The Beach Boys + Wikipedia = Wrinkles

[bluesno1fann]

Curse you, Love Surrounds Me, for I was going to write those tvtropes pages.

Your Dennis loving ways have been noted, and I shall have to work hard to undo the damage you have caused.

Well, well, well... we meet again, SIP Mike!

It should be worth mentioning that I only touched up those pages, and somebody else had originally wrote them.

[bluesno1fann]

Okay, who the f*** is this clown and why is he trashing Denny's work on the Beach Boys pages of TV Tropes?

Not funny at all...

[alf wiedersehen]

Those TV Tropes articles are garbage - they're filled with Mike bashing and Dennis gushing.

[Niko]

The TV Tropes motto: "We don't really like citations..."

[Niko]

Okay, who the f*** is this clown and why is he trashing Denny's work on the Beach Boys pages of TV Tropes?

Not funny at all...

Terry Tathbert...? That sounds like a name you made up.

[bluesno1fann]

Okay, who the f*** is this clown and why is he trashing Denny's work on the Beach Boys pages of TV Tropes?

Not funny at all...

Terry Tathbert...? That sounds like a name you made up.

Interesting... what makes you think that?

He was the guy who was spamming and changing the Beach Boys pages on TV Tropes. I have since changed it back, though I'm keeping a close eye on it.

[Niko]

What an awful page for the BBs  . It's like Wikipedia but with a ton of ego, bias and misinformation blended in.

[bluesno1fann]

What an awful page for the BBs  . It's like Wikipedia but with a ton of ego, bias and misinformation blended in.

Believe it or not, it was a hell of a lot worse when Terry changed it.
And if you don't like it, change it if you wish

[feelsflow]

Sorry for bringing this back to the top, but I told Rei I'd say something.

It would be best to keep a close eye on the link as it has been changed several times since yesterday.  Maybe, as you say, this is a popular site for kids playing on their i-phones, but it is not going to be of interest to many on this board.  The Denny boast was changed to "best solo album by a member of the band," now it's back to "as amazing as anything Brian ever did."  really?  Let's set aside all the great Beach Boys albums, and focus on something Brian was working on around the time Denny did POB.  Adult/Child, even in the state it is in, is better.  period, if you haven't read my signature, I'll say here.  In My Opinion.  I also like either of Carl's solo albums better.  Carl's albums bring me much joy.  POB is not as good as Sunflower, Surf's Up, Carl and the Passions-"So Tough", Holland, 15 Big ones, Love You, and LA (Light Album).  Of all The 70's albums it's only better than M.I.U. - and some folks around here might disagree with that.  I see no jumping of sharks, or Mike taking control of the band in 1976 or any other year until the late 80's.  Those old 60's Hits were part of the rest of the members history too, Mike wasn't forcing them to play 'em or your outta the band.  He may have reasoned with them though.  Endless Summer has some deep cuts, and all of them are great songs.  He wasn't the tour boss, Carl looked like the one leading the band at all the shows I went to.  If Carl wasn't there, they struggled.  Even I have a problem with the work they did from 1989 on.  But I don't talk about it much.  Why should I beat the tired horse?  While plenty of others do, I have nothing to add to those posts.  I think only in the current Survivor Game, and that's what that is - a game.  I don't need to list the 60's albums, but maybe you could list the ones you think fail to live up to what Denny did on POB.

If you think this article won't get a reaction, you are wrong.  By linking and modifying the page, you are ENDORSING what it says.

The article DOES read like a gossip column, under the title of Music: The Beach Boys.  What does their personal lives have to do with their music?  I don't read too much about that on Smiley either, unless someone comes in spamming a Thread I'm reading, like the Survivor Threads, that's full of hate.  I've already addressed that in those Threads.  I Love 95% of everything they ever did.  Some reduce that to a Greatest Hits set.  Some just treat this place as a blog/chat room.  I don't.  I'm here to read and learn about the love.

.

One more thing before I close out the only post I'll make on this.  That crap about The Beatles is very misleading.  Just one of the reasons I don't hang-out or read Beatles sites.  Beyond the fact I never learned anything I didn't already know.

Many people consider the recording sessions that produced "My Bonnie" the Beatles first 45.  That came out in Germany 23 October 1961, credited to Tony Sheridan and the Beat Brothers.  It was recorded on 22 June 1961.  It was released in the UK on 5 January 1962, credited to T. S. and The Beatles.  There's other tracks from those sessions that are just by the four Beatles.  Like Brian, John and Paul had been writing songs since the late 50's.  They were all doing demos and pressing them up if they could.  The Decca audition tapes recorded 1 January 1962 are very, very good.  Give them a listen if you get a chance.  The article tries to make a "Oh, Wow" statement out of something of little matter.

Enjoy your vacation Rei, and come back with something a bit more fresh.  Be proud of what you link yourself to.  You can't just say, "Oh, I didn't write that part."  Or, "I'm changing it as fast as I can."  Some things are out of our control, that site seems to be one of them.  No hard feelings on my part.  Sometimes I just feel The Beach Boys need to be defended around here.  Okay?     peace, Will

[Dudd]

Some of these Dennis changes strike me as a bit petty...

Original: "Signature Song: "Good Vibrations". "God Only Knows" is such a signature song for Carl Wilson that on their 2012 reunion tour, the Boys performed the song using a large video projector with old footage of Carl singing the lead vocals."

Edit: "Signature Song: "Good Vibrations". "Forever" is such a signature song for Dennis Wilson that on their 2012 reunion tour, the Boys performed the song using a large video projector with old footage of Dennis singing the lead vocals. The same thing happened for Carl and God Only Knows during that same tour."

It's not a biggie or anything, but... why?

[alf wiedersehen]

To make my peace, there are things I would like to say about this TV Tropes page.

First of all, there has been some recent edits by [insert your best guess here] which I find incredibly annoying and/or entirely [insert gender] own opinion.
Let's focus on the Dennis-centric editing, shall we:

On the band's history page:

First edit:

During this time, Brian remained holed up in his room, Dennis Wilson became friends with Charles Manson, and the Wilson brothers' domineering father Murry Wilson sold their entire song catalog for a paltry sum of $750,000 (a catalog which is estimated to be worth at least $75 million today).

to

During this time, Brian receded into the background, while the rest of the band starting to write the bulk of their material, especially Dennis in particular who also temporarily befriended Charles Manson, and the Wilson brothers' domineering father Murry Wilson sold their entire song catalog for a paltry sum of $750,000 (a catalog which is estimated to be worth at least $75 million today).

First of all, no. Dennis didn't especially particularly fill Brian's role. That whole idea that Brian "faded into the background" is a complete myth - it's only true in comparison to his past, workhorse-like self. In reality, Brian contributed 75 (considering all songwriting credits, which undoubtedly is a bit inaccurate) songs in the time that Dennis was still alive and with the band. You know how many Dennis contributed in this time? 17. Carl contributed 22, Al contributed 21 (Al contributed more than Dennis!), and Mike contributed 40. The only person that Dennis contributed more than is Bruce, and he only put in 5.
Secondly, not only is that sentence and sentiment incorrect, the grammatical structure is terrible - redundant words and run-on sentences abound.


Second edit:
Now, this edit contribution is a bit hazy, so, I can't say for sure who actually put this in, but I'll go with my suspicion.

They each created very memorable, beautiful music, with Dennis Wilson even writing his own solo album, Pacific Ocean Blue, which is now regarded as being just as amazing as anything Brian ever did.

This edit starts off perfectly fine and democratic, then dissolves into bull-fuckery. Really? Who regards it as being "just as amazing as anything Brian ever did"? Perhaps you do, but back here in reality, I would imagine most people don't think that Dennis ever matched the likes of "Good Vibrations," or "Don't Worry Baby," or "Surf's Up," or "God Only Knows," or...  And why is that comparison necessary? God forbid it should stand on its own as a piece of art - No! You always blame and harangue people for comparing them to each other, but here you are, doing it yourself. I suppose it's only acceptable when it's in Dennis' favor, hm?




On the band's "Awesome Music" page:

First edit:

This is the album where Dennis really shines the most. "Slip On Through" is often considered to be the greatest album opener the Beach Boys did, "It's About Time" (Sung by Carl) is a well-made memorable rocker, "Got To Know The Woman" is fun but weak, and "Forever" has gone on to becoming Dennis's signature song.

For realz? "Often considered to be the greatest album opener the Beach Boys did"? Perhaps by you, but I think most people would consider, perhaps, hmm, I dunno, "WOULDN'T IT BE NICE" as the greatest album opener. Oh, darn! The only thing that this song is missing from truly making it great is Dennis' name in the songwriting credits. If you're going to say "often considered," you should really base it off more than two people's opinions. In fact, an excellent resource would be this website. You should try using it. Which brings me to my next point...

Second edit:

"Love Surrounds Me" and "Baby Blue" are generally regarded to be the main highlights off this album, and would be the last songs Dennis contributes to the Beach Boys. Both are lost classics, with the latter in particular praised for the shared vocals with Carl and Dennis. Dennis also sings on the Carl composition "Angel Come Home".

Once again, who considers those two to be the highlights? People definitely consider "Baby Blue" to be a highlight, but it's not popular opinion that considers "Love Surrounds Me" to be one of the two greatest songs on L.A., it's just your opinion. Secondly, that's not even true. The song you seemed to have missed - which most people actually regard as being the best song on L.A. - is "Good Timin'." No mention of that one...




In closing:

An excellent post by Judd.
What a petty edit! Rather than adding on Dennis' in addition to the post, you edited out Carl's name and relegated him to be the addition. What is the point of that? Why go so far to add Dennis first, to change what it originally said? It's not as if it matters if Dennis is mentioned before. You always want people to respect Dennis, well how about respecting Carl?


Those articles are bunk, and I haven't even gone over the other, non-Dennis related edits. They are essentially worthless as long as they're that opinionated. If someone cares enough to edit it, please do. I edited those articles down to be very fair and democratic to all members, and I was swiftly banned from future editing after doing so.

[Niko]

I'll do my best to track down the culprit responsible 

I think it was Jamarques Mahoganny, back to his old ways of evil and deceit.

[Please delete my account]

I like TV Tropes as a site for identifying, comparing and naming narrative tropes in books, film and TV, but I don't see why it should have pages on musicians. It seems redundant and outside its remit. I can see why there might be a section on the Beach Boys biopics, or on their lyrics maybe, but not the band itself or their music.

[bluesno1fann]

Thanks for the constructive criticism guys, and appreciate some of the work done to the pages!

Gotta say, I agree that it needs to be more fair between all members!

[Niko]

It's probably best to ignore the site altogether. Any bias control you care to apply can be changed to wim of someone who just wants to the world to know that Al Jardine was really the best member of the band. And the greatest!

"Easily the shining moment of 1965 was 'Then I Kissed Her'. Al made their album the best with his background singing as well."
"Al Jardine brought the band to new heights with Susie Cincinnati, his long languishing masterpiece finally was able to change the world, overshadowing Brian on every level.
"Postcard From California was easily as good as anything Brian ever did, helped by the thematic beauty found within the walls on the record. You can feel the sun and the ocean with every syllable uttered by Al."

[halblaineisgood]

.

[job]

 But "Love Surrounds Me" IS the greatest song on L.A.

[RangeRoverA1]

It's probably best to ignore the site altogether. Any bias control you care to apply can be changed to wim of someone who just wants to the world to know that Al Jardine was really the best member of the band. And the greatest!

"Easily the shining moment of 1965 was 'Then I Kissed Her'. Al made their album the best with his background singing as well."
"Al Jardine brought the band to new heights with Susie Cincinnati, his long languishing masterpiece finally was able to change the world, overshadowing Brian on every level.
"Postcard From California was easily as good as anything Brian ever did, helped by the thematic beauty found within the walls on the record. You can feel the sun and the ocean with every syllable uttered by Al."

If you reference what's written in that site - so many links I didn't check all - then I must reassure you that it's not me. Al is my favorite BB, sure, but I would never write such an absurd. Even if I think Then I Kissed Her is miles ahead of the boring Crystals version.

[Niko]

If al is your fav, than I respect you 

[halblaineisgood]

.

[SMiLE Brian]

*hal pitches a fit in his house*

[halblaineisgood]

.

[halblaineisgood]

.

[SMiLE Brian]

Any fan of spector should be doing the same.

[bluesno1fann]

To make my peace, there are things I would like to say about this TV Tropes page.

First of all, there has been some recent edits by [insert your best guess here] which I find incredibly annoying and/or entirely [insert gender] own opinion.
Let's focus on the Dennis-centric editing, shall we:

On the band's history page:

First edit:

During this time, Brian remained holed up in his room, Dennis Wilson became friends with Charles Manson, and the Wilson brothers' domineering father Murry Wilson sold their entire song catalog for a paltry sum of $750,000 (a catalog which is estimated to be worth at least $75 million today).

to

During this time, Brian receded into the background, while the rest of the band starting to write the bulk of their material, especially Dennis in particular who also temporarily befriended Charles Manson, and the Wilson brothers' domineering father Murry Wilson sold their entire song catalog for a paltry sum of $750,000 (a catalog which is estimated to be worth at least $75 million today).

First of all, no. Dennis didn't especially particularly fill Brian's role. That whole idea that Brian "faded into the background" is a complete myth - it's only true in comparison to his past, workhorse-like self. In reality, Brian contributed 75 (considering all songwriting credits, which undoubtedly is a bit inaccurate) songs in the time that Dennis was still alive and with the band. You know how many Dennis contributed in this time? 17. Carl contributed 22, Al contributed 21 (Al contributed more than Dennis!), and Mike contributed 40. The only person that Dennis contributed more than is Bruce, and he only put in 5.
Secondly, not only is that sentence and sentiment incorrect, the grammatical structure is terrible - redundant words and run-on sentences abound.


Second edit:
Now, this edit contribution is a bit hazy, so, I can't say for sure who actually put this in, but I'll go with my suspicion.

They each created very memorable, beautiful music, with Dennis Wilson even writing his own solo album, Pacific Ocean Blue, which is now regarded as being just as amazing as anything Brian ever did.

This edit starts off perfectly fine and democratic, then dissolves into bull-fuckery. Really? Who regards it as being "just as amazing as anything Brian ever did"? Perhaps you do, but back here in reality, I would imagine most people don't think that Dennis ever matched the likes of "Good Vibrations," or "Don't Worry Baby," or "Surf's Up," or "God Only Knows," or...  And why is that comparison necessary? God forbid it should stand on its own as a piece of art - No! You always blame and harangue people for comparing them to each other, but here you are, doing it yourself. I suppose it's only acceptable when it's in Dennis' favor, hm?




On the band's "Awesome Music" page:

First edit:

This is the album where Dennis really shines the most. "Slip On Through" is often considered to be the greatest album opener the Beach Boys did, "It's About Time" (Sung by Carl) is a well-made memorable rocker, "Got To Know The Woman" is fun but weak, and "Forever" has gone on to becoming Dennis's signature song.

For realz? "Often considered to be the greatest album opener the Beach Boys did"? Perhaps by you, but I think most people would consider, perhaps, hmm, I dunno, "WOULDN'T IT BE NICE" as the greatest album opener. Oh, darn! The only thing that this song is missing from truly making it great is Dennis' name in the songwriting credits. If you're going to say "often considered," you should really base it off more than two people's opinions. In fact, an excellent resource would be this website. You should try using it. Which brings me to my next point...

Second edit:

"Love Surrounds Me" and "Baby Blue" are generally regarded to be the main highlights off this album, and would be the last songs Dennis contributes to the Beach Boys. Both are lost classics, with the latter in particular praised for the shared vocals with Carl and Dennis. Dennis also sings on the Carl composition "Angel Come Home".

Once again, who considers those two to be the highlights? People definitely consider "Baby Blue" to be a highlight, but it's not popular opinion that considers "Love Surrounds Me" to be one of the two greatest songs on L.A., it's just your opinion. Secondly, that's not even true. The song you seemed to have missed - which most people actually regard as being the best song on L.A. - is "Good Timin'." No mention of that one...




In closing:

An excellent post by Judd.
What a petty edit! Rather than adding on Dennis' in addition to the post, you edited out Carl's name and relegated him to be the addition. What is the point of that? Why go so far to add Dennis first, to change what it originally said? It's not as if it matters if Dennis is mentioned before. You always want people to respect Dennis, well how about respecting Carl?


Those articles are bunk, and I haven't even gone over the other, non-Dennis related edits. They are essentially worthless as long as they're that opinionated. If someone cares enough to edit it, please do. I edited those articles down to be very fair and democratic to all members, and I was swiftly banned from future editing after doing so.

I think you will be quite satisfied by my latest edits which have restored some of yours and fixed up a few others 

(And yes, I am fully aware that anyone can change it anytime to something stupid. That is a risk I am willing to take)