50th Anniversary live double CD up for pre-order on Amazon

[AndrewHickey]

As far as those that claim the compression inherent in digital streaming "brings out the auto-tune", that's just not correct. In some cases, the slap back delay that they used on the vocals (probably used to mimic the doubling of vocals on early albums) accentuate some of the pitch correction. A slap back like that is commonly used as a technique to give vocals some energy and sit better in a mix. There's a reason that John Lennon was so in love with it, after all.

I can tell the difference between autotune, double-tracking and slapback echo. All are used on the CD to various degrees.

Audio compression (for file size and transfer) often has an impact on stereo imaging, subtle loss of certain high and low frequencies, etc. but it doesn't accentuate auto-tuning.

There is a 'warble' one can get when using lossy compression like MP3 (I know Spotify uses ogg vorbis, and I don't actually know the details of the compression techniques used there, but I suspect they're similar). That slight warble can sound similar to the rapid pitch-shifting one can get from autotune when there's a slightly hesitant note that's between two other pitches.

To my ears (which aren't especially good) when listening to the same track as an MP3 sample, on Spotify and then on the CD, all through the same speakers, the MP3 sounds most obviously fake and the CD least bad, though there's not much in it. That's just my ears though.

You can blame Joe Thomas for being heavy-handed with the pitch correction in spots but I can assure you that Brian was 100% behind his efforts. Here's a quote from Brian discussing pitch correction (http://www.emusician.com/news/0766/another-day-peering-into-the-creative-genius-of-brian-wilson/139364)

"Electronic Musician: Do you prefer the digital way of recording to the old days of analog?

BW: Yes, because you can make pitch correction a lot better."

I encourage everyone to read the rest of that article as it's an excellent insight into his modern creative process and has some great perspective from Scott, as well. As noted,  think more likely what we're hearing in spots are vocal comps (there were a whole lot of shows to comp a perfect vocal from!), some auto-tuning and some of Mike's natural vocal delivery.

Note the date. That's from 2008, and he's talking about That Lucky Old Sun -- an album on which autotune is used, but is used subtly and with restraint, by a skilled engineer, to touch up the odd bum note slightly. Not just slathered over everything to make it sound robotic.

As far as the "random crowd sounds", while they sound out of place on this CD the crowd noise "swells" were 100% consistent with the shows that I went to on this tour.

Yes, the audience reaction would swell and ebb in a show -- but it would do so naturally. For much of this CD, the audience is mixed incredibly low or mixed out altogether, then when it peaks it's mixed far higher. It's a bad attempt to recreate the natural audience reaction, rather than actually being the real reaction itself. Compare to any of the audience recordings floating around and you'll immediately notice the difference.

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

I heartily enjoyed listening to the new CD. I think its fine.  Instead of nit-picking and looking for moments of dishonesty I decided to just enjoy the show and remember the thrill of seeing them in person.

 Yes the lead on H&V is fishy; and yes “Isn’t It Time” sounds like the studio version with added applause. But most of the time the tweaking isn’t that blatantly obvious and distracting. I especially liked “All This Is That” with Brian singing his part strong. Plus we finally have “WHEEEENNNNNNNNNN….” on CD so I can crank my sub-woofer and break a few windows with The Power of Love.

Last time I checked Joe Thomas produced a successful Beach Boys reunion album that received critical acclaim and went to #3 on the charts. What have you done lately?

[Cabinessenceking]

I heartily enjoyed listening to the new CD. I think its fine.  Instead of nit-picking and looking for moments of dishonesty I decided to just enjoy the show and remember the thrill of seeing them in person.

 Yes the lead on H&V is fishy; and yes “Isn’t It Time” sounds like the studio version with added applause. But most of the time the tweaking isn’t that blatantly obvious and distracting. I especially liked “All This Is That” with Brian singing his part strong. Plus we finally have “WHEEEENNNNNNNNNN….” on CD so I can crank my sub-woofer and break a few windows with The Power of Love.

Last time I checked Joe Thomas produced a successful Beach Boys reunion album that received critical acclaim and went to #3 on the charts. What have you done lately?

I think there are plenty of producers who could and would gladly deliver a finer product of this live album than Mr Joe Thomas. He did an aweful job with this live album. I think I could've done better actually. I would simply pick out better live performances and stich it legitimately together. It wouldn't shine like a polished  pan but it would be real and enjoyable.

[rab2591]

Yes the lead on H&V is fishy; and yes “Isn’t It Time” sounds like the studio version with added applause. But most of the time the tweaking isn’t that blatantly obvious and distracting. I especially liked “All This Is That” with Brian singing his part strong. Plus we finally have “WHEEEENNNNNNNNNN….” on CD so I can crank my sub-woofer and break a few windows with The Power of Love.

THIS. Also, All This Is That, TWGMTR, When I Grow Up, California Saga are quickly becoming my favorite versions of these songs.

There are some cringeworthy autotuned moments on the album, but it's not worth a boycott imo. I found most of it to be enjoyable.

[AndrewHickey]

Last time I checked Joe Thomas produced a successful Beach Boys reunion album that received critical acclaim and went to #3 on the charts. What have you done lately?

Not made the best vocal group of the last fifty years sound like they're singing through vocoders.
Therefore I win.

[Forrest Gump]

To my ears (which aren't especially good) when listening to the same track as an MP3 sample, .... That's just my ears though.

 

too bad your mouth doesn't follow suit

[drbeachboy]

Last time I checked Joe Thomas produced a successful Beach Boys reunion album that received critical acclaim and went to #3 on the charts. What have you done lately?

Not made the best vocal group of the last fifty years sound like they're singing through vocoders.
Therefore I win.

Andrew, they are not The Beach Boys of the 60s, 70's, 80s or even the 90's. These are 70+ year old men singing leads that they recorded 40+ years ago. I'm with you on the messy autotune pieces here, but if not autotune, they should have gotten their asses into the studio and fixed their live flaws.

Also, when listening over the internet, not only is their compression on ogg or mp3 files (which most of the time does not affect the sound), but there is transmission compression, just like on AM & FM stations. I would not totally trust what I hear from an Internet radio broadcast.

[Iron Horse-Apples]

To my ears (which aren't especially good) when listening to the same track as an MP3 sample, .... That's just my ears though.

too bad your mouth doesn't follow suit

Yes Andrew, how dare you disagree with the consensus opinion. Haven't you heard, people like it now. Catch up old fellow.

[AndrewHickey]

Last time I checked Joe Thomas produced a successful Beach Boys reunion album that received critical acclaim and went to #3 on the charts. What have you done lately?

Not made the best vocal group of the last fifty years sound like they're singing through vocoders.
Therefore I win.

Andrew, they are not The Beach Boys of the 60s, 70's, 80s or even the 90's. These 70+ year old men singing leads that they recorded 40+ years ago. I'm with you on the messy autotune pieces here, but if not autotune, they should have gotten their asses into the studio and fixed their live flaws.

I agree, if they genuinely couldn't get decent recordings of every song. That said, these leads sound worse autotuned than many of the untweaked audience recordings do. That's just wrong no matter how you look at it.

I don't even object to the use of autotune to fix things -- just use it with a little taste.

(And there's no possible reason or excuse for the shoddiness of the rest of the mix).

[drbeachboy]

Last time I checked Joe Thomas produced a successful Beach Boys reunion album that received critical acclaim and went to #3 on the charts. What have you done lately?

Not made the best vocal group of the last fifty years sound like they're singing through vocoders.
Therefore I win.

Andrew, they are not The Beach Boys of the 60s, 70's, 80s or even the 90's. These 70+ year old men singing leads that they recorded 40+ years ago. I'm with you on the messy autotune pieces here, but if not autotune, they should have gotten their asses into the studio and fixed their live flaws.

I agree, if they genuinely couldn't get decent recordings of every song. That said, these leads sound worse autotuned than many of the untweaked audience recordings do. That's just wrong no matter how you look at it.

I don't even object to the use of autotune to fix things -- just use it with a little taste.

(And there's no possible reason or excuse for the shoddiness of the rest of the mix).

Well, the mix is a whole other issue and I blame that on Brian. I know he wanted the vocals on top, as that's his style. I feel bad for the backing band. Wonderful work mixed way too low and/or exorcised out completely.

[Mikie]

This album is f***ed....

I always thought album reviews should consist of no more than 4 words.

"This album is great"

"This album sucks"

so on and so forte

"This album is f***ed" is a great four letter review for this piece of trash

And you're being TOTALLY unproductive pissing and moaning about it, Shady.  You are contributing absolutely NOTHING to this thread by crying about what's already done.  Write a review or contribute something positive for a change, eh?

Shut up Mike. I know you've been on BB's message boards for over 50 years so you're a little past the point of banter but here's a little piece of advice, not  every post on this board has to be a detailed case study of the topic. We're dealing with a pretty amusing situation where a pretty bad BB's live cd has been released, a few of the posts are going to be tounge in cheek and in my case a failed attempt at humor 

I'll hand in my 500 word review next week, professor

It's not really a humorous topic and you're far from funny. In fact, I can't remember if you've ever posted something funny here. All you're good at is jumping on the preverbial negative bandwagon and spewing out cuss words, seemingly to try to fit in.

Now, time for me to go to work.  Do you work, Shady?  Or is this message board your full time job?

[Lowbacca]

This album is f***ed....

I always thought album reviews should consist of no more than 4 words.

"This album is great"

"This album sucks"

so on and so forte

"This album is f***ed" is a great four letter review for this piece of trash

And you're being TOTALLY unproductive pissing and moaning about it, Shady.  You are contributing absolutely NOTHING to this thread by crying about what's already done.  Write a review or contribute something positive for a change, eh?

Shut up Mike. I know you've been on BB's message boards for over 50 years so you're a little past the point of banter but here's a little piece of advice, not  every post on this board has to be a detailed case study of the topic. We're dealing with a pretty amusing situation where a pretty bad BB's live cd has been released, a few of the posts are going to be tounge in cheek and in my case a failed attempt at humor 

I'll hand in my 500 word review next week, professor

It's not really a humorous topic and you're far from funny. In fact, I can't remember if you've ever posted something funny here. All you're good at is jumping on the preverbial negative bandwagon and spewing out cuss words, seemingly to try to fit in.

Now, time for me to go to work.  Do you work, Shady?  Or is this message board your full time job?

WTF?

[Mikie]

Just a few thoughts on this as I've been following this thread with some interest...

I've been listening to the Spotify stream the past day with various set-ups: MacBook Pro laptop speakers, iPhone earbuds, AKG K240S headphones and Mackie HR824s.  While the auto-tuning is noticeable in spots, most of it's not because of auto-tune "artifacts" (these occur when the retune speed is set too fast, often used for effect, not function), but simply because Mike, Brian and Jeff's pitch is a little too perfect. The one song that had the tell tale artifacts to me was Mike's vocals on the first verse of "Don't Back Down". As far as those that claim the compression inherent in digital streaming "brings out the auto-tune", that's just not correct. In some cases, the slap back delay that they used on the vocals (probably used to mimic the doubling of vocals on early albums) accentuate some of the pitch correction. A slap back like that is commonly used as a technique to give vocals some energy and sit better in a mix. There's a reason that John Lennon was so in love with it, after all.

Audio compression (for file size and streaming purposes) often has an impact on stereo imaging, subtle loss of certain high and low frequencies, etc. but it doesn't accentuate auto-tuning. Now, if these files were mastered differently for digital download/streaming we could be talking about compression in the sense of dynamics and eq'ing for ear buds, but that shouldn't really have any effect on the perception of vocal tuning.

The Heroes and Villains vocal is not from BWPS. It is, however, double tracked and likely a comp of various shows with a bit of pitch correction done to tighten things up. The timbre of Brian's voice from the opening is very different from what's on BWPS. There's a lot less power behind his vocals when comparing the two and you can hear a bit more of the "softening"  that characterizes his live vocal delivery the past few years.  

You can blame Joe Thomas for being heavy-handed with the pitch correction in spots but I can assure you that Brian was 100% behind his efforts. Here's a quote from Brian discussing pitch correction (http://www.emusician.com/news/0766/another-day-peering-into-the-creative-genius-of-brian-wilson/139364)

"Electronic Musician: Do you prefer the digital way of recording to the old days of analog?

BW: Yes, because you can make pitch correction a lot better."

I encourage everyone to read the rest of that article as it's an excellent insight into his modern creative process and has some great perspective from Scott, as well. As noted, I think more likely what we're hearing in spots are vocal comps (there were a whole lot of shows to comp a perfect vocal from!), some auto-tuning and in the case of Mike, some of his natural vocal delivery. He's always had some unique methods of moving between certain intervals, anyway.

As far as the "random crowd sounds", while they sound out of place on this CD the crowd noise "swells" were 100% consistent with the shows that I went to on this tour. Most of the venues had video screens and more often than not, the crowd would react to what was on the screen. Take a listen to the organ solo on "Catch A Wave". Just as it starts we hear a swell of audience noise. This was probably from the camera man cutting to Darian or Scott playing or from Mike having one of his ridiculous "make a face, smile and point" moments and it happened to be caught on camera and put on the screens. It could've been minimized a bit by turning down the crowd mics but it also may've been picked up in the stage mic'ing. The other explanation is that they were also mixing to video in prep for the DVD/BR release later this year and it didn't strike anyone that, "Hmm, this might sound weird without the visual cues when we put this out on CD."  

Just my .02.

Now THAT was a well thought out, productive post and a good read.  Not bad for a first post, Tonebender!  Looking forward to more.  

[AndrewHickey]

Well, the mix is a whole other issue and I blame that on Brian. I know he wanted the vocals on top, as that's his style. I feel bad for the backing band. Wonderful work mixed way too low and/or exorcised out completely.

I'm not at all sure Brian had any involvement in the mix at all. And certainly, if you compare it to any of Brian's solo live CDs or DVDs, none of those drop any instrumental parts. Admittedly, compared to Brian's solo shows one extra keyboard and between one and three extra guitars (depending on song and show) had to be balanced, but it could have been done much better.

[Mikie]

This album is f***ed....

I always thought album reviews should consist of no more than 4 words.

"This album is great"

"This album sucks"

so on and so forte

"This album is f***ed" is a great four letter review for this piece of trash

And you're being TOTALLY unproductive pissing and moaning about it, Shady.  You are contributing absolutely NOTHING to this thread by crying about what's already done.  Write a review or contribute something positive for a change, eh?

Shut up Mike. I know you've been on BB's message boards for over 50 years so you're a little past the point of banter but here's a little piece of advice, not  every post on this board has to be a detailed case study of the topic. We're dealing with a pretty amusing situation where a pretty bad BB's live cd has been released, a few of the posts are going to be tounge in cheek and in my case a failed attempt at humor 

I'll hand in my 500 word review next week, professor

It's not really a humorous topic and you're far from funny. In fact, I can't remember if you've ever posted something funny here. All you're good at is jumping on the preverbial negative bandwagon and spewing out cuss words, seemingly to try to fit in.

Now, time for me to go to work.  Do you work, Shady?  Or is this message board your full time job?

WTF?

Whatsamatter?

[AndrewHickey]

To my ears (which aren't especially good) when listening to the same track as an MP3 sample, .... That's just my ears though.

too bad your mouth doesn't follow suit

Yes Andrew, how dare you disagree with the consensus opinion. Haven't you heard, people like it now. Catch up old fellow.

I don't even dislike the album that much, is the strange thing -- I'm one of the ones who's been saying it doesn't sound nearly as bad on the actual CD as streamed. It's just that the faults it does have are both blatant and deliberate aesthetic choices, and I think it's a shame.

[SMiLE Brian]

I wish the BBs recorded all the C50 shows and released them separately  like Pearl Jam did.

[hypehat]

From that great interview tonebender posted, quoth Mark Linett:

"Brian knows about flying vocals in, and how easy that is to do."

Scott Bennett also talks about how Brian quite liked tuning little bits.

Maybe it's all his idea!

[smile-holland]

This album is f***ed....

I always thought album reviews should consist of no more than 4 words.

"This album is great"

"This album sucks"

so on and so forte

"This album is f***ed" is a great four letter review for this piece of trash

And you're being TOTALLY unproductive pissing and moaning about it, Shady.  You are contributing absolutely NOTHING to this thread by crying about what's already done.  Write a review or contribute something positive for a change, eh?

Shut up Mike. I know you've been on BB's message boards for over 50 years so you're a little past the point of banter but here's a little piece of advice, not  every post on this board has to be a detailed case study of the topic. We're dealing with a pretty amusing situation where a pretty bad BB's live cd has been released, a few of the posts are going to be tounge in cheek and in my case a failed attempt at humor 

I'll hand in my 500 word review next week, professor

It's not really a humorous topic and you're far from funny. In fact, I can't remember if you've ever posted something funny here. All you're good at is jumping on the preverbial negative bandwagon and spewing out cuss words, seemingly to try to fit in.

Now, time for me to go to work.  Do you work, Shady?  Or is this message board your full time job?

As this topic is already turning into yet another lowpoint in the history of this board, could you two please take it to PM's?

And in general: I also want to say that I've seen a tad too many unashamed Joe Thomas bashing comments these last 48 hours. I haven’t heard the CD yet (still waiting for my order to arrive), so my opinion has to wait a bit more. But even if I don’t like what I hear, or think it’s a disgrace for being put out as a BB release, even then I’d use other words to say so. And even if Joe is responsible for the mixing/editing/autonuning; he didn’t release this CD on his own, did he? And if you think Joe did a bad job, then just say that (with the availably evidence to support it, if you want); the name calling and personal insults is totally unnecessary and – to me – to be honest says more about the one who wrote them than about Joe.

[SMiLE Brian]

  Plus we finally have “WHEEEENNNNNNNNNN….” on CD so I can crank my sub-woofer and break a few windows with The Power of Love.

I think I might buy the CD just for that purpose...

[Shady]

This album is f***ed....

I always thought album reviews should consist of no more than 4 words.

"This album is great"

"This album sucks"

so on and so forte

"This album is f***ed" is a great four letter review for this piece of trash

And you're being TOTALLY unproductive pissing and moaning about it, Shady.  You are contributing absolutely NOTHING to this thread by crying about what's already done.  Write a review or contribute something positive for a change, eh?

Shut up Mike. I know you've been on BB's message boards for over 50 years so you're a little past the point of banter but here's a little piece of advice, not  every post on this board has to be a detailed case study of the topic. We're dealing with a pretty amusing situation where a pretty bad BB's live cd has been released, a few of the posts are going to be tounge in cheek and in my case a failed attempt at humor 

I'll hand in my 500 word review next week, professor

It's not really a humorous topic and you're far from funny. In fact, I can't remember if you've ever posted something funny here. All you're good at is jumping on the preverbial negative bandwagon and spewing out cuss words, seemingly to try to fit in.

Now, time for me to go to work.  Do you work, Shady?  Or is this message board your full time job?

Sad display from a grown. 

[pixletwin]

I just got shipping notice on mine from Amazon.. I have already heard the whole thing so I am not to excited. But I don't think it's as bad as a lot of you seem to think, but at times it really seems to be. 

[Rocker]

I just listened to "I get around" (the videoclip). Though you can enjoy it I wonder: WHERE IS THE DAMN AUDIENCE?! I mean during the song (except for when Bruce jumps) you might as well have a studio recording, the clapping is very, very low). The thing sounds flat and lifeless, there's no room to breathe for the music. David's solo is played well but the whole thing has no power.
Have to say though, that thankfully the belnd is there. I guess I will enjoy the album, but it from what I have heard it could've been so much more

Anyway, the video is very cool and I loved the backstage snippet at the end. I hope there will be a DVD with this kind of stuff.

[TV Forces]

I have already heard the whole thing so I am not to excited. But I don't think it's as bad as a lot of you seem to think, but at times it really seems to be.

Well that... says...  nothing.

Plus we finally have “WHEEEENNNNNNNNNN….” on CD so I can crank my sub-woofer and break a few windows with The Power of Love.

You say "finally" as if the fans have been pining for it like "WIBNTLA."

Last time I checked Joe Thomas produced a successful Beach Boys reunion album that received critical acclaim and went to #3 on the charts. What have you done lately?

Oh so I guess he can never do anything wrong because you like it.  If you ever criticize anything ever again, no doubt folks will remind you you're not allowed to have that opinion since you've not produced a #3 album.

[pixletwin]

I have already heard the whole thing so I am not to excited. But I don't think it's as bad as a lot of you seem to think, but at times it really seems to be.

Well that... says...  nothing.

Sometimes it sounds as bad as others have said it does, but for the most part it's ok. Does that pass for TV Forces approval?