Dennis Wilson vs Mike Love

[Surfer]

I do not really understand this.  When Dennis was a teenager he would ask Mike to go Surfin or fishing but in the late or early 70's they hated each other and why would Mike's Brother Stan beat up Dennis for?

[Letsgoawayforawhile]

Shield yourself from the mean comments to follow, Friend.

[Cabinessenceking]

Dennis: mike was 'square' and i'm awesome

Mike: denny's a bully and stealing my spotlight. he dead now. drag.

pretty much sums it up i think

[Alex]

I do not really understand this.  When Dennis was a teenager he would ask Mike to go Surfin or fishing but in the late or early 70's they hated each other and why would Mike's Brother Stan beat up Dennis for?

Read Gaines, Carlin, Stebbins, etc.

[Jason Penick]

How about we actually try to answer this young fan's question, yes? First of all Surfer, there are only two people on this board who can offer you big-picture firsthand insight, and that would be Dennis's best friend Ed Roach and Beach Boys Engineer Stephen W. Desper. Several Beach Boys authors can also be found here who have interviewed many of the leading characters in this drama. Based off of their research and others, I think it's safe to say that as Dennis and Michael were cousins, they started off with a relationship typical of male family members of similar age; they loved each other at the core but were also highly competitive with one another. As the years progressed, they grew in different directions. Micheal gravitated towards TM and healthy living, while Dennis sought refuge in drugs and alcohol. The primary bone of contention in later years seemed to be Dennis's increasing reliability to show up sober at concerts, coupled with his adverse effect on brother Brian when it came to providing him with certain substances. Likewise, Dennis seems to have disliked the artistic path the band was following in the late 70s-early 80s and actively tried to encourage Brian to "take back the reins" as it were; so you had a power struggle as well. Others can elaborate I'm sure, but I believe that is the crux of the issue.

[Cam Mott]

I'll bet it is greatly exaggerated in our minds. I imagine they were very cousiny early and then Dennis' excesses/addictions and Mikes excesses/TMiness complicated things and was wedge between them. I doubt they ever really lost their cousin love for each other. I could be wrong.

[Mikie]

Read Gaines, Carlin, Stebbins, etc.

Exactly.

And I think Jason pretty much nailed it. And in addition to power struggle, I would add jealousy. Mike could never write like that.

[halblaineisgood]

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[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Read Gaines, Carlin, Stebbins, etc.

Exactly.

And I think Jason pretty much nailed it. And in addition to power struggle, I would add jealousy. Mike could never write like that.

Let's not forget Dennis was noted in a list of grievances for one of Mike's divorce filings..... Wouldn't be such an easy thing to shrug off, I'd imagine....

[Mikie]

No. And if my cousin messed with my wife and/or girlfriend I'd be real pissed to say the least.

And Shawn Marie Love..................back atcha Mike!!

[I. Spaceman]

Am I supposed to hate every single person in the book?  

They're all heroes and villains.

[Awesoman]

Read Gaines

I read the paperback one many years ago. I was pretty naive about discography back then. I was also unaware of the politics, the precise chronology of Marks/Jardine, all of those tracks incorrectly attributed to the Wrecking Crew etc. I guess the ridiculous errors in this book(half-truths, gossip, laziness I don't know what to call the stuff) would not have been easy to spot back then. I picked it up again from the library recently, and it's the one with the gray cover.
 I'm about 3/4 of the way through, and every page has upset me. Am I supposed to hate every single person in the book? The Beach Boys (also their Family & Friends) are the most obnoxious people in the history of the world.
Everyone in this book is a f***ing prick. I guess I was gonna say...the OP being a newbie, maybe he shouldn't read it . But, clearly it's upsetting only to the intermediate level fan. I'm not smart enough to correct and clarify these things on the spot, but not new enough to the story to just enjoy the book and not let all the questionable info ruin it for me.

BTW, What other Beach Boys book mentions Dennis "not caring much for the blacks" . I think that remark  warranted an explanation. Such a provocative thing to say as if it were irrelevant. No, it WAS irrelevant..Yeah, white folks mid century...you could generalize and say they didn't care much about blacks....but to say someone "didn't care much for blacks" casually as an aside, that's like a weird thing an old person with dementia would say.

I thought the validity of the content within that book has been largely embellished. 

[Mikie]

I think some of the stuff in the Gaines book is true and has been confirmed by others since the book came out.  Would like to hear Jon's take on the Gaines book, though, as far as the stories about Dennis go. Haven't read it in years.

Is that the book where Dennis told someone he was raped by a black guy? 

[Chocolate Shake Man]

And in addition to power struggle, I would add jealousy. Mike could never write like that.

I'm not sure Mike was aware of how good a songwriter Dennis was and that probably added to the tension.

[I. Spaceman]

Mike is the Beach Boy who gave Dennis's music the strongest praise in a public context. I've heard several comments by Mike on the excellence of Dennis's songs. One show, he calls I've Got A Friend "the best song I have ever heard".
If Mike was at all jealous of Dennis, Dennis would also be jealous of Mike as an outgoing frontman. Dennis was never able to do that, to really put himself and his music forward.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

I think some of the stuff in the Gaines book is true and has been confirmed by others since the book came out.  Would like to hear Jon's take on the Gaines book, though, as far as the stories about Dennis go. Haven't read it in years.

Is that the book where Dennis told someone he was raped by a black guy? 

I think he said he was raped several times by black guys. One time on his boat by a handyman, another time at home by a plumber, etc etc. I could be remembering it wrong, but it was something along those lines.

[Surfer]

Mike Love also co wrote with Dennis on Pacific Ocean Blue the main song of Pacific Ocean Blue. So tell me this why would Mike Love ask his Brother Stan to beat the crap out of Dennis and Stan had help beating up Dennis. Do you guys remember Rocky Pamplin he also beat up Dennis with Stan Love's help

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Mike Love also co wrote with Dennis on Pacific Ocean Blue the main song of Pacific Ocean Blue. So tell me this why would Mike Love ask his Brother Stan to beat the crap out of Dennis and Stan had help beating up Dennis. Do you guys remember Rocky Pamplin he also beat up Dennis with Stan Love's help

I don't think Mike had anything to do with that incident. Stan and Rocky Pamplin were at a Superbowl party getting drunk and arrived a the conclusion that someone had better put Dennis in his place....

[halblaineisgood]

.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Am I supposed to hate every single person in the book?  

They're all heroes and villains.

They're all Villains. The title of the book should have been Villains.

Beirdos & Villians

[Mikie]

Mike is the Beach Boy who gave Dennis's music the strongest praise in a public context. I've heard several comments by Mike on the excellence of Dennis's songs. One show, he calls I've Got A Friend "the best song I have ever heard".

That was May, 1972. They were still on pretty good terms then.

Fast forward to the Pacific Ocean Blue album, 1977.  Dennis asked Mike to help with the lyrics to one song. After the album was released, did you ever hear or read Mike praise Dennis' album?

In 1980, Mike Love called Dennis “a drugged-out no-talent parasite who we’ve sacked”.

[I. Spaceman]

I think Mike felt Dennis should have helped the band out rather than make the solo record. Understandable in a way, since the group were laboring to pound out the MIU turd.
Mike had his moments of being pissed at Dennis and saying bad things about him, but he never wrote a How Do You Sleep aimed at him, let's put it that way.

[Sound of Free]

I think it was a complicated relationship that didn't get really bad until the late 70s when Dennis' addictions really took over. The Timothy White book described a friendly conversation between Dennis, Mike and Stan during the 15 Big Ones sessions, and has been alluded to, Dennis asked Mike to write lyrics to Pacific Ocean Blues.

But a shot time later, the band was split up into the "meditators" and the "free-livers" and Dennis made his anti-Mike comments on MIU.

[Jay]

I live Dennis, I really do. But you have to admit, he became a pretty big jerk to deal with. Yes, Dennis was a "prisoner" to his addictions, but they altered his personality and caused erratic behavior. His drinking and drug use became out of control to the point where he began to show up to public performances drunk, which limited his ability to peform to his best potential. Which became a liability to the group, not only as a perfessional band, but also to their reputation. On a recording I have of a 1978 concert, the audience can be heard complaining about Dennis being so drunk. I wonder if any fans left the show? At least Carl publicly apologised for similar behavor. Dennis crossed a line in 1979, when the band tensions became a public spectacle in front of the audience. At least he could have tried to excuse his behavor for being drunk. Shouting out "I love Shawn" during a televised show(Long Beach 1981) was a deliberate attack on Mike for the fun of it. Not cool at all*. I don't mean to come off as being hateful to Dennis. I just wanted to point out a few reasons Mike had for getting pissed off. Dennis at times was his own best enemy. Yes, you read that right.

*Even if it was the highlight of the show. lol 

[adamghost]

Mike is the Beach Boy who gave Dennis's music the strongest praise in a public context. I've heard several comments by Mike on the excellence of Dennis's songs. One show, he calls I've Got A Friend "the best song I have ever heard".

That was May, 1972. They were still on pretty good terms then.

Fast forward to the Pacific Ocean Blue album, 1977.  Dennis asked Mike to help with the lyrics to one song. After the album was released, did you ever hear or read Mike praise Dennis' album?

In 1980, Mike Love called Dennis “a drugged-out no-talent parasite who we’ve sacked”.

I'm not an ML apologist but this is not cool...that's a (NME writer) Nick Kent quote, VERY broadly paraphrasing his impression of what Mike's spin on Dennis' absence was at the time.  To put those words directly in Mike's mouth is totally wrong.  Kent was clearly putting his own cynical spin on events.