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Author Topic: Durrie Parks Smile acetates up for sale for $10,000  (Read 69389 times)
Peter Reum
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« Reply #150 on: March 03, 2013, 02:06:17 PM »

As with the Elvis/Sun demos that he cut for his mother, eventually these will surface when it is economically worthwhile to release them.
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« Reply #151 on: March 03, 2013, 02:07:05 PM »

How about "Doe's Eleven" for the job? Grin

If they can't get the acetates, maybe they could at least confirm if his home security system plays the Barry Manilow version of "I Write The Songs" at ear-splitting volume whenever someone trips the motion detectors... Cheesy
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« Reply #152 on: March 03, 2013, 02:18:05 PM »

Or get pistol whipped by Bruce himself.
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« Reply #153 on: March 03, 2013, 02:34:19 PM »

Their contents have seemingly already been archived by the people who run the Beach Boys show nowadays, that's good enough for me, I just hope they end up in good hands.

From the most recent updates I got the impression these had *not* yet been archived much less heard by such people in any official capacity, wasn't the comment along the lines that the people who should hear them (in an official way) have not yet actually heard them? This from someone who has heard them, remember.

Anyone in an unofficial or official capacity who has had any dealings with the Smile material would probably agree that the H&V edit is the real find, again if there was such a reel of tape anywhere to be found containing anything similar to that acetate, or even if there were another copy of this specific edit anywhere else in the archives on acetate, chances are a piece of it would have gone on the box, unless they did have it but sound quality overruled historical value.

Well, at least until Bruce's legendary mega-mix copy of Heroes can be located... Grin

The interesting thing that has not been mentioned thus far is:

If there is an acetate, there was (or is) a 1/4" mono reel of the same thing, in high fidelity. So they may have them in the vaults, or they may have been lost, or taped over after the acetate was cut,  or out there somewhere ...

In fact, in an interview I read w/ Chuck Britz, he mentioned specifically that he would give Brian and the boys 1/4" reels to take home and listen to. Many musicians of the era had home reel players for such purposes. Record execs also had 'em in their offices.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2013, 02:36:39 PM by DonnyL » Logged

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« Reply #154 on: March 03, 2013, 02:36:26 PM »

Does anyone else have the compilation "Remember the Zoo"?
Nevermind

They stuck the BWPS thing on there - my bad.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2013, 03:39:43 PM by leggo of my ego » Logged

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« Reply #155 on: March 03, 2013, 02:38:56 PM »

So Andy, how did your listening session with these acetates transpire?  Did you go with Durrie to her storage facility in Arizona and pick them up or did you go over to her house and put them on a stereo system or did she let you borrow them temporarily to listen to them at your house? Where did you listen to them? And to your knowledge, has Alan Boyd and/or Mark Linette heard these acetates first hand?

And I think you said that something (one of the acetates or a tape) surfaced after September and it was too late to include it on the Smile release? Did I read that right?

I heard them here in L.A. at a third party's house. And as of yesterday morning, the acetates had yet to be heard by the people who should hear them.

In which case, someone isn't trying anything like hard enough, and it's not in the tower. Exactly how difficult can it be to call Capitol or get in touch with Mark, Alan or even Brian ?
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« Reply #156 on: March 03, 2013, 02:48:07 PM »

Also just noticed that all the old articles from my site are still up -- some interesting stuff that hasn't surfaced elsewhere if anyone is looking for some reading material:

http://troun.tripod.com/articles.html
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« Reply #157 on: March 03, 2013, 03:16:54 PM »

This H&V / IIGS edit has me very excited. This could be a version of H&V that was wiped from existence, we know he did this. This could be the only copy.  I couldn't honestly care about the quailty.
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« Reply #158 on: March 03, 2013, 03:26:54 PM »

Their contents have seemingly already been archived by the people who run the Beach Boys show nowadays, that's good enough for me, I just hope they end up in good hands.

From the most recent updates I got the impression these had *not* yet been archived much less heard by such people in any official capacity, wasn't the comment along the lines that the people who should hear them (in an official way) have not yet actually heard them? This from someone who has heard them, remember.

Anyone in an unofficial or official capacity who has had any dealings with the Smile material would probably agree that the H&V edit is the real find, again if there was such a reel of tape anywhere to be found containing anything similar to that acetate, or even if there were another copy of this specific edit anywhere else in the archives on acetate, chances are a piece of it would have gone on the box, unless they did have it but sound quality overruled historical value.

Well, at least until Bruce's legendary mega-mix copy of Heroes can be located... Grin

The interesting thing that has not been mentioned thus far is:

If there is an acetate, there was (or is) a 1/4" mono reel of the same thing, in high fidelity. So they may have them in the vaults, or they may have been lost, or taped over after the acetate was cut,  or out there somewhere ...

In fact, in an interview I read w/ Chuck Britz, he mentioned specifically that he would give Brian and the boys 1/4" reels to take home and listen to. Many musicians of the era had home reel players for such purposes. Record execs also had 'em in their offices.

I have posted elsewhere about that, just not on this board, but yes - that is absolutely correct what you said about acetates coming from a tape source, no doubt.

My contention, and it's been this way for a long time, touches on what you said: We (fans) would bemoan the fact that *only* an acetate, a scratchy-distorted-lo fi-whatever- acetate was all that we had for a few choice Smile fragments or sections. Namely Barnyard, parts of Heroes, Child Is Father, and various others...now adding to that list if and when confirmed Brian's test edit of Heroes featuring Great Shape. But all of that on acetate came from a tape, obviously - tapes which have not surfaced and probably will not.

I'd say at this point some of those are most likely to fall into the past tense "was" category, otherwise the box set and other releases would not have sourced cleaned-up acetates and would have instead used the source tapes.

Also, even in the Jules Seigel article, and others, it is mentioned that Brian played unlabeled acetates for assembled guests and friends, Mark Volman isn't specific but mentions sitting around a table with headphones listening, Seigel is very specific that Brian knew the acetates by the cuts of the grooves...the most specific description from 1967 matches this batch of acetates to a "T".

As far as why they didn't carry out reels of tape as journal dubs or whatever versus acetates, who knows. Even the fabled limousine ride to KHJ with the Heroes mix in July '67, it was described as Brian hand-carrying an acetate that night. Obviously Chuck was there, he knows what he did and didn't do, yet we can find more specific references to acetates as we can Brian threading up a reel-to-reel with his latest Smile work.

Yet it does seem too that there are some pieces of Smile which only survived on acetate, suggesting the tapes were wiped or taped over with a new part after the original part wasn't measuring up after listening at home. Or the various test mixes like Heroes, they were just attempts to hear a sequence that was fleeting at that exact time, and probably changed later that day or that week into something else, so that test edit tape might just be discarded or wiped.

Just pure speculation on a topic that has definitely been in my mind for some time!  Smiley Summing it up, I'd think if there were tapes from which the acetates were cut, they'd have been found and used (or at least heard) rather than cleaning up acetate sources as was done in a few cases.

« Last Edit: March 03, 2013, 03:29:31 PM by guitarfool2002 » Logged

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« Reply #159 on: March 03, 2013, 03:36:39 PM »

Amazing stuff, Andy! Thanks for sharing!

Also, yes, hopefully these end  up in good hands and are made available for all to hear someday.
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« Reply #160 on: March 03, 2013, 04:03:33 PM »

I'm confident the IIGS-H&V edits aren't well-circulated, judging by the reactions of the people I told, and I'd be somewhat surprised if that IIGS wasn't new. The weird thing is that it's so different from the other versions out there, so why hasn't it popped up anywhere before? If anything, it's only solidified my hope that more unheard stuff is out there. I'm assuming that members Vosse Posse might be in possession of some unique pieces but who knows. Now hopefully other stuff starts popping up.

I don't know how accurate it is, but I've always read that the final take of IIGS had been cut from the reel.  That could explain why it's never turned up anywhere.
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« Reply #161 on: March 03, 2013, 04:22:42 PM »

Has anybody put together an approximation edit of that description of the IIGS/H&V acetate yet that they can share?
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« Reply #162 on: March 03, 2013, 04:38:52 PM »

Has anybody put together an approximation edit of that description of the IIGS/H&V acetate yet that they can share?

Only in my head - music-wise though, just running through those sections what I'm "hearing" sounds really cool.  Depending on where IIGS cuts off, the Ab7 segues perfectly into the tonic C# of Heroes and "My Children Were Raised" specifically.

Great post about the tapes too guitarfool - I agree that a lot of priceless stuff was probably taped over, although the fact that new things are still being discovered this late in the game leads me to think (or hope, anyways) that there are still little tidbits like this to be discovered, whether through acetates, master tapes, whatever.  Whomever is still out there holding onto rare material, the day is going to come where they (or their kin) are going to want to cash in.  Given the sheer volume of material recorded during that time period, I think the probability is high that there are more acetates and tapes still in existence than anyone has heard.  Not a "Surf's Up" 2nd movement or anything, but things along the lines of test edits and alternate mixes.
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« Reply #163 on: March 03, 2013, 05:00:03 PM »

Hey, you know what i still listen to from time to time? Right As Rain! All 15 seconds of it, haa  Smiley

Ha! I still listen to your track as well!

DonnyL, it's a small world! I'd love to hear more stories if you have them.
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« Reply #164 on: March 03, 2013, 06:07:57 PM »

Hey, you know what i still listen to from time to time? Right As Rain! All 15 seconds of it, haa  Smiley

Ha! I still listen to your track as well!

DonnyL, it's a small world! I'd love to hear more stories if you have them.

Indeed it is ...

I recall her saying that Dennis and Carl were 'sweethearts' (she loved them), Al & Bruce were not around much and Mike was ... let's say not well-liked by Brian's circle of friends at the time.

She was present for a session for 'A Day in the Life of a Tree', and I asked her if that was a put-on ... she said absolutely not; it was a very very personal, special song for Brian.

Oh and she said it was hard to believe but Brian had never eaten salads before, and he really got into vegetables after she started making them salads ... which started the 'Vegetables' kick.

Danny Hutton stuck around to the difficult period, much later than anyone else. She had good things to say about him.

She gave me a copy of 'Discover America' (which she produced), and I still love that record !

I can't remember much else that I would be comfortable with posting here, but I remember I gave her a tape of my music, and she was very supportive ... that meant a lot to me.

Oh, and my guess based on my understanding of the situation is that her daughter and son-in-law would be the ones who orchestrated the sale. Durrie is a kind and trusting person, who maybe got ripped off in the past, and I think her daughter has sort of been making sure she doesn't get a raw deal with these kinds of things.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2013, 06:17:00 PM by DonnyL » Logged

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« Reply #165 on: March 03, 2013, 06:09:37 PM »

If anything, it's only solidified my hope that more unheard stuff is out there. I'm assuming that members Vosse Posse might be in possession of some unique pieces but who knows. Now hopefully other stuff starts popping up.

It seems that somebody's were lost in a flood/fire, lost with storage unit contents. Seems like someone's were stolen or lost. Still hope.
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« Reply #166 on: March 03, 2013, 08:23:25 PM »



Who are Bruce's heirs, if he has any?  LOL

The last thing at least one of them will need is an inheritance! !
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« Reply #167 on: March 04, 2013, 12:00:11 AM »

Once again this board proves that its totally rad. Anyone else think this thread should be pinned  at the top… must be one of the most fascinating and worthy subjects to arise since TSS itself or the reunion. Hoping this one will run and run…

Many deep and sincere thanks to all involved for their rivetting contributions.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2013, 12:02:20 AM by John Manning » Logged

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« Reply #168 on: March 04, 2013, 12:18:40 AM »

So any thoughts on when these acetates date from?

I was going to say late '66, but the "Time To Get Alone" track doesn't fit that timescale unless that was given to Van later. For the other songs though, October / November '66 would be my guess. Seeing as most of the H&V we have comes from post January '67, we could have some very exciting documents here from the most active period of Smile sessions.

Also, it mentions on the sale info, but I can't remember if Andy mentioned this, an alternate verse to Cabinessence. (I think by 20 /20 version they mean the version we all know, the only version) So this could be an actual alternate version of the verse track?Huh

I'm guessing the alternate version of Wind Chimes is the August '66 version.

Why do I feel these acetates are going to raise more questions than they answer?

Ah yes, because its Smile.
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« Reply #169 on: March 04, 2013, 12:39:41 AM »

Oh my god!! I need to hear these tracks.

I know this question must have been covered a bunch of times but does anyone know exactly when and why Brian gave the acetates away. Did he keep any for himself? Did capitol not what to keep possession of them?
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« Reply #170 on: March 04, 2013, 12:54:04 AM »

Oh my god!! I need to hear these tracks.

I know this question must have been covered a bunch of times but does anyone know exactly when and why Brian gave the acetates away. Did he keep any for himself? Did capitol not what to keep possession of them?

I should think they were given to Van as reference. Brian used them as dailies, in the film sense. Although tape was often used for dailies, acetate seems to have been Brian's preferred medium. There was probably a ton of them, and if this lot make money we may see more surface.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2013, 12:59:01 AM by (Stephen Newcombe) » Logged
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« Reply #171 on: March 04, 2013, 02:13:00 AM »

Oh my god!! I need to hear these tracks.

I know this question must have been covered a bunch of times but does anyone know exactly when and why Brian gave the acetates away. Did he keep any for himself? Did capitol not what to keep possession of them?

I should think they were given to Van as reference. Brian used them as dailies, in the film sense. Although tape was often used for dailies, acetate seems to have been Brian's preferred medium. There was probably a ton of them, and if this lot make money we may see more surface.

… and I suspect the seeming lack of perceived value among those who were there at the time stems from the fact that these were either rejected mixes or, if approved, retained in other mediums in far superior quality. Back in the days when I started my writing career, all my rejected draughts went in the bin… these days they'd be worth millions of course (as firelighters…)  Grin
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« Reply #172 on: March 04, 2013, 02:16:22 AM »

...Anyone else think this thread should be pinned  at the top… must be one of the most fascinating and worthy subjects to arise since TSS itself or the reunion. Hoping this one will run and run…

Many deep and sincere thanks to all involved for their rivetting contributions.

Hell, yeah +1!!!  What a great read.

Big thanks to Andy for the insights and background + Donny L for his cool story (and links)
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« Reply #173 on: March 04, 2013, 03:17:57 AM »

Also just noticed that all the old articles from my site are still up -- some interesting stuff that hasn't surfaced elsewhere if anyone is looking for some reading material:

http://troun.tripod.com/articles.html

Thank you, Donny. I've been enjoying it immensely over the last hour (even prompted me to bust out Adult Child for the first time in a while) and there is plenty I've either never read before or only seen quotes from. I too have an old Tripod site (last updated in 1998) that's still up there. Damn their pop-ups! But thanks again, good reading.

Back to the Durrie Parks acetates...
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« Reply #174 on: March 04, 2013, 05:37:54 AM »

Oh my god!! I need to hear these tracks.

I know this question must have been covered a bunch of times but does anyone know exactly when and why Brian gave the acetates away. Did he keep any for himself? Did capitol not what to keep possession of them?

I should think they were given to Van as reference. Brian used them as dailies, in the film sense. Although tape was often used for dailies, acetate seems to have been Brian's preferred medium. There was probably a ton of them, and if this lot make money we may see more surface.

Thanks!

I'm fascinated about Brian's attitude towards Smile after the whole thing collapsed.

It took others too make him re-record it and then to evetually release the sessions. Incredible he had no interest in the public hearing his greatest work. Such a humble guy.
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