50th Anniversary live double CD up for pre-order on Amazon

[hypehat]

This album is f***ed....

Joe Thomas. I bet he passes bad cheques and has never known love.

Like Voldemort. It's his weakness, really.

He still has all his own hair, though.

[18thofMay]

Is anyone going to back me up on the H&V vocal actually being the BWPS take? I feel like I'm going crazy over here.

I overlayed the tracks in Logic: I do believe they're the same vocal track! He has the same emphasis on all the words, exact same timing for his lines, only difference being the autotune and faster timing for the live version.

If Thomas used a studio track WHY DID HE DOUSE IT WITH AUTOTUNE? Makes absolutely no sense.

Yeah, it sounds like some parts are sped up - but the inflection of BWPS is still present, and it just sounds like the same take to me! I'm convinced.  goshdarn, maybe Joe Thomas is actually dangerously talented - LIVE FROM THEIR 50TH ANNIVERSARY TOUR, APART FROM THIS ONE WHICH BRIAN SANG IN 2004. It sets a dangerous precedent.


If the powers that be are reading this, tell Joe Thomas to f*** off, from one Samuel Black esq.

I should probably link to this again - but listen to the Chiba show as well. I did change the tempo of one to more closely match the other, and it appears to be that same vocal there, too, only with that noted extra helping of autotune on the new CD version.

The new CD version (courtesy of Mr. Moustachioto):

http://soundcloud.com/moar-freddie/h-v-snippett



H&V - Chiba:

http://lukpac.org/~dave/Heroes%20And%20Villains%20-%20Chiba,%20Japan%20-%208-16-2012%20-%20Tempo%20Manipulated.mp3

I've been "taken".. Taken sounds different!. NOT the same.

[hypehat]

I have my doubts, still. Like, I wouldn't put it past Joe Thomas, who has proven himself to be a right c*** with TWGMTR.

[Awesoman]

I'll reserve judgement until I actual get my album in the mail, but upon listening to the samples on iTunes, I don't think this album sounds that bad.  Yes, it is overly polished and there are some obvious pitch-correcting effects going on, but on the plus side, it is a pretty complete concert with a great track listing.  It might not be perfect but let's not overreact.  It could be much, much worse. 

I can only imagine the whining and moaning to come once the box set finally graces us with its presence.

[TimmyC]

Just got it in the mail today and popped it in. Listening to track 01 for the very first time as I type this. I LOVE IT!!!! I got goosebumps listening to the intro of each beach boy -- perfect reminder of the greatest concert I've ever seen. I love it!!! ok, here comes track 02..... (applause fading in and out is a little weird I admit...)

[Justin]

So far, the worst offense is "Add Some Music To Your Day."  Sweet Moses....what an abomination.  Brian sounds so sad and like he's being backed up by NSYNC.  And it was one of the best moments of the show.  

I had to put the first few seconds of "Don't Back Down" on repeat a few times.   Oh robo Mike...oh It was hilarious.

[Dave Modny]

Is anyone going to back me up on the H&V vocal actually being the BWPS take? I feel like I'm going crazy over here.

I overlayed the tracks in Logic: I do believe they're the same vocal track! He has the same emphasis on all the words, exact same timing for his lines, only difference being the autotune and faster timing for the live version.

If Thomas used a studio track WHY DID HE DOUSE IT WITH AUTOTUNE? Makes absolutely no sense.

Yeah, it sounds like some parts are sped up - but the inflection of BWPS is still present, and it just sounds like the same take to me! I'm convinced.  goshdarn, maybe Joe Thomas is actually dangerously talented - LIVE FROM THEIR 50TH ANNIVERSARY TOUR, APART FROM THIS ONE WHICH BRIAN SANG IN 2004. It sets a dangerous precedent.


If the powers that be are reading this, tell Joe Thomas to f*** off, from one Samuel Black esq.

I should probably link to this again - but listen to the Chiba show as well. I did change the tempo of one to more closely match the other, and it appears to be that same vocal there, too, only with that noted extra helping of autotune on the new CD version.

The new CD version (courtesy of Mr. Moustachioto):

http://soundcloud.com/moar-freddie/h-v-snippett



H&V - Chiba:

http://lukpac.org/~dave/Heroes%20And%20Villains%20-%20Chiba,%20Japan%20-%208-16-2012%20-%20Tempo%20Manipulated.mp3

I've been "taken".. Taken sounds different!. NOT the same.

Yeah, I mentioned in the original post where I first put this up that this was one word where the attack on the note was different, and thus, I wasn't absolutely sure. I also noted that there was a pitch dip in another note that wasn't in the other one, and that I wondered  if it were simply a product of autotune "straightening it out."

On the other hand, I've heard some earlier examples with some of the pro stuff we've gotten on this tour where things matched identically except for a single word as well. Almost as if someone was trying to deliberately disguise something (e.g. two of the broadcast shows where they simply used Brian's studio bridge vocal from DIA 2012) So, who knows? In any event, the rest is still awfully close. So close that  it's almost impossible to believe that someone could sing it that way identically. But, again, who knows. I honestly don't  for sure.


Here's my original post below with the clips. Note, I also included a clip of the totally unrelated Mermaid version of H%V so one could get some idea what a true, warts and all, live-as-it-happened vocal performance from Brian on that song could sound like.

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,15471.msg369954.html#msg369954
 

[MarcellaHasDirtyFeet]

I hear all of the afore-mentioned problems with the album, but I don't think it's that far off from the live presentation. Very polished, but the BW band itself is very polished. I'm happy to have this anyways. Could have been better, but oh well. It's the Beach Boys...

But Robo Dave on Getcha Back REALLY pisses me off. The rest of it is really cool though, with Al singing his original melodic lines. Dave really does have a Dennis-like tone, and it's neat to hear that on the song.  Too bad it's nearly ruined by the vocal effects.

As for the BWPS theory, I think the possibility of flying that in is far-fetched. There are only so many ways an out of breath old man can fit all of those syllables into that song. I would bet we are hearing a blend of multiple shows and 2012/2013 overdubs. With all of those sources available, would they really have to reach back almost ten years? We saw pics of Brian in the studio last year, seemingly recording vocals. He's a producer of some sort on the live release, and his camp called a lot of the shots for last year's tour-- I don't doubt that he, at least, got a chance to re-record some bits for the live album. Brian might be the only BB to do so, but I think it's a good bet. IMHO

[Wirestone]

We saw pics of Brian in the studio last year, seemingly recording vocals. He's a producer of some sort on the live release, and his camp called a lot of the shots for last year's tour-- I don't doubt that he, at least, got a chance to re-record some bits for the live album. Brian might be the only BB to do so, but I think it's a good bet. IMHO

I don't believe that's correct.

The studio shots that have been circulated most widely were taken this year, and within the last couple of months. They include backing musicians such as Don Was and Jeff Beck. They're clearly for an upcoming BW project.

Finally, I think the evidence against this is simply on the record itself. Brian just sounds horrendous, and he wouldn't if he had been able to re-record.

[Dave Modny]

As for the BWPS theory, I think the possibility of flying that in is far-fetched. There are only so many ways an out of breath old man can fit all of those syllables into that song.

I actually haven't pulled out the BWPS vocal to hear firsthand, so I honestly don't know if that's what they used (i.e. or a new studio vocal instead, etc.), but I'll say this much, you might be shocked at how easy it is to fly-in a vocal track over a new, unrelated backing track when one has the luxury of doing digital time compression, tempo stretching, key transposition, etc. Basically with digital, you can manipulate it inside out and back again...lol.


On the other hand, regardless of what they used, or what they specifically did, one only need to hear a truly live, unfutzed-with vocal to be reminded of just how much work they did on this new release. Not necessarily a bad thing depending on one's point of view, but...

Live, warts-and-all:

http://www.lukpac.org/~dave/Heroes%20And%20Villains%20-%20Mermaid%20Theatre%20-%209-24-2012.mp3

[Shady]

This album is f***ed....

I always thought album reviews should consist of no more than 4 words.

"This album is great"

"This album sucks"

so on and so forte

"This album is f***ed" is a great four letter review for this piece of trash

And you're being TOTALLY unproductive pissing and moaning about it, Shady.  You are contributing absolutely NOTHING to this thread by crying about what's already done.  Write a review or contribute something positive for a change, eh?

Shut up Mike. I know you've been on BB's message boards for over 50 years so you're a little past the point of banter but here's a little piece of advice, not  every post on this board has to be a detailed case study of the topic. We're dealing with a pretty amusing situation where a pretty bad BB's live cd has been released, a few of the posts are going to be tounge in cheek and in my case a failed attempt at humor 

I'll hand in my 500 word review next week, professor

[Gabo]

not  every post on this board has to be a detailed case study of the topic.

I agree. Shady's comments are some of the most amusing on the board and help make it more fun to visit.

Message boards aren't the place for pedantry.

[Shady]

not  every post on this board has to be a detailed case study of the topic.

I agree. Shady's comments are some of the most amusing on the board and help make it more fun to visit.

Message boards aren't the place for pedantry.

Thank you  

At the end of the day the main reason I come here is to have fun, joke around and talk about a band I really like  

[leggo of my ego]

not  every post on this board has to be a detailed case study of the topic.

I agree. Shady's comments are some of the most amusing on the board and help make it more fun to visit.

Message boards aren't the place for pedantry.

Thank you 

At the end of the day the main reason I come here it to have fun, joke around and talk about a band I really like 

  Well no doubt the thread has also been informative, Shady. Thanks to all who purchased it now I can use my money wisely and buy
a CD of Syd Barrett "The Madcap Laughs". 

[Wirestone]

I've been enjoying the new Daft Punk album! At least the robot voices there are intentional. 

[leggo of my ego]

This mix is a PR disaster. Time to run out the MIC boxed set tracklist and distract our attention!

So another Greatest Hits release isn't going save their asses in the Tower this time?

I agree bring on MIC so everyone can forget this sorry Mr. Roboto from Hell, Sorta Live, Sorta Not -- the sooner the better! 

[Wirestone]

I've got it! Joe was just trying to compete with this week's big release!

You know, the same way that he tuned everyone to sound like Adele in the album last summer.

[bossaroo]

as of now, I am boycotting this release. which is a damn shame because the tour was a triumph, the show I caught was a dream come true, and i really like the cover photo too!

but WTF??!!! the Beach Boys are the greatest vocal group of all-time. the glaring and excessive use of autotune/pitch correction is just unforgivable really. it sounds FAKE.

I've been listening to the Mermaid recording and yeah, there's some flat notes. a bunch to be honest. but it's REAL. Brian and Mike sound like human beings, not like a f*cking Speak & Spell.

remember those?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qM8FcN0aAvU

[STE]

Official "I Get Around live 2012" video:

http://youtu.be/fbywM1PDORA


It includes lots of new footage, possibly a hint of what the future (?) "on tour" documentary could look like.


Edit: and the "bra incident" too!

[Nicko1234]

Official "I Get Around live 2012" video:

http://youtu.be/fbywM1PDORA


It includes lots of new footage, possibly a hint of what the future (?) "on tour" documentary could look like.


Edit: and the "bra incident" too!

A nice video but a crappy recording. All of the live energy is gone and it sounds like one of the studio remakes that Adrian Baker did.

[Iron Horse-Apples]

as of now, I am boycotting this release. which is a damn shame because the tour was a triumph, the show I caught was a dream come true, and i really like the cover photo too!

but WTF??!!! the Beach Boys are the greatest vocal group of all-time. the glaring and excessive use of autotune/pitch correction is just unforgivable really. it sounds FAKE.

I've been listening to the Mermaid recording and yeah, there's some flat notes. a bunch to be honest. but it's REAL. Brian and Mike sound like human beings, not like a f*cking Speak & Spell.

remember those?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qM8FcN0aAvU

I have a fantastic Speak and Spell VST called BitSpeek which really does make you sound just like it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bg7ACJrsqM0

[absinthe_boy]

I think the mix, itself, is still the thing that I'm having the hardest time acclimating to. Maybe even more so than the "fixes and fakes." I'm not saying that it has to be some kind of Bob Clearmountain-like, cavernous affair, but nearly everything here sounds like it's being played in a cold, 48 x 48 room. No real concert hall ambience.

I'm going to have to listen on a less ideal hi-fi system. I don't get that. I do get the instruments sounding a bit too crisp but I also get space and ambience. To me the overall sound is very reminiscent of the 1977 Genesis live album "Seconds Out". It has the audience mixed in and out when the producer deemed appropriate, and very accurately recorded vocals and instruments...but somehow retains an ambience.

But that's my ears and my system. As previously noted, I am using a DVD-A player (which I assume also gets the best out of CDs), vintage high current amp and home made speakers.

[Cliff1000uk]

as of now, I am boycotting this release. which is a damn shame because the tour was a triumph, the show I caught was a dream come true, and i really like the cover photo too!

but WTF??!!! the Beach Boys are the greatest vocal group of all-time. the glaring and excessive use of autotune/pitch correction is just unforgivable really. it sounds FAKE.

I've been listening to the Mermaid recording and yeah, there's some flat notes. a bunch to be honest. but it's REAL. Brian and Mike sound like human beings, not like a f*cking Speak & Spell.

remember those?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qM8FcN0aAvU

I have a fantastic Speak and Spell VST called BitSpeek which really does make you sound just like it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bg7ACJrsqM0

Ok-you use that and I'll plug in my Major Morgan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qXYs3kS3SU

[ToneBender631]

Just a few thoughts on this as I've been following this thread with some interest...

I've been listening to the Spotify stream the past day with various set-ups: MacBook Pro laptop speakers, iPhone earbuds, AKG K240S headphones and Mackie HR824s.  While the auto-tuning is noticeable in spots, most of it's not because of auto-tune "artifacts" (these occur when the retune speed is set too fast, often used for effect, not function), but simply because Mike, Brian and Jeff's pitch is a little too perfect. The one song that had the tell tale artifacts to me was Mike's vocals on the first verse of "Don't Back Down". As far as those that claim the compression inherent in digital streaming "brings out the auto-tune", that's just not correct. In some cases, the slap back delay that they used on the vocals (probably used to mimic the doubling of vocals on early albums) accentuate some of the pitch correction. A slap back like that is commonly used as a technique to give vocals some energy and sit better in a mix. There's a reason that John Lennon was so in love with it, after all.

Audio compression (for file size and streaming purposes) often has an impact on stereo imaging, subtle loss of certain high and low frequencies, etc. but it doesn't accentuate auto-tuning. Now, if these files were mastered differently for digital download/streaming we could be talking about compression in the sense of dynamics and eq'ing for ear buds, but that shouldn't really have any effect on the perception of vocal tuning.

The Heroes and Villains vocal is not from BWPS. It is, however, double tracked and likely a comp of various shows with a bit of pitch correction done to tighten things up. The timbre of Brian's voice from the opening is very different from what's on BWPS. There's a lot less power behind his vocals when comparing the two and you can hear a bit more of the "softening"  that characterizes his live vocal delivery the past few years.  

You can blame Joe Thomas for being heavy-handed with the pitch correction in spots but I can assure you that Brian was 100% behind his efforts. Here's a quote from Brian discussing pitch correction (http://www.emusician.com/news/0766/another-day-peering-into-the-creative-genius-of-brian-wilson/139364)

"Electronic Musician: Do you prefer the digital way of recording to the old days of analog?

BW: Yes, because you can make pitch correction a lot better."

I encourage everyone to read the rest of that article as it's an excellent insight into his modern creative process and has some great perspective from Scott, as well. As noted, I think more likely what we're hearing in spots are vocal comps (there were a whole lot of shows to comp a perfect vocal from!), some auto-tuning and in the case of Mike, some of his natural vocal delivery. He's always had some unique methods of moving between certain intervals, anyway.

As far as the "random crowd sounds", while they sound out of place on this CD the crowd noise "swells" were 100% consistent with the shows that I went to on this tour. Most of the venues had video screens and more often than not, the crowd would react to what was on the screen. Take a listen to the organ solo on "Catch A Wave". Just as it starts we hear a swell of audience noise. This was probably from the camera man cutting to Darian or Scott playing or from Mike having one of his ridiculous "make a face, smile and point" moments and it happened to be caught on camera and put on the screens. It could've been minimized a bit by turning down the crowd mics but it also may've been picked up in the stage mic'ing. The other explanation is that they were also mixing to video in prep for the DVD/BR release later this year and it didn't strike anyone that, "Hmm, this might sound weird without the visual cues when we put this out on CD."  

Just my .02.

[Rocker]

Thanks ToneBender631! I enjoyed reading your post.
And welcome to the board!