Al joining Mike and Bruce for Jones Beach show

[HeyJude]

One fun sidebar to this thread is that you can *really* tell which of the members has it out for Al, LOL.

I don't think anybody here has it out for Al.  Al does some stupid things to himself, like putting the Jones Beach date on his own website, but I think people here recognize his talents and enjoy his singing and some of his songs.

I do remember that it was posted somewhere that not only was Al supposedly going to appear at Jones Beach with the Beach Boys, but he was also going to do some work in the studio with Mike. I'm not sure where I read that but I know it was out there somewhere. I assume that will not happen now, but it was interesting that it was apparently discussed between the two of them, or at least their agents. So, it was more than birthday greetings perfunctorily exchanged on Facebook.

I don’t think there was anything mentioned even as specific as Mike and Al working in the studio. In that Mike interview from the last month or so where we learned Foskett had joined, etc., Mike mentioned he had spoken to Al recently and they were discussing doing something “creatively.” That’s about as vague as one can get; it does presumably tell us that it would be (or would have been) something other than live concert performances. I took it as they were considering maybe writing something, and even that may have consisted of handing each other partially finished songs to polish up together.

As for folks being “out to get” Al, I think there are some folks like that. That goes for pretty much any band member (I suppose Dave has come away relatively unscathed in this sense). I think those that seem to have an agenda to attack/criticize Al stick out for a couple of reasons: First of all, as we discussed a little while back, whether it’s right or wrong, there has been a shift away from how things were 10-15 years ago as far as most of the ire from fans (again, right or wrong) going towards one particular member. But also, as objective as I can be, I think sometimes you have to work harder to really get nasty and mean about Al, and so when people do, it seems a little more obvious that the agenda of someone criticizing him has less to do with objectively noting that something he has done is disagreeable, and comes off more like a weird personal thing, and/or compensating and defending another band member by going after Al.

I think Al, on occasion, when he’s criticized within the context of the history of the BB’s, it comes across a bit like that scene with Milton from “Office Space” where they’re handing the pieces of cake out. Al’s “sins” in the course of BB history are a bit like Milton taking the piece of cake in that scene. Hopefully someone will get that reference.   

[Nicko1234]

I don’t think there was anything mentioned even as specific as Mike and Al working in the studio. In that Mike interview from the last month or so where we learned Foskett had joined, etc., Mike mentioned he had spoken to Al recently and they were discussing doing something “creatively.” That’s about as vague as one can get; it does presumably tell us that it would (or would have) been something other than live concert performances. I took it as they were considering maybe writing something, and even that may have consisted of handing each other partially finished songs to polish up together.

As for folks being “out to get” Al, I think there are some folks like that. That goes for pretty much any band member (I suppose Dave has come away relatively unscathed in this sense). I think those that seem to have an agenda to attack/criticize Al stick out for a couple of reasons: First of all, as we discussed a little while back, whether it’s right or wrong, there has been a shift away from how things were 10-15 years ago as far as most of the ire from fans (again, right or wrong) going towards one particular member. But also, as objective as I can be, I think sometimes you have to work harder to really get nasty and mean about Al, and so when people do, it seems a little more obvious that the agenda of someone criticizing him has less to do with objectively noting that something he has done is disagreeable, and comes off more like a weird personal thing, and/or compensating and defending another band member by going after Al.

I think Al, on occasion, when he’s criticized within the context of the history of the BB’s, it comes across a bit like that scene with Milton from “Office Space” where they’re handing the pieces of cake out. Al’s “sins” in the course of BB history are a bit like Milton taking the piece of cake in that scene. Hopefully someone will get that reference.

That implies again though that just because there is less ire towards Mike than there was in 1998/1999, that it means the ire must therefore be directed towards another member which I don`t really see at all.

The only time I`ve ever seen any genuine hate for Al was on the blueboard many years ago when he and Brian were estranged. On here though there are obviously people annoyed that they`ve bought tickets to a gig that he has cancelled (either now or back when he was meant to tour with Brian) but the comments about Al are very soft and certainly don`t show anyone is, `out to get` him.

[ToneBender631]

One fun sidebar to this thread is that you can *really* tell which of the members has it out for Al, LOL.

I don't think anybody here has it out for Al.  Al does some stupid things to himself, like putting the Jones Beach date on his own website, but I think people here recognize his talents and enjoy his singing and some of his songs.

I do remember that it was posted somewhere that not only was Al supposedly going to appear at Jones Beach with the Beach Boys, but he was also going to do some work in the studio with Mike. I'm not sure where I read that but I know it was out there somewhere. I assume that will not happen now, but it was interesting that it was apparently discussed between the two of them, or at least their agents. So, it was more than birthday greetings perfunctorily exchanged on Facebook.

I don’t think there was anything mentioned even as specific as Mike and Al working in the studio. In that Mike interview from the last month or so where we learned Foskett had joined, etc., Mike mentioned he had spoken to Al recently and they were discussing doing something “creatively.” That’s about as vague as one can get; it does presumably tell us that it would be (or would have been) something other than live concert performances. I took it as they were considering maybe writing something, and even that may have consisted of handing each other partially finished songs to polish up together.

As for folks being “out to get” Al, I think there are some folks like that. That goes for pretty much any band member (I suppose Dave has come away relatively unscathed in this sense). I think those that seem to have an agenda to attack/criticize Al stick out for a couple of reasons: First of all, as we discussed a little while back, whether it’s right or wrong, there has been a shift away from how things were 10-15 years ago as far as most of the ire from fans (again, right or wrong) going towards one particular member. But also, as objective as I can be, I think sometimes you have to work harder to really get nasty and mean about Al, and so when people do, it seems a little more obvious that the agenda of someone criticizing him has less to do with objectively noting that something he has done is disagreeable, and comes off more like a weird personal thing, and/or compensating and defending another band member by going after Al.

I think Al, on occasion, when he’s criticized within the context of the history of the BB’s, it comes across a bit like that scene with Milton from “Office Space” where they’re handing the pieces of cake out. Al’s “sins” in the course of BB history are a bit like Milton taking the piece of cake in that scene. Hopefully someone will get that reference.  

It kind of reminds me of when Alan White, the long-time drummer of Oasis, was fired for missing a band meeting. Alan supposedly missed a band meeting because of a prior personal commitment and Noel Gallagher decided that this was a sign that Alan wasn't committed enough to the band because, "In the past 10 years we've had all of 3 or 4 official band meetings and he couldn't be bothered to show up". Mind you, this was about a year or so after Noel had refused to tour with the band outside of the UK because of an argument he'd had with Liam. Consequently, a replacement band member was pulled in for about 35-40 shows, while Noel was "considerate" enough to show up for the big stadium gigs in the UK...For all the shows that he and his brother had missed over the years, for all of the tabloid headlines, the millions spent on cocaine (while Alan was sober), him not showing up for a meeting lead to his dismissal for not being "committed" enough.

So yes, in the grand scheme of things, if this is the worst thing that Al has done, especially in the context of what he's personally put up with himself, it's kind of ridiculous that Mike or Bruce may consider the bridge burned, given what everyone put up with from Brian and Dennis over the years on a business and personal level.  

[HeyJude]

I don’t think there was anything mentioned even as specific as Mike and Al working in the studio. In that Mike interview from the last month or so where we learned Foskett had joined, etc., Mike mentioned he had spoken to Al recently and they were discussing doing something “creatively.” That’s about as vague as one can get; it does presumably tell us that it would (or would have) been something other than live concert performances. I took it as they were considering maybe writing something, and even that may have consisted of handing each other partially finished songs to polish up together.

As for folks being “out to get” Al, I think there are some folks like that. That goes for pretty much any band member (I suppose Dave has come away relatively unscathed in this sense). I think those that seem to have an agenda to attack/criticize Al stick out for a couple of reasons: First of all, as we discussed a little while back, whether it’s right or wrong, there has been a shift away from how things were 10-15 years ago as far as most of the ire from fans (again, right or wrong) going towards one particular member. But also, as objective as I can be, I think sometimes you have to work harder to really get nasty and mean about Al, and so when people do, it seems a little more obvious that the agenda of someone criticizing him has less to do with objectively noting that something he has done is disagreeable, and comes off more like a weird personal thing, and/or compensating and defending another band member by going after Al.

I think Al, on occasion, when he’s criticized within the context of the history of the BB’s, it comes across a bit like that scene with Milton from “Office Space” where they’re handing the pieces of cake out. Al’s “sins” in the course of BB history are a bit like Milton taking the piece of cake in that scene. Hopefully someone will get that reference.

That implies again though that just because there is less ire towards Mike than there was in 1998/1999, that it means the ire must therefore be directed towards another member which I don`t really see at all.

The only time I`ve ever seen any genuine hate for Al was on the blueboard many years ago when he and Brian were estranged. On here though there are obviously people annoyed that they`ve bought tickets to a gig that he has cancelled (either now or back when he was meant to tour with Brian) but the comments about Al are very soft and certainly don`t show anyone is, `out to get` him.

I wasn’t suggesting any ire has been shifted from one member to another. Rather, there are more members who are gathering larger factions of fans who seem to go out of their way to criticize them (again, right or wrong). Why this has happened, I do not know.

I can’t speak too much to actual “hate” of band members by fans; I can’t gauge that nor can any of us. There has been hyperbolic language that could be construed as hate, but I tend to just keep to examining negative comments/criticism, and what prompts those comments.

As far as fans who are negative towards Al, both prompted and unprompted, I have seen that here and other places, not just the blueboard (which I haven’t visited since the days of Brian’s “Smile” tour, and haven’t actively read much since 2000).

As concerns this Jones Beach debacle, it isn’t just annoyed ticket buyers. In fact, how many people posting in this thread even bought tickets to the show? Also, of those who have bought tickets, how many bought them solely or predominantly because Al was going to be there? There are folks who fall into this category, and I think they are due a refund if they want one and an apology from Al (and perhaps anyone else involved in the debacle), but the percentage of people that fall into this category in relation either to this message board population or the entire lot of ticket buyers for the Jones Beach show is probably pretty small.

[JohnMill]

I don’t think there was anything mentioned even as specific as Mike and Al working in the studio. In that Mike interview from the last month or so where we learned Foskett had joined, etc., Mike mentioned he had spoken to Al recently and they were discussing doing something “creatively.” That’s about as vague as one can get; it does presumably tell us that it would (or would have) been something other than live concert performances. I took it as they were considering maybe writing something, and even that may have consisted of handing each other partially finished songs to polish up together.

As for folks being “out to get” Al, I think there are some folks like that. That goes for pretty much any band member (I suppose Dave has come away relatively unscathed in this sense). I think those that seem to have an agenda to attack/criticize Al stick out for a couple of reasons: First of all, as we discussed a little while back, whether it’s right or wrong, there has been a shift away from how things were 10-15 years ago as far as most of the ire from fans (again, right or wrong) going towards one particular member. But also, as objective as I can be, I think sometimes you have to work harder to really get nasty and mean about Al, and so when people do, it seems a little more obvious that the agenda of someone criticizing him has less to do with objectively noting that something he has done is disagreeable, and comes off more like a weird personal thing, and/or compensating and defending another band member by going after Al.

I think Al, on occasion, when he’s criticized within the context of the history of the BB’s, it comes across a bit like that scene with Milton from “Office Space” where they’re handing the pieces of cake out. Al’s “sins” in the course of BB history are a bit like Milton taking the piece of cake in that scene. Hopefully someone will get that reference.

That implies again though that just because there is less ire towards Mike than there was in 1998/1999, that it means the ire must therefore be directed towards another member which I don`t really see at all.

The only time I`ve ever seen any genuine hate for Al was on the blueboard many years ago when he and Brian were estranged. On here though there are obviously people annoyed that they`ve bought tickets to a gig that he has cancelled (either now or back when he was meant to tour with Brian) but the comments about Al are very soft and certainly don`t show anyone is, `out to get` him.

I wasn’t suggesting any ire has been shifted from one member to another. Rather, there are more members who are gathering larger factions of fans who seem to go out of their way to criticize them (again, right or wrong). Why this has happened, I do not know.

I can’t speak too much to actual “hate” of band members by fans; I can’t gauge that nor can any of us. There has been hyperbolic language that could be construed as hate, but I tend to just keep to examining negative comments/criticism, and what prompts those comments.

As far as fans who are negative towards Al, both prompted and unprompted, I have seen that here and other places, not just the blueboard (which I haven’t visited since the days of Brian’s “Smile” tour, and haven’t actively read much since 2000).

As concerns this Jones Beach debacle, it isn’t just annoyed ticket buyers. In fact, how many people posting in this thread even bought tickets to the show? Also, of those who have bought tickets, how many bought them solely or predominantly because Al was going to be there? There are folks who fall into this category, and I think they are due a refund if they want one and an apology from Al (and perhaps anyone else involved in the debacle), but the percentage of people that fall into this category in relation either to this message board population or the entire lot of ticket buyers for the Jones Beach show is probably pretty small.

Perhaps but there were people who bought tickets because of the prospect of Al, Mike, Bruce & Dave being on stage together for a one night only show.  That is as close to the C50 lineup as you are going to get without it actually being the C50 lineup.  So you need to factor in the number of fans who purchased tickets because of the prospect of seeing 4/5 Beach Boys onstage together which likely isn't as small as you would think. 

In the spirit of full disclosure I considered buying tickets to this show but ultimately decided not to as there was a rumor going around at the time this show was announced that this might develop into "something more" down the line.  The dollar only stretches so far and I figured that if Brian Wilson was ever brought back into the fold I'd want to save my pennies and dimes for that.  Of course all of that is seemingly moot now and I'm glad I didn't get a ticket for Jones Beach as the only thing it would've gotten me is hours of time on the telephone line talking about things to come...(such as my refund)!

[guitarfool2002]

Why would Al need to apologize to fans for not performing for them July 5th when he'll be in England performing for fans July 5th? Perhaps there is more to the story, right? Or perhaps not.

I can parse and twist words and meanings with the best of 'em, but since we haven't gotten an official word or full explanation publicly as to what happened, unless Al broke a legal contract/agreement to be there, why does he owe an apology?

And for those who are having a tough time finding the negatives against particular members scattered among this board as an almost expected pattern, I'd suggest getting a stronger pair of reading glasses. I'll stay cryptic for now, but it's often a more successful tactic to "accentuate the positive" on what you're promoting than it is to try boosting a legacy or an image by diminishing or casting doubts on another.

[guitarfool2002]

Perhaps but there were people who bought tickets because of the prospect of Al, Mike, Bruce & Dave being on stage together for a one night only show.  That is as close to the C50 lineup as you are going to get without it actually being the C50 lineup.  So you need to factor in the number of fans who purchased tickets because of the prospect of seeing 4/5 Beach Boys onstage together which likely isn't as small as you would think. 

In the spirit of full disclosure I considered buying tickets to this show but ultimately decided not to as there was a rumor going around at the time this show was announced that this might develop into "something more" down the line.  The dollar only stretches so far and I figured that if Brian Wilson was ever brought back into the fold I'd want to save my pennies and dimes for that.  Of course all of that is seemingly moot now and I'm glad I didn't get a ticket for Jones Beach as the only thing it would've gotten me is hours of time on the telephone line talking about things to come...(such as my refund)!

JohnMill: Did the promotion of the current tour, not specific to but including this show, have anything to do with your considering buying tickets? Or was it more the rumor of perhaps "something more" that was the big factor?

I'm saying this because I'm wondering how fans - more loyal fans of the sort who read and post on this board - feel about using the terms "50th" or "50 Years" or "anniversary" prominently in the 2014 Beach Boys tour promotions. Is that a loaded term, considering it's 2014?

[MyDrKnowsItKeepsMeCalm]

Perhaps but there were people who bought tickets because of the prospect of Al, Mike, Bruce & Dave being on stage together for a one night only show.  That is as close to the C50 lineup as you are going to get without it actually being the C50 lineup.  So you need to factor in the number of fans who purchased tickets because of the prospect of seeing 4/5 Beach Boys onstage together which likely isn't as small as you would think. 

Yep, exactly. I'm still planning to attend the show and I'm not hopping mad or anything, but the "Al & David joining up for one night only" pitch -- a pitch still on the Jones Beach site as we speak -- was very much the reasoning that got me off the fence and convinced me to purchase a ticket.

[HeyJude]

Perhaps but there were people who bought tickets because of the prospect of Al, Mike, Bruce & Dave being on stage together for a one night only show.  That is as close to the C50 lineup as you are going to get without it actually being the C50 lineup.  So you need to factor in the number of fans who purchased tickets because of the prospect of seeing 4/5 Beach Boys onstage together which likely isn't as small as you would think. 

In the spirit of full disclosure I considered buying tickets to this show but ultimately decided not to as there was a rumor going around at the time this show was announced that this might develop into "something more" down the line.  The dollar only stretches so far and I figured that if Brian Wilson was ever brought back into the fold I'd want to save my pennies and dimes for that.  Of course all of that is seemingly moot now and I'm glad I didn't get a ticket for Jones Beach as the only thing it would've gotten me is hours of time on the telephone line talking about things to come...(such as my refund)!

As far as motivations for buying tickets, I think we're parsing too much if we're trying to differentiate between "bought ticket solely because of Al's appearance" versus "bought tickets because Al being there would have meant four Beach Boys on stage." When I ask how many here or elsewhere bought tickets because of Al's potential appearance, I mean any scenario by which Al's participation was the tipping point or deciding factor or impetus, etc. for buying tickets. This isn't to minimize those who fall into this category (I would be one of those people if the show were near me; and as I've said before, in this scenario I would now be very conflicted about whether to go), but to simply point out that most of the participants in this discussion did not, I'm assuming, buy tickets to this show at all, and also to speak more broadly to the topic of how recent conversation which has included criticism of Al has not been confined to the "Jones Beach" issue.

There is also the more broad question of who many *total* ticket buyers are upset or even care about Al's non-appearance. I think the total number is probably relatively small. First factor out everybody who bought tickets before Al's name was advertised. Then factor out Rascals and Lovin' Spoonful fans (e.g. fans who only bought tickets because of those bands), factor out Beach Boys fans who didn't know or didn't care about Al's participation, then factor out fans who would have liked to see Al there but still would have bought tickets either way. Then factor out in-the-know Beach Boys fans who are buying tickets now knowing that Al won't be there. I think the number of ticket buyers left who wish they hadn't bought tickets because Al won't be there could number in the hundreds, perhaps under 100 if the sales numbers people have mentioned before are accurate.

There could also be the phenomenon after the fact of ticket buyers who, once told they didn't get something they "should have", will then complain even if they knew nothing about the situation when they bought tickets and perhaps don't even know who Al Jardine is. I'm not sure what category to put those fans in.

[HeyJude]

Perhaps but there were people who bought tickets because of the prospect of Al, Mike, Bruce & Dave being on stage together for a one night only show.  That is as close to the C50 lineup as you are going to get without it actually being the C50 lineup.  So you need to factor in the number of fans who purchased tickets because of the prospect of seeing 4/5 Beach Boys onstage together which likely isn't as small as you would think. 

Yep, exactly. I'm still planning to attend the show and I'm not hopping mad or anything, but the "Al & David joining up for one night only" pitch -- a pitch still on the Jones Beach site as we speak -- was very much the reasoning that got me off the fence and convinced me to purchase a ticket.

This is definitely an issue as well. I know there are always shades of grey. The "four on stage" factor could be a strong tipping point but not the only factor, and then when that is taken away, it's kind of iffy about whether it's still worth it.

This is not to start anti-Mike rhetoric, but I still think an interesting future discussion that might be worth having is how this "I may not or would not have bought tickets if it was just a regular show" speaks to the value/popularity/apathy towards the standard "touring Beach Boys" lineup and what the "brand" has become over the years.

[HeyJude]

Why would Al need to apologize to fans for not performing for them July 5th when he'll be in England performing for fans July 5th? Perhaps there is more to the story, right? Or perhaps not.

I can parse and twist words and meanings with the best of 'em, but since we haven't gotten an official word or full explanation publicly as to what happened, unless Al broke a legal contract/agreement to be there, why does he owe an apology?

And for those who are having a tough time finding the negatives against particular members scattered among this board as an almost expected pattern, I'd suggest getting a stronger pair of reading glasses. I'll stay cryptic for now, but it's often a more successful tactic to "accentuate the positive" on what you're promoting than it is to try boosting a legacy or an image by diminishing or casting doubts on another.

Al (or someone working for him) did put the Jones Beach show up on his website (or some internet hub), that's really the only thing that we know for sure that Al is on the hook for as far as some fans are concerned. We can break it down even further and try to figure out how many fans who bought tickets because of Al's participation did so because of the Ticketmaster/Live Nation e-mail versus seeing it on Al's website, but I think that's too much speculation. Certainly, for at least a small group of fans, Al's website at least served as confirmation to solidify that he would presumably be at that show.

So even if Al never signed anything, and never said anything more then "meh, I'll think about it", it was a bad idea for him or his "team" to list the Jones Beach show. In fact, if he never even verbally fully committed to the show, then listing the show online seems even more iffy.

Now, it may well be that Al did sign or verbally agree to do the show in some form, and that could *theoretically* in a specific scenario actually absolve him of responsibility for posting the show on his website. If he signed a deal or made a verbal agreement to do it, and then *someone else*, either Live Nation or another party, broke the terms of that deal and forced Al to back out, then we certainly couldn't blame Al for having the date on his website. But this is all speculation of course. Al didn't speak to any of this sort of stuff in his statement, essentially just saying he won't be touring with Mike. But if such a scenario like this did occur and it was out of his hands in some way, he might want to explain that so that some fans aren't pissed at him. I dunno.

I think, at least among some fans here, Mike's interview in which he mentioned Al and Dave's participation may have been the strongest "confirmation", and I wouldn't be surprised if that more than anything else (even business and financial machinations and whatnot) could be a reason Mike would be pissed at Al right now.

[guitarfool2002]

So when did the original dates for C50 end and when did the additional dates begin and when were the additional dates published?

I wish I could give a specific answer but it's honestly beyond my scope. The dates were being published and revised from February 2012, as it stands beyond the original tour schedule as announced you'd need to look at when each venue was added to that original list, including the European and Asian dates, and you may get the specifics by looking up local media reports and announcements date-by-date.

Beyond the fact that they added certain dates beyond the original plan, and beyond the fact that there were a few dates added to accommodate the demand as some of these shows had sold out very fast after tickets went on sale, I don't see how important to anything it would be to determine, say, when exactly the Chicago area show was announced.  

And it stands that among the shows which were not on the original Feb 2012 announcement list, for whatever reasons (maybe the details were not worked out in some cases when the list was published), the ones which were not outright sell-out events were at 90% sales or higher, which for large venues is pretty high.

Is there a reason for asking or is it just curiosity?

[guitarfool2002]

HeyJude: Points taken, but at the same time where is Mike's explanation or even a statement or comment about Al's appearance July 5th? This is the way Jones Beach was mentioned in the David Beard "Examiner" interview posted June 22, just over a week ago:

Will David Marks will be joining you for Jones Beach Theater concert on Saturday, July 5?

Mike: We’re planning on it, that’s for sure. David and I have had a long friendship. There was one time – when we were in Hawaii in the early days – David was sitting on a balcony, and was getting ready to fall off, and I grabbed his ankle as he was on his way down. He attributes that act as saving his life. Literally. David is a bright and witty person…a lot of fun to be around. I care about David a lot, and we always have had a great relationship.

At least an "elephant in the room" situation here, right? 

[JohnMill]

Perhaps but there were people who bought tickets because of the prospect of Al, Mike, Bruce & Dave being on stage together for a one night only show.  That is as close to the C50 lineup as you are going to get without it actually being the C50 lineup.  So you need to factor in the number of fans who purchased tickets because of the prospect of seeing 4/5 Beach Boys onstage together which likely isn't as small as you would think. 

In the spirit of full disclosure I considered buying tickets to this show but ultimately decided not to as there was a rumor going around at the time this show was announced that this might develop into "something more" down the line.  The dollar only stretches so far and I figured that if Brian Wilson was ever brought back into the fold I'd want to save my pennies and dimes for that.  Of course all of that is seemingly moot now and I'm glad I didn't get a ticket for Jones Beach as the only thing it would've gotten me is hours of time on the telephone line talking about things to come...(such as my refund)!

JohnMill: Did the promotion of the current tour, not specific to but including this show, have anything to do with your considering buying tickets? Or was it more the rumor of perhaps "something more" that was the big factor?

I'm saying this because I'm wondering how fans - more loyal fans of the sort who read and post on this board - feel about using the terms "50th" or "50 Years" or "anniversary" prominently in the 2014 Beach Boys tour promotions. Is that a loaded term, considering it's 2014?

I was considering buying tickets due to the fact that 4/5 surviving Beach Boys were going to be onstage together at one time.  I don't want to sound disrespectful to the show Mike Love puts on every summer and markets as "The Beach Boys" but I've seen that show and am ready for something different.  Likewise I haven't seen Brian Wilson since TLOS tour but will considering buying a ticket to his autumn tour this year especially if he is promoting his new album.  I'll be doubly pleased if Al Jardine and David Marks are once again invited along for the ride.

To address HeyJude's issue about differentiating about buying a ticket specifically to see Al Jardine versus buying a ticket to see 4/5 Beach Boys reunited onstage, personally any combination of 4/5 would've worked for me as far as providing the impetus to purchase a ticket.  5/5 would be optimal but 4/5 ain't bad any way you slice it.  I will say though if one of those four members was Brian Wilson, that probably would be the tipping point for me as Brian is my favorite member of the group.

[KittyKat]

Why would Al need to apologize to fans for not performing for them July 5th when he'll be in England performing for fans July 5th? Perhaps there is more to the story, right? Or perhaps not.

I can parse and twist words and meanings with the best of 'em, but since we haven't gotten an official word or full explanation publicly as to what happened, unless Al broke a legal contract/agreement to be there, why does he owe an apology?

And for those who are having a tough time finding the negatives against particular members scattered among this board as an almost expected pattern, I'd suggest getting a stronger pair of reading glasses. I'll stay cryptic for now, but it's often a more successful tactic to "accentuate the positive" on what you're promoting than it is to try boosting a legacy or an image by diminishing or casting doubts on another.

You  do know that the United States and the UK/Ireland are on different continents? Not to mention the fact that Jones Beach is a relatively remote location for most people attending that show, and that at least a few people not only bought tickets, but made travel plans based on Al being there? Maybe not a lot of people, but some, including some who would not want to attend a Mike concert in a million years if they didn't think Al would be there due to that gig being publicized as such, including on Al's own website. Yes, Al does owe that particular group of people an apology for putting the gig up on AlJardine.com, at least. People tend to think you will show up for a gig posted on your own website.

[HeyJude]

HeyJude: Points taken, but at the same time where is Mike's explanation or even a statement or comment about Al's appearance July 5th? This is the way Jones Beach was mentioned in the David Beard "Examiner" interview posted June 22, just over a week ago:

Will David Marks will be joining you for Jones Beach Theater concert on Saturday, July 5?

Mike: We’re planning on it, that’s for sure. David and I have had a long friendship. There was one time – when we were in Hawaii in the early days – David was sitting on a balcony, and was getting ready to fall off, and I grabbed his ankle as he was on his way down. He attributes that act as saving his life. Literally. David is a bright and witty person…a lot of fun to be around. I care about David a lot, and we always have had a great relationship.

At least an "elephant in the room" situation here, right? 

In the Rolling Stone article from mid-May, they quoted Mike:

"Year after year, it's been a great source of inspiration to see the happiness our music has brought to multiple generations of Beach Boys fans in so many parts of the world," Mike Love said in a statement. "This summer I’m particularly excited for the Jones Beach show, which is such a terrific, iconic venue. It will be very special to share the stage with some old friends and bandmates, Al Jardine and David Marks."

[MyDrKnowsItKeepsMeCalm]

Perhaps but there were people who bought tickets because of the prospect of Al, Mike, Bruce & Dave being on stage together for a one night only show.  That is as close to the C50 lineup as you are going to get without it actually being the C50 lineup.  So you need to factor in the number of fans who purchased tickets because of the prospect of seeing 4/5 Beach Boys onstage together which likely isn't as small as you would think. 

Yep, exactly. I'm still planning to attend the show and I'm not hopping mad or anything, but the "Al & David joining up for one night only" pitch -- a pitch still on the Jones Beach site as we speak -- was very much the reasoning that got me off the fence and convinced me to purchase a ticket.

This is definitely an issue as well. I know there are always shades of grey. The "four on stage" factor could be a strong tipping point but not the only factor, and then when that is taken away, it's kind of iffy about whether it's still worth it.

Yep, right on. (It's also a co-billed show with two other groups I honestly don't particularly care about, so much as I'd like to see any Beach Boys-related show, in my mind it had that working against it too.)

This is not to start anti-Mike rhetoric, but I still think an interesting future discussion that might be worth having is how this "I may not or would not have bought tickets if it was just a regular show" speaks to the value/popularity/apathy towards the standard "touring Beach Boys" lineup and what the "brand" has become over the years.

I love the music and always will, but the brand is an absolute mess.   

[guitarfool2002]

Why would Al need to apologize to fans for not performing for them July 5th when he'll be in England performing for fans July 5th? Perhaps there is more to the story, right? Or perhaps not.

I can parse and twist words and meanings with the best of 'em, but since we haven't gotten an official word or full explanation publicly as to what happened, unless Al broke a legal contract/agreement to be there, why does he owe an apology?

And for those who are having a tough time finding the negatives against particular members scattered among this board as an almost expected pattern, I'd suggest getting a stronger pair of reading glasses. I'll stay cryptic for now, but it's often a more successful tactic to "accentuate the positive" on what you're promoting than it is to try boosting a legacy or an image by diminishing or casting doubts on another.

You  do know that the United States and the UK/Ireland are on different continents? Not to mention the fact that Jones Beach is a relatively remote location for most people attending that show, and that at least a few people not only bought tickets, but made travel plans based on Al being there? Maybe not a lot of people, but some, including some who would not want to attend a Mike concert in a million years if they didn't think Al would be there due to that gig being publicized as such, including on Al's own website. Yes, Al does owe that particular group of people an apology for putting the gig up on AlJardine.com, at least. People tend to think you will show up for a gig posted on your own website.

Do you know the reasons why Al won't be at Jones Beach? If we're going on hypotheticals and theories until (or if) a formal explanation comes out, we can assume just as much about reasons why Al may have had a valid and legal reason for backing out as he is to blame for not playing the show. Right?

Let's pick a wild, random scenario: You book a band for a local show. The band is told the payment will be $1,000 for an hour-long set. They say "sure, we'll do it". Basic appearance and performance contracts are being drawn up by both parties, if not already in place and signed. You advertise, the band advertises, people start buying tickets.

Then, something happens a few weeks before the show. You can't pay them $1,000. You call the band and say "I can't give you 1,000...but I can give you $650 instead, that's the best I can do." In the interim, the band turned down a booking for that same night assuming they'd get 1,000 to play your gig.

The band is upset, they feel duped and above all the original agreement was changed and the change cost them 350 dollars.

So, that's the band's fault because you aren't going to pay them what you agreed to pay them originally? They should "take it on the chin" and play for the fans, and apologize if they don't? Apologize for what...getting f***ed out of 350 dollars after an agreement was made?

I'm not suggesting this is what happened with Al *IN ANY WAY*, I'm not saying anything beyond presenting a possible scenario and relating it to the kinds of things that happen to bands and musicians on a daily basis.

If someone tells me I'll be paid 100 an hour to play at a gig and a week later they come back and tell me they can't do the 100, the bosses told them it's not in the budget and I can only get 65 for the gig...guess what? I'm angry, I feel duped, and I won't work with that organization.

I sure won't feel like I owe an apology to the people who expected me to play at that gig if someone played games with their offer to the point of me losing money. Or even if a gig that was supposed to be me playing a solo set is now me playing charts for a funk cover band I never worked with. If the people who booked me to play try to lowball me on payment or terms and details of my role at that gig, they owe the people an explanation and apology, not me.

[guitarfool2002]

HeyJude: Points taken, but at the same time where is Mike's explanation or even a statement or comment about Al's appearance July 5th? This is the way Jones Beach was mentioned in the David Beard "Examiner" interview posted June 22, just over a week ago:

Will David Marks will be joining you for Jones Beach Theater concert on Saturday, July 5?

Mike: We’re planning on it, that’s for sure. David and I have had a long friendship. There was one time – when we were in Hawaii in the early days – David was sitting on a balcony, and was getting ready to fall off, and I grabbed his ankle as he was on his way down. He attributes that act as saving his life. Literally. David is a bright and witty person…a lot of fun to be around. I care about David a lot, and we always have had a great relationship.

At least an "elephant in the room" situation here, right? 

In the Rolling Stone article from mid-May, they quoted Mike:

"Year after year, it's been a great source of inspiration to see the happiness our music has brought to multiple generations of Beach Boys fans in so many parts of the world," Mike Love said in a statement. "This summer I’m particularly excited for the Jones Beach show, which is such a terrific, iconic venue. It will be very special to share the stage with some old friends and bandmates, Al Jardine and David Marks."

Right, and just around a month later (give or take a week) the interview with Mike where Jones Beach is mentioned has not a single word about Al, in either the question or the answer.

Doesn't that seem like a pretty glaring omission? Especially when I'd assume most people seeking out and reading these interviews would have read the May interview where Al is mentioned "sharing the stage", and then by June 22 Al isn't even mentioned. That's the "elephant in the room", right?

[KittyKat]

Yep, Mike is to blame no matter what. We get it.

[SurfRiderHawaii]

It was reported on the BBB board on June 9 that Al wouldn't be appearing so I imagine Mike knew that  by then, if not earlier. (Funny, a certain regular poster here disputed that news, even offering to bet people, oh the irony   ).

Point is, Mike knew a month ago and his mgt failed to remove Al from the billing.

[guitarfool2002]

Yep, Mike is to blame no matter what. We get it.

Do you know the reasons why Al won't be at Jones Beach?

[KittyKat]

It was reported on the BBB board on June 6 that Al wouldn't be appearing so I imagine Mike knew that  by then, if not earlier. (Funny, a certain regular poster here disputed that news, even offering to bet people, oh the irony  ).

Point is, Mike knew a month ago and his mgt failed to remove Al from the billing.

And Al failed to remove Jones Beach from his list of upcoming gigs. After that rumor was posted on Beach Boys Britain. If you read that thread on the BBB board, someone even posted there they knew they rumor could not possibly be true, because they went over to check Al's personal website, and the Jones Beach gig was still listed as an upcoming Al Jardine personal appearance, even after that rumor was circulated.  Don't you think Al's management or whoever runs his website should be held to the same standards as Mike's management?

None of the parties should have put Al's name out there (Al, Mike, LiveNation) if there was even a slight possibility that Al might not appear. If it was an informal agreement all along, no matter what happened to make it not happen, they should have had Al just show up and play without advance billing; it would have made for some nice news stories for everyone involved if he would have shown up to play out of the blue. Or at most dropped a hint that "a very special guest may appear." Then, if only Dave showed up, they were covered for a "very special guest" whether Al appeared or not.

[SurfRiderHawaii]

I was excited that Al was playing with Mike and am bummed he is not. In my mind, Al in the band makes the group much more authentic. I really wish Mike and Al could mend the issues that continue to divide them.

[Robbie Mac]

Perhaps but there were people who bought tickets because of the prospect of Al, Mike, Bruce & Dave being on stage together for a one night only show.  That is as close to the C50 lineup as you are going to get without it actually being the C50 lineup.  So you need to factor in the number of fans who purchased tickets because of the prospect of seeing 4/5 Beach Boys onstage together which likely isn't as small as you would think. 

Yep, exactly. I'm still planning to attend the show and I'm not hopping mad or anything, but the "Al & David joining up for one night only" pitch -- a pitch still on the Jones Beach site as we speak -- was very much the reasoning that got me off the fence and convinced me to purchase a ticket.

This is definitely an issue as well. I know there are always shades of grey. The "four on stage" factor could be a strong tipping point but not the only factor, and then when that is taken away, it's kind of iffy about whether it's still worth it.

Yep, right on. (It's also a co-billed show with two other groups I honestly don't particularly care about, so much as I'd like to see any Beach Boys-related show, in my mind it had that working against it too.)

This is not to start anti-Mike rhetoric, but I still think an interesting future discussion that might be worth having is how this "I may not or would not have bought tickets if it was just a regular show" speaks to the value/popularity/apathy towards the standard "touring Beach Boys" lineup and what the "brand" has become over the years.

I love the music and always will, but the brand is an absolute mess.   

That last sentence is the first sensible comment spoken about Jones Beach-gate.