP on Twitter" tells me absolutely nothing about the conversation I'm clicking into, and as an editor, this annoys me. No offense.

I don't lose any sleep about Amy B's thread titles, and I don't particularly care if others don't find them annoying. I mentioned it, but in passing.  

My larger point was that I've never understood what the big deal is about VDP, which leads me to wonder what role his contributions really played in Smile's iconic status. I personally think that's overstated. While his lyrics aren't mind-numbingly inane like Mike's, I don't personally value them as absolutely integral to that masterpiece.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2017, 08:18:25 AM by bonnevillemariner » Logged
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« Reply #105 on: November 08, 2017, 10:39:43 AM »

Other than the possibility of not knowing what the VDP initials mean, I'd say "VDP on Twitter" is a reasonably clear thread title. If I click on it, I would expect to see some sort of discussion regarding VDP and his presence on Twitter, which is what this thread is.

The only thread titles that I've seen as a problem here over the years (other than trollish stuff of course) are the truly non-descriptive titles like:

"Check this Out...."

"Something that you might find interesting"

"A new article"

"Some Thoughts...."

Stuff like that. But "VDP on Twitter" is pretty clear. I suppose it doesn't indicate whether it's a discussion of a specific comment on Twitter versus his general presence on Twitter, but ultimately the thread has understandably touched on both.
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♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇
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« Reply #106 on: November 08, 2017, 11:51:06 AM »

Ha! Yes god help us if all thread titles were written like newspaper headlines. I agree - less is more in most cases.

I never said I'd write them like headlines, although good headlines do share some qualities that would also benefit thread titles.  In essence, a good headline is one that conveys the gist of a piece in the shortest intelligible string of words. So less is definitely more... unless that less lacks context. "VDP on Twitter" tells me absolutely nothing about the conversation I'm clicking into, and as an editor, this annoys me. No offense.

I don't lose any sleep about Amy B's thread titles, and I don't particularly care if others don't find them annoying. I mentioned it, but in passing. 

My larger point was that I've never understood what the big deal is about VDP, which leads me to wonder what role his contributions really played in Smile's iconic status. I personally think that's overstated. While his lyrics aren't mind-numbingly inane like Mike's, I don't personally value them as absolutely integral to that masterpiece.

I never understood the big deal either. SMiLE is the exception because although the lyrics make no sense for the most part, they work well when combined with the music. ..I'd actually say they are perfect combined with the music. On their own, though, they are near gibberish but they match he talks,  so there's that!
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« Reply #107 on: November 08, 2017, 03:33:08 PM »

VD is a very advanced musician.  Song Cycle and much of his catalog likely sails over the heads of many BW fans....As Bri himself stated, "I have met my match in this music man".
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SMiLE Brian
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« Reply #108 on: November 08, 2017, 03:45:07 PM »

Get lost.... Angry
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« Reply #109 on: November 08, 2017, 04:05:17 PM »

Things that I don't understand...
  - how does a jet that weights half a million pounds actually fly
  - what do VDP's lyrics mean
  - how can anyone prefer Mike Love to Brian Wilson
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« Reply #110 on: November 08, 2017, 04:42:41 PM »

I never said I'd write them like headlines, although good headlines do share some qualities that would also benefit thread titles.  In essence, a good headline is one that conveys the gist of a piece in the shortest intelligible string of words. So less is definitely more... unless that less lacks context. "VDP on Twitter" tells me absolutely nothing about the conversation I'm clicking into, and as an editor, this annoys me. No offense.

I don't lose any sleep about Amy B's thread titles, and I don't particularly care if others don't find them annoying. I mentioned it, but in passing.  

I'm a writer and editor too. I guess i just have a different perspective. Out of curiosity, what would you call this thread?
Anyway, it's not a big deal. You clicked on it, so it worked.  Grin
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« Reply #111 on: November 08, 2017, 05:37:40 PM »

Song Cycle and much of his catalog likely sails over the heads of many BW fans....

Why? Are you saying BW fans are stupid?

Enough is enough with this troll.

Indefinite suspension until I talk to GF and sees what he wants to do and if he's with me on this.

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SMiLE Brian
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« Reply #112 on: November 08, 2017, 05:41:07 PM »

Billy! Cool
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« Reply #113 on: November 08, 2017, 05:50:01 PM »

Yeah, I figured a visit from Jesse Pinkman was in order LOL
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« Reply #114 on: November 08, 2017, 06:19:56 PM »

Fear to stop kicking ass! LOL
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« Reply #115 on: November 08, 2017, 07:37:10 PM »

Song Cycle and much of his catalog likely sails over the heads of many BW fans....

Why? Are you saying BW fans are stupid?

Enough is enough with this troll.

Indefinite suspension until I talk to GF and sees what he wants to do and if he's with me on this.



I support Billy 100%.
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« Reply #116 on: November 09, 2017, 01:55:41 AM »

I never said I'd write them like headlines, although good headlines do share some qualities that would also benefit thread titles.  In essence, a good headline is one that conveys the gist of a piece in the shortest intelligible string of words. So less is definitely more... unless that less lacks context. "VDP on Twitter" tells me absolutely nothing about the conversation I'm clicking into, and as an editor, this annoys me. No offense.

I don't lose any sleep about Amy B's thread titles, and I don't particularly care if others don't find them annoying. I mentioned it, but in passing.  

I'm a writer and editor too. I guess i just have a different perspective. Out of curiosity, what would you call this thread?
Anyway, it's not a big deal. You clicked on it, so it worked.  Grin


I too would be interested to read what he comes up with that would improve the thread title. "VDP's recent controversial tweets" perhaps? But it still sheds little light on the specific nature of the tweets. However, any more detail and you're effectively putting the whole first post within the thread title.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2017, 03:18:52 AM by buddhahat » Logged

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« Reply #117 on: November 09, 2017, 02:33:54 AM »

Back on topic - It worries me how some of the protagonists in BB history can so quickly be demonised here.

It seems if you have anything negative to say about a cherished key player (Brian, Dennis, Carl etc.) then attitudes towards you shift very quickly.

VDP expresses some bitterness/frustration towards Brian & his team. Rather than focusing on what the causes behind this change of attitude might be, many here now seem to be rubbishing his creative output and name-calling. We saw something very similar in the Loren Daro thread. Daro criticised Marilyn and was subsequently hounded off the board thereby minimising opportunities to hear his anecdotes and opinions about a key period in BB history.

As a reaction to the events I think it's unhealthy to write those off that criticise Brian - In a bizarre twist VDP is now seemingly being consigned to the Villains bin along with Mike Love, Daro, Landy et al!

An unlikely scenario, granted, but let's imagine that as VDP grows older, with his apparent shift in attitude towards BW and a desire to 'set the record straight' he might be more open to discussing Smile as honestly as possible. 10 years ago this would have been the perfect forum for him to open up as an 'honoured guest' but no chance now (and certainly not if his recollections cast Brian in a bad light). So we foster an environment with an aggressive pro Brian (Carl, Dennis) bias that closes doors to information rather than opens them.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2017, 03:47:45 AM by buddhahat » Logged

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« Reply #118 on: November 09, 2017, 06:03:07 AM »

A Van Dyke Parks memoir would be a fascinating read, and not only for his perspective on the Smile experience. I bet he has some stories to tell.
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« Reply #119 on: November 09, 2017, 07:30:46 AM »

A songwriters symposium with both of them would be great as well.
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« Reply #120 on: November 09, 2017, 08:34:51 AM »

Back on topic - It worries me how some of the protagonists in BB history can so quickly be demonised here.

It seems if you have anything negative to say about a cherished key player (Brian, Dennis, Carl etc.) then attitudes towards you shift very quickly.

VDP expresses some bitterness/frustration towards Brian & his team. Rather than focusing on what the causes behind this change of attitude might be, many here now seem to be rubbishing his creative output and name-calling.


Again - no way this change in VDP's behavior came outta nowhere. That stuff never does. I seem to recall grumblings around the time of The Smile Sessions' release in 2011 that something bad had recently went down behind the scenes causing the fallout, but no details were ever public. No accident that VDP was involved in BWPS, but not in TSS. I'm guessing it has to do with royalties/money, but maybe it's more than that.

I think anyone who is pissed (and rightfully so) at VDP's undeniably childish tweets against Brian should at least acknowledge that whatever went down must have been pretty bad, at least in VDP's eyes, in order to get him to the emotionally-charged/lashing-out point he's at these days.

However, I will say that I cannot imagine anything that he feels shortchanged on is deserving of acting out in the way that he's publicly doing. I won't condone it, but we must know what happened (even if we probably never will) if we are to fully understand why things are the way they are.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2017, 09:42:08 AM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #121 on: November 09, 2017, 08:50:44 AM »

I sometimes suspect that there might be a Salieri/Mozart dynamic at play. Parks is smarter than Brian, more versatile,. more technically accomplished, yet Brian is the genius.
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« Reply #122 on: November 09, 2017, 08:59:03 AM »

Van Dyke's feelings and experiences are shared by others who have worked with BW. They haven't necessarily publicized them as widely as Mr. Parks, but that doesn't make those feelings and experiences less real. An insider once told me that a "black cloud" seemed to follow Brian's collaborators.
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« Reply #123 on: November 09, 2017, 09:41:44 AM »

Van Dyke's feelings and experiences are shared by others who have worked with BW. They haven't necessarily shared them as widely as Mr. Parks, but that doesn't make them less real. An insider once told me that a "black cloud" seemed to follow Brian's collaborators.

Exactly, and I also have little doubt that all of the BBs individually and collectively have left various people over the years as disgruntled (or insert some other similar term), and some of those people have been more justified in feeling that way than others.

This dynamic even exists *within* the band; I think some of the feelings VDP may have towards Brian were shared by at least some of the other BBs at various points over the years.

As is the case with the BBs, you can look at VDP's role in working with Brian either way. Is he someone who contributed a great deal who has seen far less fame and fortune than Brian as a result of "Smile?" Or is he someone who nobody outside of the most inner circles of the industry would ever have heard of had it not been for his "Smile" association? It's of course both, right?

Look at someone like Mike Love, who has reaped *far* more rewards (fame and fortune, etc.) than any of the other collaborators and even any of the other Beach Boys outside of Brian, yet even *he* comes across as disenfranchised and disgruntled.

I think there's no question that some people who have come into Brian/the BBs orbit have been worse for the wear and have some valid complaints/frustrations, etc.

Where *some* of these people make a mistake is to assume that if they've been "cut off" from working with Brian or talking to him, or if for some reason Brian present-day doesn't meet up to their arbitrary standards or doesn't seem like he "used to be in the olden days", it *must* be because of some external factor other than Brian. Look back that "A&E Biography* back around 2000 or so. Who was it, I think it was Ginger Blake who seem to think some truly nefarious is the cause of why Brian "isn't the same", as opposed to the obvious (drugs, mental illness, Landy, simple aging, etc.). Similarly, Mike Love doesn't want to admit *Brian* doesn't want to work with him or go to his birthday parties or whatever, so he blames others.

If anything, I think VDP has at least *sometimes* directly blamed Brian for whatever issues he has with Brian instead of *always* blaming someone else around Brian.
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« Reply #124 on: November 09, 2017, 09:52:21 AM »

Van Dyke's feelings and experiences are shared by others who have worked with BW. They haven't necessarily shared them as widely as Mr. Parks, but that doesn't make them less real. An insider once told me that a "black cloud" seemed to follow Brian's collaborators.

Exactly, and I also have little doubt that all of the BBs individually and collectively have left various people over the years as disgruntled (or insert some other similar term), and some of those people have been more justified in feeling that way than others.

This dynamic even exists *within* the band; I think some of the feelings VDP may have towards Brian were shared by at least some of the other BBs at various points over the years.

As is the case with the BBs, you can look at VDP's role in working with Brian either way. Is he someone who contributed a great deal who has seen far less fame and fortune than Brian as a result of "Smile?" Or is he someone who nobody outside of the most inner circles of the industry would ever have heard of had it not been for his "Smile" association? It's of course both, right?

Look at someone like Mike Love, who has reaped *far* more rewards (fame and fortune, etc.) than any of the other collaborators and even any of the other Beach Boys outside of Brian, yet even *he* comes across as disenfranchised and disgruntled.

I think there's no question that some people who have come into Brian/the BBs orbit have been worse for the wear and have some valid complaints/frustrations, etc.

Where *some* of these people make a mistake is to assume that if they've been "cut off" from working with Brian or talking to him, or if for some reason Brian present-day doesn't meet up to their arbitrary standards or doesn't seem like he "used to be in the olden days", it *must* be because of some external factor other than Brian. Look back that "A&E Biography* back around 2000 or so. Who was it, I think it was Ginger Blake who seem to think some truly nefarious is the cause of why Brian "isn't the same", as opposed to the obvious (drugs, mental illness, Landy, simple aging, etc.). Similarly, Mike Love doesn't want to admit *Brian* doesn't want to work with him or go to his birthday parties or whatever, so he blames others.

If anything, I think VDP has at least *sometimes* directly blamed Brian for whatever issues he has with Brian instead of *always* blaming someone else around Brian.

I'm guessing VDP doesn't have all that much money in the bank (again, unlike the very wealthy Mike), which has to suck for someone associated so deeply with such an esteemed project (one that many scholars say rivals Sgt Pepper as the most groundbreaking work of the 1960s)... and VDP perhaps believes that the Legend of Brian Wilson is due in no small part to SMiLE, in which case I'd say he's not all that offbase.

Of course that album is just a drop in the bucket of all of Brian's amazing contributions to music, but SMiLE is what got MANY people hooked and fascinated with Brian in particular, and helped mythologize him greatly. If Van is having money troubles and feels recently (as of 2011?) cheated or disrespected in some way, I can certainly understand resentment.

It's odd how Twitter in the 2010s has become this faucet for disgruntled men born in the 1940s with (presumably) widely differing political/overall views who repeatedly run their mouths, both acting like children rather than adults. It's really a bizarre, yet perhaps understandable phenomenon, since it's such an easy/low effort way to vent to the masses and be a smart alec if one wishes to be one.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2017, 09:53:40 AM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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