Does Mike Love realize he is despised by millions of fans?

[Jay]

I expect my rock stars to shoot off the mouth about stuff, scandalize the bourgeois bien pensants (like with that picture with President Trump) and not give a crap what people think. In that respect, Mike Love and Bruce Johnston fit the bill perfectly.

I've always felt that Mike's speech at the R n' R Hall of Fame, for instance, was one of the most rock n' roll things to ever take place at that event.

If there is one thing I will always respect about Mike Love, it's his having the balls to call out Paul McCartney  for his cop out from The Beatles' Induction.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

I expect my rock stars to shoot off the mouth about stuff, scandalize the bourgeois bien pensants (like with that picture with President Trump) and not give a crap what people think. In that respect, Mike Love and Bruce Johnston fit the bill perfectly.

I've always felt that Mike's speech at the R n' R Hall of Fame, for instance, was one of the most rock n' roll things to ever take place at that event.

If there is one thing I will always respect about Mike Love, it's his having the balls to call out Paul McCartney  for his cop out from The Beatles' Induction.

I don't know. I think Ray Davies put it better when he called out everyone in the room, including himself, for attending such a dignified and respectable event. I think history has shown that the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is really not something worth showing up for.

[guitarfool2002]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZSAQX2uuUY

There's the actual HOF speech. Even before Mike starts talking and the other band members wisely get the f*** out of there as he's making an ass out of himself, watch him and his actions before he even starts speaking. That was really something to respect watching him interrupt Brian's speech.

That's punk rock?

This speech was a positive for Mike and the band?

Sure.

Four decades later it's still one of the most embarrassing public spectacles that has befallen the band.

[CenturyDeprived]

I expect my rock stars to shoot off the mouth about stuff, scandalize the bourgeois bien pensants (like with that picture with President Trump) and not give a crap what people think. In that respect, Mike Love and Bruce Johnston fit the bill perfectly.

I've always felt that Mike's speech at the R n' R Hall of Fame, for instance, was one of the most rock n' roll things to ever take place at that event.

If there is one thing I will always respect about Mike Love, it's his having the balls to call out Paul McCartney  for his cop out from The Beatles' Induction.

How can Mike's calling out of someone else in a different band be worthy of respect when Mike himself has behaved in ways (on a consistent, ongoing basis) that absolutely epitomize what he himself was calling out in others? Like Mike missing the Hawthorne monument induction (just for starters)...

It would be like praising Mike for Mike teaching a college class where the sole purpose of the class was to call out narcissistic behavior in others. Umm... you only get to do that (and be praised for it) when you take a good, hard look at your EXACT SAME BEHAVIOR and make a change. That's how it works. Then respect could make an iota of sense.

Please explain if I'm missing something here, Jay?

[guitarfool2002]

Ironic that in 2012 Mike became the one who was too chickenshit to join his own bandmates on stage. They got more attention and adulation than he did, perhaps.

[Jay]

Ironic that in 2012 Mike became the one who was too chickenshit to join his own bandmates on stage. They got more attention and adulation than he did, perhaps.

When? I seem to recall him being at every single show.

[guitarfool2002]

Ironic that in 2012 Mike became the one who was too chickenshit to join his own bandmates on stage. They got more attention and adulation than he did, perhaps.

When? I seem to recall him being at every single show.

Fall 2012. He scuppered C50. Blew the lid off at a public Grammy event, again kind of ironic.

Hey did you doublecheck that whole decades thing you tried to nail me on? 

[Jay]

Ironic that in 2012 Mike became the one who was too chickenshit to join his own bandmates on stage. They got more attention and adulation than he did, perhaps.

When? I seem to recall him being at every single show.

Fall 2012. He scuppered C50. Blew the lid off at a public Grammy event, again kind of ironic.

Hey did you doublecheck that whole decades thing you tried to nail me on? 

Sure did. A decade is 10 years, right? 1967-2017 is six decades. Granted, I do have a math learning disability...

I wasn't calling you out on anything. I honestly thought you had made a typo.

[guitarfool2002]

Ironic that in 2012 Mike became the one who was too chickenshit to join his own bandmates on stage. They got more attention and adulation than he did, perhaps.

When? I seem to recall him being at every single show.

Fall 2012. He scuppered C50. Blew the lid off at a public Grammy event, again kind of ironic.

Hey did you doublecheck that whole decades thing you tried to nail me on? 

Sure did. A decade is 10 years, right? 1967-2017 is six decades. Granted, I do have a math learning disability...

I wasn't calling you out on anything. I honestly thought you had made a typo.

No worries, I was just checking! I should have said 50 years, seriously. There is a show and cable TV network called "Decades" which runs great old TV programs, I had that on in the background. No lie! 

[guitarfool2002]

But back on that HOF speech, no matter what the opinions in 2017 may be, it's there on video above for all to watch and to me it doesn't come off 29 years later as much more than a guy making an ass out of himself in spite of his bandmates who wisely got the hell out of there and away from Mike, whatever opinions of the event itself may be. CD is onto something in his post about it.

[Jay]

I expect my rock stars to shoot off the mouth about stuff, scandalize the bourgeois bien pensants (like with that picture with President Trump) and not give a crap what people think. In that respect, Mike Love and Bruce Johnston fit the bill perfectly.

I've always felt that Mike's speech at the R n' R Hall of Fame, for instance, was one of the most rock n' roll things to ever take place at that event.

If there is one thing I will always respect about Mike Love, it's his having the balls to call out Paul McCartney  for his cop out from The Beatles' Induction.

How can Mike's calling out of someone else in a different band be worthy of respect when Mike himself has behaved in ways (on a consistent, ongoing basis) that absolutely epitomize what he himself was calling out in others? Like Mike missing the Hawthorne monument induction (just for starters)...

It would be like praising Mike for Mike teaching a college class where the sole purpose of the class was to call out narcissistic behavior in others. Umm... you only get to do that (and be praised for it) when you take a good, hard look at your EXACT SAME BEHAVIOR and make a change. That's how it works. Then respect could make an iota of sense.

Please explain if I'm missing something here, Jay?

I'm not excusing or even pointing out any other negative things about Mike. Basically, Paul was in the middle of a lawsuit with Apple(I believe it was Apple) at the time. I just think it was kind of a dick move that Paul couldn't put aside everything for a day and if not perform, then at the very least stand next to his former partners and friends. I'm glade somebody called him out on it. Granted, it wasn't the ideal situation, but my point stands.

[CenturyDeprived]

I expect my rock stars to shoot off the mouth about stuff, scandalize the bourgeois bien pensants (like with that picture with President Trump) and not give a crap what people think. In that respect, Mike Love and Bruce Johnston fit the bill perfectly.

I've always felt that Mike's speech at the R n' R Hall of Fame, for instance, was one of the most rock n' roll things to ever take place at that event.

If there is one thing I will always respect about Mike Love, it's his having the balls to call out Paul McCartney  for his cop out from The Beatles' Induction.

How can Mike's calling out of someone else in a different band be worthy of respect when Mike himself has behaved in ways (on a consistent, ongoing basis) that absolutely epitomize what he himself was calling out in others? Like Mike missing the Hawthorne monument induction (just for starters)...

It would be like praising Mike for Mike teaching a college class where the sole purpose of the class was to call out narcissistic behavior in others. Umm... you only get to do that (and be praised for it) when you take a good, hard look at your EXACT SAME BEHAVIOR and make a change. That's how it works. Then respect could make an iota of sense.

Please explain if I'm missing something here, Jay?

I'm not excusing or even pointing out any other negative things about Mike. Basically, Paul was in the middle of a lawsuit with Apple(I believe it was Apple) at the time. I just think it was kind of a dick move that Paul couldn't put aside everything for a day and if not perform, then at the very least stand next to his former partners and friends. I'm glade somebody called him out on it. Granted, it wasn't the ideal situation, but my point stands.

I won't deny it's unfortunate about Paul at the time. That's not an untrue statement.

But again, I just don't see how to make the connection about it being a comment worthy of respect for Mike *specifically because* he himself does and did that kind of Paul-esque thing over and over again himself.   I do not know how some fan watching that speech divorces themselves from that knowledge about Mike to independently praise him for calling that Paul thing out, just simply casually omitting what we know about Mike's long history of actions.

Because by that logic, you have to respect me and everyone else (and publicly state it on a message board) for calling out Mike for missing things like the Hawthorne dedication. I called out it, Mike's no-show in 2005 is a thing worthy of criticism, just like Paul's was, so those who call it out as a dick move should certainly, by that logic, get praise and respect. Deal?

[guitarfool2002]

Seriously though, just watch the tape and you'll see everything you need to see. Respect isn't the first word that comes to mind.

[Jay]

This is a prime example of what is wrong with this board. Poster A makes one semi-positive point about Mike, while conceding that he also has quite a few faults. Poster B uses that one positive against any and all of the negative stuff Mike has ever done while being a member of The Beach Boys, and subtly insults poster A for having the nerve to ever actually respect that low life, no good excuse for a human. Man, the grass is looking more and more greener on the other side.

[Jay]

Seriously though, just watch the tape and you'll see everything you need to see. Respect isn't the first word that comes to mind.

Alright, let's try "admire". I admire the fact that Mike ws probably the only one in the room to speak the truth. I concede that it wasn't the best situation to do it in though, and much of the rest of what he said embarrassed the group.

[CenturyDeprived]

This is a prime example of what is wrong with this board. Poster A makes one semi-positive point about Mike, while conceding that he also has quite a few faults. Poster B uses that one positive against any and all of the negative stuff Mike has ever done while being a member of The Beach Boys, and subtly insults poster A for having the nerve to ever actually respect that low life, no good excuse for a human. Man, the grass is looking more and more greener on the other side.

Nah, I think there are some good things about Mike. I think he loves his cousin, genuinely, yet is just pretty severely messed up in a lot of ways, and surrounded by a cocoon of those who enable his narcissism. I just honestly have a hard time specifically understanding how it's worthy of respect for a guy who does a particular lame action to call that out in others.

I don't know how anyone is able to do that. It disgusts me when politicians do it too. I don't mean to sound like a jerk about it by making various analogies in my posts; I'm literally trying to wrap my head around it.

I can get how one can say that Mike wasn't incorrect *in principal* about not digging Paul's actions; it's just that Mike was in no position to point that out publicly, in the manner that he did, being that he's guilty of the same thing repeatedly. That's my sole point in this back-and-forth discussion. I have plenty of things to praise Mike for musically, and I won't hesitate to continue to praise him for those things in the future.

[guitarfool2002]

Seriously though, just watch the tape and you'll see everything you need to see. Respect isn't the first word that comes to mind.

Alright, let's try "admire". I admire the fact that Mike ws probably the only one in the room to speak the truth. I concede that it wasn't the best situation to do it in though, and much of the rest of what he said embarrassed the group.

I have to ask - Do you think Mike cared that it embarrassed the group, or that he as a de facto spokesman for The Beach Boys at that moment embarrassed the group he was the face of at that mic? When Mike called Jagger "chickenshit" did he realize he was also the face of his band at that very moment? I don't think he did or he just didn't give a flying f*** about the band and his bandmates who just bailed off the stage behind him.

[CenturyDeprived]

Seriously though, just watch the tape and you'll see everything you need to see. Respect isn't the first word that comes to mind.

Alright, let's try "admire". I admire the fact that Mike ws probably the only one in the room to speak the truth. I concede that it wasn't the best situation to do it in though, and much of the rest of what he said embarrassed the group.

I have to ask - Do you think Mike cared that it embarrassed the group, or that he as a de facto spokesman for The Beach Boys at that moment embarrassed the group he was the face of at that mic? When Mike called Jagger "chickenshit" did he realize he was also the face of his band at that very moment? I don't think he did or he just didn't give a flying f*** about the band and his bandmates who just bailed off the stage behind him.

For what it's worth, he did wear that hard hat construction hat thingie soon after (was it a week later?) at some other awards show appearance. Not sure if that means he cared, or was making a joking gesture about not wanting to take more flak for the speech. That's anyone's guess.  That he still won't - to this day - just outwardly state that he regrets if he embarrassed his bandmates speaks volumes to me. But that's Mike, he doesn't ever FULLY apologize for ANYTHING publicly (and I highly doubt privately either), and that's the main reason I have endless problems with the guy.

[CenturyDeprived]

Seriously though, just watch the tape and you'll see everything you need to see. Respect isn't the first word that comes to mind.

Alright, let's try "admire". I admire the fact that Mike ws probably the only one in the room to speak the truth. I concede that it wasn't the best situation to do it in though, and much of the rest of what he said embarrassed the group.

I suppose that's a fair statement to make, even though I don't quite agree with all of it.

Would you say you admire those who call out Mike for missing the Hawthorne dedication too? Aren't those people just speaking the truth too? Serious question.

[guitarfool2002]

Seriously though, just watch the tape and you'll see everything you need to see. Respect isn't the first word that comes to mind.

Alright, let's try "admire". I admire the fact that Mike ws probably the only one in the room to speak the truth. I concede that it wasn't the best situation to do it in though, and much of the rest of what he said embarrassed the group.

I have to ask - Do you think Mike cared that it embarrassed the group, or that he as a de facto spokesman for The Beach Boys at that moment embarrassed the group he was the face of at that mic? When Mike called Jagger "chickenshit" did he realize he was also the face of his band at that very moment? I don't think he did or he just didn't give a flying f*** about the band and his bandmates who just bailed off the stage behind him.

For what it's worth, he did wear that hard hat construction hat thingie soon after (was it a week later?) at some other awards show appearance. Not sure if that means he cared, or was making a joking gesture about not wanting to take more flak for it. That's anyone's guess. That he still won't - to this day - just outwardly state that he regrets if he embarrassed his bandmates speaks volumes to me. But that's Mike, he doesn't ever FULLY apologize for ANYTHING publicly, and that's the main reason I have endless problems with the guy.

Mike went on the Howard Stern show just a few years later to promote Summer In Paradise. Along with his usual talking points including telling the same Manson story that was such a "revelation" when it was used to tease Mike's book over 20 years later, and trying to pump gas into the SIP hype vehicle even though there was no engine under that hood and 4 flat tires, the HOF speech came up. Stern played that speech damn near every morning in a montage of audio before his show started just after 6am. Stern also kind of went along with what Mike said, and if you listen to what Mike himself said about the speech...there doesn't seem to be a speck of either regret, humility, or even an acknowledgement from Mike that he may have screwed the pooch on this one or embarrassed the other Beach Boys who were there. In fact he seemed to feed off Stern and almost doubled down on his actions at that ceremony.

So as far as apologizing for the speech or any aspect of it including the embarrassment to his bandmates, Mike's actions almost show he feels he did nothing out of line, let alone worth an apology.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Seriously though, just watch the tape and you'll see everything you need to see. Respect isn't the first word that comes to mind.

Alright, let's try "admire". I admire the fact that Mike ws probably the only one in the room to speak the truth. I concede that it wasn't the best situation to do it in though, and much of the rest of what he said embarrassed the group.

I don't think Mike really knew what the truth was, which was largely that the relationship between the three living Beatles was, at that point, at the lowest point it had been probably since their breakup and much of this had to do with the fact that there was still a massive fallout due to Harrison, Starr, and Ono discovering that McCartney had been keeping secret an override clause with EMI which would give him more royalties than the other three - something that he secretly negotiated in 1975. Whatever we think of McCartney's actions - I don't think they're great - I don't think Mike was in any position to know what was going on in order to make the statement he made.

But let's face it, the rest of the speech is evidence that he didn't really care. He was just using that as a way to position himself and the band as superior to other people in the room, which is why he didn't just call out McCartney but also Diana Ross, The Stones, and others, which prompted the responses that his speech got from Dylan and Elton John. So, no, I don't particularly think airing the dirty laundry of others to make himself appear better is really an admirable act. Nor did Ringo evidently who mocked Mike Love when it was his turn to speak.

[Jay]

This is a prime example of what is wrong with this board. Poster A makes one semi-positive point about Mike, while conceding that he also has quite a few faults. Poster B uses that one positive against any and all of the negative stuff Mike has ever done while being a member of The Beach Boys, and subtly insults poster A for having the nerve to ever actually respect that low life, no good excuse for a human. Man, the grass is looking more and more greener on the other side.

I can get how one can say that Mike wasn't incorrect *in principal* about not digging Paul's actions; it's just that Mike was in no position to point that out publicly, in the manner that he did, being that he's guilty of the same thing repeatedly. That's my sole point in this back-and-forth discussion. I have plenty of things to praise Mike for musically, and I won't hesitate to continue to praise him for those things in the future.

I get your point. I definitely should have said *in principal* like you just did. I think quite a lot of people wouldn't have had the guts to say something like what Mike did, while secretly agreeing with it. It was a "tell it like it is" moment, I guess.

I also want to say that the "subtly insult" thing in my above post wasn't directed at you specifically. It just seems to me that many people here are going out of their way to prove that with Mike, the bad outweighs the good., no matter whatever positive there may be in him.

[Jay]

Seriously though, just watch the tape and you'll see everything you need to see. Respect isn't the first word that comes to mind.

Alright, let's try "admire". I admire the fact that Mike ws probably the only one in the room to speak the truth. I concede that it wasn't the best situation to do it in though, and much of the rest of what he said embarrassed the group.

I suppose that's a fair statement to make, even though I don't quite agree with all of it.

Would you say you admire those who call out Mike for missing the Hawthorne dedication too? Aren't those people just speaking the truth too? Serious question.

I thought he *did* attend it. Unless I'm confusing it with something else. I remember seeing footage of Mike, David, and I believe Brian. Somebody held up pictures of Carl and Dennis. If that wasn't the actual dedication, then I admit that he essentially did what he called Paul out for doing.

[CenturyDeprived]

Seriously though, just watch the tape and you'll see everything you need to see. Respect isn't the first word that comes to mind.

Alright, let's try "admire". I admire the fact that Mike ws probably the only one in the room to speak the truth. I concede that it wasn't the best situation to do it in though, and much of the rest of what he said embarrassed the group.

I suppose that's a fair statement to make, even though I don't quite agree with all of it.

Would you say you admire those who call out Mike for missing the Hawthorne dedication too? Aren't those people just speaking the truth too? Serious question.

I thought he *did* attend it. Unless I'm confusing it with something else. I remember seeing footage of Mike, David, and I believe Brian. Somebody held up pictures of Carl and Dennis. If that wasn't the actual dedication, then I admit that he essentially did what he called Paul out for doing.

Nope, he unfortunately did not attend it. I would know because I was there myself, and it was a really sad thing to witness firsthand. Really quite sad. All of these old-school Hawthorne people were there, a really cool physical monument was unveiled (made by Dennis' own son Scott, who built it), and Mike was a no-show.  And he had the added chutzpah to publicly state that he was too busy being on tour or something to that effect.

See, once you witness that firsthand in front of you, it becomes mighty hard to have respect for the guy for saying what he did in such a manner in 1988, and who has had no self-awareness of the hypocrisy in the years since; despite doing the exact same actions himself in 2005, he continues to this day to double down on not apologizing for what and how he said what he said in 1988, correctly betting on the fact that not enough people know about what went down in 2005. It boggles the mind, and the situation is both hilarious in its ridiculousness as well as utterly sad.  

You might be thinking about the Capitol rooftop reunion which was in 2006.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Also, the thing that Mike was really calling McCartney out for - and everyone else in the audience for that matter - was the inability to achieve "harmony" with his band mates. If there was a point to the rambling fiasco of that speech, it was precisely that - the people of Earth needed to see themselves in harmony with one another. That's why it was a drag for Mike to see The Beatles not in harmony with one another at the RRHOF. However, the ensuing years have shown that that point is quite rich coming from Mike Love.

At any rate, there is a counter-response that I think is well worth considering. McCartney noted in his comments at the time that it would have been hypocritical for The Beatles to present themselves "in harmony" at the HOF while, in reality, they were at each other's throats behind closed doors. Indeed, if The Beatles did anything for popular culture, it was to be at the forefront of taking away a little bit of the artifice. The band was, at its core, cynical about the pageantry of entertainment. They were quite knowingly from the get-go attempting to portray themselves as genuinely as possible. For them to go against that at a ceremony that was set-up to celebrate them and their accomplishments, would have been going against the very ethos that was The Beatles. Or at least, that's what McCartney might have been thinking. And if it was, McCartney might be quite justified in calling out Mike Love for going on about harmony at a time when his own band was wallpapering over a pretty unhappy situation.