Al joining Mike and Bruce for Jones Beach show

[RioGrande]

A friendly reminder: we don't know anything about the reasons behind Al's decision.  Most of what has been posted here is not only speculation, but biased speculation.

It`s true that we don`t know the reasons behind Al`s decision. But I`m not sure how the speculation can be described as biased. Unless it is now being claimed that there is an anti-Al faction on the board as well.   Al announced that he was appearing at this show and then cancelled without any explanation or apology (and his statement basically tried to imply that it was only a rumour that he was ever appearing in the first place). Therefore the focus of attention is certain to be on him.

Now it may be that Al feels he had strong justification for cancelling his appearance with Mike. But that would probably just make it even more unlikely that they will ever appear together on stage again.

Yours is exactly what I call "biased speculation". Your logic is 0 + 0 = 1.

Anti-Al faction? The problem with poor Al is that he has no faction, either pro or anti. He's simply easy bashing material. AGD's attitude to him speaks volumes. You can bash Al ad libitum, nobody is coming to defend him (maybe save Yours Truly).  

And that's my main issue with many folks here, who claim to be fans "of all Beach Boys", but have a completely pro-Mike agenda. I like Mike, overall. The only real problem I have with him is with his overzealous fans, who only manage to cast a shadow on him.  

[RioGrande]

Ha! Love to talk to Al. Good old Ohio country boy Al.

But seriously, I think I know how all this will play out. You will ask the 'tough' questions, Mike will spin like he's always spun, and you will report it all as FACT. The rest of us doubters will be marginalized as Brianistas, fan boys, or pick your pejorative.

For all the piling on c/o RStone, I'd love to hear a he said/she said autopsy on this crazy band - whether by Stone, or say a British publication. I'm afraid I'd only accept your opinions Andrew as being representative of the status quo, not the greater whole. Another voice would be needed to give a fair voice to Al and Brian.

Sure. The state of things in BB fanworld is really unfortunate at the moment. The main problem is that the pro-Brian and pro-Al voices seem afraid to speak up. Where are you, guys? I started here as a would-be troll, and am trying to become "legit" just to speak against the loud... I don't know if minority or majority, who would have us believe the unbelievable.

I was not permabanned as a self-declared troll. Maybe I'll be now. 

[RioGrande]

He has talent that he let's get detracted from with oddball behavior.

Honestly which Beach Boy doesn't that sentence describe....

Cuz I definitely feel that it's true for Brian, Denny, Mike, Al, and Bruce. Perhaps maybe only Carl is the only one who didn't make a ton of boneheaded decisions and his only truly odd display was on the '78 Aussie tour. All the other guys, well, they've all wasted months, years, and even decades with either mental health problems (Brian) or just weird agendas and deep seated weirdness (the other guys).

Ahem... all the Beach Boys seem to me much less weird then what I usually read here (including myself in the bunch). Just sayin'.

[Nicko1234]

Yours is exactly what I call "biased speculation". Your logic is 0 + 0 = 1.

Anti-Al faction? The problem with poor Al is that he has no faction, either pro or anti. He's simply easy bashing material. You can bash Al ad libitum, nobody is coming to defend him (maybe save Yours Truly).  

And that's my main issue with many folks here, who claim to be fans "of all Beach Boys", but have a completely pro-Mike agenda. I like Mike, overall. The only real problem I have with him is with his overzealous fans, who only manage to cast a shadow on him. 

 

I think it`s more a case of 1=1.

Al announced the show on his website. Al then declared, 6 weeks later, that reports of him appearing were false. Factual stuff.

Of course Al has a pro-faction and I am happy to declare myself as one of them. I am even one of the hardy few who joined his fanclub in order to receive his PT Cruiser single years ago (maybe I shouldn`t admit that   ). His solo album received generally very positive comments on this board and I think everyone acknowledges that he is by far the best singer of the remaining members.

But in this scenario his is the position that has changed. If it were Mike who was suddenly announcing without explanation that the decision had been made that Al wasn`t appearing anymore then you could bet your life that Mike would be the one getting it in the neck and rightly so.

[Jonathan Blum]

Al said he was doing the show -- fact.  Al later said he wasn't doing the show -- fact.  The reasons for what caused him to pull out -- at this point, pretty much entirely speculation.  The conclusions about whether those reasons are therefore something worth dumping the usual net.blame and scorn on him for -- basically groundless.

I look forward to hearing more of Mike's and Al's sides of the story before condemning anyone.

Cheers,
Jon Blum

[Pretty Funky]

Why all the pro-anti member talk? If a group member does something well we say so. If they f*** up we say so. If Brian has a bad show and I say so I'm pro-Mike? If I don't like Pisces Brothers I'm a Brianista?

OSD aside, it usually pretty balanced.

[Mike's Beard]

It doesn't look good for any more potential reunions at the moment does it?

[Andrew G. Doe]

Never say never: these are The Beach Boys after all. Remember, in 2010/2011 Brian was saying he'd never work with them again when he knew full well the wheels were fully in motion for the C50.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Anti-Al faction? The problem with poor Al is that he has no faction, either pro or anti. He's simply easy bashing material. AGD's attitude to him speaks volumes. You can bash Al ad libitum, nobody is coming to defend him (maybe save Yours Truly).  

And that's my main issue with many folks here, who claim to be fans "of all Beach Boys", but have a completely pro-Mike agenda. I like Mike, overall. The only real problem I have with him is with his overzealous fans, who only manage to cast a shadow on him.  

My (current) attitude towards Alan is informed by the undeniable facts that he allowed people to believe he would be at the Jones Beach Show for some 40-odd days (it was even posted on his own website as such) before, in very short order:

saying he's not doing it...
claiming any such info was only reports or rumors...
quite possibly calling Brian and said "want me to play with you this summer ?" again (dunno if he did, dunno if he didn't but on past form my money's on the did)...

Lest we forget, this is the same Alan I , and pretty much everyone here, was rightly praising for his stunning vocal performances on both the C50 tour and new album. It's just that sometimes, like all the others, he can make it very difficult to understand exactly what's going on inside his head at times like these. Like the rest of you, I'd dearly love to see any emails generated by the latest nonsense. If the Mike interview comes off, maybe I'll ask him to bring some along. Oh hey, and while I'm at it I'll ask to see the email Ambha referenced.  Sounds like a plan.

There's an old Tshirt slogan that goes "Those of you who think you know everything are really annoying to those of us who do", and I know there are people posting here who do know, if not the actual specifics, then at least a helluva lot more than other posters making logical and illogical deductions from a few lines of text. And I'm sure they're wetting themselves each time they log on. 

[The Shift]

With all the anti-Mike, anti-Brian, and anti-Al stuff being flung around - hypothethtical as much of it is, I'd like to declare for the record that I'm simply pro-The Beach Boys. All of 'em. They might each have their eccentricities and I'm sad that their story as a creative force as a collective assembly of original members seems in the past, but their contribution to our culture is significant and the contribution that that contribution has contributed to my own life is considerable, and I am grateful for that.

Anyone else here love this band, collectively and individually?

[Alan Smith]

With all the anti-Mike, anti-Brian, and anti-Al stuff being flung around - hypothethtical as much of it is, I'd like to declare for the record that I'm simply pro-The Beach Boys. All of 'em. They might each have their eccentricities and I'm sad that their story as a creative force as a collective assembly of original members seems in the past, but their contribution to our culture is significant and the contribution that that contribution has contributed to my own life is considerable, and I am grateful for that.

Anyone else here love this band, collectively and individually?

+

I do

[Andrew G. Doe]

With all the anti-Mike, anti-Brian, and anti-Al stuff being flung around - hypothethtical as much of it is, I'd like to declare for the record that I'm simply pro-The Beach Boys. All of 'em. They might each have their eccentricities and I'm sad that their story as a creative force as a collective assembly of original members seems in the past, but their contribution to our culture is significant and the contribution that that contribution has contributed to my own life is considerable, and I am grateful for that.

Anyone else here love this band, collectively and individually?

Me. They're like family: sometimes they annoy, sometimes they can be dumb, and now and them you want to shake them until their teeth rattle. But they're The Beach Boys and unlike some people who claim to fans, I acknowledge the contribution of all of them to the saga. I also admit they have a history that extends back beyond 1988, and that Brian's whole solo career is not only informed by his having been a Beach Boy since 1961 but would have been utterly impossible without that small fact. Others on other boards would dearly love to revise that history. Foolish people.

And after all the nonsense - and it is truly transcendent nonsense - there's always the music. And that makes all the difference to me.

[Pretty Funky]

Hope an interview comes off AGD.

I guess the opportunity is there for Al to get in first here via Matt should he want to. Matt has been known to post.

[Nicko1234]

With all the anti-Mike, anti-Brian, and anti-Al stuff being flung around - hypothethtical as much of it is, I'd like to declare for the record that I'm simply pro-The Beach Boys. All of 'em. They might each have their eccentricities and I'm sad that their story as a creative force as a collective assembly of original members seems in the past, but their contribution to our culture is significant and the contribution that that contribution has contributed to my own life is considerable, and I am grateful for that.

Anyone else here love this band, collectively and individually?

Amen to this.

[HeyJude]

quite possibly calling Brian and said "want me to play with you this summer ?" again (dunno if he did, dunno if he didn't but on past form my money's on the did)...

I'd say that's a pretty big assumption. Considering Al played no shows with Brian between 1999 and 2006 and 2007 and 2011, I somehow doubt Al plays with Brian unless Brian's people want him to. I don't think he's able to just "invite himself."

More importantly, I could think of far worse things than Al playing with Brian in concert.

[Nicko1234]

I'd say that's a pretty big assumption. Considering Al played no shows with Brian between 1999 and 2006 and 2007 and 2011, I somehow doubt Al plays with Brian unless Brian's people want him to. I don't think he's able to just "invite himself."

More importantly, I could think of far worse things than Al playing with Brian in concert.

Absolutely. I don`t think anyone would argue with that. It will be interesting to see what lead vocals Al is given for the 2 shows...

If he hadn`t agreed to play a show with another band at that specific time, I don`t think anyone would have anything vaguely negative about Al playing shows with Brian.

[Pretty Funky]

The thing we have to remember is it is unlikely Brian could manage a 90 minute show on his own now. The last solo tour was 2011 with the Gershwin album wasn't it? He needs someone sharing the bill IMO.

I wonder if he had some kind of verbal agreement with Brian months ago when his UK gigs were announced.

[ToneBender631]

The thing we have to remember is it is unlikely Brian could manage a 90 minute show on his own now. The last solo tour was 2011 with the Gershwin album wasn't it? He needs someone sharing the bill IMO.

I think he could manage a 90 minute show on his own..Now, whether he actually wants to when he could be touring with Al and David, or, for that matter, w/ the Beach Boys is an entirely different discussion altogether.

Anyway, at this point we don't really have any more specifics about why the bottom fell out other than AGD inferring that M&B are really upset with Al. So I guess that feeling is mutual now.

[Nicko1234]

The thing we have to remember is it is unlikely Brian could manage a 90 minute show on his own now. The last solo tour was 2011 with the Gershwin album wasn't it? He needs someone sharing the bill IMO.

I wonder if he had some kind of verbal agreement with Brian months ago when his UK gigs were announced.

Sorry but I can`t really agree with any of that.

Firstly because even if singing all of the lead vocals were too much for Brian (which I doubt for 2 shows), he already has other band members like Matt Jardine and Scott Bennett who can sing lead vocals.

And secondly because if that were true then he never would have agreed to do the show with Mike and Bruce in the first place.

[Emdeeh]

Anyone else here love this band, collectively and individually?

Yup, since 1962!

[KittyKat]

The thing we have to remember is it is unlikely Brian could manage a 90 minute show on his own now. The last solo tour was 2011 with the Gershwin album wasn't it? He needs someone sharing the bill IMO.

I wonder if he had some kind of verbal agreement with Brian months ago when his UK gigs were announced.

Nope. The Brian summer gigs were announced before it was announced that Al would play with Mike. Therefore, Al would have been included on the bill/announcement back then. Remember, too, that Al had toured with Brian last fall, and Al was announced as being in Brian's band before that tour.

It's pretty clear Brian intentionally did not invite Al to the two summer gigs when they were first planned. Maybe Al decided to entertain the idea of playing with Mike as a ploy to get Brian's attention (t try to at least get Brian to include him on any fall tour), but if that were the case, it was pretty stupid and made Al look unprofessional when he backed out at the last moment. BTW, it would also make Al seem unprofessional if he had "some kind of verbal agreement" with Brian then turned around and agreed to do with Mike instead, leaving Brian in the lurch.

[ToneBender631]

The thing we have to remember is it is unlikely Brian could manage a 90 minute show on his own now. The last solo tour was 2011 with the Gershwin album wasn't it? He needs someone sharing the bill IMO.

I wonder if he had some kind of verbal agreement with Brian months ago when his UK gigs were announced.

Nope. The Brian summer gigs were announced before it was announced that Al would play with Mike. Therefore, Al would have been included on the bill/announcement back then. Remember, too, that Al had toured with Brian last fall, and Al was announced as being in Brian's band before that tour.

It's pretty clear Brian intentionally did not invite Al to the two summer gigs when they were first planned. Maybe Al decided to entertain the idea of playing with Mike as a ploy to get Brian's attention (t try to at least get Brian to include him on any fall tour), but if that were the case, it was pretty stupid and made Al look unprofessional when he backed out at the last moment. BTW, it would also make Al seem unprofessional if he had "some kind of verbal agreement" with Brian then turned around and agreed to do with Mike instead, leaving Brian in the lurch.

"It's pretty clear Brian intentionally did not invite Al" adds quite a bit of negative overtones to something that might've been as simple as the promoter initially saying they were only willing to pay for Brian, and not Al and David as well. And suggesting that Al agreed to play with Mike as a ploy to get Brian's attention? You've just intimated a whole level of negativity and duplicity on Al's part that I don't even know where to begin...

Al backed out of a one-off show with M&B that Live Nation brokered, with no explanation out of Mike or Al as to why the plans fell apart.

Could it have been about pay? Sure. Could it have been about future gigs? Sure. Could it have been about the setlist and what role Al would have in the show? Sure. Could it have been about Al being offended that Live Nation approached him and not Mike? Sure. Could it be that Mike told Al to "take it or leave it"? Sure. Could it have been about six other things? YES! So why even intimate the worst possible (and rather illogical) motivation that could possibly have lead to Al backing out out of the gig?

[Dave in KC]

The thing we have to remember is it is unlikely Brian could manage a 90 minute show on his own now. The last solo tour was 2011 with the Gershwin album wasn't it? He needs someone sharing the bill IMO.

I think he could manage a 90 minute show on his own..Now, whether he actually wants to when he could be touring with Al and David, or, for that matter, w/ the Beach Boys is an entirely different discussion altogether.

Anyway, at this point we don't really have any more specifics about why the bottom fell out other than AGD inferring that M&B are really upset with Al. So I guess that feeling is mutual now.

Bruce has always tried to stay out of public band politics and decisions. The fact that he is included with Mike as being really upset with Al speaks volumes. This move has hurt the band's credibility and has generally caused a big pain in the rear with matters concerning the Jones Beach show. They decided to invite Al and it turned around and bit them in the a$$.  Bad juju for Bruce. Bad enough to join the fracas.

[urbanite]

I hope Al and Mike do not comment about the July 4th show.  The matter is basically over, there is no need to create any additional controversy about it.

[KittyKat]

The thing we have to remember is it is unlikely Brian could manage a 90 minute show on his own now. The last solo tour was 2011 with the Gershwin album wasn't it? He needs someone sharing the bill IMO.

I wonder if he had some kind of verbal agreement with Brian months ago when his UK gigs were announced.

Nope. The Brian summer gigs were announced before it was announced that Al would play with Mike. Therefore, Al would have been included on the bill/announcement back then. Remember, too, that Al had toured with Brian last fall, and Al was announced as being in Brian's band before that tour.

It's pretty clear Brian intentionally did not invite Al to the two summer gigs when they were first planned. Maybe Al decided to entertain the idea of playing with Mike as a ploy to get Brian's attention (t try to at least get Brian to include him on any fall tour), but if that were the case, it was pretty stupid and made Al look unprofessional when he backed out at the last moment. BTW, it would also make Al seem unprofessional if he had "some kind of verbal agreement" with Brian then turned around and agreed to do with Mike instead, leaving Brian in the lurch.

"It's pretty clear Brian intentionally did not invite Al" adds quite a bit of negative overtones to something that might've been as simple as the promoter initially saying they were only willing to pay for Brian, and not Al and David as well. And suggesting that Al agreed to play with Mike as a ploy to get Brian's attention? You've just intimated a whole level of negativity and duplicity on Al's part that I don't even know where to begin...

Al backed out of a one-off show with M&B that Live Nation brokered, with no explanation out of Mike or Al as to why the plans fell apart.

Could it have been about pay? Sure. Could it have been about future gigs? Sure. Could it have been about the setlist and what role Al would have in the show? Sure. Could it have been about Al being offended that Live Nation approached him and not Mike? Sure. Could it be that Mike told Al to "take it or leave it"? Sure. Could it have been about six other things? YES! So why even intimate the worst possible (and rather illogical) motivation that could possibly have lead to Al backing out out of the gig?

Maybe because I was responding someone else's proposal that maybe Al made a verbal agreement to Brian months ago to appear at his summer gigs?  Which if were true (and it's likely not), that Al not only backed out of his plans with Mike at the last minute, but that he had backed out of plans with Brian that were made earlier in order to make plans to play with Mike, which he then backed out of to play with Brian, who he would have already backed out of. If that makes sense. But since I don't believe Al had ever planned to play with Brian this summer until that decision was make the past week or two, it doesn't matter.