Dennis Wilson vs Mike Love

[AndrewHickey]

That's not because the band didn't care but because they didn't know what to do.

That's the most likely explanation.

Not only the most likely explanation, but the most charitable one. None of us actually know what the various people involved were thinking, and I think it's pretty unpleasant to go around ascribing the worst possible motives to them.

Of course, if the band *were* only concerned about Brian as a moneymaker, and not as a person, then that backfired somewhat, didn't it, since they spent the next thirty years paying him money without him having to turn up to shows, and with him being completely unproductive as a writer for the band. From a purely financial perspective, they'd have been better off if Brian had died. So if that *was* their only motive, they've been punished for it. But I sincerely doubt it was.

[Cam Mott]

It's probably one of those fan stories that don't hold water in reality. I don't know what corporate policy was before 1993 but Dennis probably got paid just as Brian did or any of the principles of BRI did for touring or not. They might have even had the same medical/psych insurance etc.. Don't know, I'm just saying they were equal partners in the same corporation.

[Moon Dawg]

 Apologies if this was noted earlier, but wasn't there more or less a "stud competition" between Mike and Dennis on the road? All the guys liked girls but Dennis and Mike were horndogs. There may have been an ongoing rivalry in that regard. Juvenile to be sure, but these were young men on top of the world.

[clack]

Apologies if this was noted earlier, but wasn't there more or less a "stud competition" between Mike and Dennis on the road? All the guys liked girls but Dennis and Mike were horndogs. There may have been an ongoing rivalry in that regard. Juvenile to be sure, but these were young men on top of the world.

I remember reading that competition with Brian Ferry over girls is what led to Brian Eno leaving Roxy Music. Similar thing happened with Steely Dan -- Fagen and Becker, the songwriters, grew pissed with the other members of the band for pulling more girls than they did, so they ditched the band in favor of a rotating cast of studio pros.

This according to Eno, and Fagen and Becker. Can't believe it's the only reasons for their respective band estrangements, though.

[hypehat]

Apologies if this was noted earlier, but wasn't there more or less a "stud competition" between Mike and Dennis on the road? All the guys liked girls but Dennis and Mike were horndogs. There may have been an ongoing rivalry in that regard. Juvenile to be sure, but these were young men on top of the world.

I remember reading that competition with Brian Ferry over girls is what led to Brian Eno leaving Roxy Music. Similar thing happened with Steely Dan -- Fagen and Becker, the songwriters, grew pissed with the other members of the band for pulling more girls than they did, so they ditched the band in favor of a rotating cast of studio pros.

This according to Eno, and Fagen and Becker. Can't believe it's the only reasons for their respective band estrangements, though.

Just think, the invention of Ambient music was down to Brian Eno not getting enough p*ssy.

[hypehat]

It's probably one of those fan stories that don't hold water in reality. I don't know what corporate policy was before 1993 but Dennis probably got paid just as Brian did or any of the principles of BRI did for touring or not. They might have even had the same medical/psych insurance etc.. Don't know, I'm just saying they were equal partners in the same corporation.

Wasn't Dennis getting pretty strapped for cash towards the end? He had to sell The Harmony cos he couldn't keep up the payments, as I recall, granted that there's a bit pretty big gap between a comfortable lifestyle and paying off a yacht.

[Cam Mott]

It's probably one of those fan stories that don't hold water in reality. I don't know what corporate policy was before 1993 but Dennis probably got paid just as Brian did or any of the principles of BRI did for touring or not. They might have even had the same medical/psych insurance etc.. Don't know, I'm just saying they were equal partners in the same corporation.

Wasn't Dennis getting pretty strapped for cash towards the end? He had to sell The Harmony cos he couldn't keep up the payments, as I recall, granted that there's a bit pretty big gap between a comfortable lifestyle and paying off a yacht.

I don't know how Denny was at money management or borrowing.

[Mike's Beard]

Didn't Dennis sell his shares to the group to cover existing debts? Andrew or Jon?

[hypehat]

It's probably one of those fan stories that don't hold water in reality. I don't know what corporate policy was before 1993 but Dennis probably got paid just as Brian did or any of the principles of BRI did for touring or not. They might have even had the same medical/psych insurance etc.. Don't know, I'm just saying they were equal partners in the same corporation.

Wasn't Dennis getting pretty strapped for cash towards the end? He had to sell The Harmony cos he couldn't keep up the payments, as I recall, granted that there's a bit pretty big gap between a comfortable lifestyle and paying off a yacht.

I don't know how Denny was at money management or borrowing.

Me neither, just throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks, tbh.

[Cam Mott]

Didn't Dennis sell his shares to the group to cover existing debts? Andrew or Jon?

Or did they assume his shares in lieu of debt after his death?

[AndrewHickey]

Didn't Dennis sell his shares to the group to cover existing debts? Andrew or Jon?

Or did they assume his shares in lieu of debt after his death?

That's what I've always read -- that they paid off all his estate's debts in return for his share of Brother.

[MBE]

Dennis was in bad shape by 1978 and even went to rehab that year. He recovered for a short time, but by the summer of 1979 it was all downhill. Brian had different problems, and more importantly he fought them. Dennis had severe self esteem issues that got in the way of his fighting his way out. Mike and Dennis both did some awful things to each other, but they were able to coexist fairly well until Dennis' performances began to suffer. Then Mike did have a gripe professionally and I can't blame him. Even as late as 1976 they did things like joint interviews that would have been outrageous to suggest by 1979. I love Dennis, think he was a great artist, and probably a lot more caring than Mike in general, but I wouldn't have wanted to work with him his last six years myself. When you have Carli, and Hanlon getting fed up, you know it was more than Mike being jealous. Of course it could be said that if Mike hadn't given Dennis an ultimatum about performing solo maybe Dennis wouldn't have been so difficult later, at least directly. I guess I see both sides of it.

[The Shift]

From a family perspective, suspect Brian was seen as the fragile, sensitive, shy, delicate flower while Dennis was the gregarious, confident, naughty one. While Brian had his problems in the public eye, Dennis never lost the tough guy persona. And I suspect that while the other members of the band realised Brian had a problem, in other ways they were too close to Dennis and figured he was strong enough to get over his own problems. By he time family realised what friends already knew, it was too late.