Al joining Mike and Bruce for Jones Beach show

[startBBtoday]

I don't know whose fault it is, nor do I really care, but it's extremely unfortunate that there is a founding member of The Beach Boys who wants to be a Beach Boy but can't.

I have no doubt that Al can be difficult to work with and I'm sure that it's far more cost-effective for Mike to go out with Bruce. It just sucks.

It does suck and this isn't a bag on Mike but I can't imagine anyone but "newer" fans even consider his version "The Beach Boys."  This is no different in my eyes than when he and Dean Torrence headlined shows together as "Mike and Dean w/ the Endless Summer Beach Band."

I grew up loving the Beach Boys and the way Mike runs the show now has completely devalued "the brand" to the point where I don't take them seriously at all.  It does suck and it is sad that these guys can't get along.

Sad and stupid.

I wouldn't call myself a newer fan (I've been a fan since 1993, so maybe some on this board would consider me as such), but I do consider Mike's band as the current version of The Beach Boys. Brian Wilson isn't The Beach Boys and Alan Jardine barely plays live. So, since Mike has been the frontman since the beginning, and since Bruce also is in the band, they're The Beach Boys. It's not ideal. It's the exact opposite of ideal, but they are The Beach Boys, and Brian is allowing them to be The Beach Boys.

I know everyone loved C50, and I did too, but The Beach Boys died when Carl Wilson died. We've just been watching individual members ever since.

There are a multitude of unanswered questions that we fans on this board would like to see answered. However, presently, are there any questions more important than what would it take to change/amend the license, do the voters even WANT to change the license...

Think the answer to that is obvious: no. The only person who would want to is Alan. Mike's happy doing what he loves as the legally sanctioned (touring) Beach Boys... Carl's estate isn't going to pass up on a nice chunk of cash every year obtained by doing precisely nothing purely on a point of alleged artistic integrity... ditto Brian's management (Brian himself could likely care less, to judge by his infrequent comments on the situation), the more so as he now has a separate identity: any way you slice that, it's a 3-1 vote. Ain't gonna happen.

Totally agree. Next question....Why doesn't it (the positions that you laid out) seem to bother fans on this board? Because they/we/I LIKE this setup? Because they/we/I know that NOTHING is going to change? Why isn't there more outrage that our band is going down the path of The Platters on a PBS Special? Do you realize how dangerously close that is true? God forbid, but Bruce could visit his cardiologist next week for a checkup, and the doctor could advise him to retire from the road. Mike would then hire a keyboardist to replace Bruce. Would anyone - Mike, Brian, Al, Carl's Estate - even blink?

My guess is that Mike would hire David Marks, and if he said no, Mike would bring Alan back in. Mike knows he needs at least one other member to be taken seriously at all.

[Andrew G. Doe]

There are a multitude of unanswered questions that we fans on this board would like to see answered. However, presently, are there any questions more important than what would it take to change/amend the license, do the voters even WANT to change the license...

Think the answer to that is obvious: no. The only person who would want to is Alan. Mike's happy doing what he loves as the legally sanctioned (touring) Beach Boys... Carl's estate isn't going to pass up on a nice chunk of cash every year obtained by doing precisely nothing purely on a point of alleged artistic integrity... ditto Brian's management (Brian himself could likely care less, to judge by his infrequent comments on the situation), the more so as he now has a separate identity: any way you slice that, it's a 3-1 vote. Ain't gonna happen.

Totally agree. Next question....Why doesn't it (the positions that you laid out) seem to bother fans on this board? Because they/we/I LIKE this setup? Because they/we/I know that NOTHING is going to change? Why isn't there more outrage that our band is going down the path of The Platters on a PBS Special? Do you realize how dangerously close that is true? God forbid, but Bruce could visit his cardiologist next week for a checkup, and the doctor could advise him to retire from the road. Mike would then hire a keyboardist to replace Bruce. Would anyone - Mike, Brian, Al, Carl's Estate - even blink?

My guess is that Mike would hire David Marks, and if he said no, Mike would bring Alan back in. Mike knows he needs at least one other member to be taken seriously at all.

Given that he's been touring with Bruce since 1998 in this configuration and there's a huge segment of the fanbase that hasn't "taken him seriously" for one second of that time (2012 excepted of course), your premise is at best shaky. Remember, it's Mike who has the license and as long as he adheres to the terms laid down, he could tour with One Direction/5 Seconds Of Summer backing him up if he so wished. Fact is, however unpalatable it is to some folk here, at the vast majority of the shows these days, the punters don;t care who's up there playing: they come to hear the music. At HCP, I doubt more than 150 of the 3000 attending knew who was who. Or cared.

[startBBtoday]

There are a multitude of unanswered questions that we fans on this board would like to see answered. However, presently, are there any questions more important than what would it take to change/amend the license, do the voters even WANT to change the license...

Think the answer to that is obvious: no. The only person who would want to is Alan. Mike's happy doing what he loves as the legally sanctioned (touring) Beach Boys... Carl's estate isn't going to pass up on a nice chunk of cash every year obtained by doing precisely nothing purely on a point of alleged artistic integrity... ditto Brian's management (Brian himself could likely care less, to judge by his infrequent comments on the situation), the more so as he now has a separate identity: any way you slice that, it's a 3-1 vote. Ain't gonna happen.

Totally agree. Next question....Why doesn't it (the positions that you laid out) seem to bother fans on this board? Because they/we/I LIKE this setup? Because they/we/I know that NOTHING is going to change? Why isn't there more outrage that our band is going down the path of The Platters on a PBS Special? Do you realize how dangerously close that is true? God forbid, but Bruce could visit his cardiologist next week for a checkup, and the doctor could advise him to retire from the road. Mike would then hire a keyboardist to replace Bruce. Would anyone - Mike, Brian, Al, Carl's Estate - even blink?

My guess is that Mike would hire David Marks, and if he said no, Mike would bring Alan back in. Mike knows he needs at least one other member to be taken seriously at all.

Given that he's been touring with Bruce since 1998 in this configuration and there's a huge segment of the fanbase that hasn't "taken him seriously" for one second of that time (2012 excepted of course), your premise is at best shaky. Remember, it's Mike who has the license and as long as he adheres to the terms laid down, he could tour with One Direction/5 Seconds Of Summer backing him up if he so wished. Fact is, however unpalatable it is to some folk here, at the vast majority of the shows these days, the punters don;t care who's up there playing: they come to hear the music. At HCP, I doubt more than 150 of the 3000 attending knew who was who. Or cared.

Then why does he keep Bruce around at all?

Edit: Except to dole out a bigger check and add some credibility?

The general public is stupid, but they know a 70-year-old man when they see one.

[RubberSoul13]

There are a multitude of unanswered questions that we fans on this board would like to see answered. However, presently, are there any questions more important than what would it take to change/amend the license, do the voters even WANT to change the license...

Think the answer to that is obvious: no. The only person who would want to is Alan. Mike's happy doing what he loves as the legally sanctioned (touring) Beach Boys... Carl's estate isn't going to pass up on a nice chunk of cash every year obtained by doing precisely nothing purely on a point of alleged artistic integrity... ditto Brian's management (Brian himself could likely care less, to judge by his infrequent comments on the situation), the more so as he now has a separate identity: any way you slice that, it's a 3-1 vote. Ain't gonna happen.

Totally agree. Next question....Why doesn't it (the positions that you laid out) seem to bother fans on this board? Because they/we/I LIKE this setup? Because they/we/I know that NOTHING is going to change? Why isn't there more outrage that our band is going down the path of The Platters on a PBS Special? Do you realize how dangerously close that is true? God forbid, but Bruce could visit his cardiologist next week for a checkup, and the doctor could advise him to retire from the road. Mike would then hire a keyboardist to replace Bruce. Would anyone - Mike, Brian, Al, Carl's Estate - even blink?

My guess is that Mike would hire David Marks, and if he said no, Mike would bring Alan back in. Mike knows he needs at least one other member to be taken seriously at all.

Given that he's been touring with Bruce since 1998 in this configuration and there's a huge segment of the fanbase that hasn't "taken him seriously" for one second of that time (2012 excepted of course), your premise is at best shaky. Remember, it's Mike who has the license and as long as he adheres to the terms laid down, he could tour with One Direction/5 Seconds Of Summer backing him up if he so wished. Fact is, however unpalatable it is to some folk here, at the vast majority of the shows these days, the punters don;t care who's up there playing: they come to hear the music. At HCP, I doubt more than 150 of the 3000 attending knew who was who. Or cared.

Then why does he keep Bruce around at all?

Mike can't clap. Have you heard him with that tambourine from hell?

[urbanite]

If ticket sales for the current lineup of the Beach Boys dropped off in a significant way, would Mr. Jardine be  drafted to tour?

[kiwi surfer]

If ticket sales for the current lineup of the Beach Boys dropped off in a significant way, would Mr. Jardine be  drafted to tour?

If ticket sales were to significantly decline it's a bit of a stretch to think that the presence of Al would make any noticeable difference.

Now, if we weren't talking about the current line-up and say Al was the only original still able to tour then yes his presence in whatever entity then held the touring licence would make a significance difference. Keep in mind we would still be talking about pretty modest numbers.

[Kurosawa]

There are a multitude of unanswered questions that we fans on this board would like to see answered. However, presently, are there any questions more important than what would it take to change/amend the license, do the voters even WANT to change the license...

Think the answer to that is obvious: no. The only person who would want to is Alan. Mike's happy doing what he loves as the legally sanctioned (touring) Beach Boys... Carl's estate isn't going to pass up on a nice chunk of cash every year obtained by doing precisely nothing purely on a point of alleged artistic integrity... ditto Brian's management (Brian himself could likely care less, to judge by his infrequent comments on the situation), the more so as he now has a separate identity: any way you slice that, it's a 3-1 vote. Ain't gonna happen.

Poor Al. What a way for your career to end. I can't imagine what it must feel like to be kicked out of your own band, treated like a side kick if not ignored by your bandmates/second family and just left out to dry. If I were in his shoes, I'd be driving myself crazy thinking "Really guys? All those decades of music...all the ups and downs we've been through...that means so little to you that you're just gonna abandon me like this?"

It's like something out of a Greek tragedy. He could have anything in the world...except play with the band he co-founded. Oh the cruel irony!

But that is what makes Al a great example of exactly what a Beach Boy is. Because one way or another, they all either are destroyed by substance illness or they destroy themselves. If there is anything that can be counted on, it is the Beach Boys doing stupid and self-destructive things.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Ya know, maybe we're making too big a deal about this..... After all, Brian's had cart blanche regarding showing up or not since, what, 1963? So, now it's Al not turning up. But still the show goes on. That's just life and that's just The Beach Boys.

[ToneBender631]

Ya Iknow, maybe we're making too big a deal about this..... After all, Brian's had cart blanche regarding showing up or not since, what, 1963? So, now it's Al not turning up. But still the show goes on. That's just life and that's just The Beach Boys.

That was kind of my point in an earlier post. Al is getting raked over the coals by a few on this board and yet this is a (relatively) small blip in the grand scheme of allowances given to others in the band, particularly Brian and Dennis, over the years.

And more to the point, there's more to this story that we don't yet know.

[RioGrande]

Ya Iknow, maybe we're making too big a deal about this..... After all, Brian's had cart blanche regarding showing up or not since, what, 1963? So, now it's Al not turning up. But still the show goes on. That's just life and that's just The Beach Boys.

That was kind of my point in an earlier post. Al is getting raked over the coals by a few on this board and yet this is a (relatively) small blip in the grand scheme of allowances given to others in the band, particularly Brian and Dennis, over the years.

And more to the point, there's more to this story that we don't yet know.

At this point, I hope we are spared from ever knowing it. If we knew the "facts", we would twist them in any case, to accomodate our respective agendas.

[HeyJude]

If ticket sales for the current lineup of the Beach Boys dropped off in a significant way, would Mr. Jardine be  drafted to tour?

It’s an interesting issue. While the tour continues to be plenty successful, there has been a drop off in the size of venues in the last 10-20 years. But that has less to do with the members on stage, and more to do with incessantly touring every year, all year. That’s why the calls to give the reunion lineup a “rest” and build up demand are silly. Yes, if the reunion lineup continued to tour every year for a decade, the value would be diminished. But that scenario really doesn’t apply in a case where we were talking about maybe one or two more legs of a reunion tour, and where we’re talking about a “brand” that literally hasn’t been off the touring market since 1961. Every single year they have toured, and since the 80’s or 90’s it’s been pretty steady since there is less recording and less band member schedules to juggle.

If McCartney had toured every year all year between 1989 and now, he wouldn’t be booking outdoor stadiums this year either.

To answer the original question, even before Jones Beach I wouldn’t have counted on Al getting a call. 

[HeyJude]

It was reported on the BBB board on June 6 that Al wouldn't be appearing so I imagine Mike knew that  by then, if not earlier. (Funny, a certain regular poster here disputed that news, even offering to bet people, oh the irony  ).

Point is, Mike knew a month ago and his mgt failed to remove Al from the billing.

And Al failed to remove Jones Beach from his list of upcoming gigs. After that rumor was posted on Beach Boys Britain. If you read that thread on the BBB board, someone even posted there they knew they rumor could not possibly be true, because they went over to check Al's personal website, and the Jones Beach gig was still listed as an upcoming Al Jardine personal appearance, even after that rumor was circulated.  Don't you think Al's management or whoever runs his website should be held to the same standards as Mike's management?

None of the parties should have put Al's name out there (Al, Mike, LiveNation) if there was even a slight possibility that Al might not appear. If it was an informal agreement all along, no matter what happened to make it not happen, they should have had Al just show up and play without advance billing; it would have made for some nice news stories for everyone involved if he would have shown up to play out of the blue. Or at most dropped a hint that "a very special guest may appear." Then, if only Dave showed up, they were covered for a "very special guest" whether Al appeared or not.

But the problem is that I think there’s a pretty strong possibility that Al was pursued in order to hype up the show and sell more tickets. This seems even more likely if in fact Live Nation was the entity who contacted Al rather than Mike’s operation.

I see. Did Mike also hack Al's website to insert the Jones Beach date to his list of gigs to come?

Live Nation and any other entities that thought to invite Al to the show were doing so to boost ticket sales, and I was simply pointing out that this would not allow for a “surprise” unannounced appearance by Al.  Nothing about fault there, just an observation on the issue of making it an “unannounced” appearance.

[timbnash68]

It was reported on the BBB board on June 6 that Al wouldn't be appearing so I imagine Mike knew that  by then, if not earlier. (Funny, a certain regular poster here disputed that news, even offering to bet people, oh the irony  ).

Point is, Mike knew a month ago and his mgt failed to remove Al from the billing.

And Al failed to remove Jones Beach from his list of upcoming gigs. After that rumor was posted on Beach Boys Britain. If you read that thread on the BBB board, someone even posted there they knew they rumor could not possibly be true, because they went over to check Al's personal website, and the Jones Beach gig was still listed as an upcoming Al Jardine personal appearance, even after that rumor was circulated.  Don't you think Al's management or whoever runs his website should be held to the same standards as Mike's management?

None of the parties should have put Al's name out there (Al, Mike, LiveNation) if there was even a slight possibility that Al might not appear. If it was an informal agreement all along, no matter what happened to make it not happen, they should have had Al just show up and play without advance billing; it would have made for some nice news stories for everyone involved if he would have shown up to play out of the blue. Or at most dropped a hint that "a very special guest may appear." Then, if only Dave showed up, they were covered for a "very special guest" whether Al appeared or not.

But the problem is that I think there’s a pretty strong possibility that Al was pursued in order to hype up the show and sell more tickets. This seems even more likely if in fact Live Nation was the entity who contacted Al rather than Mike’s operation.

I see. Did Mike also hack Al's website to insert the Jones Beach date to his list of gigs to come?

Live Nation and any other entities that thought to invite Al to the show were doing so to boost ticket sales, and I was simply pointing out that this would not allow for a “surprise” unannounced appearance by Al.  Nothing about fault there, just an observation on the issue of making it an “unannounced” appearance.

I am a somewhat recent fan,  and follower of this board...having seen the Beach Boys 50th Anniversary Tour it is apparent to me that several entities were simply trying to recreate the magic of two summers ago. There was probably an agent involved who went to Live Nation on behalf of the current touring Beach Boys line up and simply asked if adding Al would allow them to play a bigger venue. and by playing a bigger venue i am certain they asked for more money. Live Nation promotes Nationally as well as locally, so this show while  Live Nation branded , could have been staged by the local  Live Nation promoter in the N Y area…. It would seem almost certain that whomever approached Al was acting on behalf of all parties…. and all parties had to know what was going on. Maybe it was as simple as this: when it became apparent that without Brian, or the hype and publicity around a new record,  tickets sales weren't going to increase dramatically , everyone went back to business as usual, without Al…..No harm no foul and if you bought your tickets just because Al was going to be there than i am sure you could get your money back. I looked at Ticketmaster and it looks like about 2,000 tickets maybe a little more have been sold. Thats almost exactly what i would have expected from The Mike and Bruce show….. without Al

[guitarfool2002]

Ya Iknow, maybe we're making too big a deal about this..... After all, Brian's had cart blanche regarding showing up or not since, what, 1963? So, now it's Al not turning up. But still the show goes on. That's just life and that's just The Beach Boys.

That was kind of my point in an earlier post. Al is getting raked over the coals by a few on this board and yet this is a (relatively) small blip in the grand scheme of allowances given to others in the band, particularly Brian and Dennis, over the years.

And more to the point, there's more to this story that we don't yet know.

I don't want to come off as too critical with this, but trying to bring this into the fold is bringing in a parallel or comparison that has no relevance...at least in my opinion...other than to suggest a "well, Brian did this too" or whatever the case.

By nature of when I was born I can't claim fan heritage beyond the 80's unless you count my childhood memories of hearing BB's songs in the 70's. BUT - I say that because anyone with a basic knowledge of how things played out going back to 1963 or whenever knows the story. For those with doubts or questions, let's summarize it.

Other than Brian, and up to 1967 (or a few years beyond depending on how far you want to take it), name one other member who could write, arrange, and produce the music for the Beach Boys.

Can't do it? Exactly.

So this one guy decides to stay off the road at various times to do that kind of work...work incidentally that most other bands in the Beach Boys peer group and success level had someone else available to do in the form of producers and whatnot.

Just like all of the comments about the agreement giving Mike control over the name "Beach Boys" and sole control over using that name to tour, *the band agreed to it* and Brian stayed in LA writing, recording, and producing the records. The arrangement continued into the 70's, right? They couldn't wait to get Brian at least involved enough in the records even if it was him moving a few faders on a mix and saying "that's the one!", they could bank on the producer credit to get more interest in whatever record they were selling. Fact.

Among those 60's records when Brian was off the road are some of the finest examples of rock and pop music from the 1960's, if not of all time...so the trade-off worked, didn't it? The legacy is in the fucking music, my friends, it always was and always will be. There will be generations long after our own listening to those recordings, while whatever f***ed-up nonsense happened around which touring band did what and how various members got screwed out of whatever it may be will be lost to time and the historians. The legacy of this band is the music.

And if there were concessions made to Brian to allow him to not tour and concessions made to Mike to allow him to keep the name "Beach Boys" after Carl passed, or whatever else happened with Dennis, then so be it.

Honestly, a few decades from now you could get an actual group of trained seals, throw them bucketloads of fish, line them up like they used to do on Ed Sullivan blowing bicycle horns and clapping their fins as they play a rendition of I Get Around on the horns, bill them as the "Beach Boys 2034", and it wouldn't diminish the legacy of the original recordings one bit.

Again, whatever was agreed on after Carl's passing was a majority decision...they agreed to it, right? As they did when Brian said I'm staying off the road to work in the studio. They agreed to it, right? Look how it turned out. 1963-66, one of the most amazing runs any band had in that era.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

All very good points, but it's always been something of a disappointment Brian didn't stay there playing bass and singing those high parts live... Yeah, things would have been different if he had and we can't have it both ways, BUT it was a schism that was there pretty much forever more and a band where schisms were acceptable....

[Robbie Mac]

All very good points, but it's always been something of a disappointment Brian didn't stay there playing bass and singing those high parts live... Yeah, things would have been different if he had and we can't have it both ways, BUT it was a schism that was there pretty much forever more and a band where schisms were acceptable....

When the music that resulted from the original setup is that good, who cares about schisms? No one is going to care about schisms in the future when they listen to the Beach Boys.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Oh, I agree with both you guys. Just saying, when it comes to the live Beach Boys, nothing/no one is guaranteed.

In fact, there will likely be a live "Beach Boys" still going once all the original guys are gone.

Paul Stanley has openly proclaimed that KISS will be touring the world once they're all gone too.

[Generation42]

At HCP, I doubt more than 150 of the 3000 attending knew who was who. Or cared.

You know what?

I don't doubt the truth of that statement.

But that's f'ed up.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

All very good points, but it's always been something of a disappointment Brian didn't stay there playing bass and singing those high parts live... Yeah, things would have been different if he had and we can't have it both ways, BUT it was a schism that was there pretty much forever more and a band where schisms were acceptable....

When the music that resulted from the original setup is that good, who cares about schisms? No one is going to care about schisms in the future when they listen to the Beach Boys.

After thinking this one over, I have to disagree in that, The Beach Boys story is so damn interesting, people will be discussing such schisms until the end of time.....

I mean, just look at how many pages this specific thread is, dedicated to one specific schism!!! 

[Andrew G. Doe]

I shall henceforth introduce the word "schism" into every conversation I can... along with "patronymic", "ameliorate" and "Sasquatch".

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

I shall henceforth introduce the word "schism" into every conversation I can... along with "patronymic", "ameliorate" and "Sasquatch".

"Who you calling Sasquatch"?

[Emdeeh]

Will the Jones Beach show even happen, now that Hurricane Arthur is spinning up the coast? Current predictions call for it to be offshore in the NYC/Long Island area on Saturday.

If the show gets rescheduled, that could open the door for Alan to attend after all.

[Foster's Freeze]

Will the Jones Beach show even happen, now that Hurricane Arthur is spinning up the coast? Current predictions call for it to be offshore in the NYC/Long Island area on Saturday.

If the show gets rescheduled, that could open the door for Alan to attend after all.

If you glass is half full/half empty, as a Beach Boys fan God did/didn't want this show to happen!   

[Emdeeh]

After watching an area weathercast, it looks like the storm will be clear of the area by Saturday evening, so NEVERMIND....

[ppk700]

After watching an area weathercast, it looks like the storm will be clear of the area by Saturday evening, so NEVERMIND....

I certainly hope the weather will be cleared up in time! I'm traveling 4 hours down the road, and Al or no Al, I'm really pumped up for this show!