Does Mike Love realize he is despised by millions of fans?

[Hickory Violet Part IV]

I'm no great Mike Love fan, but I will say this.....

I'm glad my family squabbles haven't been played out in public for years. Not sure I'd be fairing much better than Mike in the popularity polls. Especially  if I'd been famous since my early twenties and spent my life in a weird isolated bubble where I never had to grow up.

Like an insect trapped in amber, Mike is an eternal petulant child, squabbling with his siblings in the backseat of his family car on a long trip to nowhere.

"Dad, Mike's just hit me"

"Yeah, well Brian stole my writing credits for California Girls"

"SHUT UP YOU KIDS, OR I'LL HIT YOU ON THE HEAD WITH A PLATE AND sh*t IN YOUR EAR"



(Silence for two minutes)



"Dad, Mikes pulling faces"

"Yeah, well Brian's taking drugs"

"RIGHT, THAT'S IT,  STRAIGHT TO BED WHEN WE GET HOME AND I'M SELLING YOUR PUBLISHING COMPANY"

[Jay]

Seriously though, just watch the tape and you'll see everything you need to see. Respect isn't the first word that comes to mind.

Alright, let's try "admire". I admire the fact that Mike ws probably the only one in the room to speak the truth. I concede that it wasn't the best situation to do it in though, and much of the rest of what he said embarrassed the group.

I suppose that's a fair statement to make, even though I don't quite agree with all of it.

Would you say you admire those who call out Mike for missing the Hawthorne dedication too? Aren't those people just speaking the truth too? Serious question.

I thought he *did* attend it. Unless I'm confusing it with something else. I remember seeing footage of Mike, David, and I believe Brian. Somebody held up pictures of Carl and Dennis. If that wasn't the actual dedication, then I admit that he essentially did what he called Paul out for doing.

Nope, he unfortunately did not attend it. I would know because I was there myself, and it was a really sad thing to witness firsthand. Really quite sad. All of these old-school Hawthorne people were there, a really cool physical monument was unveiled (made by Dennis' own son Scott, who built it), and Mike was a no-show.  And he had the added chutzpah to publicly state that he was too busy being on tour or something to that effect.

See, once you witness that firsthand in front of you, it becomes mighty hard to have respect for the guy for saying what he did in such a manner in 1988, and who has had no self-awareness of the hypocrisy in the years since;  despite doing the exact same actions himself in 2005, he continues to this day to double down on not apologizing for what and how he said what he said in 1988. It boggles the mind, and the situation is both hilarious in its ridiculousness as well as utterly sad. 

You might be thinking about the Capitol rooftop reunion which was in 2006.

It was indeed the Capitol rooftop reunion I was thinking of. I didn't know that Dennis's son made the actual monument. For that reason alone Mike should have been there. I do recall a particularly evil thing Mike once said when the Wilson house was destroyed. I believe he called it "poetic justice".

[CenturyDeprived]

I'm no great Mike Love fan, but I will say this.....

I'm glad my family squabbles haven't been played out in public for years. Not sure I'd be fairing much better than Mike in the popularity polls. Especially  if I'd been famous since my early twenties and spent my life in a weird isolated bubble where I never had to grow up.

Like an insect trapped in amber, Mike is an eternal petulant child, squabbling with his siblings in the backseat of his family car on a long trip to nowhere.

"Dad, Mike's just hit me"

"Yeah, well Brian stole my writing credits for California Girls"

"SHUT UP YOU KIDS, OR I'LL HIT YOU ON THE HEAD WITH A PLATE AND sh*t IN YOUR EAR"



(Silence for two minutes)



"Dad, Mikes pulling faces"

"Yeah, well Brian's taking drugs"

"RIGHT, THAT'S IT,  STRAIGHT TO BED WHEN WE GET HOME AND I'M SELLING YOUR PUBLISHING COMPANY"

The imagery you've just described makes me wish for a Beach Boys-related childhood cartoon, drawn exactly in the style of The Simpsons. Leggo your ego, man. Cowabunga.

You are correct on all counts, and if there's something that I can feel a little bad for Mike about, it's understanding that he is really messed up from getting famous at a young age, and addicted to the adulation, and deeply afraid of losing it. And having a really messed-up family situation as well. It's not hard to understand how those things can mess someone up.

[CenturyDeprived]

Seriously though, just watch the tape and you'll see everything you need to see. Respect isn't the first word that comes to mind.

Alright, let's try "admire". I admire the fact that Mike ws probably the only one in the room to speak the truth. I concede that it wasn't the best situation to do it in though, and much of the rest of what he said embarrassed the group.

I suppose that's a fair statement to make, even though I don't quite agree with all of it.

Would you say you admire those who call out Mike for missing the Hawthorne dedication too? Aren't those people just speaking the truth too? Serious question.

I thought he *did* attend it. Unless I'm confusing it with something else. I remember seeing footage of Mike, David, and I believe Brian. Somebody held up pictures of Carl and Dennis. If that wasn't the actual dedication, then I admit that he essentially did what he called Paul out for doing.

Nope, he unfortunately did not attend it. I would know because I was there myself, and it was a really sad thing to witness firsthand. Really quite sad. All of these old-school Hawthorne people were there, a really cool physical monument was unveiled (made by Dennis' own son Scott, who built it), and Mike was a no-show.  And he had the added chutzpah to publicly state that he was too busy being on tour or something to that effect.

See, once you witness that firsthand in front of you, it becomes mighty hard to have respect for the guy for saying what he did in such a manner in 1988, and who has had no self-awareness of the hypocrisy in the years since;  despite doing the exact same actions himself in 2005, he continues to this day to double down on not apologizing for what and how he said what he said in 1988. It boggles the mind, and the situation is both hilarious in its ridiculousness as well as utterly sad.  

You might be thinking about the Capitol rooftop reunion which was in 2006.

It was indeed the Capitol rooftop reunion I was thinking of. I didn't know that Dennis's son made the actual monument. For that reason alone Mike should have been there. I do recall a particularly evil thing Mike once said when the Wilson house was destroyed. I believe he called it "poetic justice".

Right. And yeah, he should have absolutely been there if only for the reason you stated. I mean, I *get* that things sometimes get SO ugly that it can be excruciating to be around certain people. That is a sadly common thing that happens in relationships sometimes unfortunately, be it family, band members, etc. It's mighty sad when things like the Hall of Fame or the Hawthorne dedication don't bring everyone together. No doubt. And maybe it's kinda sh*tty in both cases of Paul with The Beatles and Mike with The Beach Boys.

And I know Brian didn't show up to Mike's Ella award either (although that was an award for Mike specifically, not an award to the whole band). But Brian gets a pass - not because he walks on water - but because he *doesn't* go hypocritically publicly calling out other people in other bands for doing that sort of thing, and then continue to defend said callouts for decades to come.  

People dislike Mike because he does stuff like this (Hall of Fame speech - followed by defending HoF - followed by Hawthorne no-show - followed by more endless defending HoF for DECADES)... AND largely because Mike states that people don't like him because they think Brian walks on water, as opposed to simply finding patterns of such hypocrisy quite off-putting. Those who dare to take him to task for this are insulted by Mike as being some blind worshipers of Brian Wilson, as opposed to just logical folk who find clunky hypocrites - whether they are politicians, rock stars, etc - to simply be laughable yutzes. The more smug and the more they cling steadfastly to their own defense in the face of obvious opposing evidence, the bigger the yutz factor. Common friggin' sense! At a certain point, the yutz factor becomes a putz factor. We're long past that point...

I don't even know how to respond to the "poetic justice" comment. Mike perhaps has no parallel except 45 in terms of celebs who have no filter and say very offensive and excessively inflammatory stuff. I have to think that the sycophants that surround 45 must be similar to the yes-folk who surround Mike.

[Dove Nested Towers]

Seriously though, just watch the tape and you'll see everything you need to see. Respect isn't the first word that comes to mind.

Alright, let's try "admire". I admire the fact that Mike ws probably the only one in the room to speak the truth. I concede that it wasn't the best situation to do it in though, and much of the rest of what he said embarrassed the group.

I suppose that's a fair statement to make, even though I don't quite agree with all of it.

Would you say you admire those who call out Mike for missing the Hawthorne dedication too? Aren't those people just speaking the truth too? Serious question.

I thought he *did* attend it. Unless I'm confusing it with something else. I remember seeing footage of Mike, David, and I believe Brian. Somebody held up pictures of Carl and Dennis. If that wasn't the actual dedication, then I admit that he essentially did what he called Paul out for doing.

Nope, he unfortunately did not attend it. I would know because I was there myself, and it was a really sad thing to witness firsthand. Really quite sad. All of these old-school Hawthorne people were there, a really cool physical monument was unveiled (made by Dennis' own son Scott, who built it), and Mike was a no-show.  And he had the added chutzpah to publicly state that he was too busy being on tour or something to that effect.

See, once you witness that firsthand in front of you, it becomes mighty hard to have respect for the guy for saying what he did in such a manner in 1988, and who has had no self-awareness of the hypocrisy in the years since;  despite doing the exact same actions himself in 2005, he continues to this day to double down on not apologizing for what and how he said what he said in 1988. It boggles the mind, and the situation is both hilarious in its ridiculousness as well as utterly sad.  

You might be thinking about the Capitol rooftop reunion which was in 2006.

It was indeed the Capitol rooftop reunion I was thinking of. I didn't know that Dennis's son made the actual monument. For that reason alone Mike should have been there. I do recall a particularly evil thing Mike once said when the Wilson house was destroyed. I believe he called it "poetic justice".

That was a bad moment, Jay. Something just occurred to me: I think one thing that particularly irks many folks about him is that the Beach Boys represent something very important to them, a symbolic ideal of good times, comfort, beauty or what have you, more than most bands,
and for that ideal concept or entity to have a nasty presence continually marring it in their eyes with bad acts and statements is doubly irritating, for that reason. The reverse of what the Wicked Witch of the West said: "how can such a little girl destroy my beautiful wickedness." How can such a mean old man diminish our wonderful music? Just a theory.

[Cabinessenceking]

Ultimately the problem with Mike Love is that he is very unfiltered.

When he thinks of something he blurts it out without any thought to what he's actually conveying, how that message is received by others and the consequences of his statements. Ultimately his unfiltered way is very un-appealing to very many, including his band mates.

Mike Love simply doesn't have that "inner guidance" which most people have when talking.

[HeyJude]

We're still hashing out the R&R HOF speech nearly 30 years later?

It's pretty simple, once you know the context both in terms of the event and the band, and once you actually listen to and *view* the entire speech.

A confrontational speech taking the HOF and the industry *and* some artists to task for a myriad of issues was and is needed.

Mike's speech was NOT that speech.

I don't think Mike knew precisely what points he was trying to make. What's ironic is that he ended up looking like an idiot and in subsequent years his speech carries *less and less* credibility, and it started with little. Taking other artists to task for not showing up or being in lawsuits is pretty rich from a guy infamous for being litigious and who has skipped his own band's events. Keep in mind this speech is less than ten years prior to him refusing to be on stage with Al Jardine anymore in concert.

Mike was totally called out *at the event* with snarky (and much more clever) retorts from Elton John and Bob Dylan.

Anybody that goes to an event and says "I'd like to see the mop tops match that!" is immediately going to look like a total tool.

He called out Mick Jagger not knowing that Jagger was actually in the audience.

The guys who had the worst were Carl and Al. Al described in his 2000 Goldmine interview that both Brian *and* Mike were weird at the event, with Brian stiffly reading his Landy-approved speech only to be followed up by Mike's weird speech. Al said *he* had to go apologize to George and Ringo for Mike's speech, with the two Beatles consoling Al and assuring him.

Look at the footage of Mike at that speech. Something's off. He's not there to call people out in the industry. He's in some sort of altered state, and he kind of admitted as much in later years, at least in terms of having "not meditated."

Mike's speech is no doubt *entertainment* on some level; joining the "trainwreck" spectacle list of BB events alongside Dennis at the Good Morning America interview and Brian in the leather pants on late night TV in '88, etc.

But I have a problem with it because it caused the band (and Mike, even if he doesn't care) some level of irreparable damage. Not enough to tank their career or anything. But it was *just enough* that it's *still* remembered by fans and in the industry.

I also have a problem and have always had a problem with anyone trying to paint Mike's speech as some sort of renegade, tell-it-like-it-is moment calling out the industry. Not only was that clearly *not* the angle or intention of the speech, but he didn't achieve it either. Maybe it wouldn't have been so bad if he had stopped at going after Diana Ross or something. But he basically challenged Paul McCartney, The Beatles as a whole, Mick Jagger, Bruce Springsteen, and Billy Joel all at the same time in one speech. He managed to call out almost exclusively the *small number* of artists who ever lived who are *more* popular and acclaimed than the Beach Boys. Sorry Mike. McCartney could have been in the midst of suing every single person in that room and you'd still look like an ass claiming your band is in any way superior to the Beatles. And that's not even getting into how his "moptops" comment made no sense considering it's not as if there was a Beatles in 1988 to challenge Mike's rigorous touring schedule.

[KDS]

We're still hashing out the R&R HOF speech nearly 30 years later?

It's pretty simple, once you know the context both in terms of the event and the band, and once you actually listen to and *view* the entire speech.

A confrontational speech taking the HOF and the industry *and* some artists to task for a myriad of issues was and is needed.

James Hetfield sort of did that when Metallica were inducted by listing a bunch of hard rock bands that should've been included before them.  I think Michael McCready of Pearl Jam wore a shirt listing RNRHOF snubs. 

[HeyJude]

We're still hashing out the R&R HOF speech nearly 30 years later?

It's pretty simple, once you know the context both in terms of the event and the band, and once you actually listen to and *view* the entire speech.

A confrontational speech taking the HOF and the industry *and* some artists to task for a myriad of issues was and is needed.

James Hetfield sort of did that when Metallica were inducted by listing a bunch of hard rock bands that should've been included before them.  I think Michael McCready of Pearl Jam wore a shirt listing RNRHOF snubs.  

A few people have made slight statements. McCartney's daughter wore the "About F***ing Time" shirt. Jeff Beck infamously and rather dryly pointed out during the Yardbirds induction that he had been kicked out of the band (his ire seemed directed specifically at his own former bandmates, not the HOF I suppose).

A few other people have spoken out against the HOF backstage during the ceremony (I think Steve Miller was one case in the last year or two).

Nobody came away from Mike's '88 speech thinking he was "tellin' it like it is." If he had stopped after admonishing people for not being more harmonious, etc., then maybe it wouldn't have been too bad. But once he called Mick Jagger "chickens**t", it was over and Mike had lost. The headline and legacy of the event became Mike ranting and being ever so slightly unhinged, along with Elton John saying "Thank f**k he didn't mention me" and Bob Dylan saying “I want to thank Mike Love for not mentioning me,… Peace, love and harmony is greatly important indeed, but so is forgiveness.”

[KDS]

We're still hashing out the R&R HOF speech nearly 30 years later?

It's pretty simple, once you know the context both in terms of the event and the band, and once you actually listen to and *view* the entire speech.

A confrontational speech taking the HOF and the industry *and* some artists to task for a myriad of issues was and is needed.

James Hetfield sort of did that when Metallica were inducted by listing a bunch of hard rock bands that should've been included before them.  I think Michael McCready of Pearl Jam wore a shirt listing RNRHOF snubs.  

A few people have made slight statements. McCartney's daughter wore the "About F***ing Time" shirt. Jeff Beck infamously and rather dryly pointed out during the Yardbirds induction that he had been kicked out of the band (his ire seemed directed specifically at his own former bandmates, not the HOF I suppose).

A few other people have spoken out against the HOF backstage during the ceremony (I think Steve Miller was one case in the last year or two).

Nobody came away from Mike's '88 speech thinking he was "tellin' it like it is." If he had stopped after admonishing people for not being more harmonious, etc., then maybe it wouldn't have been too bad. But once he called Mick Jagger "chickens**t", it was over and Mike had lost. The headline and legacy of the event became Mike ranting and being ever so slightly unhinged, along with Elton John saying "Thank f**k he didn't mention me" and Bob Dylan saying “I want to thank Mike Love for not mentioning me,… Peace, love and harmony is greatly important indeed, but so is forgiveness.”

I forgot about the Steve Miller thing last year. 

Yeah, I know I defend Mike a lot, but the Rock and Roll HOF Speech isn't something I can defend.  Didn't George Harrison quip something to the effect of "I guess he didn't listen to the Maharishi."

[kreen]

But back on that HOF speech, no matter what the opinions in 2017 may be, it's there on video above for all to watch and to me it doesn't come off 29 years later as much more than a guy making an ass out of himself in spite of his bandmates who wisely got the hell out of there and away from Mike, whatever opinions of the event itself may be. CD is onto something in his post about it.

That speech was entertainment. It's still got us talking all these years later. It was the punk rock thing to do. It was Keith Moon driving his car into the hotel swimming pool and getting the whole band banned.

If you guys would rather get the excruciating platitudes that make up 99,9 % of all speeches at the HoF, then we have a different idea of what should be expected of rock n' roll.

[CenturyDeprived]

But back on that HOF speech, no matter what the opinions in 2017 may be, it's there on video above for all to watch and to me it doesn't come off 29 years later as much more than a guy making an ass out of himself in spite of his bandmates who wisely got the hell out of there and away from Mike, whatever opinions of the event itself may be. CD is onto something in his post about it.

That speech was entertainment. It's still got us talking all these years later. It was the punk rock thing to do. It was Keith Moon driving his car into the hotel swimming pool and getting the whole band banned.

If you guys would rather get the excruciating platitudes that make up 99,9 % of all speeches at the HoF, then we have a different idea of what should be expected of rock n' roll.

Two questions for you, kreen:

- So you're not bothered by the fact that Mike is a hypocrite who did the exact same thing as Paul in 2005 when he was a no-show for Hawthorne?  That's ok and cool?

- Does that mean that if a fan goes to the Hawthorne monument and holds a press conference to discuss the finer points of why Mike is pathetic for not showing up at the dedication, that the fan who does this is being "punk rock" and should be patted on the back for making "entertainment"?

[Chocolate Shake Man]

But back on that HOF speech, no matter what the opinions in 2017 may be, it's there on video above for all to watch and to me it doesn't come off 29 years later as much more than a guy making an ass out of himself in spite of his bandmates who wisely got the hell out of there and away from Mike, whatever opinions of the event itself may be. CD is onto something in his post about it.

That speech was entertainment. It's still got us talking all these years later. It was the punk rock thing to do. It was Keith Moon driving his car into the hotel swimming pool and getting the whole band banned.

If you guys would rather get the excruciating platitudes that make up 99,9 % of all speeches at the HoF, then we have a different idea of what should be expected of rock n' roll.

Anybody seriously exemplifying the punk attitude wouldn't have been at the ceremony in the first place. In that sense, I guess Macca was being the most punk out of everyone involved.

[KDS]

I could be misremembering things, but didn't Mike and Bruce not attend the unveiling in Hawthorne due to a Beach Boys performance that same day? 

[HeyJude]

But back on that HOF speech, no matter what the opinions in 2017 may be, it's there on video above for all to watch and to me it doesn't come off 29 years later as much more than a guy making an ass out of himself in spite of his bandmates who wisely got the hell out of there and away from Mike, whatever opinions of the event itself may be. CD is onto something in his post about it.

That speech was entertainment. It's still got us talking all these years later. It was the punk rock thing to do. It was Keith Moon driving his car into the hotel swimming pool and getting the whole band banned.

If you guys would rather get the excruciating platitudes that make up 99,9 % of all speeches at the HoF, then we have a different idea of what should be expected of rock n' roll.

As I just mentioned in a previous post, a "punk rock" sort of speech tearing everybody a new one would potentially be great. That's NOT the speech Mike gave.

It's like saying Carl being high and drunk and keeling over on stage in 1978 was "punk rock", when it was rather just being zonked out.

Whining that you don't get more credit for your back-breaking tour schedule is not "punk rock."

Asking a near-20-years-defunct band with a dead member to "match" your touring schedule is not "punk rock." It's like a boxer in 2017 opining that he'd like to see Muhammed Ali step into the ring and beat him.

Leaving yourself wide open for an epic "burn" from both Elton John and Bob Dylan is not "punk rock."

And as also mentioned, even being at the ceremony isn't really "punk rock."

[CenturyDeprived]

I could be misremembering things, but didn't Mike and Bruce not attend the unveiling in Hawthorne due to a Beach Boys performance that same day?  

That was the excuse... but OBVIOUSLY it was something where Mike chose to make that happen. C'mon. You think Mike would've missed his Ella award because of a "BBs" performance?

There was bad blood, and booking a show was a very easy excuse to avoid saying that he didn't want to be there to have to deal with the awkwardness of being around people he was suing.

The dude has access to jets. If Mike really absolutely wanted to be at the Hawthorne dedication, he could certainly have made that happen one way or another. Plus the city of Hawthorne would have certainly rescheduled the ceremony to fit his schedule if a founding member of the band had asked for it.  You know it, I know it.

[KDS]

I could be misremembering things, but didn't Mike and Bruce not attend the unveiling in Hawthorne due to a Beach Boys performance that same day?  

That was the excuse... but OBVIOUSLY it was something where Mike chose to make that happen. C'mon. You think Mike would've missed his Ella award because of a "BBs" performance?

There was bad blood, and booking a show was a very easy excuse to avoid saying that he didn't want to be there to have to deal with the awkwardness of being around people he was suing.

The dude has access to jets. If Mike really absolutely wanted to be at the Hawthorne dedication, he could certainly have made that happen one way or another. The city of Hawthorne would have certainly rescheduled the ceremony to fit his schedule if he'd asked for it. You know it, I know it.

I don't think either you and I know 100%, but I do agree that things could've been moved. 

[guitarfool2002]

Just a quick detour on the topic of what is or isn't punk rock.

What is frustrating, not in an angry sense but in a forehead-slapping WTF moment kind of deal, is that fans can listen to some of those songs and performances especially in the early and mid-60's and hear that some of Mike's vocals were in fact "punk rock" before that was even a term. I love that vocal on Papa Oo Mow Mow...and Brian himself has said he loved that guttural sound Mike could get on songs like that. Just listen to the raw energy of that...and listen to things like the various live material from 63-65...some of the songs rock like a motherfucker. Pure youthful abandon.

It is frustrating that Mike was actually doing authentic garage punk rock in some of that music before it was even a term or genre, and it's more universal of a positive to be known for than a speech which made him a laughingstock. It's hard to understand. If Mike thinks that speech was punk rock, it's hard to understand.

[CenturyDeprived]

I could be misremembering things, but didn't Mike and Bruce not attend the unveiling in Hawthorne due to a Beach Boys performance that same day?  

That was the excuse... but OBVIOUSLY it was something where Mike chose to make that happen. C'mon. You think Mike would've missed his Ella award because of a "BBs" performance?

There was bad blood, and booking a show was a very easy excuse to avoid saying that he didn't want to be there to have to deal with the awkwardness of being around people he was suing.

The dude has access to jets. If Mike really absolutely wanted to be at the Hawthorne dedication, he could certainly have made that happen one way or another. The city of Hawthorne would have certainly rescheduled the ceremony to fit his schedule if he'd asked for it. You know it, I know it.

I don't think either you and I know 100%, but I do agree that things could've been moved.  

And if he tried moving the event and the city refused, he'd have mentioned it in a press release or something, expressing how bummed he was and how many Herculean efforts he'd undertaken to try and make it.

Mike's "I'm busy with a show" excuse is akin to the "something suddenly came up" excuse that future Landy patient Maureen Marcia Brady McCormick was on the receiving end of, via that jerk Doug in the famous Brady Bunch episode. Just as paperthin.  

[HeyJude]

I could be misremembering things, but didn't Mike and Bruce not attend the unveiling in Hawthorne due to a Beach Boys performance that same day? 

The Hawthorne event was discussed online back then, but it slightly predates this board. I recall it was unclear whether Mike and Bruce were truly booked up on *that* particular day.

The available tour schedules I can find show that the Hawthorne event was on May 20, and the closest Mike dates on the public tour schedule would be May 1st in PA and then May 21st in Kansas City, MO.

So unless they had a private gig, they could have made it to the Hawthorne event. One could also argue they could have shuffled any private gig to another date to attend such an event. I should say Mike, because Bruce wasn’t really part of that era or that monument.

Much like other cases of “scheduling conflicts”, it’s probably a mixture of several things. But I think it’s not out of line to assume it’s quite possible politics were at play concerning Mike not showing at the Hawthorne event.

Prior to C50, there were very few cases of Mike appearing in public with either Brian *or* Al. Mike and Al made an appearance at the Grammy events in early 2000 (where Al infamously said he stayed “as far away” from Mike as possible). I think the Capitol rooftop event in 2006 was the next instance, and then nothing else until 2011 when Mike and Al appeared together at a couple of events sort of as a prelude to the C50 reunion (California HOF, the Reagan gig).

[KDS]

Just a quick detour on the topic of what is or isn't punk rock.

What is frustrating, not in an angry sense but in a forehead-slapping WTF moment kind of deal, is that fans can listen to some of those songs and performances especially in the early and mid-60's and hear that some of Mike's vocals were in fact "punk rock" before that was even a term. I love that vocal on Papa Oo Mow Mow...and Brian himself has said he loved that guttural sound Mike could get on songs like that. Just listen to the raw energy of that...and listen to things like the various live material from 63-65...some of the songs rock like a motherfucker. Pure youthful abandon.

It is frustrating that Mike was actually doing authentic garage punk rock in some of that music before it was even a term or genre, and it's more universal of a positive to be known for than a speech which made him a laughingstock. It's hard to understand. If Mike thinks that speech was punk rock, it's hard to understand.

I'm no expert on punk, nor have I ever claimed to be, but I've heard and seen the word "punk" or "punk rock" often overused to describe acts that may not be along the lines of "acceptable."

Ie.  "That guy kicked that trash can over, that's so punk."  "That band made their audience wait two hours before they hit the stage, that's so punk rock."  

[KDS]

I could be misremembering things, but didn't Mike and Bruce not attend the unveiling in Hawthorne due to a Beach Boys performance that same day? 

The Hawthorne event was discussed online back then, but it slightly predates this board. I recall it was unclear whether Mike and Bruce were truly booked up on *that* particular day.

The available tour schedules I can find show that the Hawthorne event was on May 20, and the closest Mike dates on the public tour schedule would be May 1st in PA and then May 21st in Kansas City, MO.

So unless they had a private gig, they could have made it to the Hawthorne event. One could also argue they could have shuffled any private gig to another date to attend such an event. I should say Mike, because Bruce wasn’t really part of that era or that monument.

Much like other cases of “scheduling conflicts”, it’s probably a mixture of several things. But I think it’s not out of line to assume it’s quite possible politics were at play concerning Mike not showing at the Hawthorne event.

Prior to C50, there were very few cases of Mike appearing in public with either Brian *or* Al. Mike and Al made an appearance at the Grammy events in early 2000 (where Al infamously said he stayed “as far away” from Mike as possible). I think the Capitol rooftop event in 2006 was the next instance, and then nothing else until 2011 when Mike and Al appeared together at a couple of events sort of as a prelude to the C50 reunion (California HOF, the Reagan gig).

Thanks, I couldn't remember. 

[guitarfool2002]

I'll willingly rehash an issue I've commented on many times.

At the end of C50, in the UK, The Wilsons threw a dinner party for band and crew to celebrate the C50 tour. There were photos posted of that dinner on Facebook and other media, including this board. Everyone is there, around the table, band and crew...except Mike and Bruce. They didn't go.

If they say a picture is worth a thousand words, that picture of the C50 dinner could be the Encyclopedia Brittanica.

Has it ever been clarified why Mike and Bruce shined on that event? "previous obligations"?...sure. I think people can reasonably fill in the reasons why they weren't there.

So there is another example more recent than 2005 in Hawthorne where Mike and the notion of "band unity" didn't seem to mesh. And this one involved members of Mike's own crew and band...along with his cousin who he says he was being kept away from, this time in what was literally a chance to "break bread" at the table with his cousin and bandmates of 50+ years. So why wasn't Mike or Bruce there?

[HeyJude]

I think there was fairly ample proof that Mike and Bruce weren't absent from that C50 final dinner due to a concert obligation, as Totten and other Mike band members were there at the dinner.

[Jim V.]

So why wasn't Mike or Bruce there?

Previous obligations.