The Smiley Smile Message Board

I really hate that beach boys logo. the one on the GV box was far better...
had the beach boys made a good dancing album in late 70's glitzy style then that style would be fine I guess, but it's hardly hinted at on 15BO and doesn't really represent the 'sound' of the group except  Here Comes The Night (1979)

I know Mike will let Al add Honkin Down the Highway and Lookin at Tomorrow for sure.  :lol

It's like they want a definitive typeface like the Beatles have, only this is The Beach Boys and they somehow make everything they do laughable. It's not even from an era when these guys made any hits...yet it now represents their image on CDs, concert posters, t-shirts, etc. Oy vey.

And "the professor" should be adding his two cents (about how Melinda is keeping Brian from reuniting with Mike and how five 70 years should get in a room against their will to make music for him) in three, two......


Nah but for real, good to see Al is working with Mike. It was awesome to see him working with Brian in the photos last week, and now this with Mike. So at least it looks like most of the group is cool with each other. Now if the Brian/Mike thing could get worked out, who knows??? Maybe we'll get some more stuff from the real Beach Boys. Probably not this year or next. But probably just in time for 2016. Which conveniently is going to be the 50th anniversary of Pet Sounds. Which sure sounds to me like a great idea to reunite again!

And "the professor" should be adding his two cents (about how Melinda is keeping Brian from reuniting with Mike and how five 70 years should get in a room against their will to make music for him) in three, two......


Nah but for real, good to see Al is working with Mike. It was awesome to see him working with Brian in the photos last week, and now this with Mike. So at least it looks like most of the group is cool with each other. Now if the Brian/Mike thing could get worked out, who knows??? Maybe we'll get some more stuff from the real Beach Boys. Probably not this year or next. But probably just in time for 2016. Which conveniently is going to be the 50th anniversary of Pet Sounds. Which sure sounds to me like a great idea to reunite again!

I really hate that beach boys logo. the one on the GV box was far better...
had the beach boys made a good dancing album in late 70's glitzy style then that style would be fine I guess, but it's hardly hinted at on 15BO and doesn't really represent the 'sound' of the group except  Here Comes The Night (1979)

Dammit, I wish I'd thought of that.   ;D

PET SOUNDS 50th TOUR 2016 ;D

(Nothing would surprise me after this year)

Rock & Roll Music - #5
15 Big Ones - #8
It's OK - #29

"Are we seeing a masterplan unfolding ?", he mused Idly to himself.  ::)

Perfect gig for Al to finally debut "Strange Things Happen" live!

http://members.tripod.com/~fun_fun_fun/11-22-93.html (http://members.tripod.com/~fun_fun_fun/11-22-93.html)

My question -- who shows up for the Rascals and Spoonful?  Would have like to have seen this gig in 1966!

I believe the Rascals are in fact all of the original members.

...and look at the picture Live Nation are using for the gig. Doubtful now myself.

http://www.livenation.com/events/363399-jul-5-2014-the-beach-boys

Al needs to pick a side

WHY?

So my question remains...if David joins up, it's basically the Beach Boys reunited minus Brian...so how would those of you who side 100% with Brian vs M&B (for the record, I prefer them all together) feel about such a development?

So my question remains...if David joins up, it's basically the Beach Boys reunited minus Brian...so how would those of you who side 100% with Brian vs M&B (for the record, I prefer them all together) feel about such a development?

Al needs to pick a side

I find it so stupid that he just plays with mike and bruce every few years...

Maybe he has. That he's playing with Mike & Bruce on July 5th in the US makes it hugely unlikely (but not utterly impossible: these are The Beach Boys, after all) that he'll be going with Brian for the two British Isles shows.

Al needs to pick a side

And "the professor" should be adding his two cents (about how Melinda is keeping Brian from reuniting with Mike and how five 70 years should get in a room against their will to make music for him) in three, two......


Nah but for real, good to see Al is working with Mike. It was awesome to see him working with Brian in the photos last week, and now this with Mike. So at least it looks like most of the group is cool with each other. Now if the Brian/Mike thing could get worked out, who knows??? Maybe we'll get some more stuff from the real Beach Boys. Probably not this year or next. But probably just in time for 2016. Which conveniently is going to be the 50th anniversary of Pet Sounds. Which sure sounds to me like a great idea to reunite again!

I thought Sebastian toured with The Spoonful?! That is so weird he doesn't, Sebastian is the band to me considering he wrote and sang all of their best stuff.

I'd be entirely happy with an arrangement with a full touring Beach Boys and Brian staying at home working on their next album.  Cuz, y'know, it's worked before!

Cheers,
Jon Blum

Is it too early to refer a Bruce, Al and Mike line-up as BAM? ;D

Also as the powers that be check these boards out I am surprised no correction or retraction has been sent out from Live Nation. Maybe there is something too it after all.

Going by AGD's posts I don't think there will be any retractions, as this is happening!  I've also said here many times that the Boys probably don't have as big an issue with each other as some people may think.  Maybe they'll do a run of Pet Sounds shows at the RFH, or somewhere similar, in London in 2016.   In the meantime, I hope the BAM Boys come to the UK soon for a mini tour (with David too).

Correct: the Boys don't have too much problem with each other on a personal basis.

From what I hear Christian Love is leaving the band, so the touring Beach Boys will need another guitar on stage!

If I read correctly, this confirms my (uninformed) guess that the end of the 2012 celebration is the result, or the effect of some sort of girl fight. It's the wives!

If this is true i'm somewhat surprised Mike didn't go to Dave first given the past history in this touring band but i guess Al's voice does fit in a little better when replacing Christian.

Normally Christian sings the verse to Good Vibrations, and he sounds great - his voice suits it. Who would take over in his absence? Cuz if it were Al, that would be really, really cool.

Founding member leaves group. Spot filled by replacement.

Replacement leaves group. Spot filled by founding member.

Not the norm in R&R!

No. I'm sorry, but this is not healthy thinking. It's disappointing to me that THEY are getting all caught up in these ego games, let's not join in as fans and lend weight to EITHER side of this silliness. The way I see it, Al has three sides to pick from in this situation. One, Brian's. Two, Mike and Bruce's. Three, The Music. By picking Three, (The Music) He goes where, and when, he's asked.

Also, he can't join either side permanently, if he's not asked to do so.

Because Al is an original member, they can't get away with paying him a sideman's cut. Shamefully, this seems to be what all this silliness is hinging on.

Please don't think of this as a personal attack. We are all brothers in our love for this bands music.

 :)

Man no one to sing Carl's part on Kokomo! Guess they're gonna have to cut that from the set ;)

So the 14 piece band, Brian's tour requirements and his health never came into it?

This is exciting! I hope it works out. Now I don't see why David can't be added too, him and Scott can trade leads!

AS for Christians vocals, last summer he sang "Getcha Back" "Then I Kissed Her" and "Good Vibrations". Obviously the first should be done by Mike in the first place, but if they never played this again I don't think anyone would run home crying. The second was Al's lead anyway, and the latter has been done by Randell Kirsch in the past. So this would be a very easy transition!

Never cared much for Christian....he has the stage presence of a celery stick.

Never cared much for Christian....he has the stage presence of a celery stick.

Can't say I disagree with this assessment.

Can't say I disagree with this assessment.

We need an insider to let us know what's going on.  Scott Totten, are you reading this?  Somebody?

Confirm what's going on in Beach Boys camp? Confirm what's going on in Brian's camp?

There's some Beach Boys gigs coming up in the Bay Area and Tahoe.  Doubt that Al (and Foskett) or David will be there, but if they are, I might spring for tickets.

They haven't learned a thing. :'(

Hm. This is not personel change. Foskett was Brian's de facto assistant and bodyguard for many years. He was his security blanket on stage; Brian's demo singer, etc. This is a falling out of epic proportions.

Hm. This is not personel change. Foskett was Brian's de facto assistant and bodyguard for many years. He was his security blanket on stage; Brian's demo singer, etc. This is a falling out of epic proportions.

How about Ray Lawlor?  He must know what's going on.

Hm. This is not personel change. Foskett was Brian's de facto assistant and bodyguard for many years. He was his security blanket on stage; Brian's demo singer, etc. This is a falling out of epic proportions.

Here is what I know. When I read this I called Brian; got him at the studio and he was pretty preoccupied . When I told him about Jeff he did not know about it but he said :"REALLY??  Godd..nit that's great for Jeff; he loves the Beach Boys , he'll be great with them. ". He was working on one of the tracks on the new album.  I do know there is a fall tour in the planning stages with the full band; I saw someone posted something about Darian not being around; Darian is working on the musical stuff in "Love and Mercy" he's not going anywhere. Those guys love Brian !

For Ray:

Jeff has been away from Brian for a couple of months now. I'm surprised Brian acts so surprised to hear that he's not "with him" anymore, at least for now. I have a feeling he DOES know what's going on.

Ray, I remember a couple of years ago that you kinda played down the fact that Brian had back issues. I know what I saw in June of that year, and Brian did not look good at all physically. You said he was subsequently operated on and things were a lot better. Seems a lot of the pictures I see lately are of Brian sitting down. He likes to sit down. And he seems to have gained weight. Are you still saying Brian is in good physical shape, at least as far as you can say? If Brian tours this Fall, I'll be a little surprised......

Mickie,

What I said was that Brian did not know Jeff had become a full time member of the touring Beach Boys; not that Jeff hadn't been around for a few months.

I do remember your post from 2012 ; it was at the Jones Beach show I believe.  Yes, Brian had just had a procedure done on his back and subsequently ,after C50 had a more serious procedure to further alleviate the problem. He is much better now and says it doesnt hurt him anymore As far as his weight; he was well "up there" during C50 but I believe he has lost some weight since then; I can't vouch for that as I haven't seen him in a few months as I live in New York and haven't been out to LA .

If there is a chair to sit in within 30 yards Brian will find it.  Nothing new about that !

As far as the tour ; he is going to the UK and Ireland in July, so I don't see why there wouldn't be a fall tour.

Cheers Ray

Ray, thanks for the clarification.  By the way, can I come over to your house and hear those Lucky Old Sun demos you were talking about last week? I'll bring my own food and wine/beer.   :)

Here is what I know. When I read this I called Brian; got him at the studio and he was pretty preoccupied . When I told him about Jeff he did not know about it but he said :"REALLY??  Godd..nit that's great for Jeff; he loves the Beach Boys , he'll be great with them. ". He was working on one of the tracks on the new album.  I do know there is a fall tour in the planning stages with the full band; I saw someone posted something about Darian not being around; Darian is working on the musical stuff in "Love and Mercy" he's not going anywhere. Those guys love Brian !

… unless Jeff Foskett also puts in an appearance    :o

From the petoskey article:

How do you think the Beach Boys would “go over” in today’s music industry?

I think we’d be OK if we had the right producer. Country music is an area of landscape music these days that provides a great opportunity for great song value and that’s what is important. As long as there is an outlet for great songs, we would do well. As long as you have a subject matter to relate to and an audience that enjoys it, we’d be all right.




Stars & stripes vol. 2?

and Joe's just autotunin them ready for mixing.

I nominate this for "Most Hilarious Foreshadowing of the Month".

It's like they want a definitive typeface like the Beatles have, only this is The Beach Boys and they somehow make everything they do laughable. It's not even from an era when these guys made any hits...yet it now represents their image on CDs, concert posters, t-shirts, etc. Oy vey.

I think that's a pretty groovy typeface. I prefer it to the Beatles one, actually.

(http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.a/6a00d8341c630a53ef0147e2c0586f970b-pi)

(http://www.sergent.com.au/beachboys/tenyearsharmony.jpg)

What's the grit rating for this CD cover - P12?

What's the grit rating for this CD cover - P12?

Comment re the BB coca cola logo;  didn't they start using that around the time they were hanging with Chicago who have a very similar looking logo?

You're not too far off. If I can recall correctly, I think I started seeing it around 1971 or 1972.

Are you decorating?

Sort of.  Kicked off about 4 years ago but not sure where I'm up to, or if anything's been achieved.

Once when buying sandpaper, the shop guy said what grit rating - I says "Wha?" and he showed me many types, one that looked just like the above CD cover background.

I'm a bit like this, but (obviously) 1000 times less amusing than these chaps: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YmHtISRcz0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YmHtISRcz0)

Back on subtopic, the Ten Years Logo / typeface is a personal favourite - Caribou certainly had a sharp art department/contractor.  It must taken ages to write all those lyrics out in that style, and not one ink smudge in sight.

Getting a bit back on topic, despite adding Al and David, w/ two other legacy bands on the bill and with the upper section closed, they've barely sold 20% of the tickets for the show thus far. I've also heard commercials for the gig on local radio...Clearly, if they want to graduate up to the bigger venues again they need the big guy on board!  :)

Does the venue or promoter actually release sales numbers? I’m curious how we know they’ve only sold 20%. In any event, if this is in fact the case, it presents a couple of theories (very much just theories): Did Mike add Al and David to the show because sales were sagging? I’m not even sure of the timeline in terms of when tickets went on sale, so I don’t know if this is an actual possibility. Also, if publicizing (to some degree; I don’t know if Al or Mike have even announced this on their facebook, etc.) Al and Dave being added has not helped ticket sales, I do wonder if that would reinforce the idea to Mike that there’s little or no economic benefit to adding those guys to the band.

One of my hesitations with the Jones Beach show is that there are two other bands on the bill, but the show has a normal (7:30) start time and shows there typically end no later than 10:30/11. I realize we are a bit spoiled here, but Jones Beach is kind of a trek to make from NYC if the BBs set is not a full set.

One of my hesitations with the Jones Beach show is that there are two other bands on the bill, but the show has a normal (7:30) start time and shows there typically end no later than 10:30/11. I realize we are a bit spoiled here, but Jones Beach is kind of a trek to make from NYC if the BBs set is not a full set.

I've always really liked the logo.  It's distinctive and memorable, it's also fun to doodle on notepads.  But it does admittedly remind me more of the 15 Big Ones era Beach Boys rather than the band in their heyday.  I don't think it would have looked appropriate on their early albums.  But then again, the Rolling Stones lips and tongue logo would look out of place on their early ABKCO albums as well and I think that image is iconic.

I like this one they used for the 1993 box set too.

(http://www.sonic.net/~dsktracy/bbstuff/Miscellaneous/Good%20Vibrations%20box%20set%20decal%20(1993).jpg)

Both logos by Dean Torrence (of Jan & Dean for those who don't know). So that could be a reason for the similarity.

My guess for set times:

7:30 - 8:00
8:15 - 9:00
9:15 - 11:00

How many more chances are you going to get to see 4 of The Beach Boys on the same stage?

Dean Torrence didn't design the Chicago logo. John Berg did.

It's a good question and more than fair. I love these guys and if the show were in Manhattan it would be a no-brainer. As it is, Jones Beach is about a 2-hour trek for me each way (subway > two LIRR trains > spotty local bus service), thus the overall time commitment is a bit more to juggle. Believe me, would love to be there and will if I can.

It's a good question and more than fair. I love these guys and if the show were in Manhattan it would be a no-brainer. As it is, Jones Beach is about a 2-hour trek for me each way (subway > two LIRR trains > spotty local bus service), thus the overall time commitment is a bit more to juggle. Believe me, would love to be there and will if I can.

I like that he takes a straight approach to the issue and doesn't pussyfoot around it.

And....How's that working out for Al?

It does make Al seem hypocritical, though, to appear on stage with Mike if he feels that way about it. Even for only one time.

I hope this is allowed but here...

http://www.boards2go.com/boards/board.cgi?action=read&id=1402323800.89631&user=bellagio

I for one would be very upset considering i already purchased tickets!

I hope this is allowed but here...

http://www.boards2go.com/boards/board.cgi?action=read&id=1402323800.89631&user=bellagio

I for one would be very upset considering i already purchased tickets!

The Jones Beach show is still listed on Al's website.

It kinda feels like getting  hired!

From FB:
Al Jardine
9 minutes ago
Despite some reports to the contrary, I am not touring with Mike Love and the Beach Boys this summer. I will, however, be joining Brian Wilson on July 4th in Cork, Ireland and July 5th at the Hop Farm Music Festival in Kent, England. I'm also planning to go out with my own band later this year. Thanks for all your support, Al

Kind of disappointed that Al couldn't do this one show. Really lame of him.

From FB:
Al Jardine
9 minutes ago
Despite some reports to the contrary, I am not touring with Mike Love and the Beach Boys this summer. I will, however, be joining Brian Wilson on July 4th in Cork, Ireland and July 5th at the Hop Farm Music Festival in Kent, England. I'm also planning to go out with my own band later this year. Thanks for all your support, Al

I guess AGD needs to get some better insider contacts.  ;D

Seriously, Al says he isn't touring with the BBs. Still leaves the door open for Jones Beach though that now sounds like a no because Al didn't confirm it.

What is wrong with Al?  I'm sorry, but if you allow a promoter to use your name for a show, you should show up for it.  I don't get him. If he hates Mike, then don't agree to do the show or even open talks about it to begin with. Matt Jardine is also a big boy and doesn't need his daddy around for support.

What is wrong with Al?  I'm sorry, but if you allow a promoter to use your name for a show, you should show up for it.  I don't get him. If he hates Mike, then don't agree to do the show or even open talks about it to begin with. Matt Jardine is also a big boy and doesn't need his daddy around for support.

I wonder what the conversations about this show were like between Mike and Al. If it really had as much or more to do with sagging ticket sales (e.g. add more “original” members to try to sell more tickets for this one show), maybe Al didn’t like that idea?

Jones Beach is also on July 5

Al's name was on the show poster, advertised directly to people via Ticketmaster e-mail, and the gig was promoted in "Rolling Stone" magazine. If Al had a time to speak up, it was then, which was weeks ago. There's really no excuse for Al's behavior in this. He should have said something before more people bought tickets to it. Instead, he remained completely silent for weeks. The Beach Boys should allow refunds to any ticket buyers who bought based on Al being there. And Al should apologize for not speaking up much, much sooner.

There was clearly more stuff going on behind the scenes that might not have allowed for such a statement until now.

What is wrong with Al?  I'm sorry, but if you allow a promoter to use your name for a show, you should show up for it.  I don't get him. If he hates Mike, then don't agree to do the show or even open talks about it to begin with. Matt Jardine is also a big boy and doesn't need his daddy around for support.

There was clearly more stuff going on behind the scenes that might not have allowed for such a statement until now. Let's wait until more information trickles out before tarring and feathering either Mike or Al.

This from the guy that started the thread... :)

 ::)

Maybe Alan can do Brian's show, and Brian can play with Mike. You heard it here first.  ;D

And, of course, Brian and hiswifeandmanagers would never do that...

What more needs to trickle out, apart from maybe a clarification if Al had signed an agreement to do the gig? If Al had signed anything resembling a written agreement to do the show, and he pulled out after his involvement was sold to consumers buying tickets to the event, he'd be at the least in breach of contract and could rightfully be on the hook financially for that broken agreement. If the companies promoting this show went ahead and advertised Al on the bill, and Al had not signed anything agreeing to it, that's on those promoters...and if fans bought tickets to see Al at the show, they're on the hook to any fans who might feel ripped off.

Only in Beach Boys land, right?

Al only got to do three or four songs during his Jeff Beck tour with Brian, and only that many during the reunion shows, so I'm sure he would get the same amount for his single Beach Boys gig with Mike, had it come to pass.  As for his own solo career, it seems to be all over the place and poorly publicized. He's doing a free show in a tiny town in Idaho on June 28, with Dean Torrence. He's doing "Aquapalooza," a show that's only open to boaters in the Chicago area. He didn't really do much advance public notice for his Atlantic City show. He really needs to get his act together in terms of publicity for his solo shows and planning tours.

While Al has never had a ton of leads in Brian’s shows either, the Beck tour sets he played were shorter than a typical Mike/Bruce show. In other words, would Mike have Al singing anything that isn’t already in the setlist? We’d get Rhonda, Sloop, maybe something else.

Mike and Al probably get along better than fans know. Al supported Mike at the Ella Awards. Mike was grateful and Alan probably feels he doesn't owe Mike anything. This was a major PR screw-up though.

(http://weblogs.sun-sentinel.com/entertainment/thingstodo/marx-bros.jpg)

Right, but at the same time consider all of the legal and operational issues that get hashed out through contracts, contract riders, travel plans, hotel bookings and arrangements, right down to things as basic as having Al's musical equipment like his guitar(s), amps, and whatever else he uses on stage to perform being shipped to the venue for a gig.

If it were a simple case of Al saying "I'll do the gig" and hopping on a plane, that would be nice. But the amount of planning, agreements, having lawyers and the like go over any agreements or demands and even how a show will be advertised and sold makes this whole July 5th debacle seem even more bizarre.

And again, if Al did in fact sign papers and agree to play Jones Beach, he's on the hook, simple as that.

Al's name was on the show poster, advertised directly to people via Ticketmaster e-mail, and the gig was promoted in "Rolling Stone" magazine. If Al had a time to speak up, it was then, which was weeks ago. There's really no excuse for Al's behavior in this. He should have said something before more people bought tickets to it. Instead, he remained completely silent for weeks. The Beach Boys should allow refunds to any ticket buyers who bought based on Al being there. And Al should apologize for not speaking up much, much sooner.

Last time I saw Al, everyone in the band played via a rented backline (including Al).

 

If it's $ he wants (because I don't believe for a second he's touring because he gives one sh*t about the band's history / legacy or "brand") he would make a hell of a lot more cha-ching by touring as a believable form of the Beach Boys and that means at least Al, better with Al and David and ultimately, with Brian.

Just received a Live Nation e-mail:

(http://i57.tinypic.com/357k8ck.jpg)

The Beach Boys
with Felix Cavaliere's Rascals and
The Lovin' Spoonful

Saturday, July 5
Nikon at Jones Beach Theater

...More to come? Where's David?

As of the time I'm posting this, the publicity info for the show has not changed.  The current show info uses the original poster, listing Al Jardine, with this info:

"The Beach Boys will embark on an extensive tour celebrating the 50th anniversary of their hit song “Fun, Fun, Fun”. The only original member of the group that will be touring with the band is Mike Love, though longtime keyboardist/singer Bruce Johnston will be joining them on the road. Additionally, the band will team up with original members Al Jardine and David Mark for a special gig at Jones Beach, Long Island, NY on July 5th with special guests Felix Cavaliere's Rascals & The Lovin' Spoonful. The Beach Boys will make their way to over 50 locations the United States and Europe over the course of the year. The tour will also feature singer/guitarist Jeffrey Foskett, who will be replacing Love’s son Christian in the band. Foskett was a touring member of The Beach Boys in the ’80s and has steadily worked with Brian Wilson since his comeback in the ’90s. The band plans to announce more American and international dates later this year. The surviving classic members of The Beach Boys—Love, Jardine, Marks, Wilson, Johnston and Foskett—have not performed together since the band’s 2012 50th anniversary tour, which featured stops at Bonnaroo and The Hollywood Bowl. The group also released That’s Why God Made The Radio, their first album of original material in 20 years. Jardine, Marks and Foskett all toured with Wilson last year and even surprised fans with a complete performance of Pet Sounds at New York’s Beacon Theatre in October."

http://jonesbeach.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=430:the-beach-boys-july-5-2014&catid=56:concerts-2014&Itemid=100054

Right on, Al! Given a choice, I know which show I'd see.

We're...for our team, yeah
You'll never lose it, to us you're still number one!

Semi-related: Maybe this has been addressed, but who is singing lead for the Spoonful if John Sebastian isn't with them?

I don't know enough about The Spoonful, but the current lineup is: Steve Boone   Joe Butler   Jerry Yester

Mike Arturi   Phil Smith

What if Brian threatened to pull Al's tracks from his album? Maybe that explains the rather last minute guest artists. Or perhaps Al felt it could be a threat to not be able to work with Brian in the future. Al was using both Mike and Brian in a game of football, or they were using him, or both.

It takes a minimum of three weeks to process a work permit to visit the UK for performing. I'm not sure how long for Ireland. Though I guess with Al's clean prison record, he could have applied just last week or so and not have had to worry about it.

What if Brian threatened to pull Al's tracks from his album? Maybe that explains the rather last minute guest artists. Or perhaps Al felt it could be a threat to not be able to work with Brian in the future. Al was using both Mike and Brian in a game of football, or they were using him, or both.

Am I dense, or did Al not say he was backing out of this show, but rather he wasn't touring with The Bruce Boys?

Maybe he has. That he's playing with Mike & Bruce on July 5th in the US makes it hugely unlikely (but not utterly impossible: these are The Beach Boys, after all) that he'll be going with Brian for the two British Isles shows.

I'm disappointed and upset given I only bought tickets because I thought Al was gonna be there! Now I'm stuck with tickets for a concert 4 hours away and no Al!

What is wrong with Al?  I'm sorry, but if you allow a promoter to use your name for a show, you should show up for it.

I'm disappointed and upset given I only bought tickets because I thought Al was gonna be there! Now I'm stuck with tickets for a concert 4 hours away and no Al!

By the same token, if someone was promoting the gig without a firm legally binding assurance that Al was to appear, that's where the fault lies. Al might not have left Red Barn for several months and might not have been aware of the publicity. (That's just me speculating btw…)

I agree that it should have all been signed and sealed before it was announced.

But I can`t believe at all that Al could have been oblivious to the fact that it had been announced that he was playing a show with Mike.

It's not like it's the first time Al has done this. He was announced as a "special guest" for Brian's European tour in, I believe, 2008. His name was even on the ticket I bought for the show in Amsterdam. But he didn't show up.

Like I've said already, I'm sure there were behind the scenes discussions that were going on the whole time. And now the joke that Al made at the AC show makes that much more sense. He'd been very positive about Mike since the Ella Awards up until that moment so something clearly went afoot between the two of them between this Jones Beach PR that Mike's team put out and prior to the AC show.

Is it unprofessional of Al to not show up for a show he was billed as attending and had ostensibly agreed to do? Yes, a bit.
Do we know the circumstances and agreements (or lack thereof) that lead to his name being put on the bill (while David's is still absent) and subsequent PR? No, we don't.

Until we know a little more information, why don't we all just keep calm and listen to Pet Sounds, eh? And for those that bought tickets on condition of Al being there, call Jones Beach/Live Nation and absolutely demand a refund. I'm sure they'll be accommodating and maybe you'll find out some information from the promoters standpoint in doing so...

FWIW, ticket sales are still very poor for the show: http://concerts.livenation.com/event/1D004C96A49ED655.

It's not like it's the first time Al has done this. He was announced as a "special guest" for Brian's European tour in, I believe, 2008. His name was even on the ticket I bought for the show in Amsterdam. But he didn't show up. After that, Al promised on his website that everyone who would send in a ticket stub would get a free copy of his solo cd once it was released. Never got that either.

I thought Brian's people kicked Al off the tour, not that Al left the tour. Or it was an equal type of thing where both decided that Al needed to leave the tour before it got to Europe. It was never made clear what the dispute was, whether it was over money or what.  In any case, yes, it does show that Al has had past problems playing with Brian, so this isn't the first time he had disagreements with fellow Beach Boys in regards to appearing with them.

GEE!!  Sure makes sense to me. As much as it seems a crime now to even suggest that Mike/ HIS management) is/was lying, how else does this play out? 

 WHY in the world should it be Al's responsibility to deny he's playing somewhere that he hasn't agreed to. Just because this happens to be Mike's BBs?!?

 If Steve and the Strumpets start advertising that Al Jardine of the BBs is playing with them,does Al have to deny it? If every/any band in the world announces the same thing, will Al be forced to spend all his time making announcements that "NO, I'm not playing with so & so" ? It's ludicrous. 

 The fault here is obviously with Mike Love/ the Jones Beach promoters.

NOT AL JARDINE

I'm seriously starting to not like these Beach Boys. It's too much work to support them.

I thought Brian's people kicked Al off the tour, not that Al left the tour. Or it was an equal type of thing where both decided that Al needed to leave the tour before it got to Europe. It was never made clear what the dispute was, whether it was over money or what.  In any case, yes, it does show that Al has had past problems playing with Brian, so this isn't the first time he had disagreements with fellow Beach Boys in regards to appearing with them.

Let's examine the possible scenarios here.

Fact: the Jones Beach show with Alan & David taking part was first announced on May 5th. That's 48 days ago.

1 - Alan never agreed to do it...

OK, black mark to Mike for doing that, but also to Alan for not saying right away "no, I'm not", but rather waiting six weeks to set things straight when he knew tickets with his name on them were still on sale.

2 - Alan agreed verbally then changed his mind (for whatever reason)...

Again, why wait so long ? And btw, a verbal agreement is legally binding.

3 - Alan signed on the dotted line then changed his mind...

Be this so, and I have no proof one way or another, someone with the initials ACJ is in a deal of legal doo-doo.

That no-one has said anything until yesterday leads me to believe that (assuming #1 isn't the case), Alan's change of heart was very recent. Oh, and they weren't "rumours". Rumours aren't listed on your own website, or on Ticketmaster, or on the BBFC website. As ever, there's a cracking tale to be told here and, frankly, while no-one's covered in glory here Alan is arguably the most at fault for not saying right off "that's not true"... or for changing his mind at such a late stage.

Sometimes these guys make my hair hurt.

I would guess it's somewhere between reason 1 and 2 if I had to guess.

As for "verbal contracts", that's an EXTREMELY grey area of law. The reason you get people to sign stuff is because verbal contacts are hard to enforce.

David has just re-confirmed on facebook that he is playing at Jones Beach.

And now there's another development. Because of the success that Brian has had with the "album based" tours like the ones for Pet Sounds and SMiLE, the legendary trio that that gave us the classic album Mike Love, Bruce "Beach Lover, NASCAR Lover" Johnston and David Marks of the Beach Boys Salute NASCAR have decided to come together for this one show to perform that album in it's entirety. Boy, am I excited! Grab your tickets now!

(http://www.bootlegzone.com/beatleg/discs/scans/bbsnas001-main.jpg)

Actually, they are performing that album in its entirety. Well, almost. ;) This is the album's tracklist:

01  I Get Around
02  Little Deuce Coupe
03  Little Old Lady From Pasadena
04  409
05  Shut Down
06  Little G.T.O.
07  Ballad Of Ole' Betsy
08  Little Honda
09  Fun, Fun, Fun
10  Don't Worry Baby

I'm seriously starting to not like these Beach Boys. It's too much work to support them.

So Al appears culpable. But has Brian (or his WyfenManagers) also been maliciously manipulative in luring Al away from the MykenBruce show - and with what, money? The chance to play new music with Brian? The chance to perform with Matt and Jeff again?

I do believe - speculative as it is - that Al is far more motivated by the prospect of good music than Mike. That is, that for Mike it's a matter of belting out good songs for a living, while Al enjoys performing great songs and that happens to earn him a living at the same time.

Brian, I believe, plays live and continues to record because music is in his veins and he is music. But he's bein steered, and the motivations of his helmsman are politically driven - why else gather Al, Dave and Blondie together on the last tour with Jeff Beck other than to state to Mike that Brian can assemble more Beach Boys together on stage - four - than the Beach Boys?

And now this luring of Al away from Beach Boys gig has sunk Mike's shot at doing the same.

My head's all over the place just thinking about the implications, but the bottom line is that our band the good ship Beach Boys is now, well and truly, SCUTTLED.

I do believe - speculative as it is - that Al is far more motivated by the prospect of good music than Mike. That is, that for Mike it's a matter of belting out good songs for a living, while Al enjoys performing great songs and that happens to earn him a living at the same time.

At Westlake Audio in March 1985, I told Alan "California Calling" was a good song and sounded like "California Saga". His response ? "Yeah, but that didn't make much money did it ?" I think that $$$ is as much of a motivating factor as it is with Mike Iand Mike at least has an excuse).

…has Brian (or his WyfenManagers) also been maliciously manipulative in luring Al away from the MykenBruce show - and with what, money? The chance to play new music with Brian? The chance to perform with Matt and Jeff again?

At Westlake Audio in March 1985, I told Alan "California Calling" was a good song and sounded like "California Saga". His response ? "Yeah, but that didn't make much money did it ?" I think that $$$ is as much of a motivating factor as it is with Mike (and Mike at least has an excuse).

And we ought to bear in mind that that was best part of 30 years ago, when Al was a participating member of, and financially dependent on, a band that was still creatively active. 

And we ought to bear in mind that that was best part of 30 years ago, when Al was a participating member of, and financially dependent on, a band that was still creatively active.  These days I regard him (rightly or wrongly) semi-retired, as be ought to be at his age, with no financial worries, and able to pick and choose what he wants to do with his time in the basis of how much pleasure it brings rather than doing what pays the bills.

And if that means playing with Matt and Brian because be enjoys it, or because it pisses off the guy who sacked him from his band in the first place, then that's up to him.

Am I thinking too much here?

Not so - back then he had another, not-inconsiderable, income stream.

I've been avoiding posting for a year, because of all the arguments, and I'll probably avoid posting here for another year after this, but I just thought it odd that with all this talk of who's to blame, no-one had mentioned an important fact:
Al doesn't say that he's not playing Jones Beach, as such, he says "I am not touring with Mike Love and the Beach Boys this summer"
This suggests a rather plausible (and almost certainly wrong) scenario to me:
It suggests that at some point in the last few months there were moves to get Al back in the band full time, that those moves have collapsed, and that the Jones Beach show was seen by at least one side as part of the package.
It could be as simple, and with as little fault on either side, as Mike saying to Al "OK, we'll think about having you back in the band. We're doing a big show on the weekend of the Fourth, how about you come along and do that and we'll see how it goes after that?"
Al agrees, but then they can't come to a contractual agreement on the terms for him to rejoin the band, and Al sees the Jones Beach show not as a one-off show that's been announced with him, but as the start of the summer tour he was going to be involved in and now isn't.
That would fit all the (public) facts, would explain the wording of Al's statement, and would not involve anyone being deliberately petty, malicious, or stupid. Which means it's almost certainly wrong, of course, because the sensible explanation is almost always false with these people, but it's an explanation that would allow us to presume good will until the facts come out...

I've been avoiding posting for a year, because of all the arguments, and I'll probably avoid posting here for another year after this, but I just thought it odd that with all this talk of who's to blame, no-one had mentioned an important fact:
Al doesn't say that he's not playing Jones Beach, as such, he says "I am not touring with Mike Love and the Beach Boys this summer"
This suggests a rather plausible (and almost certainly wrong) scenario to me:
It suggests that at some point in the last few months there were moves to get Al back in the band full time, that those moves have collapsed, and that the Jones Beach show was seen by at least one side as part of the package.
It could be as simple, and with as little fault on either side, as Mike saying to Al "OK, we'll think about having you back in the band. We're doing a big show on the weekend of the Fourth, how about you come along and do that and we'll see how it goes after that?"
Al agrees, but then they can't come to a contractual agreement on the terms for him to rejoin the band, and Al sees the Jones Beach show not as a one-off show that's been announced with him, but as the start of the summer tour he was going to be involved in and now isn't.
That would fit all the (public) facts, would explain the wording of Al's statement, and would not involve anyone being deliberately petty, malicious, or stupid. Which means it's almost certainly wrong, of course, because the sensible explanation is almost always false with these people, but it's an explanation that would allow us to presume good will until the facts come out...

In response to Andrew Hickey's speculation that there might've been negotiations in the last few months to have Al rejoin the band full-time, and in response to ToneBender631's post in another thread about how it might feel for somebody like Al and Brian to not be part of the "final act"....

I mentioned it a few weeks ago that I thought it was perfect timing for Al to rejoin the band when Christian Love recently left. I'm still wondering if Al also thought it was perfect timing, maybe expected to rejoin the band, and was/is bitterly disappointed when Jeff Foskett got the job.

I'm probably wrong, not because of the number of gigs that Mike & Bruce play, but probably because Mike has a gut instinct that he (Mike) and Al can't co-exist in a band full-time anymore.

I wonder who would have the power in the band if Al rejoined? Mike has the license to tour with the name, and as such is the guy who makes all the decisions in the current incarnation. If another member of BRI is part of the group, do they then have equal say as a BRI member, or does it work as "You're a paid employee of Mike Love's band which is licensing the BB name? Or does it immediately shift to "Mike and Al are licensing the name, with equal royalties and say on the daily business of the touring band, while paying out to BRI"?

I wonder who would have the power in the band if Al rejoined? Mike has the license to tour with the name, and as such is the guy who makes all the decisions in the current incarnation. If another member of BRI is part of the group, do they then have equal say as a BRI member, or does it work as "You're a paid employee of Mike Love's band which is licensing the BB name"? Or does it immediately shift to "Mike and Al are licensing the name, with equal royalties and say on the daily business of the touring band, while paying out to BRI"?

Also, thinking about all of this makes it really sad that neither Bruce nor Dennis' estate still has a vote (ideally one but not both) in BRI as I would imagine that an odd number of voters would make it much easier to get business done as a group...

If Al were to rejoin (obviously hypothetical now) then it would be up to Mike to agree to the details. He obviously wouldn`t agree to give Al an equal share so Al would be a paid employee essentially, albeit with the complication of his being a % receiving member of BRI thrown into the mix.

I don`t think having another member of BRI would have helped things much. Since Mike was given the exclusive right to tour in a 3 to 1 vote there doesn`t seem to have been any real talk of that changing other than on here.  :)

The issue with the name is that even if Brian backed Al, the parties would still be deadlocked, and it seems unlikely that Carl's estate would give up a predictable revenue stream.

I suspect that Al is not cool with semi-retirement, and that it hurts like hell for him not to be in the band he helped create. It's easy for folks online to say he should play small clubs under his own name, but why should he give up the band when he was there for decades?

Clearly Al thought there was an opening to going back with Mike -- but I think to Al it wasn't about being with Mike. It was about making the group "The Beach Boys" again, in the fullest way possible. (That's after it became clear that the BAD tour wasn't going to mount any legal challenge for the name -- and after Brian being somewhat blah about the whole affair.) When it became clear that wasn't in the cards, I don't think Al had much motivation to do a one-off show.

Unless Al just feeds off chaos, I don't know why he doesn't just put together a band and play clubs as himself. He has a fantastic, youthful voice and plenty of his own and Beach Boys material, and folk stuff to draw from. Mike couldn't do that! Brian can't do anything but be THE GREAT BRAIN WILSON (even if he wanted to) and cart around a steam-ship full of "his people" ..... Only Al and Dave could just plug in and let it rip. Why does he want to mess around with Mike or Brian when he has the goods all on his own? Why bother with any "Beach Type" thing at this point? He certainly doesn't need the money.

Then again, I'm not a Beach Boy and can't fathom it would be an easy thing to just let go.

You answered your own question.  Brian Wilson draws audiences on the fact that he is Brian Wilson, principle songwriter of one of the greatest music catalogs in existence.  Mike Love draws audiences due to the fact that he owns the license to the name "The Beach Boys" and the fact that he has built up quite a reputation of his own for delivering enjoyable performances year in and year out. 

Al Jardine obviously has the right to do whatever he wants to with his career but like anyone else it has to be a worthwhile venture financially speaking for him to embrace said venture full time.  So using what Wilson and Love are able to draw independent of one another as a barometer, maybe Jardine feels that he's better off aligning himself with one of the two existing touring outfits instead of striking out on his own and trying to compete full time? 

It wouldn't surprise me if Mike ponied up for a 'Coach' ticket to NY instead of 'First' for Al so he bailed. Could be that simple.

The more I ponder on this whole clusterf***, the more it looks like Alan is culpable. The bit about it being "rumors" and "reports" is just plain nonsense. If Mike wanted to take legal action, I think he'd win hands down, if only on the evidence posted on the net: Alan knew he was being promoted as appearing, even posted it on his own website but said nothing for six weeks, and if that's not tacit agreement then I don't know what is. I'm sure a look at the emails exchanged would be most illuminating.

Yeah, I think predicting not only potential legal action but v also the outcome of said legal action based on "evidence posted on the net" is rather silly. The plaintiff would have to show damages as well, assuming Al did sign a contract, etc. They could even win a lawsuit but not get much in damages.

I'm not ready to buy that Al just breached a contract. If he didn't, then we're left with his passive (via the promoter) and scribe (via his website) advertising of his appearance. That may or may not be actionable, and may or may not show huge proven damages.

Unless Al just feeds off chaos, I don't know why he doesn't just put together a band and play clubs as himself. He has a fantastic, youthful voice and plenty of his own and Beach Boys material, and folk stuff to draw from. Mike couldn't do that! Brian can't do anything but be THE GREAT BRAIN WILSON (even if he wanted to) and cart around a steam-ship full of "his people" ..... Only Al and Dave could just plug in and let it rip. Why does he want to mess around with Mike or Brian when he has the goods all on his own? Why bother with any "Beach Type" thing at this point? He certainly doesn't need the money.

Then again, I'm not a Beach Boy and can't fathom it would be an easy thing to just let go.

Indeed. I can't even comprehend what it would be like to "just let go". For the better part of 50 years these guys have built a business, brand and legacy that will outlive them, their children and their children's children. With C50/TGWMTR they more than proved that they've all still got a few more years left in the tank to put the finishing touches on their collective story.

So, you're Al Jardine, founding member and dedicated foot solider of the Beach Boys, and you're now considering the possibility that "The Beach Boys" will play their last gigs without you on-stage. Does that make you want to "hit the clubs" on your own, having to deal with all of the details involved in putting a tour together (big or small) and the risk that comes with booking your lesser-known name at age 72?

If I'm Mike Love, and I and the rest of my BB bandmates are staring mortality in the face, I don't know that I could forgive myself if the the last Beach Boys gig isn't played by The Beach Boys. And with every additional gig that he books with his current backing band, instead of finding a way to co-exist with Brian, Al and David, the potential for that happening comes closer and closer to reality. They all need to make some compromises, but as long as Mike keeps control of the name, it ultimately falls on him, for better and worse.

The official reason was that Alan needed to finish up his solo album... which wasn't released for another two and a half years.

At Westlake Audio in March 1985, I told Alan "California Calling" was a good song and sounded like "California Saga". His response ? "Yeah, but that didn't make much money did it ?" I think that $$$ is as much of a motivating factor as it is with Mike (and Mike at least has an excuse).

I wonder who would have the power in the band if Al rejoined? Mike has the license to tour with the name, and as such is the guy who makes all the decisions in the current incarnation. If another member of BRI is part of the group, do they then have equal say as a BRI member, or does it work as "You're a paid employee of Mike Love's band which is licensing the BB name"? Or does it immediately shift to "Mike and Al are licensing the name, with equal royalties and say on the daily business of the touring band, while paying out to BRI"?

Also, thinking about all of this makes it really sad that neither Bruce nor Dennis' estate still has a vote (ideally one but not both) in BRI as I would imagine that an odd number of voters would make it much easier to get business done as a group...

I don`t think it realistically can be 1 at all from those options. As already noted, it was on Al`s website and has been publicly known for weeks.

Probably just that Al changed his mind maybe because he fancied playing with his son and Brian more.

I think the comment on Al`s Facebook page is slightly disingenuous as well. Having his presence listed on the ticket sites, in respected magazines and even on his own websites does not gel with the, `Despite some reports to the contrary` line. It may be that Al has a good reason for not attending but he probably owes an apology to those who have bought tickets.

It`s not exactly the biggest disgrace in the history of popular music or anything but I don`t think should just brush it off by saying, `I`m not playing the gug I`ve been billed to play for weeks but I will be playing on the other side of the world on that day`. A bit of a p***take for the fans who have already paid to see him.

Plus, there is no guarantee that the last `Beach Boys` gig will feature any original members whatsoever...

So where is Mike's statement on all of this?

Everyone seems to be bagging on Al (and to a lesser degree Brian) about this whole botch job - what about Mike?  When will he say anything about what the situation is?

Again, everyone wants to jump Al's sh*t but what if Ego Master Mike thought he could yank Al's chain and make him jump when asked and it blew up in his face?

And as usual Bruce says nothing but claps and adjusts his microphone.

It was on Al to not to publicize the gig on his own website. Which leads back to allowing his name to be used on the Nikon Jones Beach Theatre site, or on Ticketmaster promotion, etc. Given that he did that, he should have shown up, no matter what Mike did that offended him. There are these people called fans, and if you want fans to follow your career and buy your "Postcard From California" album, you owe them that much.  There are some people out there who bought tickets, and made travel plans to Jones Beach, based on All being there. Because Al said he would be there, not just Mike. In the real world, we do a lot of things we don't like due to the fact we were dumb enough to make a promise we wound up not wanting to keep. But we keep them anyway, because it's the right thing to do.

As for Al saying he wasn't allowed to talk to Brian on the phone at one point, he was also forbidden by Brian's people to talk to Brian at the Hawthorne monument dedication. Even though they were in the same physical location. I don't know if dealing with Brian's management is much easier than the Beach Boys. They sound incredibly petty and only change when it benefits them.

So, two members of America's Band will be in Europe/UK during the 4th of July. Something seems so wrong about that. I know it has something to do with the timing of gigs that Brian was asked to to, and no one in the USA was asking him. But it's a far cry from the Capitol Mall shows or even the year Brian was asked to appear on the PBS 4th of July special.

Someone should pull the plug before it gets embarrassing beyond where it already went. Seriously.

Brian is a genius and wrote several songs and arrangements

I don't really see it as embarrassing. I see it more as a bunch of complicated relationships between old band mates and their families trying to get along. I think that they really all care for each other, but there is some inevitable hurt that goes on, and unfortunately it turns into a public aircraft sometimes. I met Drew and Robbie for the first time during the BAD tour, they were very nice to all the fans who wanted to talk to them.

And just my own thoughts here, someone explain how some kind of deal-breaking issue between Al and Mike gets turned into an opportunity to publicly throw Brian under the bus when the issue at hand was between Al and Mike regarding Jones Beach.

That's lame, sorry.

You have to admire Ambha's dedication to protecting her dad's reputation, but it's pretty sad that she feels the need to do so. Even so, this…


… made me LOL at the level of understatement.

Sorry, where did Brian get thrown under the bus?

I'm sorry but You're so wrong my dad wanted to continue and tour with Brian but they literally sent an email saying no more shows for the Wilson's and then flipped it around on my dad in the press and said he "fired" them which isn't true at all my dad was bummed. Plus Brian doesn't make any of his own decisions he's controlled by people when really my dad and him are friends and people continue to try to split them apart. And the only reason he sued was because he was screwed out of a TON of credit for songs he actually wrote that Brian claimed he wrote all the words to. Brian is a genius and wrote several songs and arrangements but how would you feel if you actually wrote all the words to several classic songs and didn't get any credit for them?  That's what happened to my dad and I'm sure you or any logical person would do the same. My dad wants nothing more that to sit with brian in the studio and make more music but if you only knew how many people are preventing that maybe you would see things a little differently.

You either see it or you don't, simple as that.

But if any of that has f***-all to do with Al and Mike and Jones Beach, I must be missing it.

Sorry, where did Brian get thrown under the bus?

Here's the post Ambha was responding to, from a fan named Lori:

Sorry Ambha Love. I'm sure your dad is a nice man. It's just hard for fans to see past that he sued his cousins, Al, & others many times & especially that he didn't continue to tour with Brian, Al , & David after the reunion tour. That's Why God Made The Radio is one my favorite Beach Boys albums. It would be great if everything could get patched up so they could release even more New & amazing songs together.

That thread is long. She was responding to another comment about Brian and Mike.

So basically I'll be seeing mike and al on stage together in cork next week.

I win.

That's right.   Yeah, I read Ambha's comments and even out of context I don't see how they are attacking Brian; and I'm a pretty simple guy.

I do agree with you that this has zip to do with the original Al and Mike hot topic; which is making a few people rather (and suprisingly) more excitable than I'd expected, and with your above comment - 'Someone should pull the plug before it gets embarrassing beyond where it already went'

Sad situation all around.

This: Plus Brian doesn't make any of his own decisions he's controlled by people when really my dad and him are friends and people continue to try to split them apart.

A comment like that should never have been posted on an official website or media outlet, not to mention by a younger family member and one of Brian's relatives. There is no need for that, in this simple fan's opinion.

That's all I'm going to say...If the issues a fan like me would have with seeing such a comment aren't obvious, and if it's not considered at least uncalled for, if not just plain wrong and totally misguided/misinformed, I'm not qualified to argue the point beyond common sense from afar. If there are unresolved issues between Brian and Mike, let them talk man-to-man as relatives in private. I don't see how including a younger family member in this kind of public internet dialogue does anyone any bit of good.

Sad situation all around.

I agree with you, here.  There's no reason for family to get involved in this at all, and Ambha really isn't doing her father any favors. She's a bit too quick to jump into the fray, and ends up just repeating the well worn "Mike Love's greatest hits": Mike wants to work with Brian but "forces" keep them from it. Mike got screwed on royalties. Mike's really a great, positive guy.

The sad part, to me:  it's almost like her knowledge of her dad comes from his own interviews.

This: Plus Brian doesn't make any of his own decisions he's controlled by people when really my dad and him are friends and people continue to try to split them apart.

A comment like that should never have been posted on an official website or media outlet, not to mention by a younger family member and one of Brian's relatives. There is no need for that, in this simple fan's opinion.

That's all I'm going to say...If the issues a fan like me would have with seeing such a comment aren't obvious, and if it's not considered at least uncalled for, if not just plain wrong and totally misguided/misinformed, I'm not qualified to argue the point beyond common sense from afar. If there are unresolved issues between Brian and Mike, let them talk man-to-man as relatives in private. I don't see how including a younger family member in this kind of public internet dialogue does anyone any bit of good.

Sad situation all around.

Man, you guys are a bit touchy!

Brian is your idol, and I understand that. He's one of mine too...... But look at the level of turbo charged Mike bashing that happens each and every day on both YouTube, and Facebook (alone) anytime ANYTHING Beach Boys related gets posted! That's all fine and good, but then you guys can't handle a young girl's opinion on the matter when her own father is one of the involved??? ....... She also just might ......... JUST MIGHT be privy to information all of us aren't ..... It's a reasonable possibility.

So, she could have worded the thing about Brian writing "several" classic arrangements or being controlled by people a bit better, but the point was to defend her dad, and she did! You guys should really be grown up enough to be able to handle it and respect it.... This is also a girl who has to see endless comment streams of folk calling her dad everything from a talentless asshole, to as much worse as possible on a daily basis, and she's supposed to edit herself from (perhaps clumsily) suggesting her father did some cool stuff too? Or to speak what she knows or sees as the truth regarding Brian and his people? IF true, it's a deeply valid point since we're all sitting here wondering just why these guys just can't communicate.

Just so I'm clear, Pinder (and with respect of course), I have no probs with Ambha's comments - they're pretty spunky, right on in my book and from a family member living the life (replete with bodyguards at times), not just peering through the window.

On the previous page GF expressed an opinion that Ambha's had used her comments (ie, those copied to this board) as an opportunity to throw Brian under a bus; I disagree with that reading - and GF and I won't see eye to eye on that item.

I get concerned when people start to decide what BB Members, Family and Friends should and shouldn't say in any public or private sphere.

However, I do agree with the sentiment of GF's observation that the original issue re the Jone's beach show is losing focus as things devolve into ye olde Mike versus Brian rumble; and it would be great for the involved parties to show some sort of united front to address the issue to allay the disappointment of those directly impacted (ie disgruntled ticket holders)

Anyhoo, that's my bad for not making myself clear earlier on.  Are we good? - Al

PS - given Brian's been thrown under a bus, should we refer to this issue as the Brian Jone's Beach Massacre moving fwd?

Something doesn't add up here. Al receives notification from Live Nation about Jones Beach. He's (apparently) miffed that the offer comes through a third party. We do know that he posts about Jones Beach on his Facebook feed - but did he EVER pick up the phone (pretty much immediately) and contact Mike to settle the issue?

Sobering thought:  these guys might not even have each others' home phone numbers any more.  Hell, how many different home numbers would Al have to try to find where Mike was these days?

Cheers,
Jon Blum

Sobering thought:  these guys might not even have each others' home phone numbers any more.  Hell, how many different home numbers would Al have to try to find where Mike was these days?

Cheers,
Jon Blum

What's' with all the apostrophe's'?'

1) can't blame Ambah for defending his father of such stupid and hateful attacks on his fellow beach boy fanpage.
2) when did Al become sad because it was Live Nation who contacted him? Before or after he said "yes"?

Don't know about the rest of you, but I'm waiting for Melinda's comment on Ambah's statement about the "no more shows for Wilson's" email that was sent. I can't imagine Ambah made it up, and it does support Mike's comment about that last year. So, looks like it was the Wilson's who said no to more than 73 gigs.

Don't know about the rest of you, but I'm waiting for Melinda's comment on Ambah's statement about the "no more shows for Wilson's" email that was sent. I can't imagine Ambah made it up, and it does support Mike's comment about that last year. So, looks like it was the Wilson's who said no to more than 73 gigs.

“oh, that was just for the fans”

It may well not be as simple as Mike being the sole reason for the demise of the reunion. But he has also made it abundantly clear that he prefers touring on his own to touring with the full group.

It looks like she wrote that hastily. She forgot to add the word "classic" the first time but did the second time. I doubt she meant anything by it.

I hate the idea of any Beach Boys progeny feeling it necessary to take to Facebook to defend their parents. There's something very unsettling about that. That's not a knock on them, but rather an observation that the level of fan vitriol is embarrassing.

If I'm Mike Love, and I and the rest of my BB bandmates are staring mortality in the face, I don't know that I could forgive myself if the the last Beach Boys gig isn't played by The Beach Boys. And with every additional gig that he books with his current backing band, instead of finding a way to co-exist with Brian, Al and David, the potential for that happening comes closer and closer to reality. They all need to make some compromises, but as long as Mike keeps control of the name, it ultimately falls on him, for better and worse.

Yeah, I realize that comment "no more shows for Wilson's" isn't on topic for this particular thread, but the silence of the responses HERE is deafening. Pages and pages and pages of blaming Mike for "ending" the reunion tour...

Something doesn't add up here. Al receives notification from Live Nation about Jones Beach. He's (apparently) miffed that the offer comes through a third party. We do know that he posts about Jones Beach on his Facebook feed - but did he EVER pick up the phone (pretty much immediately) and contact Mike to settle the issue?

Something like - 'hey Mike, it's Al...I'm excited about Jones Beach man, but WTF...do you really want me down there? Is this really happening? Is this a one shot thing? What exactly is going on?'

A conversation like that should've gone down within 48 hours after hearing from Live Nation. Right? I mean, that's what normal people would do... ::)

I'm happy about his shows with Bri, but sheez...all of this should've hit and breezed over a long time ago.

Regarding Ambha, I'm reminded about athletes' use of twitter. It's incredible to me how many people (regardless of their age) have no self governor when posting sh*t online. When the game's on the line (or the show's about to start) get your ass off twitter et al unless you know how to ride that media tiger. Many people, most people, don't.

Nah, that’s rather specious reasoning. I will totally buy that Brian’s “camp” could have easily made some hasty, weird comments as the tour wrapped up. I doubt this comment about an e-mail from Brian’s camp is totally made up; I also don’t find the source of this information as reliable as far as the context or details. When did Brian send an e-mail? What did it say? Did that e-mail happen before or after Mike had begun to book non-reunion shows? We get one paraphrased line of an approximately alleged two-year-old e-mail, mixed in with a bunch of weird internet vitriol (in response to plenty of vitriol, no question) and defensive language about a range of private and public crap.

The problem is, NOTHING else Mike had said (apart from that one passing comment about Brian saying “no more shows”) in the last two years in interviews washes with the idea that Brian and Brian alone is responsible for no more reunion shows. On the contrary, Mike’s language and attitude has indicated that he much prefers the way things are now. Mike has been the one to continually refer to there being a “term” to the reunion, dismissing the tour as “oh, that was just for the fans” as if we were getting tossed a bone, continually referencing how everybody is “going back to what they used to do.” Mike’s language and attitude has been crystal clear that he is back to doing what he prefers. Not once has Mike said “I want to keep all five of us together and keep touring and recording, but Brian refuses to do it” or “I’d do another reunion tour tomorrow if Brian wanted to.” Mike has not once referenced all those alleged offers for them to do more shows and do another album, etc. He has said some rather lukewarm if not negative things about other aspects of the reunion tour (the band was too big, etc.). Again, that’s all fine. But it’s very clear Mike doesn’t want to go back to that. He has made vague references to a series of conditions under which he would *consider* doing something again.

As I’ve mentioned in the past, maybe Mike started booking non-reunion shows, then Brian’s camp got all bothered about it and hastily threatened to take their ball and go home (although were they threatening something that was already happening anyway?), but then there were more offers for more shows and they wanted to do it. Whatever the sequence of events, it’s clear they made no attempt to regroup and reschedule more activities together. If Brian said no more shows, but Mike wanted to, but then at some later stage Brian said he in fact did want to do more shows, why was Mike’s reaction then to still tour on his own for the next two years? Even if we buy into the argument that Mike at that point had booked more shows on his own and needed to them, etc. Why not get together in the aftermath of those statements to the press in 2012 and make arrangements for another 2013 tour?

It may well not be as simple as Mike being the sole reason for the demise of the reunion. But he has also made it abundantly clear that he prefers touring on his own to touring with the full group.

Yeah, I realize that comment "no more shows for Wilson's" isn't on topic for this particular thread, but the silence of the responses HERE is deafening. Pages and pages and pages of blaming Mike for "ending" the reunion tour...

Let's see the response first... if there is one. If not, well, that's interesting. Mildly.

Don’t get me wrong, I would love for all of these parties to clarify as much as possible for us. I’d love LOTS of information, and without the drama and vitriol and bad internet grammar. We are unlikely to get the information, though; and if we do, it will no doubt be filled with the brand of drama that only the BB’s can offer.

Nah, that’s rather specious reasoning. I will totally buy that Brian’s “camp” could have easily made some hasty, weird comments as the tour wrapped up. I doubt this comment about an e-mail from Brian’s camp is totally made up; I also don’t find the source of this information as reliable as far as the context or details. When did Brian send an e-mail? What did it say? Did that e-mail happen before or after Mike had begun to book non-reunion shows? We get one paraphrased line of an approximately alleged two-year-old e-mail, mixed in with a bunch of weird internet vitriol (in response to plenty of vitriol, no question) and defensive language about a range of private and public crap.

The problem is, NOTHING else Mike had said (apart from that one passing comment about Brian saying “no more shows”) in the last two years in interviews washes with the idea that Brian and Brian alone is responsible for no more reunion shows. On the contrary, Mike’s language and attitude has indicated that he much prefers the way things are now. Mike has been the one to continually refer to there being a “term” to the reunion, dismissing the tour as “oh, that was just for the fans” as if we were getting tossed a bone, continually referencing how everybody is “going back to what they used to do.” Mike’s language and attitude has been crystal clear that he is back to doing what he prefers. Not once has Mike said “I want to keep all five of us together and keep touring and recording, but Brian refuses to do it” or “I’d do another reunion tour tomorrow if Brian wanted to.” Mike has not once referenced all those alleged offers for them to do more shows and do another album, etc. He has said some rather lukewarm if not negative things about other aspects of the reunion tour (the band was too big, etc.). Again, that’s all fine. But it’s very clear Mike doesn’t want to go back to that. He has made vague references to a series of conditions under which he would *consider* doing something again.

As I’ve mentioned in the past, maybe Mike started booking non-reunion shows, then Brian’s camp got all bothered about it and hastily threatened to take their ball and go home (although were they threatening something that was already happening anyway?), but then there were more offers for more shows and they wanted to do it. Whatever the sequence of events, it’s clear they made no attempt to regroup and reschedule more activities together. If Brian said no more shows, but Mike wanted to, but then at some later stage Brian said he in fact did want to do more shows, why was Mike’s reaction then to still tour on his own for the next two years? Even if we buy into the argument that Mike at that point had booked more shows on his own and needed to do them, etc. Why not get together in the aftermath of those statements to the press in 2012 and make arrangements for another 2013 tour?

It may well not be as simple as Mike being the sole reason for the demise of the reunion. But he has also made it abundantly clear that he prefers touring on his own to touring with the full group.

If anyone is seriously re-evaluating anything they've thought because of online posts from a teenager, they're nuts.

As stated several times here, the supposed importance of "no more shows" is nonsensical given 99 percent of Mike's post tour comments. And Melinda Wilson herself has told interviewers about the difficulty of booking tours with Brian when he changes his mind day to day about what he wants to do. My guess is Brian indeed said something like that in passing during the 2012 tour, but it had zero effect on how the end of the thing went down (Brian made other, on the record comments, about never wanting to work with anyone else and being a BB full time ...)

I'm sure, like most things in life, there is fault in both parties.

Real quick, though, how would it benefit Mike Love to play the victim in this scenario and say that it was Brian who ended the reunion, not him? Mike knows everyone's always going to love Brian more than him. And why would Mike say that what he's doing now, touring as The Beach Boys without Al, Brian or David, is somehow inferior or not what he wants to be doing? Mike does what's best for business, and with how the chips fell, what's best for business is him acting like he's totally happy touring on his own without all the extra drama.

And that probably is what he prefers, but I also believe it's what Brian's wifeandmanagers prefer, as well.

I think Brian's new situation has, overall, been beneficial, but let's also not ignore that we can count on one hand how many times Brian has been a "Beach Boy" for the last 20 years. C50, Stars & Stripes, Beach Boys monument, Capitol building reunion. Am I missing any?

Ambha might be a teen in the opinion of many.  But what she has is first-hand knowledge.  I like that she has the courage of her convictions.  I like that she gets involved in an issue about which she has passion.  And right or wrong she'll take her lumps along the way. But that is part of the game.  

She is not a passive young "valley girl." She appears to have strong opinions and she voices them. That, in my opinion is the sign of leader.  She isn't the first to be out there, in a opinionated fashion. Carnie gets out there and speaks her mind, as well and right or wrong, she still gets "out there" in the arena so issues are discussed, whether they are uncomfortable or not and opens up the discussion.

Bravo to you, Ambha! She is getting out the information to weigh two sides of the coin, and that is never a bad thing.

Maybe Ambha will go to law school or go into politics! We need courageous young women leaders!  ;)

The back procedure came before the tour extension.

If I were any of these band members, or their family members, or their PR people, or agents, or managers, I would not want any of that crap online. It’s not well-written or eloquent, its lack of eloquence undermines its credibility and believability, and as I’ve mentioned elsewhere, it has a tone that strongly suggests to me that it lacks any historical context or knowledge of the band and its fans. Hmm, how could something like that happen? If the person in question is very young perhaps?

Two over exaggerated, overly defensive, extreme opinions on opposite sides of the spectrum are not the “two sides of the coin” that I want to read. Some thoughtful, even-handed commentary from these folks would be great. They are never going to be impartial, but “all he cares about is music and meditation” is not the sort of commentary that anybody will lend credibility to. If I were the person in question being discussed, I would find it comically overly simplified to refer to me as someone who only cares about those two things. I’m a totally boring person, and I’m not that simple and easy to generalize about.  

It is not too far afield from Dennis' interview with Peter Fornatale.  

Parents have a choice in bringing up their kids.  They either teach them to "go along to get along" ( and for some that works well) and some are "permissive and tolerant" about kids speaking up and without without censorship.  Sometimes there is no harmony as between the PR people, and the players, as Jay Carney told it so well, after leaving the top PR post at the White House last month, "We tell the truth, slowly."  Only a bit at a time.  It is too manipulative for my way of thinking.  

If anyone, I mean anyone, can prove that this statement is true as of June 2014, taken verbatim from her reply: Plus Brian doesn't make any of his own decisions he's controlled by people when really my dad and him are friends and people continue to try to split them apart.

Playing the role of devil's advocate, can you prove it's not true?

Gee, Ambha seemed like a sweet kid when she sang Sail On Sailor in concert a couple of years ago. I have a hard time believing that's really her saying those things on Facebook. Wouldn't be at all surprised it's somebody else writing that crap.

If I were a public figure (or actually, even if I wasn’t), and someone posted the following online trying to defend me, I might appreciate very much that they love me and they’re trying to defend me, and I might appreciate and agree with all of the sentiments contained therein, but I would tell them to stop posting crap like this, because it doesn’t help anyone:

Half of you don't know what the hell you're talking about my dad doesn't do sh*t wrong he's the only beach boy that has NEVER STOPPED TOURING ONCE. Show some love respect and appreciation for all of them instead of adding fuel to the fire. My dad has nothing but love for everyone he's not a "dick" or "asshole" or whatever else you think he is. It's fucking pathetic all he cares about is the music fans and meditation. He's not this money hungry prick you all seem to think he is. Take it from someone who actually knows what they're talking about. Have fun continuing to talk sh*t on a good person. Peace and love, mikes daughter ambha love.

This is going over old ground. Didn't Mike book those solo shows way in advance with the understanding that the C50 had a definite end date? And that Brian Wilson had zero interest in extending the tour until the 11th hour?

This is going over old ground. Didn't Mike book those solo shows way in advance with the understanding that the C50 had a definite end date? And that Brian Wilson had zero interest in extending the tour until the 11th hour?

Will Mike ever be able to un-do the perception that he or Brian has among fans and spectators? Probably not. But that doesn’t mean he should be resigned to what anyone else thinks. More importantly, it’s clear he’s not resigned, and continues to try to counter critics and naysayers to varying degrees in interviews.

How would putting the blame on Brian for ending the tour benefit Mike? In a very simple and specific way. “Mike Love fires Brian Wilson” was a huge headline, a “trending” online topic, in 2012. Mike could have easily cleared up everything by stating in his letter to the LA Times that “I don’t know what anyone is talking about. I wanted to continue the reunion, but Brian refused to do any more shows.” Mike never said anything along those lines in his statement. He went on about a “set end date”, how they went above and beyond by extended the tour, discussed how the reunion tour didn’t allow him to play small markets, and so on, the same stuff we got in subsequent interviews. Every indication was that he indeed did not want to do more reunion shows. He could have easily said instead that he would have been happy to do more shows, but Brian didn’t want to. Why didn’t that happen? My guess is because Mike was happy to go back to his own touring, and everything he has said and done has supported that assertion. He says in interviews that he enjoys touring with his band. Meanwhile, he has minimized the reunion tour and said some moderately critical things about some aspects of it.

Gee, Ambha seemed like a sweet kid when she sang Sail On Sailor in concert a couple of years ago. I have a hard time believing that's really her saying those things on Facebook. Wouldn't be at all surprised it's somebody else writing that crap.

Interesting, I was not even thinking about the "public figure" aspect. Just generally "refuting" what she believes to be a falsehood about a family member, public figure or not.  There seems to have been a very one-sided perception of her father, and generally if one does not "set the record straight" with refuting, it could be perceived as the truth.

Social media has "muddied the waters."  This is America (Here) and, just about everything she is defending against, has been in print.  And she has a right to her opinion, and her opinion is no less protected (under the US Constitution) because she is the child of a public figure.  

Edmund Burke's quote, "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men (women) do nothing." She has perceived falsehood, about a family member, and is stepping up.  

Edmund Burke's quote, "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men (women) do nothing." She has perceived falsehood, about a family member, and is stepping up.  

And if Mike had generated headlines by saying that he didn't fire Brian Wilson and that he desperately wanted him to keep touring, it would further undermine The Beach Boys shows. Pointing out that it sucks that Brian Wilson isn't touring with the Beach Boys, or that Brian Wilson isn't touring with the Beach Boys at all, doesn't benefit Mike in the least.

Mike makes money off "The Beach Boys" name being bigger than the "Brian Wilson" brand. Mike likely prefers to tour on his own, and there's no benefit to him in saying otherwise, even if Brian played a role in the reunion ending.

Crying about Brian Wilson ending a tour won't help sell Beach Boys tickets. Trying to turn a negative into a positive might.

I miss these guys.

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-HRH4H6zZhUQ/T7FelnaiPwI/AAAAAAAAAZw/A1ZzCHKGvz4/s1600/beachboysreunion.jpg)

I miss these guys.

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-HRH4H6zZhUQ/T7FelnaiPwI/AAAAAAAAAZw/A1ZzCHKGvz4/s1600/beachboysreunion.jpg)

 I guess it comes down to whether you consider a second album offer, a gig at Madison Square Garden and a few other big events to be game changers. Brian and Al seemed to think they were. Mike not so much.

A basic rule of debate and discourse, though, is not to challenge a perceived falsehood by offering up another falsehood in response. The point could have been made, the claims could have been challenged more diplomatically and effectively without "going there" as she did.  This is why there is a cottage industry around consultants and experts in social media communications for public figures, corporations, and similar interests. The damage done by a poorly crafted statement can destroy any of the positives within one sentence posted on Twitter or Facebook.

As far as what Mikie is suggesting above, I don't personally believe this to be the case.  To use a teenage girl as a device to get your message across strikes me as a bit crass.  I don't think anyone we are speaking of within The Beach Boys family would stoop that low to put words in Ambah Love's mouth.

The "spin-control" has ruined this country, in my opinion.  The big wheels whether political or industrial all need to have a buffer-zone for their "perception of the truth."

Maybe Ambha is the kind of young lady who doesn't want to be in spin-control mode.  When you give up your own opinion and let someone else "sanitize" your opinions, it is a slippery slope.  

Most of our great artists/musicians operated without built-in damage control.  Certainly those 70's protesters... ;)

Whether it's spin control mode or not, and no matter who it is, the guiding principle should be that notion of the truth, and again it's not effective at all to refute a falsehood by posting another falsehood. That is the core issue, no matter what spin is applied before or after the fact. If another falsehood is presented, one which can be shown to be false if not ridiculous if necessary, it destroys not only the message but the credibility of the messenger.

Beyond this specific case, as good as speaking unfiltered and uncensored might be as an ideal, if it's not true and can be proven untrue, and above that if it can be proven to have caused some kind of damage to a professional reputation or a business or anything of the sort, it gets into the definition of libel when it involves someone's writings if they are shown to be based on a false statement or premise. I'm *NOT* saying that in this case, again let me stress NOT....but damage control or at least a self-check before posting something isn't necessarily a bad thing, nor does it become spin-control or censorship to think twice before offering a public comment.

I miss these guys.

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-HRH4H6zZhUQ/T7FelnaiPwI/AAAAAAAAAZw/A1ZzCHKGvz4/s1600/beachboysreunion.jpg)

The back procedure came before the tour extension.

Gee, Ambha seemed like a sweet kid when she sang Sail On Sailor in concert a couple of years ago. I have a hard time believing that's really her saying those things on Facebook. Wouldn't be at all surprised it's somebody else writing that crap.

You guys can't do a damn thing about what someone posts on their own social media anymore than you can control what asshole cuts you off in traffic.

Middle finger or verbal assaults no longer work. I have a real nice Louisville Slugger 36" baseball bat (solid ash) in the back seat of my car for assholes in traffic. Sounds fantastic (better than an aluminum bat or golf club) when it impacts glass!

As for Facebook? You can make snide comments with dirty graphics for all to see, then un-friend them. Never had to do it, but it's an option.

Also: suggesting that Ambha should not even be allowed to publish such statements on a public forum is likely to just stir the fire since she has how many decades of Mike bashing to point to? I mean just the amount of social media Mike bashing is absolutely staggering. Nor can I remember a single Mike fan (yes we do exist) ever suggesting that Mike bashers should not even be allowed to put their feelings out there in cyber-land. We should be wary of what such suggestions might someday lead to.... I suggest trying on the sort of thick skin Mike fans (and most "Beach Boys" fans) have to endlessly wear. It might be heavily informative.

But see: doesn't that make you much worse than an asshole who merely cuts someone off? Going around smashing windshields and rampaging with a bat? .... This is why things will likely never improve.

If Brian Wilson sent Mike Love an e-mail that said no more shows, then the end of the tour is because of Brian Wilson and no one else.
  

Re: family ties


From facebook:

(https://scontent-a-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/t1.0-9/10478590_665122353566609_3979975781757070531_n.jpg)

Sunday we got to play in our hometown of Los Angeles, Ca. at the LA Arboretum. LA shows are always extra special for two reasons. First, So-Cal is where it all started. Our first record on the radio, our first live appearance, our first fans some of which were in our audience the other night. The second is family and friends. For starters I got to dance Surfer Girl with my beautiful daughter Ambha and Kokomo with my wife Jacquelyne. I had such a wonderful visit with Marilyn Wilson who was there from the start! Cousin Carl's wife Annie and Dennis' wife Barbara also came by with her son Michael and his beautiful newborn! Backstage was filled with lifelong friends too. Billy Hinsche stopped by as did Johnny Tillotsen and Michael Lloyd. Topping it off, my pal Wink Martindale who introduced us to Los Angeles by spinning Surfin on the radio for the first time introduced us again to the over capacity crowd. Now it's off to the UK to rock Hampton Court tonight and tomorrow!

Peace and Love, ML

Re: family ties


From facebook:

(https://scontent-a-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/t1.0-9/10478590_665122353566609_3979975781757070531_n.jpg)

Sunday we got to play in our hometown of Los Angeles, Ca. at the LA Arboretum. LA shows are always extra special for two reasons. First, So-Cal is where it all started. Our first record on the radio, our first live appearance, our first fans some of which were in our audience the other night. The second is family and friends. For starters I got to dance Surfer Girl with my beautiful daughter Ambha and Kokomo with my wife Jacquelyne. I had such a wonderful visit with Marilyn Wilson who was there from the start! Cousin Carl's wife Annie and Dennis' wife Barbara also came by with her son Michael and his beautiful newborn! Backstage was filled with lifelong friends too. Billy Hinsche stopped by as did Johnny Tillotsen and Michael Lloyd. Topping it off, my pal Wink Martindale who introduced us to Los Angeles by spinning Surfin on the radio for the first time introduced us again to the over capacity crowd. Now it's off to the UK to rock Hampton Court tonight and tomorrow!

Peace and Love, ML

I miss these guys.

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-HRH4H6zZhUQ/T7FelnaiPwI/AAAAAAAAAZw/A1ZzCHKGvz4/s1600/beachboysreunion.jpg)

If Brian Wilson sent Mike Love an e-mail that said no more shows, then the end of the tour is because of Brian Wilson and no one else.
   

Whether it was him or someone acting on his behalf, if an e-mail was sent that said no more shows, then that's it.

So then Brian says "It feels like I've been fired"?

Then Al commits (according to the internet at least) to a show with Mike and then backs out last minute with no explanation other than being sad that Live Nation did the inviting?

Something stinks here.

So then Brian says "It feels like I've been fired"?

Then Al commits (according to the internet at least) to a show with Mike and then backs out last minute with no explanation other than being sad that Live Nation did the inviting?

Something stinks here.

get M&B to make an album. >:D

Whether it was him or someone acting on his behalf, if an e-mail was sent that said no more shows, then that's it.

Whether it was him or someone acting on his behalf, if an e-mail was sent that said no more shows, then that's it.

And, if Ambha is telling the truth and such an email existed, Brian and hiswifeandmanagers are lucky that Mike didn't V. Stiviano them. If Mike was in possession of an email from Brian that said, in effect, no more shows, and he showed it to the press after he supposedly "fired Brian", it would've buried  Brian and Melinda, and destroyed their credibility.

I often get the feeling that if Dennis were still alive, he'd still be in the touring Beach Boys.

But he didn't do that. Didn't even mention an email or any desire on Brian's part to not do more shows in his letter to the LA Times.

Following your scenario though, then what? It's September 2012 and Brian produces proof of firm offers for Madison Square Garden, other gigs, etc. and says he's ready to do them. Then what? Ball's back in the other court, and so on until nobody cares anymore and we all want to hurl in disgust.

Can somebody tell me why al is not a touring beach boy?

Is that a mike decision? Has he ever given a reason

Don't believe these two really get along all that well.  

But imagine if Brian hadn't changed his mind about doing more shows, do you think Mike would have bleated to the press about 'how it feels like I've been fired by Brian Wilson'?
No matter what went on behind the scenes, everyone should have kept their mouth shut and let the C50 end on a dignified high.

I often get the feeling that if Dennis were still alive, he'd still be in the touring Beach Boys.

It's funny how things change because David Leaf's book paints a picture of Al and Mike getting along like two peas in a pod and with an "us-vs-them" mentality again the Wilsons.

Ambha might be a teen in the opinion of many.  But what she has is first-hand knowledge.

Can somebody tell me why al is not a touring beach boy?

Is that a mike decision? Has he ever given a reason

They got in a fight around the time of the Super Bowl appearance. It's a long, drawn-out story. Though as I recall, it had something to do with Al feeling disrespected.

From what I remember, Al has stated publicly many times that he doesn't see how any one person (Mike) can claim to own the beach boys name and tour as "the beach boys".  The wedge this creates will never allow them to truly reconcile.

From what I remember, Al has stated publicly many times that he doesn't see how any one person (Mike) can claim to own the beach boys name and tour as "the beach boys".  The wedge this creates will never allow them to truly reconcile.

Which puts Al on the other side of Brian, who voted to give Mike the exclusive tour license, whether Brian regrets that decision now or not. Al doesn't seem to be clear on the business side of things. The reason BRI made that decision is they didn't want two or three different acts touring as the Beach Boys, as other legacy bands have had happen. Also, Al could have made a claim to at least using Beach Boys as part of his own band title, but didn't want to pay the license fee, thus ending up in court and winding up with Mike holding the Beach Boy title, with Brian's vote on his side. Why even have a BRI license at all if no one is going out there touring with that name? I guess Al can argue they can make Mike stay home or make him tour as Mike Love and not use the Beach Boy name, but I'm sure Al doesn't mind cashing the 25% license fee checks, no matter how small or large or medium size they may be.

The courts were merely ruling for BRI, but BRI was lined up 3 to 1 against Al. Including Brian, and Carl's heirs, as well.  I had read (perhaps wrongly) that Al didn't want to pay the fee, but I'd never heard that Al simply couldn't reach financial terms with BRI. Who knows what BRI was asking for and what Al wanted. Maybe they wanted Al to pay as much as Mike and he realized he wasn't the box office draw of Mike, who had the Beach Boys title alone. I'm not sure if Mike and his band pay a set license fee or if its a percentage of the box office take.

I just know our family got the Disney album and the Gershwin effort the last few years and they are perfection. Any objection to that? I love BW music even if it originates from other sources. His magic spin has kept us keepin' on. Any objection to that? I really like Al Jardine and hope this all washes out. But it's Brian who has produced the new music and Alan has a fine solo effort in his release. It's those two who have kept me in the fold. Not f'n Back in the USSR. Are you a Beach Boy aficionado or otherwise? And  it' s only the suite that made Radio what it is. The last 3 cuts are Beach Boys perfection. Sorry, Pisces Brother or whatever it's called, doesn't cut it.

I just know our family got the Disney album and the Gershwin effort the last few years and they are perfection. Any objection to that? I love BW music even if it originates from other sources. His magic spin has kept us keepin' on. Any objection to that? I really like Al Jardine and hope this all washes out. But it's Brian who has produced the new music and Alan has a fine solo effort in his release. It's those two who have kept me in the fold. Not f'n Back in the USSR. Are you a Beach Boy aficionado or otherwise? And  it' s only the suite that made Radio what it is. The last 3 cuts are Beach Boys perfection. Sorry, Pisces Brother or whatever it's called, doesn't cut it.

If Brian Wilson sent Mike Love an e-mail that said no more shows, then the end of the tour is because of Brian Wilson and no one else.
   

Simple answer to that: if Brian's people don't deny sending the email, then it happened. Hopefully they won't wait six weeks.

Simple answer to that: if Brian's people don't deny sending the email, then it happened. Hopefully they won't wait six weeks.

Simple answer to that: if Brian's people don't deny sending the email, then it happened. Hopefully they won't wait six weeks.

They got in a fight around the time of the Super Bowl appearance. It's a long, drawn-out story. Though as I recall, it had something to do with Al feeling disrespected.

Yeah but things can change.  I believe these two were a lot tighter in the 70's and the 80's, but it sounds like something eventually went awry.  Al was almost completely omitted from the Summer In Paradise sessions (well phase I of them anyway).  I used to stick up for Al back when he was being sued for using the "Beach Boys" name in his Family & Friends band.  But now I've come to the conclusion that Al can be kind of whiny and even oblivious and clueless at times, and he's probably created a lot of his own problems within the group.  This recent "about-face" with Mike is a good example.  

Mike does not 'own' The Beach Boys name, BRI is the registered owner of “The Beach Boys” trademark.

Whether Alan ever held a license is disputed. However, contrary to what you say, BRI did initially at least, vote to issue non-exclusive licences. Alan voted in favour. At this time Mike and Alan did not want to tour together and Brian not at all. So it is probable we are talking about two non-exclusive licences since the licenses were only available to the principals. Again, contrary to what you say, Alan was prepared to pay a royalty to BRI but the parties could not agree on the terms and conditions of the license. Alan continued to tour as variations of the Beach Boys and Family & Friends. During this time period, BRI sent Alan cease and desist letters objecting to his use of the trademark. in 2001 the district court granted summary judgment in favour of BRI and issued a permanent injunction against Alan's use of the trademark. That decision was upheld on  appeal before the Court of Appeals.

So you can see how things got out of hand pretty darn easily.

I seem to remember an print interview with Al from about 10 years ago where he talked about the early 90s and the issues of the time. He was pushing for less shows with a more esoteric set list. Ring any bells?

I guess he had two young sons, had been on the road for 30 years singing the hits and wanted a change, as he thought the audience might.

Even now that would not sit well with Mike, let alone 20 years ago.

edit.
Checked on the Goldmine interview but no mention of less shows, only some with an orchestra. I'm sure there was another interview that went into that period in some detail.

Simple answer to that: if Brian's people don't deny sending the email, then it happened. Hopefully they won't wait six weeks.

First of all, I don’t know about randomly blurting stuff to the press, but I think it would have been appropriate enough, had Brian nixed more reunion shows and everybody including Mike actively wanted to do more, for Mike (or anybody) to mention that it was Brian who ended the reunion.

That’s absolutely ridiculous. If all of us don’t answer every accusation and statement made about us on facebook, then it’s true? That reasoning is flawed logically, legally, and I think morally.

So if someone goes on Al’s facebook and says he was the real Vanilla Ice, and Al doesn’t deny it, that’s a passive admission that he’s Vanilla Ice. What if he doesn’t read the comment, or what if he reads it but doesn’t want to dignify it with a response? Not responding may or may not be effective, but it is not an admission of anything.

Oh yeah, and we also don’t even know the contents of this e-mail. We have one person on facebook paraphrasing it, at best.

So it’s not even a direct accusation Brian’s camp would not be responding to. It’s a vague reference based on a paraphrased partial sentence from an e-mail that the facebook poster may or may not have even seen.

I’m all for weighing the evidence accordingly. I’d love for Brian or his people to speak to all of this. But their non-comment is not an admission of anything. Maybe they’re too lazy to type a response. Who knows?

Simple answer to that: if Brian's people don't deny sending the email, then it happened. Hopefully they won't wait six weeks.

How do you know with such certainty that what Ambha said is a paraphrase ? Suppose that was the exact wording ?

Does anybody really think both Brian and Al were fabricating the offers from promoters for more shows, and another album, etc.?

These are adults, there's nothing ambiguous about "no more shows."  Why can't you accept that he made that statement and the people who run the group accepted it.

That’s absolutely ridiculous. If all of us don’t answer every accusation and statement made about us on facebook, then it’s true? That reasoning is flawed logically, legally, and I think morally.

So if someone goes on Al’s facebook and says he was the real Vanilla Ice, and Al doesn’t deny it, that’s a passive admission that he’s Vanilla Ice. What if he doesn’t read the comment, or what if he reads it but doesn’t want to dignify it with a response? Not responding may or may not be effective, but it is not an admission of anything.

Oh yeah, and we also don’t even know the contents of this e-mail. We have one person on facebook paraphrasing it, at best.

So it’s not even a direct accusation Brian’s camp would not be responding to. It’s a vague reference based on a paraphrased partial sentence from an e-mail that the facebook poster may or may not have even seen.

I’m all for weighing the evidence accordingly. I’d love for Brian or his people to speak to all of this. But their non-comment is not an admission of anything. Maybe they’re too lazy to type a response. Who knows?

G'day.  what nonsense this all is.  How does a discussion of Al not joining Mike at Jones Beach morph back into the "lets pin the end of C50 on Brian" agenda ? What's next ; are we going to trot out "Brian did drugs " again , despite the fact that he hasn't touched anything in thirty some odd years ?  I don't know about this or any other email sent between the parties ; I am sure there are hundreds of them; but common sense would dictate a few sure things ; no email like that would be sent in a vacuum ; there would be Pre and post emails as well pertaining to the subject at hand. If this does exist , why wasn't it floated from Day 1 , when Mike was taking all sorts of incoming ICBM's from across the fan base?  Why was there several different reasons given for the termination of C50 ( M&B wanted to play the smaller places that could not accommodate the C50 cost and size, promoters telling Mike to sit down C50 for a year, Mike didn't want to overexposed the brand ....I can keep going)   But in none of the press releases , letters to LA Times and all of that  was mentioned "Brian wanted no more shows" .

Fact is that he wanted to continue and said as much several times, even prior to the termination of C50; I can't be sure but I believe there was even an interview where he said he was henceforth a Beach Boy and was only interested in cutting a new Beach Boys album. That was prior to the end , someone on this board may recall that.  I know personally there was so much more on the table for The Beach Boys ; Madison Square Garden , a huge UK tour , and of course an album deal with Capitol. And Brian was pumped to do all of it. Too bad. I always fly over for the London shows; it's magic ; C50 at RAH is exhibit "A".

As far as Melinda Wilson responding ; why the hell would she even deal with this BS ?
Reply to one Facebook post sent by a teenager put in the absurd position of defending her Dad to a bunch of morons shouting at her ? Or to posts on a web site ??

Now on to Ambah Love's posts.  I talked to B&M both two nights ago and I can say that they felt really bad that Ambah is put in a position that she has to defend her Dad.  They say its often difficult when their own children read hurtful things about them , and they have had to restrain their kids from responding to people who take pleasure in spreading rumors and negativity. They feel that children should not be brought into any adult world squabbles.

Finally , this fiction about "the people around Brian" , the "wifeandmanagers" or as one poster recently put it " Brian brings along a steamboat full of people" ( I am paraphrasing ) ..so I ask again....who are they ? What are their names ? I would like to meet them .  What do they do for Brian ? And Melinda Wilson doesn't count , she is his wife . Jean Sievers doesn't count , she is his manager/publicist.  So someone please inform me who they are . Names please.

Have a great day , Ray