The hipness image of the Beach Boys

[Zach95]

I'm disappointed in you guys hating on Animal Collective. They're honestly very good (one of the few modern bands that I really like) and I think Avey Tare is one of the greatest songwriters on earth right now (Gustav Ejstes in Dungen being number 1).
You should try to listen to them without thinking they're pretentious hipsters trying to sound cool, because they're not. They're just trying to write honest music, and you can definitely hear that, especially with Avey's songs. Some of his best songs have that Brian mid-60s feel where it seems like the melody just popped out from his heart and you're like "why hasn't anyone written this perfect melody before?".
I don't know, it's hard to explain, but I think it's kinda easy to tell which songwriters truthfully write melodies from their heart and soul and don't TRY to sound like something cool, or something they like. I think it's a hard thing to do and only some very gifted songwriters are able to.
Animal Collective have a way of confusing people to think that they're pretentious douchebags, but if you truly get into their music you find that it's the absolute opposite.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvIryVxmyy0 - This is one of my favorites. Listen twice or more to find the song underneath the mess. The melodies are incredible.

This. Animal Collective ain't pretentious, folks. Noah Lenox is just an awkward guy, as is pretty much the group. They've never tried to be "hip", at the beginning of their career they did all this weird chant stuff. Before anybody cared or noticed. Of course, theyve grown to be much more melodic, but the point being they're not trying to be a band they're not. Avery Tare is a brilliant songwriting, and to simply dismiss their music as junk is lazy. They're a talented group of experimental musicians with slight pop sensibilities that resemble the Beach Boys.

[Summer_Days]

I wonder if much of why we love the Beach Boys...is deeply rooted in the band being so square and un-hip in the first place.
This explains my love for The Beach Boys Love You.

[DonnyL]

I just listened to the link of Kelley Stoltz that was posted above somewhere, and damn if I didn't absolutely LOVE it from the first listen. So many artists try to achieve that sound influenced by the Beach Boys and Beatles, and so few pull it off, and this guy just nailed it. From the garage sounding, 60s-tuned snare to those vocal harmonies, and some Beatles guitar and grit - stunning. Must buy everything he has released!

Glad to spread the word! Please buy as much of his stuff as you guys can, and send an email to Sub Pop telling them how much you think he's a genius and can't wait for another album ...

I liked it a lot too! Cool song!

alright, i don't wanna derail the thread, but since you guys seem to like Kelley's stuff so much, check out another great local band here, Sonny and the Sunsets (I can't get enough of this song, and you can see some cool footage of the San Francisco Mission district):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbctzd9kW1A

[runnersdialzero]

I post this only as a defense and not as a means to be negative or tell people I think their opinion is wrong:

I call it junk because I greatly dislike everything about it and can't really even appreciate most of it (not all of it) as art even outside my own dislike for it. I don't think that's lazy. I like many an awkward artist (we are on a Beach Boys forum) and probably many a pretentious artist (it comes with the territory, often), this guy's approach and style as a musician, producer, singer - everything, just grate me beyond words. I know he's not trying to be hip or something he's not and it doesn't surprise me that they've been over the top pretentious even pre-fame. I don't doubt they have technical ability as musicians. The only similarities I've heard in their work to the Beach Boys is the occasional "Hey, this guy is trying to sing like Brian did in the 60s and isn't doing a very good job."

I didn't initially approach their music with "Bunch of pretentious assholes, this is gonna be horrible" because I didn't know anything about them. Truly, they're one of those bands that each time I'm sent in the direction of a new song, I think "Maybe this will be the one where I finally get why all my friends go on about them." I want to like what my friends like and relate to them because I don't relate to them on much anymore, but when I listen and give it another chance, it's only been further affirmation that they're just not for me at all. I should stress that, I guess - they're not for me, but if they do something for you, then that's honestly cool and I'm not gonna take issue with art affecting someone in a positive way.

No moar negativity on my part after this - I don't want to go there and I don't want to take anyone else with me.

[DonnyL]

I post this only as a defense and not as a means to be negative or tell people I think their opinion is wrong:

I call it junk because I greatly dislike everything about it and can't really even appreciate most of it (not all of it) as art even outside my own dislike for it. I don't think that's lazy. I like many an awkward artist (we are on a Beach Boys forum) and probably many a pretentious artist (it comes with the territory, often), this guy's approach and style as a musician, producer, singer - everything, just grate me beyond words. I know he's not trying to be hip or something he's not and it doesn't surprise me that they've been over the top pretentious even pre-fame. I don't doubt they have technical ability as musicians. The only similarities I've heard in their work to the Beach Boys is the occasional "Hey, this guy is trying to sing like Brian did in the 60s and isn't doing a very good job."

I didn't initially approach their music with "Bunch of pretentious assholes, this is gonna be horrible" because I didn't know anything about them. Truly, they're one of those bands that each time I'm sent in the direction of a new song, I think "Maybe this will be the one where I finally get why all my friends go on about them." I want to like what my friends like and relate to them because I don't relate to them on much anymore, but when I listen and give it another chance, it's only been further affirmation that they're just not for me at all. I should stress that, I guess - they're not for me, but if they do something for you, then that's honestly cool and I'm not gonna take issue with art affecting someone in a positive way.

No moar negativity on my part after this - I don't want to go there and I don't want to take anyone else with me.

Animal Collective?

yeh, sorry to any of their fans for calling it junk, it's fine music or whatever ... just doesn't do anything for me. sounds kind of digital or something.

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

Yeah, I was kind of jerky about it, but honestly, I don't know anything about Animal Collective or their various members who do solo stuff.  In fact, I couldn't name any of them other than Panda Bear.  I don't really know what they look like, I've never read any interview or anything.  The point is, I don't think they're pretentious, because I know nothing of them other than the music, which I happen to hate.  Taste is taste.

I liked the Beach Boys just as much when I thought they were not really cool to like just as much as I do now that I think they are pretty cool to like.  I try to make my musical judgements purely musical.

[Amy B.]

Sorry if this was posted elsewhere in the thread (I didn't see it), but this interview with Kelley Stoltz has a cool story about Brian.

http://www.seattleweekly.com/content/printVersion/167142/

[Magic Transistor Radio]

Sorry if this was posted elsewhere in the thread (I didn't see it), but this interview with Kelley Stoltz has a cool story about Brian.

http://www.seattleweekly.com/content/printVersion/167142/

Very cool story! How many rock stars would actually give a sh** and call back at all!

[Magic Transistor Radio]

In the 60s, I think the coolest band was the Velvet Underground. Not saying the best. Some recent bands/musicians I like are the Fleet Foxes, Beach House, Edward Sharpe and the Magnetic Zeros, MWard and Admiral Radley.

You should check out Good Old War if you haven't. Beautiful three part harmonies.

I just listened. Very good! They sound a lot like Fleet Foxes.

[Magic Transistor Radio]

Perfume Genius is another recent artist I like. This song is incredible!

http://youtu.be/LCvQlnJ0uZs

[Zach95]

I post this only as a defense and not as a means to be negative or tell people I think their opinion is wrong:

I call it junk because I greatly dislike everything about it and can't really even appreciate most of it (not all of it) as art even outside my own dislike for it. I don't think that's lazy. I like many an awkward artist (we are on a Beach Boys forum) and probably many a pretentious artist (it comes with the territory, often), this guy's approach and style as a musician, producer, singer - everything, just grate me beyond words. I know he's not trying to be hip or something he's not and it doesn't surprise me that they've been over the top pretentious even pre-fame. I don't doubt they have technical ability as musicians. The only similarities I've heard in their work to the Beach Boys is the occasional "Hey, this guy is trying to sing like Brian did in the 60s and isn't doing a very good job."

I didn't initially approach their music with "Bunch of pretentious assholes, this is gonna be horrible" because I didn't know anything about them. Truly, they're one of those bands that each time I'm sent in the direction of a new song, I think "Maybe this will be the one where I finally get why all my friends go on about them." I want to like what my friends like and relate to them because I don't relate to them on much anymore, but when I listen and give it another chance, it's only been further affirmation that they're just not for me at all. I should stress that, I guess - they're not for me, but if they do something for you, then that's honestly cool and I'm not gonna take issue with art affecting someone in a positive way.

No moar negativity on my part after this - I don't want to go there and I don't want to take anyone else with me.

Hey, fair enough. You can see why I called it lazy in the first place though, right? I guess it was sort of lazy for me to assume that it was lazy of you to call it junk, and for that I apologize. You made a lot of legitimate, fair points, and I respect your opinion. I much rather have people say stuff like this about things they dislike than, like you said, "I hate these guys because they're a bunch of pretentious jerks". 

[Awesoman]

For the most part, the Beach Boys have always had an image problem. From the very beginning, the surfers saw them as posers. Then the hippies never really embraced them. However, I wanted to list what I perceive as the high points of their image.

From 62 - late 66, I would say that do to the fact they had a great string of hits that kept getting better up through Good Vibrations, that there was quite a bit of respect for them. Perhaps ending around the release of Penny Lane/Strawberry Fields? But who knows if a proper release of SMiLE, and an early change from striped shirts, might have helped them into the late 60s. But I think that with Good Vibrations on top, and all the promo about the up coming SMiLE album, they still had a level of hippness and respect.

Obviously, it disappeared in the late 60s, but around 71-76 they just might have gained a hipper image then even 1966. Unfortunately that being lost with the release of 15 Big Ones.

Perhaps, Dennis Wilson was still seen as hip with POB, for those who paid attention. But really, after 1976, the hipness of the Beach Boys is mostly in the eyes of hard core fans who know the great music from 65 - 73.

Now, I know that the Beach Boys have EVER been considered hip. These are moments in time though, that they seemed respected. I'm not even talking about hits. Songs like Babarann, Do It Again, Rock N Roll Music and Kokamo are nice catchy songs that were big hits, but they don't help the image. I'm not even saying it matters. As Fred Vail (?) in a doc said (paraphasing) I'm not even sure that the BB were suppose to be hip. They just grab you weather you like it or not.

Anyways, thoughts for discussion.

When you compare the Beach Boys to the other bands at the time (the Beatles, the Rolling Stones, the Who, etc.), yeah, they were kinda square.  Sure, they earned the musical respect of their peers, but they never really seemed to be included in those various "circle of friends" that their fellow rockers were in.  Just look at some of the individual band members:  We may all love Al Jardine, but he's not exactly the kind of guy you'd bring to a party to serve as your "wingman".  And then you've got Bruce: love the guy but he makes the band Air Supply look like heavy metal (although him having the gonads to call the current prez an a-hole did finally score him some much-needed cool points).

If there ever was a "hip" member of the band, that honor would go to Dennis by default.  I fail to understand how his crazy escapades never made a bigger splash in the rock world than they should have.  Partying with the murdering Charles Manson family?  That's pretty cool.  Unable to play drums in the 70's due to breaking his hands in some obscure accident?  That's a rock 'n roller if I've ever seen one.  

[Gertie J.]

With all the AC and Grizzly Bear shout outs, I've gotta step in and give a mention to Camera Obscura...very 60s-esque, yet still modern sounding. Definitely some strong BBs, Spector, Motown, and even C&W (along with the C-86/twee/jangle/indie) influences.

Return to Send Her:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zo6VaY8HC7w

If Looks Could Kill:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N40pkMg7Z8k

French Navy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3CkfvYMCWM&feature=fvwrel

My Maudlin Career:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpxyIymzzA4

Eighties Fan (even cops the Be My Baby drumbeat):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulnzKT1yrm4

Now you're talking.

[Cabinessenceking]

For the most part, the Beach Boys have always had an image problem. From the very beginning, the surfers saw them as posers. Then the hippies never really embraced them. However, I wanted to list what I perceive as the high points of their image.

From 62 - late 66, I would say that do to the fact they had a great string of hits that kept getting better up through Good Vibrations, that there was quite a bit of respect for them. Perhaps ending around the release of Penny Lane/Strawberry Fields? But who knows if a proper release of SMiLE, and an early change from striped shirts, might have helped them into the late 60s. But I think that with Good Vibrations on top, and all the promo about the up coming SMiLE album, they still had a level of hippness and respect.

Obviously, it disappeared in the late 60s, but around 71-76 they just might have gained a hipper image then even 1966. Unfortunately that being lost with the release of 15 Big Ones.

Perhaps, Dennis Wilson was still seen as hip with POB, for those who paid attention. But really, after 1976, the hipness of the Beach Boys is mostly in the eyes of hard core fans who know the great music from 65 - 73.

Now, I know that the Beach Boys have EVER been considered hip. These are moments in time though, that they seemed respected. I'm not even talking about hits. Songs like Babarann, Do It Again, Rock N Roll Music and Kokamo are nice catchy songs that were big hits, but they don't help the image. I'm not even saying it matters. As Fred Vail (?) in a doc said (paraphasing) I'm not even sure that the BB were suppose to be hip. They just grab you weather you like it or not.

Anyways, thoughts for discussion.

When you compare the Beach Boys to the other bands at the time (the Beatles, the Rolling Stones, the Who, etc.), yeah, they were kinda square.  Sure, they earned the musical respect of their peers, but they never really seemed to be included in those various "circle of friends" that their fellow rockers were in.  Just look at some of the individual band members:  We may all love Al Jardine, but he's not exactly the kind of guy you'd bring to a party to serve as your "wingman".  And then you've got Bruce: love the guy but he makes the band Air Supply look like heavy metal (although him having the gonads to call the current prez an a-hole did finally score him some much-needed cool points).

If there ever was a "hip" member of the band, that honor would go to Dennis by default.  I fail to understand how his crazy escapades never made a bigger splash in the rock world than they should have.  Partying with the murdering Charles Manson family?  That's pretty cool.  Unable to play drums in the 70's due to breaking his hands in some obscure accident?  That's a rock 'n roller if I've ever seen one.  

Good points here. I think the only really cool and hip members of the group by the 70's were Dennis and Carl. Carl had built connections by talking to the Grateful Dead, Chicago, Elton John etc. They also had communication with some members of the Who and Brian was in touch with Macca too some extent. They regained their hip-credentials in the 70's with Holland and their live performances in particular. Blondie Chaplin came from nowhere and ended up being great friends with Keith Richards, something he can only attribute to being a Beach Boy for 2-3 years. What really killed the hip image was 15BO and Love You was very much the same. Had LA(Light Album) or something like it with a few more rocking tracks in 1974-75 they woulda remained hip. Endless Summer screwed them over in the sense that it allowed for Brian to come back (with his oldie ideas) and therefore take away Carl's leading role. They coulda easily done more progressive albums in the mid-70's despite Endless Summer and enjoyed the appreciation of a wider spectre of fans. I still dig parts of 15BO and all of Love You, but that was their last big chance at hipness burned.

[runnersdialzero]

Nothing cooler than being associated with a guy who ordered the murder of a pregnant woman and a bunch of other harmless people.

[Rocker]

I thought it was known that Col Parker got Elvis wrtiting credits for the $, that he didnt actually write any.

Elvis got just a few credits for songwriting (btw that was nothing special back then but standard practice). But if you compare "All shook up" in Otis Blackwell's original demo with Presley's version you probably could even say that the writing credit is appropriate.

Otis Blackwell "All shook up" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyKn8M3HLP4
Otis Blackwell "Paralyzed" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYQdOyuwicU&feature=related
Glenn Reeves "Heartbreak hotel" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jzf7AQqXmgM

Look for the Presley recordings in your well sorted record collection.

Another interesting thing is that the writers of the songs certainly made more money giving credit for Elvis than they would've ever made otherwise. And remember, they did that by choice.

If you want more insight, get this: http://shop.elvis.com.au/prod1549.htm

 
Chuck Berry, Little Richard and Fats Domino are fantastic but none of them has the diversity of Elvis. Little Richrad has a lot (and so does Jerry Lee Lewis) but Fats and Chuck are very sticked to just a certain style of music (Berry more than Domino) while Elvis made his own style. That guy was a masterful singer and musician and you can't limit him to only Rock'n'Roll, R'n'B or Country. The man was and probably still is too elusive to fit into any category. If one can't understand this one should be at least fair enough to admit this instead of parotting bullsh!t that was written by people who themselves don't have a clue.
The recordings are there. Just listen to them.

Elvis, while being a GREAT performer, at the end of the day, was a pawn of Col. Parker.

Can't believe this sh!t. Elvis was the boss. The Colonel worked for him. They were the perfect team. Colonel took care of the business site and Elvis of the music. That's the way Elvis wanted it and the way he became the biggest star of all time. Can't say anything against that. It's the same with the Colonel, people talk sh!t about him because some conspiracy-freak once wrote something.



My point is: don't claim something you don't have a clue about





BTW sorry if this sounds harsh, it wasn't supposed to.

[Awesoman]

Nothing cooler than being associated with a guy who ordered the murder of a pregnant woman and a bunch of other harmless people.

I was being facetious, chief.  Thanks for playing.

[runnersdialzero]

I was being facetious, chief of medicine.

???

[SG7]

I can't believe no one has mentioned Stereolab in here yet. Full of Beach Boys inspired stuff.

[Jim V.]

 And then you've got Bruce: love the guy but he makes the band Air Supply look like heavy metal (although him having the gonads to call the current prez an a-hole did finally score him some much-needed cool points).

Not gonna make this a political thread. But Bruce calling President Obama an "asshole" is hardly cool point worthy. In fact, it just makes him look like what he is: a clueless old, rich white guy.

[RBennett123]

Not to promote anything on here, but my band has a lot of Beach Boy influences (mostly harmonies and vibe). They ARE my favorite band, of course.


http://monarques.bandcamp.com/

[UK_Surf]

I always loved the Beach Boys, but felt somehow vindicated when Frank Black released HOTYE as a single. Whenever anyone says the pre-PS BBs aren't hip, I usually roll my eyes. If, however, a smack-down is required, these eight little words do the trick:
The Jesus and Mary Chain Covered Surfin' USA.

[Awesoman]

 And then you've got Bruce: love the guy but he makes the band Air Supply look like heavy metal (although him having the gonads to call the current prez an a-hole did finally score him some much-needed cool points).

Not gonna make this a political thread. But Bruce calling President Obama an "asshole" is hardly cool point worthy. In fact, it just makes him look like what he is: a clueless old, rich white guy.

You just did.  But Bruce will have the last laugh in November.  Mwah-hahaaha!

[Magic Transistor Radio]

I always loved the Beach Boys, but felt somehow vindicated when Frank Black released HOTYE as a single. Whenever anyone says the pre-PS BBs aren't hip, I usually roll my eyes. If, however, a smack-down is required, these eight little words do the trick:
The Jesus and Mary Chain Covered Surfin' USA.

They are also respected by REM, U2, Smashing Pumkins, Weezer, Stereo Lab, and I could go on.

[Zach95]

I always loved the Beach Boys, but felt somehow vindicated when Frank Black released HOTYE as a single. Whenever anyone says the pre-PS BBs aren't hip, I usually roll my eyes. If, however, a smack-down is required, these eight little words do the trick:
The Jesus and Mary Chain Covered Surfin' USA.

When I discovered Yo La Tengo covered Little Honda and Farmer's Daughter I felt the same way. In addition to some other groups mentioned here, Daft Punk, surprisingly enough, adored the Beach Boys.