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Author Topic: VDP on Twitter  (Read 7709 times)
HeyJude
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« Reply #125 on: November 09, 2017, 09:54:21 AM »

There are far worse stories than VDP's. Do we all remember the Bob Burchman story?

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,14995.msg344233.html#msg344233

I surmise something similar happened when Ed Carter had "Surfer Suzie" ready for the KTSA album. I'm not suggesting these songs, these one-shot compositions, match up to VDP's excellent work on "Smile", but as VDP himself seems to hone in quite often on the financial/business side of things in his complaints, it appears he could have ended up in a far worse position than he ended up with.
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« Reply #126 on: November 09, 2017, 10:00:46 AM »

I'm guessing VDP doesn't have all that much money in the bank (again, unlike the very wealthy Mike), which has to suck for someone associated so deeply with such an esteemed project (one that many scholars say rivals Sgt Pepper as the most groundbreaking work of the 1960s)... and VDP perhaps believes that the Legend of Brian Wilson is due in no small part to SMiLE, in which case I'd say he's not all that offbase.

Of course that album is just a drop in the bucket of all of Brian's amazing contributions to music, but SMiLE is what got MANY people hooked and fascinated with Brian in particular, and helped mythologize him greatly. If Van is having money troubles and feels recently (as of 2011?) cheated or disrespected in some way, I can certainly understand resentment.

It's odd how Twitter in the 2010s has become this faucet for disgruntled men born in the 1940s with (presumably) widely differing political/overall views who repeatedly run their mouths, both acting like children rather than adults. It's really a bizarre, yet perhaps understandable phenomenon, since it's such an easy/low effort way to vent to the masses and be a smart alec if one wishes to be one.

There are certainly some folks who come across uniformly well in actual interviews, who inexplicably come across quite poorly on Twitter.

VDP can recount stories quite entertainingly and be quite funny. His "Summer in Paradise" story about sharing the airplane with Mike and getting stiffed, etc. is still a favorite. Imagine if, instead of being a great raconteur in telling that story many years ago, he instead posted a one line snark about it on Twitter. 

I dunno, sometimes when these guys who did great work with famous/rich people years ago find themselves in financial straits, a call to their former associate might help. Not always, but sometimes. Even the *notoriously* stingy Paul McCartney reportedly had his people "go back through the books" and "found" some money to send drummer Denny Seiwell. I would imagine that had partly to do with Seiwell generally speaking fondly of McCartney over the years.
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CenturyDeprived
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« Reply #127 on: November 09, 2017, 10:04:18 AM »

There are far worse stories than VDP's. Do we all remember the Bob Burchman story?

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,14995.msg344233.html#msg344233

I surmise something similar happened when Ed Carter had "Surfer Suzie" ready for the KTSA album. I'm not suggesting these songs, these one-shot compositions, match up to VDP's excellent work on "Smile", but as VDP himself seems to hone in quite often on the financial/business side of things in his complaints, it appears he could have ended up in a far worse position than he ended up with.

Yep, I remember reading that before. That is a gnarly story.

Didn't Brian originally agree to go 50/50 with Van on everything way back when they first started collaborating in '66? I might be misremembering, but I seem to recall Brian was particularly generous and tried to be very fair with everything in terms of his and Van's collabs. This might not have been a formal agreement though. So yeah, if Van eventually 45 years later got far less than what he had expected from their original handshake (?) deal, I would not fault Van for being pissed. Only for how he goes about expressing it.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2017, 10:15:37 AM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #128 on: November 09, 2017, 10:33:07 AM »

There are far worse stories than VDP's. Do we all remember the Bob Burchman story?

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,14995.msg344233.html#msg344233

Thanks for the refresher!

just an aside...

Didn't Brian originally agree to go 50/50 with Van on everything way back when they first started collaborating in '66? I might be misremembering, but I seem to recall Brian was particularly generous and tried to be very fair with everything in terms of his and Van's collabs.

If true, Mike must have loved that  Grin
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CenturyDeprived
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« Reply #129 on: November 09, 2017, 10:53:15 AM »

There are far worse stories than VDP's. Do we all remember the Bob Burchman story?

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,14995.msg344233.html#msg344233

Thanks for the refresher!

just an aside...

Didn't Brian originally agree to go 50/50 with Van on everything way back when they first started collaborating in '66? I might be misremembering, but I seem to recall Brian was particularly generous and tried to be very fair with everything in terms of his and Van's collabs.

If true, Mike must have loved that  Grin

I'm sure it must've pissed Mike off royally, but again I don't think these discrepancies are necessarily simply random occurrences. Maybe I'm wrong, but I've hypothesized that Brian may have been resentful of Mike's ongoing pushiness, and perhaps as a result wasn't especially motivated to be as generous with Mike as he was with Van; Van, being someone who Brian obviously really wanted to work with, and someone who Brian correctly predicted would be a person who would be important to his career and evolving image/creativity, plus someone who was short on coin, appeared to be the fortunate recipient of Brian's generosity at the time.
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« Reply #130 on: November 09, 2017, 10:57:17 AM »

This is also, of course, not unique to Brian. I'm sure Denny Laine had some choice words for a certain ex-Beatle at times.
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« Reply #131 on: November 09, 2017, 11:04:54 AM »

This is also, of course, not unique to Brian. I'm sure Denny Laine had some choice words for a certain ex-Beatle at times.

There are quite a few musicians who've played with Ozzy Osbourne over the years who said they weren't given proper songwriting credit on some of his biggest hits.  When Bob Daisley and Lee Kerslake tried to sue to get somewriting credits on the massively successful Blizzard of Ozz and Diary of a Madman albums, Sharon Osbourne responded by reissuing those albums with their bass and drum tracks replaced. 
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« Reply #132 on: November 09, 2017, 11:14:52 AM »

This is also, of course, not unique to Brian. I'm sure Denny Laine had some choice words for a certain ex-Beatle at times.

And surely one of the reasons he's been pretty much frozen out of McCartney's life since 1981/82. Going to the tabloids with unflattering stories in the 80s probably sealed the deal.

And even something like Laine's position with McCartney is open to interpretation. How much did he add? How much was McCartney dragging him along? Was keeping him on for awhile after Wings was disbanded a case of doing him a favor? Or was his "Office Space-esque" firing/phasing out during "Tug of War" kind of a mean thing to do? Open to interpretation.

Are years of service as important as artistic input? VDP's work on "Smile" is probably more substantial than any one thing Denny Laine did with Wings, but Laine also spent ten years with McCartney and was then cast aside, while VDP's time with Brian was much more short-term.

One has to guess VDP knew, even if "Smile" was going to be completed, that it might be a "one and done" situation, as he had to know that Tony Asher was his predecessor.
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« Reply #133 on: November 09, 2017, 11:32:31 AM »

I can't find the quote now, but I remember a interview where Van Dyke expressed dissapointment over Brian's return to the Beach Boys for the 50th anniversary. I follow him on Twitter and he replied to me a few times, even RTed me. Yet I find some of his comments about Brian puzzling. I''ve been thinking about asking him directly about this issue. Which, of course, does not guarantee a non-oblique answer...

BTW, I think that he's a genius too (VDP, not Murry Wilson), and even without Smile he'd still be a cult artist. Of course, you have to wonder if he would have had the chance to land a record contract without the Smile prestige.
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« Reply #134 on: November 09, 2017, 11:38:07 AM »



One has to guess VDP knew, even if "Smile" was going to be completed, that it might be a "one and done" situation, as he had to know that Tony Asher was his predecessor.

Not so sure that's the case; had SMiLE come out, it could have (subject to speculation/interpretation, of course) drastically changed the course of things with this band. I think it was far more of a leap into uncharted territory than any other album the band had released.

Unlike, say, Pet Sounds, which wasn't quite a huge success/game changer for the band as much as SMiLE could potentially have been. Had SMiLE been released, and critics finally started talking about how The Beach Boys' lyrics/content had matured and caught up with the maturity of the backing tracks, this could have further marginalized Mike, and emboldened Brian to continue working on more songs with Van, post-SMiLE. But only with a seismic shift in band power dynamics, which I contend could possibly have been possible had the album been finished.

Or not. Obviously Van witnessed some immense family toxicity around Brian, and wanted out of that situation. But I feel that a completed and positively-received SMiLE could have led to the band being taken far more seriously by the cool kids/reviewers, and Brian's choice of his next collaborator(s) would quite possibly have been affected by this. I think that more Van collabs on the next project(s) could have happened, but only if the album sold, and only if Brian using collaborators other than Mike Love was made a big, positive deal of, by influential publications.

I'm surprised Mike didn't bootleg audio record Brian's promise that Mike would get to be the main collaborator on the next album, and/or get it in writing, notarized even. I guess he knew his guilt trips could eventually do the trick without these other methods.
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« Reply #135 on: November 09, 2017, 11:39:50 AM »

I can't find the quote now, but I remember a interview where Van Dyke expressed dissapointment over Brian's return to the Beach Boys for the 50th anniversary. I follow him on Twitter and he replied to me a few times, even RTed me. Yet I find some of his comments about Brian puzzling. I''ve been thinking about asking him directly about this issue. Which, of course, does not guarantee a non-oblique answer...

BTW, I think that he's a genius too (VDP, not Murry Wilson), and even without Smile he'd still be a cult artist. Of course, you have to wonder if he would have had the chance to land a record contract without the Smile prestige.

Your question in bold answered by Van Dyke himself in bold:

For the record. And proceed accordingly. Van Dyke in his own words. Relevant quote in bold.

Source:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/23/arts/music/smile-and-other-difficulties.html

Quote:
Q. At the time you made “Song Cycle,” were you already working at Warner Brothers as a producer?

A. Well, Warner hired me because they thought I was a “solution,” in a bifurcated way — first of all, as a musician who had enormous studio experience. When I went into the music business, in 1963, my first union job was as an arranger on “The Bare Necessities,” for Disney. I soon became adjunctive to other people’s search for fame and fortune. Also, by 1967 I had been through eight months of Beach Boys experience — or Brian Wilson, really, with one short conversation with one or two of the other Beach Boys. I left that job in the shambles that became so famous. It became a pioneering event for interactive record design.

Q. Are you referring to the fact that fans, using bootlegged outtakes, have been assembling their own reconstructions of “Smile” for the last few decades?

A. Yes, bootleggery. My opportunity at Warner Brothers came specifically from the fact that I had worked with Brian Wilson, and carried what they might have thought was a Rosetta stone to Brian’s thinking. I don’t think it’s sinister to suspect that they wanted to learn what Brian Wilson knew, because he was the most powerful commercial success as a singer and songwriter in the industry then.

Q. What was the label’s reaction when you brought them “Song Cycle?”

A. When I played the album for Joe Smith, the president of the label, there was a stunned silence. Joe looked up and said, “Song Cycle”? I said, “Yes,” and he said, “So, where are the songs?” And I knew that was the beginning of the end. Warner held the album for a year. Then I met Jac Holzman [who ran Elektra Records], and after he listened to it, he went to Warner Brothers and said, “If you folks aren’t going to release this album, I will — how much do you want for it?” So they decided to put it out, grudgingly.
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« Reply #136 on: November 09, 2017, 11:48:29 AM »

Back on topic - It worries me how some of the protagonists in BB history can so quickly be demonised here.

It seems if you have anything negative to say about a cherished key player (Brian, Dennis, Carl etc.) then attitudes towards you shift very quickly.

VDP expresses some bitterness/frustration towards Brian & his team. Rather than focusing on what the causes behind this change of attitude might be, many here now seem to be rubbishing his creative output and name-calling.

For what it's worth, I thought VDP was overrated long before he criticized Brian.
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« Reply #137 on: November 09, 2017, 11:51:58 AM »

I'd wager that VDP is like many artists; he's capable of some good stuff and some dreck. "The Waltz", or "Walk With You" are pretty "meh" (at best), yet I think the *songs* on "Orange Crate Art" are almost uniformly quite good. The lyrics I have mixed feelings about. But even if that genre/style isn't one's precise cup of tea, I can't deny that especially in subsequent years that not only Brian's great vocal work but also VDP's *songs* from OCA have grown on me.
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« Reply #138 on: November 09, 2017, 12:02:46 PM »



One has to guess VDP knew, even if "Smile" was going to be completed, that it might be a "one and done" situation, as he had to know that Tony Asher was his predecessor.

Not so sure that's the case; had SMiLE come out, it could have (subject to speculation/interpretation, of course) drastically changed the course of things with this band. I think it was far more of a leap into uncharted territory than any other album the band had released.

Unlike, say, Pet Sounds, which wasn't quite a huge success/game changer for the band as much as SMiLE could potentially have been. Had SMiLE been released, and critics finally started talking about how The Beach Boys' lyrics/content had matured and caught up with the maturity of the backing tracks, this could have further marginalized Mike, and emboldened Brian to continue working on more songs with Van, post-SMiLE. But only with a seismic shift in band power dynamics, which I contend could possibly have been possible had the album been finished.

Or not. Obviously Van witnessed some immense family toxicity around Brian, and wanted out of that situation. But I feel that a completed and positively-received SMiLE could have led to the band being taken far more seriously by the cool kids/reviewers, and Brian's choice of his next collaborator(s) would quite possibly have been affected by this. I think that more Van collabs on the next project(s) could have happened, but only if the album sold, and only if Brian using collaborators other than Mike Love was made a big, positive deal of, by influential publications.

I'm surprised Mike didn't bootleg audio record Brian's promise that Mike would get to be the main collaborator on the next album, and/or get it in writing, notarized even. I guess he knew his guilt trips could eventually do the trick without these other methods.

It's definitely impossible to know what could have happened with future work with VDP had "Smile" been released. I think the seeming semi-conventional wisdom that "Smile" would have been successful had it been released may be incorrect. I don't think it would have bettered "Pet Sounds" on the charts, and I don't think even among snooty, progressive rock critics of the time it would have been framed as being as good or better than Pepper. So I'm not sure how much even Brian would have motivated to continue on with VDP.

I love "Smile" of course, but even *I*, in some alternate universe where "Smile" was released, can't fathom wanting *all* of the BBs subsequent albums for the next few years to be filled to the brim with VDP lyrics.

But I think the thing with working exclusively with an outside writer wouldn't have worked with the band long-term. Mike was clearly not super happy about these outside collaborators (and has, to his credit, said so to some degree in certain terms in interviews years later). While Howie Edelson was able to ask Mike directly while working "Sunshine Tomorrow" if the "Wild Honey" songwriting situation (meaning a lot of Mike/Brian songs) was some sort of quid-pro-quo in exchange for Mike getting shafted in the past (Mike's answer was emphatically no), the fact that Brian got back with Mike couldn't have done anything but at least help in some small way at least *that* particular point of conflict within the band.

But I also think the band, both in practice in terms of what they did, and what they *should have* or *could have* done had they had even stronger commercial instincts for success, was headed down the better path in terms of not having an "outside" guy write all of their lyrics.

Part of the reason, and I'm cribbing no doubt from some old discussions here with Howie regarding Pepper/Smile, that stuff like Lennon's lyrics were hitting that pop culture critical mass was because they were *his* words. The Beatles' lyrics were *theirs.*

Apologies for the digression. In short, at the very least VDP had to know one strong *possibility* in working on "Smile" was that, success or no success, he might not be working on their *next* album.
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« Reply #139 on: November 09, 2017, 12:32:41 PM »

I can't find the quote now, but I remember a interview where Van Dyke expressed dissapointment over Brian's return to the Beach Boys for the 50th anniversary. I follow him on Twitter and he replied to me a few times, even RTed me. Yet I find some of his comments about Brian puzzling. I''ve been thinking about asking him directly about this issue. Which, of course, does not guarantee a non-oblique answer...

BTW, I think that he's a genius too (VDP, not Murry Wilson), and even without Smile he'd still be a cult artist. Of course, you have to wonder if he would have had the chance to land a record contract without the Smile prestige.

Your question in bold answered by Van Dyke himself in bold:

For the record. And proceed accordingly. Van Dyke in his own words. Relevant quote in bold.

Source:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/23/arts/music/smile-and-other-difficulties.html

Quote:
Q. At the time you made “Song Cycle,” were you already working at Warner Brothers as a producer?

A. Well, Warner hired me because they thought I was a “solution,” in a bifurcated way — first of all, as a musician who had enormous studio experience. When I went into the music business, in 1963, my first union job was as an arranger on “The Bare Necessities,” for Disney. I soon became adjunctive to other people’s search for fame and fortune. Also, by 1967 I had been through eight months of Beach Boys experience — or Brian Wilson, really, with one short conversation with one or two of the other Beach Boys. I left that job in the shambles that became so famous. It became a pioneering event for interactive record design.

Q. Are you referring to the fact that fans, using bootlegged outtakes, have been assembling their own reconstructions of “Smile” for the last few decades?

A. Yes, bootleggery. My opportunity at Warner Brothers came specifically from the fact that I had worked with Brian Wilson, and carried what they might have thought was a Rosetta stone to Brian’s thinking. I don’t think it’s sinister to suspect that they wanted to learn what Brian Wilson knew, because he was the most powerful commercial success as a singer and songwriter in the industry then.

Q. What was the label’s reaction when you brought them “Song Cycle?”

A. When I played the album for Joe Smith, the president of the label, there was a stunned silence. Joe looked up and said, “Song Cycle”? I said, “Yes,” and he said, “So, where are the songs?” And I knew that was the beginning of the end. Warner held the album for a year. Then I met Jac Holzman [who ran Elektra Records], and after he listened to it, he went to Warner Brothers and said, “If you folks aren’t going to release this album, I will — how much do you want for it?” So they decided to put it out, grudgingly.


Yes, I'm familiar with that interview. Of course VDP got the Song Cycle contract because of Smile. But I was wondering if, in a Smile-less scenario, he would have been able to get a chance at an album, sooner or later. Lots of people inside the LA/San Francisco scene landed record contracts, perhaps VDP would have been signed by another label in 69, who knows? Anyway, I think VDP payed his dues with Brian through the years: his role in Reprise, then SOS, OCA...
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« Reply #140 on: November 09, 2017, 12:44:15 PM »

I wonder if VDP's attitude towards Brian these days goes back to OCA? I recall an interview where VDP talked about touring with BW in support of the album. Is Van Dyke bitter because that didn't happen?
Denny Laine made the mistake of talking to a writer back in the 80's sort of "off the record", and then those stories ended up in the tabloids. Denny never has an unkind word for McCartney these days, but it seems it is too little, too late. Macca seems to be in touch with other ex-Wings like Denny Seiwell, but Laine is like...well, it's like he never existed.
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« Reply #141 on: November 09, 2017, 12:48:03 PM »

Van Dyke's feelings and experiences are shared by others who have worked with BW. They haven't necessarily shared publicized them as widely as Mr. Parks, but that doesn't make those feelings and experiences less real. An insider once told me that a "black cloud" seemed to follow Brian's collaborators.

Oddly, Tony Asher seems to one of those who remain positive about his experience working with Brian and the Beach Boys, unless I'm missing something. He worked on a one-off project that turned out to be enormously revered, and yet aside from major BBs fans, I'll bet a lot of people who sing along to God Only Knows have no idea who wrote those lyrics. And I assume (big assumption) that he had the same deal with Brian with regards to royalties as VDP had, given that one project came after the other. Yet, aside from expressing mild annoyance that his GV lyrics were replaced, and that Mike eventually got partial credit for WIBN (and swearing Mike had nothing to do with it), Asher seems to view his experience with fondness. I wonder if that's because he had a regular job for years (instead of being a freelance musician trying to make ends meet). Or it could just that he and VDP have different personalities, and he's less sensitive.

By the way, I thought VPD marveled that Brian wanted to go 50/50 on songwriting credits. Wouldn't that mean that VDP collects half the songwriting royalties for every recording of a song or songs from Smile? Or might the terms have been changed by the time he signed the agreement?
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« Reply #142 on: November 09, 2017, 12:49:10 PM »

Back on topic - It worries me how some of the protagonists in BB history can so quickly be demonised here.

It seems if you have anything negative to say about a cherished key player (Brian, Dennis, Carl etc.) then attitudes towards you shift very quickly.

VDP expresses some bitterness/frustration towards Brian & his team. Rather than focusing on what the causes behind this change of attitude might be, many here now seem to be rubbishing his creative output and name-calling.

For what it's worth, I thought VDP was overrated long before he criticized Brian.

Me too.

He might have taken a swipe at me because I had admitted here I wasn't crazy about Song Cycle.  Hell it was my opinion.
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« Reply #143 on: November 09, 2017, 12:50:36 PM »

I wonder if VDP's attitude towards Brian these days goes back to OCA? I recall an interview where VDP talked about touring with BW in support of the album. Is Van Dyke bitter because that didn't happen?

He seemed fine with Brian in 2004, when BWPS came out, and he worked on TLOS too. I share others' suspicions that his current gripe is related to the Smile Sessions. He didn't write any of the liner notes. Perhaps he wasn't asked?
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« Reply #144 on: November 09, 2017, 12:51:28 PM »

I wonder if VDP's attitude towards Brian these days goes back to OCA? I recall an interview where VDP talked about touring with BW in support of the album. Is Van Dyke bitter because that didn't happen?
Denny Laine made the mistake of talking to a writer back in the 80's sort of "off the record", and then those stories ended up in the tabloids. Denny never has an unkind word for McCartney these days, but it seems it is too little, too late. Macca seems to be in touch with other ex-Wings like Denny Seiwell, but Laine is like...well, it's like he never existed.

It seems Laine and McCartney aren't 100% estranged. There's a pic of them together (presumably they just ran into each other rather than going together) backstage around 2007 at a UB40 concert. Laine also mentioned shooting McCartney some emails about doing a Cirque sort of thing for Wings music. But I think he mostly got the blow-off.

Similar to Seiwell, McCartney is on relatively friendly terms with people like Laurence Juber who have remained largely positive about McCartney post-Wings. (I think Juber was heard to criticize, and right so, the "Wingspan" documentary and called it "Paul McCartneyspan" or something like that).

As for VDP, he remained on good terms with Brian through the 2000 Pet Sounds "Symphonic Suite" and of course the 2003/2004 "Smile" project. Not sure what happened after that. I don't think anything to do with OCA is a major factor in VDP being disgruntled.

Somewhat like Mike, VDP's gripes sometimes seem to be a case of (seemingly) arbitrarily getting angry again about something that happened (or something to do with something that happened) many years ago.
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« Reply #145 on: November 09, 2017, 12:54:51 PM »

Van Dyke's feelings and experiences are shared by others who have worked with BW. They haven't necessarily shared publicized them as widely as Mr. Parks, but that doesn't make those feelings and experiences less real. An insider once told me that a "black cloud" seemed to follow Brian's collaborators.

Oddly, Tony Asher seems to one of those who remain positive about his experience working with Brian and the Beach Boys, unless I'm missing something. He worked on a one-off project that turned out to be enormously revered, and yet aside from major BBs fans, I'll bet a lot of people who sing along to God Only Knows have no idea who wrote those lyrics. And I assume (big assumption) that he had the same deal with Brian with regards to royalties as VDP had, given that one project came after the other. Yet, aside from expressing mild annoyance that his GV lyrics were replaced, and that Mike eventually got partial credit for WIBN (and swearing Mike had nothing to do with it), Asher seems to view his experience with fondness. I wonder if that's because he had a regular job for years (instead of being a freelance musician trying to make ends meet). Or it could just that he and VDP have different personalities, and he's less sensitive.

By the way, I thought VPD marveled that Brian wanted to go 50/50 on songwriting credits. Wouldn't that mean that VDP collects half the songwriting royalties for every recording of a song or songs from Smile? Or might the terms have been changed by the time he signed the agreement?

I think even Asher had a few ups and downs regarding his feelings about Brian. Isn't Asher's (presumably more than just apocryphal) quote about Brian something like calling Brian "A genius musician but an amateur human being."
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« Reply #146 on: November 09, 2017, 08:15:28 PM »

He worked on a one-off project that turned out to be enormously revered, and yet aside from major BBs fans, I'll bet a lot of people who sing along to God Only Knows have no idea who wrote those lyrics.

Nor do many of us care who wrote them. As I said before in this thread, IF I notice lyrics, it's the last thing I notice and the last thing I value in a song.  Perhaps that's because I've tried and failed several times to compose and arrange music, and therefore respect that craft-- arguably more than the craft (writing) that pays my bills. To come up with a melody, a harmony, the chords, instrumentation... then sing it all so beautifully? That's work. THAT's the genius.

Lyrics are like barbecue sauce on a good brisket. If the brisket's done right, the sauce is but an afterthought-- a nice little bonus. Nice but not necessarily needed. I think my 4 year old could write serviceable lyrics for a BW hit.
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« Reply #147 on: November 09, 2017, 09:35:05 PM »

Now I want brisket.  Dammit lol
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« Reply #148 on: November 09, 2017, 09:59:45 PM »

Back on topic - It worries me how some of the protagonists in BB history can so quickly be demonised here.

It seems if you have anything negative to say about a cherished key player (Brian, Dennis, Carl etc.) then attitudes towards you shift very quickly.

VDP expresses some bitterness/frustration towards Brian & his team. Rather than focusing on what the causes behind this change of attitude might be, many here now seem to be rubbishing his creative output and name-calling.

For what it's worth, I thought VDP was overrated long before he criticized Brian.

Me too.

He might have taken a swipe at me because I had admitted here I wasn't crazy about Song Cycle.  Hell it was my opinion.
I think there's a saying that goes something like "You're allowed to have an opinion, as long as it's mine".
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« Reply #149 on: November 10, 2017, 10:16:06 AM »

I wonder if VDP's attitude towards Brian these days goes back to OCA? I recall an interview where VDP talked about touring with BW in support of the album. Is Van Dyke bitter because that didn't happen?
Denny Laine made the mistake of talking to a writer back in the 80's sort of "off the record", and then those stories ended up in the tabloids. Denny never has an unkind word for McCartney these days, but it seems it is too little, too late. Macca seems to be in touch with other ex-Wings like Denny Seiwell, but Laine is like...well, it's like he never existed.


The same with Pete Best... it's unfortunate because I would have loved to have seen Pete Best on the Beatles anthology series speaking with Paul, George and Ringo about the early years..oh well...
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