Rocky Pamplin book about The Beach Boys?

[Andrew G. Doe]

You just keep thinkin' Butch, that's what you're good at...

[rockrush3]

Nope, just amusing myself by pointing out that the accuracy of your recall is roughly on a par with your literary ability and grasp of basic grammar. Granted, it's like shooting fish in a barrel with a bazooka, but then I never was one to pass up the easy option.  

Your BENDING OVER like that... and your talking about shooting fish in a barrel with a BAZOOKA! And you think I need help?
Proffer all the facts you want... Brian's NEMISIS  is of interest to the world... and that DIRTY LAUNDRY is mike-y  

OH, I'll keep thinking and you keep  SHOOTING FISH IN THAT... BARREL... SUNDANCE!  Only there's no SUN DOWN THERE!

[rockrush3]

   I got watch the Democratic Debate... So BYE GIRLS!    Segment: 7  of  "Wha--Ooh"!  manana...  

[the captain]

Spectacular! I feel very confident in saying that all of us in the various politics threads would absolutely love to hear your views on those topics. I can't begin to even guess what you might say (though I have some ideas on how you might say it*).


*kind off   LIKE THIS      Only probalby MORE AWESOME ... as has been the case thus far in your work of FACTION!!!

[Pretty Funky]

I'm confused. Are people genuinely taken with this guy, or is this sort of like everyone is joking around, and Rocky Raccoon isn't in on the joke?

It's the latter.
(Which said, assuming Pamplin *did* have a period in sex work, it's not really something one should mock him for. He's admitted to enough horrific acts in this thread without picking on something he quite possibly did out of desperation and which between consenting adults causes no-one any harm.)

Another BB book, especially one digging in the dirt?.....Meh!

It may be just me, but how a professional athlete, bodyguard and playgirl model later earning $2m in advertising deals ends up turning tricks for $100 is a damn interesting true-life story in itself, and probably a more interesting one.

[Emily]

I'm confused. Are people genuinely taken with this guy, or is this sort of like everyone is joking around, and Rocky Raccoon isn't in on the joke?

It's the latter.
(Which said, assuming Pamplin *did* have a period in sex work, it's not really something one should mock him for. He's admitted to enough horrific acts in this thread without picking on something he quite possibly did out of desperation and which between consenting adults causes no-one any harm.)

I agree with this. Though Rocky makes the sort of comments that makes it feel like tit-for-tat. But that is not a good justification.

Further, in response to a separate post, any notion that I might be motivated in my comments by a desire to protect Mike Love is a little absurd. I try to avoid too much Mike/Brian conflict and keep a focus on when I might be being unfair, but I am no particular fan of Mike Love.

Third, I think it's interesting, in light of the Rocky/Steve-not-Stan faction, that Brian Wilson has been seen supporting Stan's son, but hasn't been hanging with Rocky since the '70s.

[Emily]

Carolyn Williams could not keep DRUGS out of Brian's life................. When Stan and I worked for Brian he NEVER EVER GOT COCAINE...or any other drugs.  The second thing that is apparent...  is that STAN AND I COULD KEEP DRUGS OUT OF BRIAN'S LIFE...That was the whole JOB DESCRIPTION !!!

Like Rocky does, I was fondly reminiscing about the early days of this thread and I saw this assertion. I'm confused, Rocky. Didn't you say he got heroin on your watch?

[?]

 You do know that Van Dyke backed up what Lorren said...right?

Re-read what VDP's tweet actually said. It sure as hell wasn't anything like "yes, he's right all the way down the line". Not even close.

"I confirm Lorren Daro's account of the 60s: an inconvenient truth, in its candor. Never judge a book by its movie!"

Where is the ambiguity in this?  I don't see it.

Not only that, but Parks has his own axe to grind.

To be fair, so do you when it comes to VDP.

[Andrew G. Doe]

"account of the 60s", not "account of his time with Brian". Big difference.

[ChicagoAnn]

There is a genre called Creative Nonfiction (CNF), under which memoir fits. There are debates in the field about how factual CNF has to be.  With memoir, it's understood that memory has its limits and "truth" is not always "fact."  Using "I" pretty much indicates to anyone it's to the best memory of the writer.  You can't make stuff up, but it's not the same as journalism or history.

When in doubt, however, leave out dates or places unless you have notebooks or journals from the time. Memory is a tricky thing.

Ok, back to popcorn.

ETA: At that time, actually, it probably wouldn't have gotten reported.  Celebrity stuff wasn't that big a deal.

Obviously memoirs are subject to perspective, but what is reported in a memoir as hard fact, i.e. dates, places, are meant to be correct in a nonfiction category. This is not debated. And local news would certainly report an assault on a parade clown, celebrity assailant or not. Have none of you ever read your local newspaper?

Journalism is not Creative Nonfiction in most cases. Memoir is not "hard fact."  As I stated above, this is debated among those of us in the creative writing profession. If you'd like to join me at the Associated Writers and Writing Conference in LA, you can listen to many panels and talks about it.

You can choose to believe that all memoirs have "hard facts" but you will be disappointed. They may have some facts, and when given, like the one ol' Rocky gave, they should be accurate and checked.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Carolyn Williams could not keep DRUGS out of Brian's life................. When Stan and I worked for Brian he NEVER EVER GOT COCAINE...or any other drugs.  The second thing that is apparent...  is that STAN AND I COULD KEEP DRUGS OUT OF BRIAN'S LIFE...That was the whole JOB DESCRIPTION !!!

Like Rocky does, I was fondly reminiscing about the early days of this thread and I saw this assertion. I'm confused, Rocky. Didn't you say he got heroin on your watch?

I recall something about dumping Brian in a cold bath when he'd OD'd so, yes. Also, while on his watch, Brian not only assaulted a stranger in broad daylight and then kicked his cousin in the cojones but also managed to get out of a hotel room and on to a flight, vanished entirely for a few days only to be located some hundred miles away under a tree in San Diego and puked over some stranger's shoes when he was supposed to be off drink. This is aside from The Rockster punching out Carl in Australia for no better reason than Carl saying "f*** you" to him (anger issues much ?) and sleeping with Brian's wife. Dammit, the guy's practically an American Hero ! Sorry... AMERICAN HERO !!!!!!!

Slightly OT - my avatar, which has got Mr. P so worked up (and... now I think we all know why) is actually an advert for some health food shop in the early 70s. I thought it was radiantly obvious... 

[Andrew G. Doe]

You can choose to believe that all memoirs have "hard facts" but you will be disappointed. They may have some facts, and when given, like the one ol' Rocky gave, they should be accurate and checked.

Indeed. I recall an industry mag ran a competition to see who could find the most errors in David Niven's admittedly excellent autobiography The Moon's A Balloon, and the winner came up with over thirty (if you want to read what really happened - which is if anything more interesting and funny - read Niv by Graham Lord. Astonishingly, given the distinctly unflattering portrait it paints, it's authorised).

[?]

"account of the 60s", not "account of his time with Brian". Big difference.

I don't think so, since Mr. Daro wasn't speaking in general terms about the decade.  The topic was obviously his time with Brian so I can't see why Van Dyke would randomly tweet support for something that wasn't being discussed to begin with.  I'll agree to disagree though (and that goes for the next time Lorren Daro comes up here too).

[adamghost]

Well, I'm bored... Good night ladies and gentlemen... You too, Emily!

I'm bored with you, but I'm always into talking about Asterix and Obelix!!!

Me too! The Roman agent was the guy who sowed discord among the villagers. They always fought amongst themselves, of course, but in a friendly sort of unhygeniex sort of way, which is how I like to pretend the intramural squabbles here are. The Roman agent insidiously really turned them against each other.

Wait!  I think I remember!  Is that the one where the chief's wife tries to go to the front of the line per usual, and someone in the line goes "there's a queue here you know" and then it turns into a big old fish fight with all the women?

[adamghost]

I think now would be a good time to summarize this thread...

Rocky Pamplin has written a manuscript that he hopes to have published.

This manuscript is completely factually accurate, except for the parts that are completely factually inaccurate.

Rocky Pamplin thinks that every "view" or "read" on this thread represents a "buyer" for his manuscript that he hopes to have published.   Thus, Rocky Pamplin believes there are 70,000 "buyers" on this board.

Numerous people have ineffectually tried to offer "constructive criticism" to Rocky Pamplin, hoping Rocky Pamplin will somehow be able to turn this "sow's ear" into a "silk purse".

Rocky Pamplin does not handle "constructive criticism" well.  Rocky Pamplin resorts to name-calling and juvenile insults if anyone makes even the slightest negative comment about his manuscript.  Or his memory.  Or his past livelihoods.

This makes for an interesting thread.

...and Asterix rules.  Don't forget that.

[adamghost]

Carolyn Williams could not keep DRUGS out of Brian's life................. When Stan and I worked for Brian he NEVER EVER GOT COCAINE...or any other drugs.  The second thing that is apparent...  is that STAN AND I COULD KEEP DRUGS OUT OF BRIAN'S LIFE...That was the whole JOB DESCRIPTION !!!

Like Rocky does, I was fondly reminiscing about the early days of this thread and I saw this assertion. I'm confused, Rocky. Didn't you say he got heroin on your watch?

I hate it when people get heroin on my watch...it always make it run slow for half a day afterwards...

[AndrewHickey]

You can choose to believe that all memoirs have "hard facts" but you will be disappointed. They may have some facts, and when given, like the one ol' Rocky gave, they should be accurate and checked.

Indeed. I recall an industry mag ran a competition to see who could find the most errors in David Niven's admittedly excellent autobiography The Moon's A Balloon, and the winner came up with over thirty (if you want to read what really happened - which is if anything more interesting and funny - read Niv by Graham Lord. Astonishingly, given the distinctly unflattering portrait it paints, it's authorised).

Of course, David Niven was a witty, charming, literate, much-loved figure, who was interesting at least as much for a forty-year body of his own work as for the celebrities he knew. Possibly Mr. Pamplin would not be afforded the same benefit of doubt as Niven.

[Emily]

There is a genre called Creative Nonfiction (CNF), under which memoir fits. There are debates in the field about how factual CNF has to be.  With memoir, it's understood that memory has its limits and "truth" is not always "fact."  Using "I" pretty much indicates to anyone it's to the best memory of the writer.  You can't make stuff up, but it's not the same as journalism or history.

When in doubt, however, leave out dates or places unless you have notebooks or journals from the time. Memory is a tricky thing.

Ok, back to popcorn.

ETA: At that time, actually, it probably wouldn't have gotten reported.  Celebrity stuff wasn't that big a deal.

Obviously memoirs are subject to perspective, but what is reported in a memoir as hard fact, i.e. dates, places, are meant to be correct in a nonfiction category. This is not debated. And local news would certainly report an assault on a parade clown, celebrity assailant or not. Have none of you ever read your local newspaper?

Journalism is not Creative Nonfiction in most cases. Memoir is not "hard fact."  As I stated above, this is debated among those of us in the creative writing profession. If you'd like to join me at the Associated Writers and Writing Conference in LA, you can listen to many panels and talks about it.

You can choose to believe that all memoirs have "hard facts" but you will be disappointed. They may have some facts, and when given, like the one ol' Rocky gave, they should be accurate and checked.

Maybe read again what I wrote, because we said the same thing.

[Emily]

Well, I'm bored... Good night ladies and gentlemen... You too, Emily!

I'm bored with you, but I'm always into talking about Asterix and Obelix!!!

Me too! The Roman agent was the guy who sowed discord among the villagers. They always fought amongst themselves, of course, but in a friendly sort of unhygeniex sort of way, which is how I like to pretend the intramural squabbles here are. The Roman agent insidiously really turned them against each other.

Wait!  I think I remember!  Is that the one where the chief's wife tries to go to the front of the line per usual, and someone in the line goes "there's a queue here you know" and then it turns into a big old fish fight with all the women?

That's the one!

[bachelorofbullets]

I also know that VDP said that The Beatles came to LA and listened to SMiLE tapes, and that was a load of crap, too. You're point?

Your reference to Van Dyke's mistake is exactly my point.  Who cares about some random factoid involving the Beatles that was incorrectly recalled 50 years later.  It matters not.  It's a weak attempt at discrediting Van Dyke's overall contribution.   

The same thing goes with Rocky.  No matter what you think of him, he was an insider.  If you want to disprove one of his claims (like the "surfer stomp"), then you will need to provide something solid, like an eyewitness.

[Emily]

I also know that VDP said that The Beatles came to LA and listened to SMiLE tapes, and that was a load of crap, too. You're point?

Your reference to Van Dyke's mistake is exactly my point.  Who cares about some random factoid involving the Beatles that was incorrectly recalled 50 years later.  It matters not.  It's a weak attempt at discrediting Van Dyke's overall contribution.   

The same thing goes with Rocky.  No matter what you think of him, he was an insider.  If you want to disprove one of his claims (like the "surfer stomp"), then you will need to provide something solid, like an eyewitness.

I agree that one should not write off everything someone says because of some minor discrepancies, but one goes through a conscious-or-not process when listening to anyone, whether journalist, historian, or raconteur, to establish the speaker's credibility, then absorbs what what they say with however many grains of salt one deems appropriate.
My own evaluation is that Daro's and Pamplin's egos are heavily invested in their reports, Daro's defensively and Pamplin's aggressively, so both might be embellishing the information accordingly. It doesn't mean all the information should be tossed, but it should be taken with reservations and cross checked.

[The Shift]

I also know that VDP said that The Beatles came to LA and listened to SMiLE tapes, and that was a load of crap, too. You're point?

Your reference to Van Dyke's mistake is exactly my point.  Who cares about some random factoid involving the Beatles that was incorrectly recalled 50 years later.  It matters not.  It's a weak attempt at discrediting Van Dyke's overall contribution.   

The same thing goes with Rocky.  No matter what you think of him, he was an insider.  If you want to disprove one of his claims (like the "surfer stomp"), then you will need to provide something solid, like an eyewitness.

I agree that one should not write off everything someone says because of some minor discrepancies, but one goes through a conscious-or-not process when listening to anyone, whether journalist, historian, or raconteur, to establish the speaker's credibility, then absorbs what what they say with however many grains of salt one deems appropriate.
My own evaluation is that Daro's and Pamplin's egos are heavily invested in their reports, Daro's defensively and Pamplin's aggressively, so both might be embellishing the information accordingly. It doesn't mean all the information should be tossed, but it should be taken with reservations and cross checked.

I think if folk are spouting on a message board then some allowances can be made for inaccuracies, bad memories, errors and more - as is happening here, they can be called out, corrected and more within days or even hours, and like a conversation a better picture is gradually built up by he contributions of many.

Stick those same errors and fictions into a printed book, however, and demand money for under the title of "author", and it becomes a shabby product.

Thankfully Rocky's had the good judgement to offer his chapter up for fact-checking here, on the most knowledgable Beach Boys board on the World Wide Web, and those with the facts at their fingertips are helpfully doing a great job of correcting him where necessary. It's only to be expected that someone in the twilight years of his life would have trouble recalling every fact from his youth with pinpoint accuracy, and I'm sure folk here don't mind providing this caring role.

Thanks to suggestions from this board, the book is also being rewritten in a first-person context, a move that will make the end-product more readable and enjoyable.

The fact that Rocky lambasts every constructive point with insults, and hurls abuse even at people who support his (historical) actions, shouldn't detract from the thread; it's just Rocky being good ol' Rocky. I'm sure we'll all get a "thank you" in the acknowledgements when the book sees the light of day.

[catlag]

"doe boy"... Why don't you just admit you are working for mike-y? We ALL KNOW IT!  "mike's minnions"... manning... mott... micha... doe boy!  I have people who e-mail me personally... and none of them "LIKE MIKE"!  That's also how I know Brian and Melinda are following as well... AND THEY LOVE IT!  

Yeah, what they love is watching your book project sink, along with your dignity. Popcorn, anyone? Oh, no, let's wait for Wipeout: The Movie. I'm sure Brian and Melinda are absolutely thrilled about that one too.

[rockrush3]

  Segment: 7  "Wha--Ooh"

     By now, Stephen and I had the situation with Brian under control and Stan had gone over to console Mike, who was reeling with anxiety and was self-consciously feeling like a pariah.  Everyone was wondering what the hell did Mike do to Brian to provoke this onslaught of hostility from the timid, ever peaceful gentle spirit that is Brian.  It was apparent to all present that some past history between Mike and Brian was not copacetic.  Brian seemed to have settled down, to have fully regained his equanimity, his peace of mind.
     Stan approached Brian, Stephen and me and said, "Mike would like to have a peaceful word with you, Brian, if that's alright."  Brian quickly said, "Okay."  Stan went back over to Mike and reiterated Brian's acceptance, whereupon Mike, Stan, Brian and I made our way to a small semi-private makeup room nearby.  The four of us very calmly entered the well lit room.  As soon as Stan closed the door, Brian lashed out and attacked Mike again, this time with his fists with a flurry of punches, knocking Mike back over a chair onto the cement floor.  Tossing another chair out of his way, Brian forced Mike into a corner where he cowered.  Makeup lights exploded and chairs were scattered as Brian relentlessly pursued his prey, his nemesis.  Mike made a hasty, cowardly retreat.  He was freaked out.  When Stan and I had subdued Brian for the second time, Brian, towering over Mike, looked at the trembling, cowering man below him and shouted, matter-of-factly, "You're no cousin of mine, you fucking p*ssy.  You're chickenshit!"  
     Despite the rather bizarre preliminaries, the big show that night went fine and came off without further incident.  In fact, it was the most relaxed we had ever seen Brian perform.  He seemed to have a little smile on his face, brought about by a certain intangible inner glow.  It was like he exuded a serene sense of accomplishment and confidence.
     Mike, on the other hand was, to say the least, distracted, and did not perform well, nor did he perform left of center stage near Brian, where he normally goes to avoid Dennis' drumsticks.  He stayed center stage, where the overly happy, almost ecstatic Dennis quickly broke two drumsticks on his drum rim that shot straight out in Mike's direction.  During the performance that night, Mike kept darting around and looking over his shoulder like he couldn't wait to get off stage, which brought immense satisfaction to an exuberant Dennis who, at the halfway point of the show and just before intermission, went to the center stage microphone and announced, "Congratulations, Brian, for kicking Mike's ass!"  He then proceeded to sing "You Are So Beautiful,"  a Joe Cocker song that went over surprisingly well considering Dennis' similar to Cocker's own raspy voice.
     When the tour body returned to southern California and Brian was back in his beloved Bel Air safe haven, he entered his mansion cheerfully singing "Home Sweet Home."  He bellowed more than sang the song, which took Marilyn by surprise.  She started laughing and asked Stan and me, "What is that all about?"  Stan let me field that question, saying, "Why don't you fill her in? ... and I'll keep an eye on My Main Man Brian."  Brian pounded his chest with both hands and let out a Tarzan-like yell: "Ah aah--- aah aah" while Stan cheered and said enthusiastically, "Brian, you da Man!"
     Marilyn stood there, mouth agape but clearly grinning.  She demanded, "Will you please fill me in, Rocky?"  I said, "Here, Marilyn, I want you to sit down and make your self comfortable while I pour us a glass of champagne.  You're gonna need it."  I opened a chilled bottle of Dom Perignon and slowly poured two Baccarat tulip-shaped flutes to the top and said: "You're in for a mind-blowing surprise.  The Golden Goose... Wizard... Beach Boy extraordinaire Brian Wilson is now officially our HERO!"

(Segment: 8  to follow)  

[Juice Brohnston]

"Marilyn demanded 'will you please fill me in Rocky..."