Al joining Mike and Bruce for Jones Beach show

[Sheriff John Stone]

Whether it was him or someone acting on his behalf, if an e-mail was sent that said no more shows, then that's it.

And, if Ambha is telling the truth and such an email existed, Brian and hiswifeandmanagers are lucky that Mike didn't V. Stiviano them. If Mike was in possession of an email from Brian that said, in effect, no more shows, and he showed it to the press after he supposedly "fired Brian", it would've buried  Brian and Melinda, and destroyed their credibility.

[HeyJude]

Whether it was him or someone acting on his behalf, if an e-mail was sent that said no more shows, then that's it.

And, if Ambha is telling the truth and such an email existed, Brian and hiswifeandmanagers are lucky that Mike didn't V. Stiviano them. If Mike was in possession of an email from Brian that said, in effect, no more shows, and he showed it to the press after he supposedly "fired Brian", it would've buried  Brian and Melinda, and destroyed their credibility.

But he didn't do that. Didn't even mention an email or any desire on Brian's part to not do more shows in his letter to the LA Times.

Following your scenario though, then what? It's September 2012 and Brian produces proof of firm offers for Madison Square Garden, other gigs, etc. and says he's ready to do them. Then what? Ball's back in the other court, and so on until nobody cares anymore and we all want to hurl in disgust.

[Sound of Free]

I often get the feeling that if Dennis were still alive, he'd still be in the touring Beach Boys.

I agree on Dennis. If Dennis and Carl had both lived, I think they're all together. Even if Dennis had cleaned up and lived and Carl had still died when he did, I think Dennis stays* and keeps Mike from kicking Al out.

* After a period of mourning for Carl.

[Shady]

Can somebody tell me why al is not a touring beach boy?

Is that a mike decision? Has he ever given a reason

[KittyKat]

They got in a fight around the time of the Super Bowl appearance. It's a long, drawn-out story. Though as I recall, it had something to do with Al feeling disrespected.

[Mike's Beard]

Whether it was him or someone acting on his behalf, if an e-mail was sent that said no more shows, then that's it.

And, if Ambha is telling the truth and such an email existed, Brian and hiswifeandmanagers are lucky that Mike didn't V. Stiviano them. If Mike was in possession of an email from Brian that said, in effect, no more shows, and he showed it to the press after he supposedly "fired Brian", it would've buried  Brian and Melinda, and destroyed their credibility.

But he didn't do that. Didn't even mention an email or any desire on Brian's part to not do more shows in his letter to the LA Times.

Following your scenario though, then what? It's September 2012 and Brian produces proof of firm offers for Madison Square Garden, other gigs, etc. and says he's ready to do them. Then what? Ball's back in the other court, and so on until nobody cares anymore and we all want to hurl in disgust.

But imagine if Brian hadn't changed his mind about doing more shows, do you think Mike would have bleated to the press about 'how it feels like I've been fired by Brian Wilson'?
No matter what went on behind the scenes, everyone should have kept their mouth shut and let the C50 end on a dignified high.

[Awesoman]

Can somebody tell me why al is not a touring beach boy?

Is that a mike decision? Has he ever given a reason

Don't believe these two really get along all that well. 

[GhostyTMRS]

Can somebody tell me why al is not a touring beach boy?

Is that a mike decision? Has he ever given a reason

Don't believe these two really get along all that well.  

It's funny how things change because David Leaf's book paints a picture of Al and Mike getting along like two peas in a pod and with an "us-vs-them" mentality against the Wilsons.

As for me, I never expected or desired the C50 tour to go on indefinitely...especially with that clip of Al saying "one final time" that was used over and over again in every promotional video for it. Right from the get-go we knew this was a finite thing. Frankly, it lasted longer than I thought it would.

[Wirestone]

Whether it was him or someone acting on his behalf, if an e-mail was sent that said no more shows, then that's it.

And, if Ambha is telling the truth and such an email existed, Brian and hiswifeandmanagers are lucky that Mike didn't V. Stiviano them. If Mike was in possession of an email from Brian that said, in effect, no more shows, and he showed it to the press after he supposedly "fired Brian", it would've buried  Brian and Melinda, and destroyed their credibility.

But he didn't do that. Didn't even mention an email or any desire on Brian's part to not do more shows in his letter to the LA Times.

Following your scenario though, then what? It's September 2012 and Brian produces proof of firm offers for Madison Square Garden, other gigs, etc. and says he's ready to do them. Then what? Ball's back in the other court, and so on until nobody cares anymore and we all want to hurl in disgust.

But imagine if Brian hadn't changed his mind about doing more shows, do you think Mike would have bleated to the press about 'how it feels like I've been fired by Brian Wilson'?
No matter what went on behind the scenes, everyone should have kept their mouth shut and let the C50 end on a dignified high.

The difference is, as has been explained rather frequently, is that if Brian didn't want to do more shows, Mike would still get to tour as the Beach Boys. There is nothing Mike can possibly be fired from.

[Wirestone]

I often get the feeling that if Dennis were still alive, he'd still be in the touring Beach Boys.

If Dennis was still alive, a fuckload of other things would be different. I doubt Brian would have ever even tried a solo career, for one thing.

[Awesoman]

Can somebody tell me why al is not a touring beach boy?

Is that a mike decision? Has he ever given a reason

Don't believe these two really get along all that well.  

It's funny how things change because David Leaf's book paints a picture of Al and Mike getting along like two peas in a pod and with an "us-vs-them" mentality again the Wilsons.

Yeah but things can change.  I believe these two were a lot tighter in the 70's and the 80's, but it sounds like something eventually went awry.  Al was almost completely omitted from the Summer In Paradise sessions (well phase I of them anyway).  I used to stick up for Al back when he was being sued for using the "Beach Boys" name in his Family & Friends band.  But now I've come to the conclusion that Al can be kind of whiny and even oblivious and clueless at times, and he's probably created a lot of his own problems within the group.  This recent "about-face" with Mike is a good example.  

[Jonathan Blum]

Ambha might be a teen in the opinion of many.  But what she has is first-hand knowledge.

Second-hand knowledge, surely, through her dad?

Again, not to slag her off, but she's not more of a direct line on what happened than, say, Al saying himself how he saw things go down.

Cheers,
Jon Blum

[GhostyTMRS]

But I recall Warren Duffy (former Beach Boys publicist) doing a podcast interview last year where he recalled Al being thrown out of the band multiple times during the 70's but it never leaked to the public. Now that was the first time I had heard any of that. I always believed the David Leaf scenario and I'm not sure how accurate Duffy's statements are (or Leaf's for that matter), but it just goes to show you that nothing is ever black and white in the Beach Boys world and we'll never know these answers (luckily, the music is the only thing that's actually important).  

[Jim V.]

Can somebody tell me why al is not a touring beach boy?

Is that a mike decision? Has he ever given a reason

They got in a fight around the time of the Super Bowl appearance. It's a long, drawn-out story. Though as I recall, it had something to do with Al feeling disrespected.

I recall from Jon Stebbins' book on David Marks, that basically Mike had begun trying to make moves to oust Al as early as the mid '90s and that was the reason why David was being reintegrated into the band. It goes into way more detail in the book, but basically Mike took over the business side more and Carl didn't really mind but Al was rocking the boat, and Mike ended up ousting him, coincidentally around the time Carl died. In Al's defense, at least his ouster coincided with him not appearing the NASCAR album. Ha.

[bachelorofbullets]

From what I remember, Al has stated publicly many times that he doesn't see how any one person (Mike) can claim to own the beach boys name and tour as "the beach boys".  The wedge this creates will never allow them to truly reconcile.

[KittyKat]

From what I remember, Al has stated publicly many times that he doesn't see how any one person (Mike) can claim to own the beach boys name and tour as "the beach boys".  The wedge this creates will never allow them to truly reconcile.

Which puts Al on the other side of Brian, who voted to give Mike the exclusive tour license, whether Brian regrets that decision now or not. Al doesn't seem to be clear on the business side of things. The reason BRI made that decision is they didn't want two or three different acts touring as the Beach Boys, as other legacy bands have had happen. Also, Al could have made a claim to at least using Beach Boys as part of his own band title, but didn't want to pay the license fee, thus ending up in court and winding up with Mike holding the Beach Boy title, with Brian's vote on his side. Why even have a BRI license at all if no one is going out there touring with that name? I guess Al can argue they can make Mike stay home or make him tour as Mike Love and not use the Beach Boy name, but I'm sure Al doesn't mind cashing the 25% license fee checks, no matter how small or large or medium size they may be.

[kiwi surfer]

From what I remember, Al has stated publicly many times that he doesn't see how any one person (Mike) can claim to own the beach boys name and tour as "the beach boys".  The wedge this creates will never allow them to truly reconcile.

Mike does not 'own' The Beach Boys name, BRI is the registered owner of “The Beach Boys” trademark.

[Nicko1234]

I like Al but there are stories about problems with him in the group for a long time. I didn`t know about the claims that he was almost thrown out in the 1970s (or if I did, I`d forgotten) but in The Wilson Project book it is Brian and Gary Usher who it states thought that Al was a complete jerk. Then Al was essentially fired prior to Summer in Paradise being released before he was reinstated. Then finally Mike got David Marks in to replace him and Al subsequently wasn`t on good terms with either Mike or Brian for the next several years.

I can understand completely how Al can`t believe that Mike was allowed to use the Beach Boys name on his own from 1998 onwards and it must have been unimaginably tough for him. I think history has proved why that decision was taken though as Mike, for all his faults, is a decent businessman and has done a very good professional job with the touring band. I can`t help feeling that Al might have afforded to pay to use the BB F&F name if he had shown more business sense and hadn`t decided that his band required 6 lead vocalists!

[kiwi surfer]

From what I remember, Al has stated publicly many times that he doesn't see how any one person (Mike) can claim to own the beach boys name and tour as "the beach boys".  The wedge this creates will never allow them to truly reconcile.

Which puts Al on the other side of Brian, who voted to give Mike the exclusive tour license, whether Brian regrets that decision now or not. Al doesn't seem to be clear on the business side of things. The reason BRI made that decision is they didn't want two or three different acts touring as the Beach Boys, as other legacy bands have had happen. Also, Al could have made a claim to at least using Beach Boys as part of his own band title, but didn't want to pay the license fee, thus ending up in court and winding up with Mike holding the Beach Boy title, with Brian's vote on his side. Why even have a BRI license at all if no one is going out there touring with that name? I guess Al can argue they can make Mike stay home or make him tour as Mike Love and not use the Beach Boy name, but I'm sure Al doesn't mind cashing the 25% license fee checks, no matter how small or large or medium size they may be.

Whether Alan ever held a license is disputed. However, contrary to what you say, BRI did initially at least, vote to issue non-exclusive licences. Alan voted in favour. At this time Mike and Alan did not want to tour together and Brian not at all. So it is probable we are talking about two non-exclusive licences since the licenses were only available to the principals. Again, contrary to what you say, Alan was prepared to pay a royalty to BRI but the parties could not agree on the terms and conditions of the license. Alan continued to tour as variations of the Beach Boys and Family & Friends. During this time period, BRI sent Alan cease and desist letters objecting to his use of the trademark. in 2001 the district court granted summary judgment in favour of BRI and issued a permanent injunction against Alan's use of the trademark. That decision was upheld on  appeal before the Court of Appeals.

So you can see how things got out of hand pretty darn easily.

[KittyKat]

The courts were merely ruling for BRI, but BRI was lined up 3 to 1 against Al. Including Brian, and Carl's heirs, as well.  I had read (perhaps wrongly) that Al didn't want to pay the fee, but I'd never heard that Al simply couldn't reach financial terms with BRI. Who knows what BRI was asking for and what Al wanted. Maybe they wanted Al to pay as much as Mike and he realized he wasn't the box office draw of Mike, who had the Beach Boys title alone. I'm not sure if Mike and his band pay a set license fee or if its a percentage of the box office take.

[Nicko1234]

The courts were merely ruling for BRI, but BRI was lined up 3 to 1 against Al. Including Brian, and Carl's heirs, as well.  I had read (perhaps wrongly) that Al didn't want to pay the fee, but I'd never heard that Al simply couldn't reach financial terms with BRI. Who knows what BRI was asking for and what Al wanted. Maybe they wanted Al to pay as much as Mike and he realized he wasn't the box office draw of Mike, who had the Beach Boys title alone. I'm not sure if Mike and his band pay a set license fee or if its a percentage of the box office take.

BRI wanted Al to pay 17.5% (Mike pays 20%). Al offered to pay 5% if memory serves.

[Dave in KC]

I just know our family got the Disney album and the Gershwin effort the last few years and they are perfection. Any objection to that? I love BW music even if it originates from other sources. His magic spin has kept us keepin' on. Any objection to that? I really like Al Jardine and hope this all washes out. But it's Brian who has produced the new music and Alan has a fine solo effort in his release. It's those two who have kept me in the fold. Not f'n Back in the USSR. Are you a Beach Boy aficionado or otherwise? And  it' s only the suite that made Radio what it is. The last 3 cuts are Beach Boys perfection. Sorry, Pisces Brother or whatever it's called, doesn't cut it.

[Nicko1234]

I just know our family got the Disney album and the Gershwin effort the last few years and they are perfection. Any objection to that? I love BW music even if it originates from other sources. His magic spin has kept us keepin' on. Any objection to that? I really like Al Jardine and hope this all washes out. But it's Brian who has produced the new music and Alan has a fine solo effort in his release. It's those two who have kept me in the fold. Not f'n Back in the USSR. Are you a Beach Boy aficionado or otherwise? And  it' s only the suite that made Radio what it is. The last 3 cuts are Beach Boys perfection. Sorry, Pisces Brother or whatever it's called, doesn't cut it.

I think I must have turned over two pages at once. 

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

I just know our family got the Disney album and the Gershwin effort the last few years and they are perfection. Any objection to that? I love BW music even if it originates from other sources. His magic spin has kept us keepin' on. Any objection to that? I really like Al Jardine and hope this all washes out. But it's Brian who has produced the new music and Alan has a fine solo effort in his release. It's those two who have kept me in the fold. Not f'n Back in the USSR. Are you a Beach Boy aficionado or otherwise? And  it' s only the suite that made Radio what it is. The last 3 cuts are Beach Boys perfection. Sorry, Pisces Brother or whatever it's called, doesn't cut it.

"Are you a Beach Boy aficionado or otherwise?" What's that supposed to mean? If you count Pisces Brother (a damn fine little tune) in there with all the other good stuff, this means you're NOT a Beach Boy aficionado? Wouldn't this make you MORE of a Beach Boys aficionado?

We're all entitled to our opinions. I fully agree on BW greatness, but there is a lot more to love, and a lot more to the story.

So Brian interprets Gershwin and Disney stuff to deserved acclaim? Well, I acclaim Mike and Bruce for keeping their end of the rope burning. Big deal. Why make it so hard to simply be a fan? Why make it seem like something based on anger in keeping one's opinion narrow?

The last 3 cuts of TWGMTR are indeed Beach Boys perfection, but so is Isn't It Time..... When Brian's done with his awesome verses and then Mike comes with "The good times never have to end" ..... MAN!!!! THAT is The Beach Boys! And then Bruce doing the high chorus!!!! Perfection!!! ..... There's room for all sorts of awesomeness in the world.

[Pretty Funky]

I seem to remember an print interview with Al from about 10 years ago where he talked about the early 90s and the issues of the time. He was pushing for less shows with a more esoteric set list. Ring any bells?

I guess he had two young sons, had been on the road for 30 years singing the hits and wanted a change, as he thought the audience might.

Even now that would not sit well with Mike, let alone 20 years ago.

edit.
Checked on the Goldmine interview but no mention of less shows, only some with an orchestra. I'm sure there was another interview that went into that period in some detail.