Does Mike Love realize he is despised by millions of fans?

[Lee Marshall]

I just want to make it perfectly clear that I've considered Michael "Eddy' Love to be pretty much an ongoing and complete moron... [and lord KNOWS ... I've tried and tried to cut that effin' prick a break LOADS of times]...since about 1967-68.  "sh*t on a stick" I even went after Smile Brian and the Old Fella Balanced in the water aboard an Ironing Board to try and get them to cut out just posting mere poop rather than giving valid reasons for always crapping on the follically abandoned old  fool...like a year ]and a 1/2] or so ago but ol' Eddy wouldn't quit his avalanche of sh*t covered cheese so finally I had to admit that the guy really is an unsalvageable, yet still colossal asshole/muther-f*cker who was only just plugging his upcoming 'book' sales and so I give the 2 fellas here the benefit of the doubt.  [It sure as sh*t never had ANYTHING to do with "the Music" ...'cause he's incapable of making or releasing anything valid which would inspire serious scrutiny.  All he has musically is Scott Totten saving the live performances from wreckage just like Carl used to.  Eddy hasn't got a clue how to pull that off.  That and Brian's memorable songs, melodies and vocal arrangements...some of which 'love-stinks' penned lyrics to.]

Let it be known that I thought his talents were grossly limited and that his prickish demeanor was 100% OFF-PUTTING long before that Trump disgustoid ever became a subject of global concern.

KDS is a real, live, and valid fan of the music.  No doubt.  No 2 ways about it.  The 'politicalization' of the Beach Boys body of work is not his main objective.  In fact I doubt it's even a tertiary concern.  He is all about enjoying the best of the best that music has to offer in a communal atmosphere.  I'm with him on ALL of that.  I just think that it's hard to get out of a corner after you've inadvertently painted yourself into it.

Sometimes...you just have to let the paint dry...and go for a stroll.  The paint isn't a wall.  And Mexico ain't paying for 'it' either way.  The music IS great.  What we don't need is that 'Eddy' prick always adding... ... ..."but..."

[SMiLE Brian]

You are forgiven!

[The LEGENDARY OSD]

You are forgiven!

Ditto for OFB. 

[SMiLE Brian]

That guy!

[kreen]

What's funny is that for all we know, Brian Wilson is fine with stuff like the recent DIA remake. He's certainly fine with Mike touring as the Beach Boys, or he would withhold the licence. We all act like BW is this paragon of artistic integrity, when he's been part of a lot of dodgy projects over the years, from Spanish Kokomo and lame eighties videos to the country record and the pointless Disney album.

[CenturyDeprived]

What's funny is that for all we know, Brian Wilson is fine with stuff like the recent DIA remake. He's certainly fine with Mike touring as the Beach Boys, or he would withhold the licence. We all act like BW is this paragon of artistic integrity, when he's been part of a lot of dodgy projects over the years, from Spanish Kokomo and lame eighties videos to the country record and the pointless Disney album.

Brian virtually never overtly says a bad thing about another person's music. Plus, I can't see Brian making the effort to listen to an iota of what Mike would release after Mike repeatedly dissed Brian's recordings and voice.

The worst I can think of Brian saying is that Student Demonstration Time wasn't his bag and didn't feel "BBs" to him, or something to that effect. Saying Brian is "fine" with it is probably a gross oversimplification; things are surely somewhat more complicated than that. Brian's shown to take inaction as a course of measure for many, many things in his life because the alternative is far more stressful. At minimum Brian probably wasn't fine about it the day he felt like he was fired and the LA Times published his thoughts on it.

Brian has indeed been involved in some questionable endevours over the years, but at least he makes the effort to truly make sincere art as well quite often, to this day. And like clockwork, if Mike's around, Brian then has to deal with mimed shotgun blasts to the head and snarkiness as a response to Brian's sincere artistic statements; what a great thing a sensitive genius needs to deal with, right?

[KDS]

I just want to make it perfectly clear that I've considered Michael "Eddy' Love to be pretty much an ongoing and complete moron... [and lord KNOWS ... I've tried and tried to cut that effin' prick a break LOADS of times]...since about 1967-68.  "sh*t on a stick" I even went after Smile Brian and the Old Fella Balanced in the water aboard an Ironing Board to try and get them to cut out just posting mere poop rather than giving valid reasons for always crapping on the follically abandoned old  fool...like a year ]and a 1/2] or so ago but ol' Eddy wouldn't quit his avalanche of sh*t covered cheese so finally I had to admit that the guy really is an unsalvageable, yet still colossal asshole/muther-f*cker who was only just plugging his upcoming 'book' sales and so I give the 2 fellas here the benefit of the doubt.  [It sure as sh*t never had ANYTHING to do with "the Music" ...'cause he's incapable of making or releasing anything valid which would inspire serious scrutiny.  All he has musically is Scott Totten saving the live performances from wreckage just like Carl used to.  Eddy hasn't got a clue how to pull that off.  That and Brian's memorable songs, melodies and vocal arrangements...some of which 'love-stinks' penned lyrics to.]

Let it be known that I thought his talents were grossly limited and that his prickish demeanor was 100% OFF-PUTTING long before that Trump disgustoid ever became a subject of global concern.

KDS is a real, live, and valid fan of the music.  No doubt.  No 2 ways about it.  The 'politicalization' of the Beach Boys body of work is not his main objective.  In fact I doubt it's even a tertiary concern.  He is all about enjoying the best of the best that music has to offer in a communal atmosphere.  I'm with him on ALL of that.  I just think that it's hard to get out of a corner after you've inadvertently painted yourself into it.

Sometimes...you just have to let the paint dry...and go for a stroll.  The paint isn't a wall.  And Mexico ain't paying for 'it' either way.  The music IS great.  What we don't need is that 'Eddy' prick always adding... ... ..."but..."

I appreciate that Lee. 

And, for my own sanity, I probably shouldn't involve myself into such conversations. 

[HeyJude]

What's funny is that for all we know, Brian Wilson is fine with stuff like the recent DIA remake. He's certainly fine with Mike touring as the Beach Boys, or he would withhold the licence. We all act like BW is this paragon of artistic integrity, when he's been part of a lot of dodgy projects over the years, from Spanish Kokomo and lame eighties videos to the country record and the pointless Disney album.

I think "not caring" or being ambivalent is a bit different from being "fine" with something, and I'm guessing with Brian it's much more the former than the latter.

Fans are surely more worked up about the DIA single and Mike in general than Brian is; of that I have little doubt. But let's not mistake Brian doing his own thing and not paying a whole lot of attention to what Mike's doing with Brian being "fine" with things.

As for the license, it is been discussed *at length* in multiple threads now that it's NOT as simple as Brian withholding the license if he had misgivings about Mike touring with the name. It's more complicated than that both in terms of Brian's attitude towards Mike using the name, and certainly more complicated than that in terms of corporate machinations to actually strip Mike of use of the name. Long story short, as has been discussed in other threads, any move to strip Mike of the license would likely be tied up in litigation for years and years.

I also think you're off base in terms of how fans look at Brian's artistic output. Even staunch Brian fans and supporters have noted the dreck and wonky stuff he has put out. Heck, I remember back in 2004 thinking even hardcore "Brianistas" were being a *little* too hard on the "Gettin' in Over My Head" album!

Really weird that someone would knock *Brian* for the Spanish version of "Kokomo." I'm pretty sure he had nothing to do with that other than showing up at the session, probably as some sort of weird conciliatory move in light of Brian having not been on the original version. There are plenty of questionable artistic decisions made by Brian over the years, though nothing you mention even ranks particularly high on that list. He has little to do with the Spanish "Kokomo" or "lame 80s videos" (whatever that entails), and the "Stars and Stripes" album was a group project undertaken after Brian attempted to corral the group into working on the Paley material. Brian does and should own the decision to do the Disney album, but I'd say that project was innocuous at absolute worst. I don't really put that album on the list of "bad decisions." I'd put it on the list of innocuous projects that simply wouldn't be *my* first choice.

[Ang Jones]

To me the most irritating things about Kokomo are: a) Mike going on about it all the time as if it's a big personal success story when several were involved with the writing of it, Carl's voice was a huge plus in its favour and it had the enormous advantage of being used in a film.  And b) Mike's party piece atlas lyrics featured. He's done this so many times it is so predictable. Talk about doing it again!

[HeyJude]

I've never particularly criticized "Kokomo." I've always said it's a catchy song and was a good shot in the arm for the band. They failed to capitalize on it, and the song was eventually overplayed (a rarity for a BB song post-1960-something).

But yeah, it's Mike's attitude about the song that unfortunately has colored the whole thing for fans. You just know the guy thinks it's the most brilliant thing he's ever done and he truly holds it right up there with "Good Vibrations", etc.

Seriously, can anyone picture, say, McCartney going *on and on* about "Say Say Say" or "Pipes of Peace" or even "Coming Up" and holding it up to the best work the Beatles ever did, and behind the scenes touting that he did it without Lennon's help, etc.

I've often said that Mike sometimes inexplicably does things that would make you think he actually is from a one-hit wonder band. I get it when a band has one well-known song and nothing else and has to talk about it endlessly and milk it. I also get it when lesser-known bands/artists name-drop to associate with those who are more famous.

But Mike talks about "Kokomo" sometimes as if he doesn't have a *huge* catalog of music (much of which he had a strong hand in) that is highly regarded. And, he name drops Stamos and "Full House" (and McCartney and the "Back in the USSR" story) as if he isn't already in one of the most famous bands ever. Weird.

[guitarfool2002]

In regards to what Mike contributed to Kokomo, here's food for thought...keep in mind this was said prior to Fall 2012 when C50 got scuppered. I wonder if the facts have been revised since then.

The reason why it is thirteen pages is because Mike has proclaimed himself the savoir of the Beach Boys at the expense of the other members.

What interview or press release are you referring to where Mike "proclaimed himself the savior of the Beach Boys"?

"Proclamation" might be a poor word choice but we need go no further than "The Beach Boys: An American Family" or the quote from the Capital bio: "In 1974 Mike Love’s concept album Endless Summer ignited a second generation of Beach Boys fans and stirred a tempest that rocked the music world."

Everyone knows that Endles Summer is a compilation of Brian Wilson tunes, with several lyricists.

Does it also bother you when it's said that Mike wrote the lyrics to teh Beach Boys' biggest single? People will still know that Brian wrote the tune.

Brian had exactly nothing to do with any aspect of "the Beach Boys biggest single"... and Mike wrote very little of the lyric.

[SMiLE Brian]

AGD won't get a lunch with Mike any time soon....

[Jay]

I am sure that Mike feels that whatever mistakes he has made, they pale in comparison to all the horrible behavior and bad decisions made by Brian Wilson over the years.

Actually, they do.

Oh, look what I just did. 

[guitarfool2002]

And, for my own sanity, I probably shouldn't involve myself into such conversations. 

Before bailing out, consider at least acknowledging that you launched into a rant about this place in reply to Rab's comments which you misread, along with Rab too. But that seems to be modus operandi, like clockwork - Launch into someone or something based on what they didn't even say. You did the same with me and an issue from 2015 with Runaway Dancer, which was clearly explained to you after you chose to distort and misrepresent what I actually said at the time 2 years later.

It goes with the territory, I guess. But it would be cool if you acknowledged your mistake to the person(s) whose words you either misread or distorted before launching a critique against them. It's not offering opinion if the words being opined on were never said.

Anyway, "just sayin'". 

[KDS]

And, for my own sanity, I probably shouldn't involve myself into such conversations. 

Before bailing out, consider at least acknowledging that you launched into a rant about this place in reply to Rab's comments which you misread, along with Rab too. But that seems to be modus operandi, like clockwork - Launch into someone or something based on what they didn't even say. You did the same with me and an issue from 2015 with Runaway Dancer, which was clearly explained to you after you chose to distort and misrepresent what I actually said at the time 2 years later.

It goes with the territory, I guess. But it would be cool if you acknowledged your mistake to the person(s) whose words you either misread or distorted before launching a critique against them. It's not offering opinion if the words being opined on were never said.

Anyway, "just sayin'". 

I will apologize to Rab, as I thought that "free lunch" comment was directed as me. 

As for the Runaway Dancer dust up you and I had.  I felt back then, that I acknowledged that I didn't have any real knowledge of EDM (nor do I care to), and you kept pushing back trying to somehow change my opinion of the song.

But, I'm willing to say it's water under the bridge, and Billy's recent health issue just goes to show that it's not worth butting heads with somebody over a song.  So, I'm willing to apologize, and let bygones be bygones (or, is it my gods be my gods?). 

I'm not bailing from the SSMB, but will distance myself from any Mike Love discussions that don't involve music. 

[Shady]

Rememberer Mike pretended to shoot himself when talking about "Summer's gone"? I really love a lot of his work but he lost me at that point.

[Jim V.]

Rememberer Mike pretended to shoot himself when talking about "Summer's gone"? I really love a lot of his work but he lost me at that point.

I won't say Mike "lost me" at any point, but I definitely feel what you are saying Shady...

And that's what I think KDS needs to realize. Mike either downplays or mocks what many people love about the group, in favor of what seems is his vision of a "populist", kinda faceless, no-nothing, lowest-common denominator type of band (or brand). And as far as playing concerts, there is nothing wrong with being populist. I saw Paul McCartney recently, and he played hit after hit after hit, sprinkling in some other great but lesser known stuff. Same with shows from The Who and Guns N' Roses that I had seen within the last few years. They gave the people what they wanted for the most part, but also sprinkled in newer material (in GNRs place) and other oddities (in both bands cases). But when these groups would go in the studio and record, they would be adventurous, sometimes to the point of ridiculousness (on Axl's part), whereas Mike, as evidenced by the fact that not only did he seemingly think "Summer's Gone" wasn't the greatest idea, but he demonstrated his opinion in front of a freakin' journalist! Are you kidding me?

Now sure, one can say, "hey, it's just Mike's opinion, which he's entitled to." But the thing that gets me is it rarely seems to be about quality to Mike. It's more about who wrote it, who it appeals to, how much it sells, and how high it charts (unless it's a number 3 album where he didn't have things go exactly as he would want. Then he downplays the importance).

And then to boot, the way he talks about Brian is just disrespectful. It is. There's really nothing else to say about that. Brian speaks well of Mike and Mike returns the favor by saying Brian's controlled, etc.

Now, at the same time, I don't think the man is the worst person ever. When he puts something new out, I buy it. I bought a compilation CD that had "Almost Summer" on it just to own an official CD with the song on it. I have the ESQ CD entitled The Boys Of Summer to have "Cool Head, Warm Heart" and "Love Like In Fairytales" (along with Brian's "Spirit of Rock and Roll"). I even.....*gulp*....bought a digital copy of the new "Do It Again." Though mainly it's to encourage him to have the guts to put out new material. And though I want The Beach Boys to reunite (Brian, Al, Mike, Dave, Blondie, Bruce) I understand that Mike doesn't necessarily owe that to me. However where that becomes sticky is that he essentially quit the group in 2012 so he could go back to full time touring under that very same name without Brian and Al.

Yes, maybe guitarfool comes on a little strong, he's very passionate about BWs work. And to be honest, some of the things coming from some of the people in the Beach Boys internet world against Brian, Melinda and their family is fucking disgusting, and I think that this is the reason why he sometimes may react against the horribleness of these people. And this is stuff coming from people in or around Mike's camp.

So I don't know if you read all this KDS, but I want you to understand that a lot of us are not OSD. I still love a lot of the music Mike plays a part in. I just showed that I still will support his new music, even if most of it's pretty shitty. However, people like myself have just been 'round long enough to have seen this movie before. And unlike certain "insiders" who may have traded objectivity for access, we just keep seeing this guy do things that aren't cool, and we will speak on it.

[clack]

I am sure that Mike feels that whatever mistakes he has made, they pale in comparison to all the horrible behavior and bad decisions made by Brian Wilson over the years.

Actually, they do.

Oh, look what I just did. 

Mike had done worse things than offering drugs to his 10 year old daughter?

[KDS]

That's fine, Jim, and you're entitled to your opinion. 

And I'll admit, there's plenty Mike does that I'm not a fan of (ie. the 2005 lawsuit, Pisces Brothers consistent presence in BB setlists, the new version of Do It Again). 

I consider myself to be an passionate about the music of The Beach Boys, and their members, as the next guy.  Which is why, like I told Guitarfool, I'm strictly staying with the musical side of things here, as that's what drew me to this band in the first place. 

[Jim V.]

That's fine, Jim, and you're entitled to your opinion. 

And I'll admit, there's plenty Mike does that I'm not a fan of (ie. the 2005 lawsuit, Pisces Brothers consistent presence in BB setlists, the new version of Do It Again). 

I consider myself to be an passionate about the music of The Beach Boys, and their members, as the next guy.  Which is why, like I told Guitarfool, I'm strictly staying with the musical side of things here, as that's what drew me to this band in the first place. 

But here's the thing KDS, how could you be passionate about the members if you don't really have an opinion? It doesn't bug you that this guy has sabotaged the fact that we could've gotten more official Beach Boys music from a willing Brian Wilson, along with Mike Love and Al Jardine, all so he could go tour in Bumfuck, USA with John Stamos and be the big star, rather than have to deal with that darned Melinda?

And you don't have an opinion on the fact that there are people on the other board who have willingly spread LIES about Brian, his wife and his family, even though the claim to be a non-biased observer? That gets me.

Trust me, the music is ultimately the thing to me, but I can not avoid the bad taste that I've gotten from the Mike Love circle. It's crude, mean spirited and childish. Do I think Mike ultimately cares about Brian? Yeah, but I think the thing is that it's not only Brian that's changed so much over the past 50 plus years. It is Mike who has as well, and I don't think that he realizes that. He's grown into quite a different person than he was, and I don't think he realizes this, yet expects Brian to be the same as he was. And lastly, if this "inside baseball" stuff bugs you so much, why comment on it? There are quite a few topics on this board that I have little interest in and therefore, I don't comment in them. However, it seems like this one does interest you, because you do bring this up a lot on this board, and a few times on the other board, which you seem to praise as "fairer" despite the presence of posters who have variously demonstrated bigoted, white nationalist, misogynistic, and other horrific behaviors. So it's weird. Just my opinion.

[Stephen W. Desper]

Does Mike Love realize that he is despised, loathed, or (in some cases) hated by millions of music fans? What is this guy's level of awareness that so many people dislike him?

COMMENT to Smile4ever:

He realizes it all the way to the bank.  ~swd

[HeyJude]

To be fair, there are plenty of insanely rich rock stars who *don't* have any significant contingent of fans who loathe them or otherwise vastly disapprove of the things they do or say.

[HeyJude]

I am sure that Mike feels that whatever mistakes he has made, they pale in comparison to all the horrible behavior and bad decisions made by Brian Wilson over the years.

Actually, they do.

Oh, look what I just did. 

Mike had done worse things than offering drugs to his 10 year old daughter?

How would anyone here possibly know?

It makes Mike and anyone who would defend him look pretty bad when they have to pluck one story, one which is 100% unrelated to *anything* to do with the band, and, um, I'm not sure what the point is?

I don't think much of anyone in that band, or much of anybody in the "industry", would particularly want anyone shaking out the cobwebs of their lives and trying to have a "Who did the worst thing?" contest.

I'm pretty sure almost all of the even over-the-top criticisms of Mike on this board have usually related to something pertaining to the band and/or the music.

I've heard pretty gawdawful stories about many members of the band, so I doubt any of them want to start throwing *those* types of stones.

[kreen]

What's funny is that for all we know, Brian Wilson is fine with stuff like the recent DIA remake. He's certainly fine with Mike touring as the Beach Boys, or he would withhold the licence. We all act like BW is this paragon of artistic integrity, when he's been part of a lot of dodgy projects over the years, from Spanish Kokomo and lame eighties videos to the country record and the pointless Disney album.

Brian virtually never overtly says a bad thing about another person's music. Plus, I can't see Brian making the effort to listen to an iota of what Mike would release after Mike repeatedly dissed Brian's recordings and voice.

The worst I can think of Brian saying is that Student Demonstration Time wasn't his bag and didn't feel "BBs" to him, or something to that effect. Saying Brian is "fine" with it is probably a gross oversimplification; things are surely somewhat more complicated than that. Brian's shown to take inaction as a course of measure for many, many things in his life because the alternative is far more stressful. At minimum Brian probably wasn't fine about it the day he felt like he was fired and the LA Times published his thoughts on it.

Brian has indeed been involved in some questionable endevours over the years, but at least he makes the effort to truly make sincere art as well quite often, to this day. And like clockwork, if Mike's around, Brian then has to deal with mimed shotgun blasts to the head and snarkiness as a response to Brian's sincere artistic statements; what a great thing a sensitive genius needs to deal with, right?

But see, we don't KNOW what Brian Wilson thinks about anything, because the man basically no longer gives interviews. Remember all of those crazy interviews from the sixties to the early nineties -- basically the pre-Melinda era -- where Brian Wilson, sometimes under the influence of some substance or other, would go into the craziest, most revealing, sometimes painfully honest stories and revelations about himself or his music? That man is gone. Now we have a creature of silence mixed with PR. Does he even KNOW Mike Love just released a new version of DIA? Has he even been told? Would he care anyway?

I love Summer's Gone, but Mike Love obviously thinks it's too depressing. But what does Brian Wilson think of Daybreaks Over the Ocean or the lyrics to Spring Vacation? Again, we don't know. So personally, not only do I find it more interesting to know Mike Love's opinion, I find it more normal and, well, HUMAN that he does have opinions and expresses them.

It's easy never to say anything douchy when you never say anything...

As for Kokomo, isn't it well established who wrote what? Mike Love contributed the "Aruba, Jamaica" section. It's obviously not the part that makes the song -- it's not one of the hooks -- but it's still a contribution. If Kokomo had been written by Brian Wilson it would be praised as the greatest comeback ever.

[Jay]

Brian actually wrote the lyrics to Spring Vacation.