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Author Topic: Mike and Bruce Tour 2016  (Read 107724 times)
Cam Mott
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« Reply #275 on: May 05, 2016, 08:16:53 PM »

That started to change over time especially when Scott took over.

I bet this is more it than anything speculated so far.
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« Reply #276 on: May 05, 2016, 08:17:37 PM »

Scott Totten taking over the reins of the Mike and Bruce show in 2008 was to the band's benefit; he was able to build upon the progression that Chris Farmer oversaw as band leader and the band ended up being better for it. Getting rid of Mike Kowalski was a WELCOME change from where I sit. They went from being dire (1998-2003) to serious competition (2004-08) to very close to Brian's group (2009-now). (I think) Scott said himself that Mike picks the songs for the gigs.

I don't doubt for one minute that Brian inspired Mike and Bruce (and by proxy, Scott as band leader) to greater heights as a touring band. They should keep racing up that ladder. Both bands put on excellent shows for their respective markets.
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« Reply #277 on: May 05, 2016, 08:18:31 PM »




...yes the constant personal bashing of Mike does get old, and yes, I have spoken to that previously, when it's gone from justified criticism to attacking just for the sake of doing so. So why attack Brian in order to prove that point?

Well, Billy I did my best at trying to explain it above, and obviously I didn't succeed. I hoped you would understand, and I will try my best to not repeat everything again.

I tried to prompt change because I didn't feel the moderators were doing anything to solve the problem, and I think it's a huge problem. I guess I put too much faith in the posters. I hoped they would realize how they feel when Brian is criticized and realize how others feel when other Beach boys are criticized, and stop doing it. But, I guess I was wrong. I now realize that too many posters on the Smiley Smile actually enjoy criticizing everything about Mike Love. And, sadly, they know they can get away with it.

I have a serious question for you, Billy. If somebody took SmileBrian and OSD's posts, and re-posted them word for word, but substituted Brian's name for Mike's, would it be tolerated by the moderators? You'll probably ask why anybody would want to do that? To prove a point maybe?

You are quick to criticize me and my posts, calling it/them "shtick" and calling it "old". Is it older than the Mike Love bashing, or is it a response to the Mike Love bashing? You obviously don't agree with what I'm doing...are you happy with the way the board's going? Other than ignoring "attacking for the sake of attacking", do you have any others suggestions to solve the problem?
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« Reply #278 on: May 05, 2016, 08:19:35 PM »

Hi Sheriff John Stone,
The perspective you explain in your above post is one I can understand, though I don't fully agree. I think that it's a false equivalency between Brian Wilson and Mike Love. But I agree that the constant extensive discussions of the flaws of Mike Love can be boring, at the least.
The thing is that, if you're trying to, sarcastically, make a point about Mike Love bashing by Brian Wilson bashing, it's really hard for people to understand that's what you're doing because the equivalency is so off. It's just not analogous.
If what you really want is for people to tone down or lessen the Mike Love bashing, then it may be more effective to just ask. That may not be effective, but it would have a better chance than just baffling everyone.
Anyway, I'm pleased to understand you better.
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Sheriff John Stone
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« Reply #279 on: May 05, 2016, 08:37:19 PM »

Hi Sheriff John Stone,
The perspective you explain in your above post is one I can understand, though I don't fully agree. I think that it's a false equivalency between Brian Wilson and Mike Love. But I agree that the constant extensive discussions of the flaws of Mike Love can be boring, at the least.
The thing is that, if you're trying to, sarcastically, make a point about Mike Love bashing by Brian Wilson bashing, it's really hard for people to understand that's what you're doing because the equivalency is so off. It's just not analogous.
If what you really want is for people to tone down or lessen the Mike Love bashing, then it may be more effective to just ask. That may not be effective, but it would have a better chance than just baffling everyone.
Anyway, I'm pleased to understand you better.


I admit it's flawed and far from perfect, but it's the best I could come up with. For several YEARS now I and several others have been calling for an end to the, in your correct words, "constant extensive discussions of the flaws of Mike Love". As you can see, these attempts have fallen on deaf ears. You know how it works in most cases. First you ask, then you yell, then you're sarcastic (?), and then you have to go for something that makes others "feel". I tried 'em all.

I don't know if you're aware of this but Scott Totten and I believe John Cowsill even came on the board and expressed dismay at some of the Mike bashing. Didn't matter. But, you're right, as musicians, as songwriters, even as Beach Boys, Mike and Brian are not "equivalent". But, again, when it comes to discussion of "flaws", and bashing and personal attacks, wouldn't it be better to view them both as human beings. Flawed, yes, but still real people. And, THAT makes them equal.

« Last Edit: May 07, 2016, 04:22:52 PM by Sheriff John Stone » Logged
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« Reply #280 on: May 05, 2016, 08:43:40 PM »




...yes the constant personal bashing of Mike does get old, and yes, I have spoken to that previously, when it's gone from justified criticism to attacking just for the sake of doing so. So why attack Brian in order to prove that point?

Well, Billy I did my best at trying to explain it above, and obviously I didn't succeed. I hoped you would understand, and I will try my best to not repeat everything again.

I tried to prompt change because I didn't feel the moderators were doing anything to solve the problem, and I think it's a huge problem. I guess I put too much faith in the posters. I hoped they would realize how they feel when Brian is criticized and realize how others feel when other Beach boys are criticized, and stop doing it. But, I guess I was wrong. I now realize that too many posters on the Smiley Smile actually enjoy criticizing everything about Mike Love. And, sadly, they know they can get away with it.

I have a serious question for you, Billy. If somebody took SmileBrian and OSD's posts, and re-posted them word for word, but substituted Brian's name for Mike's, would it be tolerated by the moderators? You'll probably ask why anybody would want to do that? To prove a point maybe?

You are quick to criticize me and my posts, calling it/them "shtick" and calling it "old". Is it older than the Mike Love bashing, or is it a response to the Mike Love bashing? You obviously don't agree with what I'm doing...are you happy with the way the board's going? Other than ignoring "attacking for the sake of attacking", do you have any others suggestions to solve the problem?

For YEARS we have read your drivel about Brian. All of a sudden you come out and say it's all an act? Are you flipping kidding me? Read your post history man, there is what obviously appears to be a deep irritation for those around Brian, for his solo career (hell, look at what you just wrote about Brian's solo career a page or so back). Here's what I'd love to know: if you care so much about Brian, would you want him reading your post history? HELL NO. If I spent a day picking out negative comments about Brian from your post history I'd probably have a document longer than War and Peace. Do you think Brian would understand your above explanation for years of negativity aimed at him and his wife? HELL NO. It's beyond irrational.

Mike comments on Brian's weight. Mike comments on Brian's prescription drug regimen. Mike comments on Brian's past drug use. Mike claims Brian is controlled. Mike made a dig at Brian's solo single (a song he didn't even take the time to listen to). Mike recently made a negative comment about Brian's current singing voice. All of this in the last few years, and all for MILLIONS and potentially BILLIONS to see.

Brian on the other hand has only had nice things to say about Mike to the media.

A five year old could figure out why there is a lot of animosity toward Mike and not Brian. Yet we're the bad guys for defending Brian? We're the bad guys for pointing out these tactless comments? You're trying to save the board by pointlessly berating Brian, those around him, and his own music career? I don't buy it for a second. And if it is true, I suggest growing up and realizing that stooping to posting in a way you supposedly resent isn't the way to solve problems around here.
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« Reply #281 on: May 05, 2016, 08:59:11 PM »




...yes the constant personal bashing of Mike does get old, and yes, I have spoken to that previously, when it's gone from justified criticism to attacking just for the sake of doing so. So why attack Brian in order to prove that point?

Well, Billy I did my best at trying to explain it above, and obviously I didn't succeed. I hoped you would understand, and I will try my best to not repeat everything again.

I tried to prompt change because I didn't feel the moderators were doing anything to solve the problem, and I think it's a huge problem. I guess I put too much faith in the posters. I hoped they would realize how they feel when Brian is criticized and realize how others feel when other Beach boys are criticized, and stop doing it. But, I guess I was wrong. I now realize that too many posters on the Smiley Smile actually enjoy criticizing everything about Mike Love. And, sadly, they know they can get away with it.

I have a serious question for you, Billy. If somebody took SmileBrian and OSD's posts, and re-posted them word for word, but substituted Brian's name for Mike's, would it be tolerated by the moderators? You'll probably ask why anybody would want to do that? To prove a point maybe?

You are quick to criticize me and my posts, calling it/them "shtick" and calling it "old". Is it older than the Mike Love bashing, or is it a response to the Mike Love bashing? You obviously don't agree with what I'm doing...are you happy with the way the board's going? Other than ignoring "attacking for the sake of attacking", do you have any others suggestions to solve the problem?

For YEARS we have read your drivel about Brian. All of a sudden you come out and say it's all an act? Are you flipping kidding me? Read your post history man, there is what obviously appears to be a deep irritation for those around Brian, for his solo career (hell, look at what you just wrote about Brian's solo career a page or so back). Here's what I'd love to know: if you care so much about Brian, would you want him reading your post history? HELL NO. If I spent a day picking out negative comments about Brian from your post history I'd probably have a document longer than War and Peace. Do you think Brian would understand your above explanation for years of negativity aimed at him and his wife? HELL NO. It's beyond irrational.

Mike comments on Brian's weight. Mike comments on Brian's prescription drug regimen. Mike comments on Brian's past drug use. Mike claims Brian is controlled. Mike made a dig at Brian's solo single (a song he didn't even take the time to listen to). Mike recently made a negative comment about Brian's current singing voice. All of this in the last few years, and all for MILLIONS and potentially BILLIONS to see.

Brian on the other hand has only had nice things to say about Mike to the media.

A five year old could figure out why there is a lot of animosity toward Mike and not Brian. Yet we're the bad guys for defending Brian? We're the bad guys for pointing out these tactless comments? You're trying to save the board by pointlessly berating Brian, those around him, and his own music career? I don't buy it for a second. And if it is true, I suggest growing up and realizing that stooping to posting in a way you supposedly resent isn't the way to solve problems around here.

Mike, unfortunately, is in a class by himself when it comes to putting his foot in his mouth, and repeatedly berating his cousin, who just happens to be the person who arguably has the most sympathetic comeback kid story in pop music history. There's a *reason* why fans talk about actions of Mike's that bug them in a way that they don't talk about actions by other members of this band ... because nobody in this band consistently acts like Mike. When Dennis acted badly, and he certainly did, the flipside was that Dennis also did and said many, many truly selfless things that helped to counteract how people might feel about him as a person.

Mike's reputation, and the things people say about him, didn't come out of nowhere. The only solution that SJS suggests is that everyone who has issue with Mike should just be muzzled. Or partially muzzled, or that SJS or others should decide on the barometer of which people must stop talking about the negative actions of Mike, which ironically and unfortunately, Mike continues to add to through the years. I can understand wanting to muzzle people who are simple anti-Mike trolls, as I detest extremism... but getting super-defensive about rational discussion is pointless. People who feel like their words are attempted to be muzzled are just going to be motivated to speak more.

I'm very happy to give praise where I feel praise is due, and I praise and go out of my way to point out Mike's positive contributions to people in my own personal life, time and time again. I did it just this past weekend. Because I feel it's the right thing to do, and I don't like to see Mike thought of by others as a worthless piece of sh*t, because I don't think that of him. The flipside is that when he does stuff that I believe is truly, TRULY, deeply, profoundly not cool, time and time again, it's hard to just shut up about it if you are a fan and want to talk about what's on your mind in relation to the band, as all of us nerds on this board do.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2016, 09:18:48 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
rab2591
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« Reply #282 on: May 05, 2016, 09:21:40 PM »




...yes the constant personal bashing of Mike does get old, and yes, I have spoken to that previously, when it's gone from justified criticism to attacking just for the sake of doing so. So why attack Brian in order to prove that point?

Well, Billy I did my best at trying to explain it above, and obviously I didn't succeed. I hoped you would understand, and I will try my best to not repeat everything again.

I tried to prompt change because I didn't feel the moderators were doing anything to solve the problem, and I think it's a huge problem. I guess I put too much faith in the posters. I hoped they would realize how they feel when Brian is criticized and realize how others feel when other Beach boys are criticized, and stop doing it. But, I guess I was wrong. I now realize that too many posters on the Smiley Smile actually enjoy criticizing everything about Mike Love. And, sadly, they know they can get away with it.

I have a serious question for you, Billy. If somebody took SmileBrian and OSD's posts, and re-posted them word for word, but substituted Brian's name for Mike's, would it be tolerated by the moderators? You'll probably ask why anybody would want to do that? To prove a point maybe?

You are quick to criticize me and my posts, calling it/them "shtick" and calling it "old". Is it older than the Mike Love bashing, or is it a response to the Mike Love bashing? You obviously don't agree with what I'm doing...are you happy with the way the board's going? Other than ignoring "attacking for the sake of attacking", do you have any others suggestions to solve the problem?

For YEARS we have read your drivel about Brian. All of a sudden you come out and say it's all an act? Are you flipping kidding me? Read your post history man, there is what obviously appears to be a deep irritation for those around Brian, for his solo career (hell, look at what you just wrote about Brian's solo career a page or so back). Here's what I'd love to know: if you care so much about Brian, would you want him reading your post history? HELL NO. If I spent a day picking out negative comments about Brian from your post history I'd probably have a document longer than War and Peace. Do you think Brian would understand your above explanation for years of negativity aimed at him and his wife? HELL NO. It's beyond irrational.

Mike comments on Brian's weight. Mike comments on Brian's prescription drug regimen. Mike comments on Brian's past drug use. Mike claims Brian is controlled. Mike made a dig at Brian's solo single (a song he didn't even take the time to listen to). Mike recently made a negative comment about Brian's current singing voice. All of this in the last few years, and all for MILLIONS and potentially BILLIONS to see.

Brian on the other hand has only had nice things to say about Mike to the media.

A five year old could figure out why there is a lot of animosity toward Mike and not Brian. Yet we're the bad guys for defending Brian? We're the bad guys for pointing out these tactless comments? You're trying to save the board by pointlessly berating Brian, those around him, and his own music career? I don't buy it for a second. And if it is true, I suggest growing up and realizing that stooping to posting in a way you supposedly resent isn't the way to solve problems around here.

Mike, unfortunately, is in a class by himself when it comes to putting his foot in his mouth, and repeatedly berating his cousin, who just happens to be the person who arguably has the most sympathetic comeback kid story in pop music history. There's a *reason* why fans talk about actions of Mike's that bug them in a way that they don't talk about actions by other members of this... because nobody in this band consistently acts like Mike. When Dennis acted badly, and he certainly did, the flipside was that Dennis also did and said many, many truly selfless things that helped to counteract how people might feel about him as a person.

Mike's reputation, and the things people say about him, didn't come out of nowhere. The only solution that SJS suggests is that everyone who has issue with Mike should just be muzzled. Or partially muzzled, or that SJS or others should decide on the barometer of which people must stop talking about the negative actions of Mike, which ironically and unfortunately, Mike continues to add to through the years. I can understand wanting to muzzle people who are simple anti-Mike trolls, as I detest extremism... but getting super-defensive about rational discussion is pointless. People who feel like their words are attempted to be muzzled are just going to be motivated to speak more.

I'm very happy to give praise where I feel praise is due, and I praise and go out of my way to point out Mike's positive contributions to people in my own personal life, time and time again. I did it just this past weekend. Because I feel it's the right thing to do, and I don't like to see Mike thought of by others as a worthless piece of sh*t, because I don't think that of him. The flipside is that when he does stuff that I believe is truly, TRULY, deeply, profoundly not cool, time and time again, it's hard to just shut up about it if you are a fan and want to talk about what's on your mind in relation to the band, as all of us nerds on this board do.

Very well put. And to add to that, I want to stress that when Mike does reach out and explain his story (not Brian's story, not repetitious "drug" talk) you can really understand his actions and where he's coming from. I was really impressed with that interview last year (I can't remember, but I think it was rock cellar magazine); though I still have a dour opinion of the man, I can better understand his side because he opened up about himself and not others.

One thing that I forgot to touch upon in my last post: I love that this all comes back to the moderation here. SJS, you claim you "tried to prompt change because I didn't feel the moderators were doing anything to solve the problem" - yet you have gone off on Brian for years. You have been posting vitriol about the man (a man you supposedly care about more than your own family and friends) ever since I can remember...long long before any hint of complaints were being made about the moderation here. Yet that is your excuse to bash Brian? Literally unbelievable.
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« Reply #283 on: May 05, 2016, 11:05:46 PM »

One thing I'm really curious about is these Noven Jaisi videos. Agd swore on his authority that they were entirely fan made - he went as far as to be very mocking about how right he was - and it turns out now that they are official? Doe was also saying he had nothing to do with Mike's book. If think he lied about a lot of stuff...its very curious.

Just look
https://youtu.be/DwacdCTw3ZI
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« Reply #284 on: May 05, 2016, 11:08:01 PM »

Sheriff, if I'm reading your post correctly, you're saying that all of your posts dripping with passive aggressive vitriol about Brian are done to show people a double standard? So you come to the most popular Beach Boys forum and make troll posts about Brian just to prove a point about Mike?

For months you mocked No Pier Pressure.
I've read your negative outlooks on BWPS that you've shared ad nauseam on this board for years.
You claim Brian is coached for interviews.
You claim that Brian didn't write the recent excerpt for his book (he may not have, but you don't at all know that).
You talk about his mental illness like it's nothing.
So much in your post history is negativity toward Melinda and Brian.

Yet you supposedly love Brian and care about him? You hope others can change their ways about attacking a Beach Boy!?

If you see Mike being treated unfairly, then make rational arguments to shut people up! My mind has been changed in the past about Mike because people did the adult thing and took the time to explain their side. Hell, Mike did an interview last year that helped me understand him a bit better - because he took the time to open up and explain himself. I don't understand how continuously berating Brian and his career is any way teaching people a lesson about how to treat Mike. If anything your posts have helped fuel the fire that has consumed this place in the last few years.

I was going to post a long response, but you touched on pretty much every post I was going to make.

I will add the following...

The things about BWPS and NPP are just opinions, and I cannot knock somebody for them (even though I disagree).  The rest, I agree with completely.  And for the record, I happen to be respect Mike artistically, and  yes the constant personal bashing of Mike does get old, and yes, I have spoken to that previously, when it's gone from justified criticism to attacking just for the sake of doing so. So why attack Brian in order to prove that point?

I'd like to third this point. 
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« Reply #285 on: May 05, 2016, 11:16:24 PM »

Scott Totten taking over the reins of the Mike and Bruce show in 2008 was to the band's benefit; he was able to build upon the progression that Chris Farmer oversaw as band leader and the band ended up being better for it. Getting rid of Mike Kowalski was a WELCOME change from where I sit. They went from being dire (1998-2003) to serious competition (2004-08) to very close to Brian's group (2009-now). (I think) Scott said himself that Mike picks the songs for the gigs.

I don't doubt for one minute that Brian inspired Mike and Bruce (and by proxy, Scott as band leader) to greater heights as a touring band. They should keep racing up that ladder. Both bands put on excellent shows for their respective markets.

I've never seen the Mike and Bruce show, but from reading reviews over the years, I have a similar impression:  they have drastically stepped up their game, and there does seem to be an arms race of sort going on between them and Brian.  The fans benefit.  We essentially have two high-quality touring versions of the BB's. I'd love to have them all together like they were in 2012, but barring that from happening again, BB's fans are really in an excellent situation right now. 

If anybody is wondering why I haven't seen them, as I mentioned earlier in this thread, I seriously considered seeing Mike and Bruce recently in Japan, and decided against it only because the ticket prices were expensive, I had already shelled out for Brian's tour, and Mike and Bruce have tended to play shorter and less adventurous sets here in Japan (compare the great HK setlist to the ones in Japan, and you'll see what I mean).  I'll probably go see them anyway in the future, but I'd REALLY be inclined to do so if they would play longer sets here.  The current incarnation of the touring band seems like a great combo, and it's also an interesting contrast with Brian's more orchestral approach.
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« Reply #286 on: May 06, 2016, 03:25:30 AM »

One thing I'm really curious about is these Noven Jaisi videos. Agd swore on his authority that they were entirely fan made - he went as far as to be very mocking about how right he was - and it turns out now that they are official? Doe was also saying he had nothing to do with Mike's book. If think he lied about a lot of stuff...its very curious.

Just look
https://youtu.be/DwacdCTw3ZI

Thanks for sharing that video.  Another of those Jaisi videos, always posted to Mike's pages and sites.  In this one we hear the Sir George Martin quote about "this band can do it."  The problem is, he was talking about Brian Wilson's band at the BW Tribute show back in 2001, not the band implied in the video.  Gads, the minute someone dies, they seem to be misquoted or misrepresented.  To those who've been paying attention, it's about as believable as SJS having been doing a loving "put on" all these years attacking Brian.  It would be laughable if it weren't all so convoluted and creepy.
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« Reply #287 on: May 06, 2016, 03:49:24 AM »

I just watched the video. Al, Blondie, Van Dyke Parks. They all speak SO well of Mike. I bet they're delighted to be part of this fan(?!) video advertising the man they love so well and his band.

Excuse me, I need to get a drink of water. I nearly choked on my tongue - it was firmly in cheek as I typed this.
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« Reply #288 on: May 06, 2016, 03:57:17 AM »

Same here Ang, shameless editing..... Tongue
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And production aside, Iíd so much rather hear a 14 year old David Marks shred some guitar on Chug-a-lug than hear a 51 year old Mike Love sing about bangin some chick in a swimming pool.-rab2591
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« Reply #289 on: May 06, 2016, 04:09:15 AM »

Same here Ang, shameless editing..... Tongue

Haven't seen so much irony verging on downright sarcasm since Gene Kelly said 'Dignity. Always dignity' in Singing in the Rain after clips of vaudevillian silly behaviour.
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« Reply #290 on: May 06, 2016, 04:14:10 AM »

One thing I'm really curious about is these Noven Jaisi videos. Agd swore on his authority that they were entirely fan made - he went as far as to be very mocking about how right he was - and it turns out now that they are official? Doe was also saying he had nothing to do with Mike's book. If think he lied about a lot of stuff...its very curious.

Just look
https://youtu.be/DwacdCTw3ZI

Do you know the video being used now in concert is the video discussed in November 2015? Which one of these fan videos is the "official" video being used as an intro at the BBs' concerts? Is it one of those on Noven's Youtube page? Is it on a Facebook page?  Has anyone one seen the video at concert?   

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« Reply #291 on: May 06, 2016, 05:10:04 AM »

I'm sorry, but if palm trees and videos "detract from the artistic foundation of the songs," that just sounds like trying to find something / anything to poke at.  

How many bands do video boards or have props on stage?  Does is really detract from the songs?  

For the touring band, the props and videos work perfectly well for the shows they put on....They create an atmosphere for concert-goers who pay to listen to classic tunes, dance, and have fun...most bands do this. I'm not knocking it, I'm just saying that a certain sect of fans find that it pegs the music into one stereotype of fun-in-the-sun...And thus it detracts from the experience that those people want to have.

Brian's band doesn't feel the need to use props or videos much because many of the people who attend their concerts are there for a deeper experience than nostalgia or fun. It is why those at a Brian concert would probably be more inclined to give a standing ovation to 'Surfs Up' than 'Kokomo'. I apologize if my opinion is offending you, I'm really not trying to find things to poke at, I'm just telling it how I see it.

The proof is really in this question I'll pose here:

How many people get emotional, truly shedding a tear or two, being overwhelmed by the sheer emotional force of the music at a Brian Wilson show vs. the same happening at a M&B show? I have gotten choked up more than once at Brian shows. I honestly think that a bunch of cheesy props might get in the way of the emotional synapses firing in the same way if I were to attend a M&B show (which I admittedly haven't attended in a decade +).

I'm not saying that people aren't capable of being touched at M&B shows, but that the atmosphere there with things like props + cheerleaders + Stamos is likely to lend itself to the music being less of an emotional whopper to people in a general, overall sense - relatively speaking.

Speaking for myself, I was almost moved when I saw M&B.  When they were doing The Warmth of the Sun, I felt truly emotional and spiritual.  It was a great moment until........I caught a glimpse of that palm tree on the stage. 

HAPPY FRIDAY

 Grin
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« Reply #292 on: May 06, 2016, 05:22:02 AM »

I'm sorry, but if palm trees and videos "detract from the artistic foundation of the songs," that just sounds like trying to find something / anything to poke at.  

How many bands do video boards or have props on stage?  Does is really detract from the songs?  

For the touring band, the props and videos work perfectly well for the shows they put on....They create an atmosphere for concert-goers who pay to listen to classic tunes, dance, and have fun...most bands do this. I'm not knocking it, I'm just saying that a certain sect of fans find that it pegs the music into one stereotype of fun-in-the-sun...And thus it detracts from the experience that those people want to have.

Brian's band doesn't feel the need to use props or videos much because many of the people who attend their concerts are there for a deeper experience than nostalgia or fun. It is why those at a Brian concert would probably be more inclined to give a standing ovation to 'Surfs Up' than 'Kokomo'. I apologize if my opinion is offending you, I'm really not trying to find things to poke at, I'm just telling it how I see it.

The proof is really in this question I'll pose here:

How many people get emotional, truly shedding a tear or two, being overwhelmed by the sheer emotional force of the music at a Brian Wilson show vs. the same happening at a M&B show? I have gotten choked up more than once at Brian shows. I honestly think that a bunch of cheesy props might get in the way of the emotional synapses firing in the same way if I were to attend a M&B show (which I admittedly haven't attended in a decade +).

I'm not saying that people aren't capable of being touched at M&B shows, but that the atmosphere there with things like props + cheerleaders + Stamos is likely to lend itself to the music being less of an emotional whopper to people in a general, overall sense - relatively speaking.

Speaking for myself, I was almost moved when I saw M&B.  When they were doing The Warmth of the Sun, I felt truly emotional and spiritual.  It was a great moment until........I caught a glimpse of that palm tree on the stage. 

HAPPY FRIDAY

 Grin

(spit take)
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« Reply #293 on: May 06, 2016, 05:40:23 AM »

I'm sorry, but if palm trees and videos "detract from the artistic foundation of the songs," that just sounds like trying to find something / anything to poke at.  

How many bands do video boards or have props on stage?  Does is really detract from the songs?  

For the touring band, the props and videos work perfectly well for the shows they put on....They create an atmosphere for concert-goers who pay to listen to classic tunes, dance, and have fun...most bands do this. I'm not knocking it, I'm just saying that a certain sect of fans find that it pegs the music into one stereotype of fun-in-the-sun...And thus it detracts from the experience that those people want to have.

Brian's band doesn't feel the need to use props or videos much because many of the people who attend their concerts are there for a deeper experience than nostalgia or fun. It is why those at a Brian concert would probably be more inclined to give a standing ovation to 'Surfs Up' than 'Kokomo'. I apologize if my opinion is offending you, I'm really not trying to find things to poke at, I'm just telling it how I see it.

The proof is really in this question I'll pose here:

How many people get emotional, truly shedding a tear or two, being overwhelmed by the sheer emotional force of the music at a Brian Wilson show vs. the same happening at a M&B show? I have gotten choked up more than once at Brian shows. I honestly think that a bunch of cheesy props might get in the way of the emotional synapses firing in the same way if I were to attend a M&B show (which I admittedly haven't attended in a decade +).

I'm not saying that people aren't capable of being touched at M&B shows, but that the atmosphere there with things like props + cheerleaders + Stamos is likely to lend itself to the music being less of an emotional whopper to people in a general, overall sense - relatively speaking.

Speaking for myself, I was almost moved when I saw M&B.  When they were doing The Warmth of the Sun, I felt truly emotional and spiritual.  It was a great moment until........I caught a glimpse of that palm tree on the stage. 

HAPPY FRIDAY

 Grin

Nice. Is it really difficult to understand that it is my opinion that one band focuses a lot on nostalgia (with the help of video boards that broadcast footage of cheerleaders and surfers, stage props such as palm trees and surf boards, etc) and the other band focuses on a more intimate atmosphere? Some fans like either one, or both.

I never said one couldn't be moved emotionally at a touring show, just that they seem to have a different atmosphere geared more towards fun. Brian shows tend to lean toward the heavier setlists and a more serious atmosphere. Fans of the latter tend to criticize the former for the stage props, cheerleaders, etc because they feel it detracts from the music...which was merely a logical answer to your initial question.

Regardless, happy Friday indeed Grin to all those going to upcoming shows from either band, enjoy!
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« Reply #294 on: May 06, 2016, 05:41:59 AM »

I'm sorry, but if palm trees and videos "detract from the artistic foundation of the songs," that just sounds like trying to find something / anything to poke at.  

How many bands do video boards or have props on stage?  Does is really detract from the songs?  

For the touring band, the props and videos work perfectly well for the shows they put on....They create an atmosphere for concert-goers who pay to listen to classic tunes, dance, and have fun...most bands do this. I'm not knocking it, I'm just saying that a certain sect of fans find that it pegs the music into one stereotype of fun-in-the-sun...And thus it detracts from the experience that those people want to have.

Brian's band doesn't feel the need to use props or videos much because many of the people who attend their concerts are there for a deeper experience than nostalgia or fun. It is why those at a Brian concert would probably be more inclined to give a standing ovation to 'Surfs Up' than 'Kokomo'. I apologize if my opinion is offending you, I'm really not trying to find things to poke at, I'm just telling it how I see it.

The proof is really in this question I'll pose here:

How many people get emotional, truly shedding a tear or two, being overwhelmed by the sheer emotional force of the music at a Brian Wilson show vs. the same happening at a M&B show? I have gotten choked up more than once at Brian shows. I honestly think that a bunch of cheesy props might get in the way of the emotional synapses firing in the same way if I were to attend a M&B show (which I admittedly haven't attended in a decade +).

I'm not saying that people aren't capable of being touched at M&B shows, but that the atmosphere there with things like props + cheerleaders + Stamos is likely to lend itself to the music being less of an emotional whopper to people in a general, overall sense - relatively speaking.

Speaking for myself, I was almost moved when I saw M&B.  When they were doing The Warmth of the Sun, I felt truly emotional and spiritual.  It was a great moment until........I caught a glimpse of that palm tree on the stage. 

HAPPY FRIDAY

 Grin

Nice. Is it really difficult to understand that it is my opinion that one band focuses a lot on nostalgia (with the help of video boards that broadcast footage of cheerleaders and surfers, stage props such as palm trees and surf boards, etc) and the other band focuses on a more intimate atmosphere? Some fans like either one, or both.

I never said one couldn't be moved emotionally at a touring show, just that they seem to have a different atmosphere geared more towards fun. Brian shows tend to lean toward the heavier setlists and a more serious atmosphere. Fans of the latter tend to criticize the former for the stage props, cheerleaders, etc because they feel it detracts from the music...which was merely a logical answer to your initial question.

Regardless, happy Friday indeed Grin to all those going to upcoming shows from either band, enjoy!

Lighten up, Rab.  I'm just having a little fun fun fun with you. 
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« Reply #295 on: May 06, 2016, 05:48:16 AM »

Lighten up, Rab.  I'm just having a little fun fun fun with you. 

When some loud braggart tries to put me down, I gotta tell him off right away Wink

Cheers, KDS Beer
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« Reply #296 on: May 06, 2016, 06:16:24 AM »

Lighten up, Rab.  I'm just having a little fun fun fun with you. 

When some loud braggart tries to put me down, I gotta tell him off right away Wink

Cheers, KDS Beer

 Beer
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« Reply #297 on: May 06, 2016, 06:19:07 AM »

Aren't these the same videos used during C50?  They're fine.  They add context.
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« Reply #298 on: May 06, 2016, 06:48:34 AM »

Scott Totten taking over the reins of the Mike and Bruce show in 2008 was to the band's benefit; he was able to build upon the progression that Chris Farmer oversaw as band leader and the band ended up being better for it. Getting rid of Mike Kowalski was a WELCOME change from where I sit. They went from being dire (1998-2003) to serious competition (2004-08) to very close to Brian's group (2009-now). (I think) Scott said himself that Mike picks the songs for the gigs.

I don't doubt for one minute that Brian inspired Mike and Bruce (and by proxy, Scott as band leader) to greater heights as a touring band. They should keep racing up that ladder. Both bands put on excellent shows for their respective markets.

Great post...although the videos I've seen from 2004-2008 are still pretty rough...but I can vouch that Mike & Scott prepare the set together before each show...like, RIGHT before the show...and that doesn't mean it sticks either. Scott added "Good To My Baby" when I saw them in '13 on the fly and Mike had them remove "All I Wanna Do" right before its spot in the show when I just saw them in February. I've also seen shows where they've had the "Rock and Roll Music" and "Do You Wanna Dance" duo on the set, but cut them...presumably because the crowds sucked.
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« Reply #299 on: May 06, 2016, 06:54:37 AM »

Scott Totten taking over the reins of the Mike and Bruce show in 2008 was to the band's benefit; he was able to build upon the progression that Chris Farmer oversaw as band leader and the band ended up being better for it. Getting rid of Mike Kowalski was a WELCOME change from where I sit. They went from being dire (1998-2003) to serious competition (2004-08) to very close to Brian's group (2009-now). (I think) Scott said himself that Mike picks the songs for the gigs.

I don't doubt for one minute that Brian inspired Mike and Bruce (and by proxy, Scott as band leader) to greater heights as a touring band. They should keep racing up that ladder. Both bands put on excellent shows for their respective markets.

Great post...although the videos I've seen from 2004-2008 are still pretty rough...but I can vouch that Mike & Scott prepare the set together before each show...like, RIGHT before the show...and that doesn't mean it sticks either. Scott added "Good To My Baby" when I saw them in '13 on the fly and Mike had them remove "All I Wanna Do" right before its spot in the show when I just saw them in February. I've also seen shows where they've had the "Rock and Roll Music" and "Do You Wanna Dance" duo on the set, but cut them...presumably because the crowds sucked.

Ugh...still stings that All I Wanna Do was in the setlist in Baltimore, but was cut. 
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