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Author Topic: Surf's Up lyrics - assist  (Read 14715 times)
hypehat
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« Reply #50 on: August 01, 2012, 04:28:46 AM »

Also, the acapella to these ears sounds like Al singing those lines - and when Brian ever say 'Holy Mackerel'?

But it is Desper....
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« Reply #51 on: August 01, 2012, 04:35:26 PM »

Not to fan the flames of an age old debate, but yeah, I'd bet my testicles that's Al singing the "A children's song" part, at least on the finished, available version. Al even said it was him, did he not?
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« Reply #52 on: August 01, 2012, 11:41:16 PM »

The thing is, the only lyrics that SWD actually specifically quoted as being sung by Brian were "A children's song" -- which Brian absolutely did, right before the group came in at the end. Even clearer than the aforementioned "Holy mackerel!" isolation that was going around a few years ago is the isolated vocals from the Endless Harmony DVD 5.1 mixes...if that's not Al singing the "and the children know the way..." lyrics, then Brian sure did a good job of imitating him. And somebody didn't know how to pronounce the word "children," or as sung in that little coda, "chill-ren."
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« Reply #53 on: August 02, 2012, 06:09:20 AM »

I've known for years that it was 'bygone, bygone', but there was a time when I thought it was 'right on, right on', which would have been a fairly hip addition in 1971!  Smokin


And for the longest time I was trying to figure out what was meant by 'Color made it ruins....domino'    LOL

COMMENT:

Those of you hear "by gone" or "my god" or "rise up" or other phrases, you need to do the following.

Play Surf's Up with the volume low.

Getting away from room reflections will help to understand the recorded word.
 
Put your ear very close to one of the stereo speakers. Say a couple of inches or so.

Now listen.

It's  "Mike, ell" or Michael. It's hard to make "Michael" sound musical. They did it by changing the emphasis.


You can also play the psycoacoustic game of thinking what you want to hear. Like "by gone." If you think you hear that, you may seem to hear it.

The reason it's on the lyric sheet as "Michael" is because that is the lyric.


~swd

Mr Desper, is there room for a possible revision that took place between the lyrics being written down and the vocal tracks being laid down in your opinion? Because I can say with 99.95% certainty that the following isolated track reveals to me that "bygone" is what is being sung, not "Michael". It's a shame, I was really hoping to hear Michael  Sad https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqMwMvnDmbY
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« Reply #54 on: August 02, 2012, 06:53:21 AM »

Hmmm. Sounds like "Bygone" most conclusively to me also.  Undecided
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« Reply #55 on: August 02, 2012, 12:19:51 PM »

(FWIW, I always thought it was "Cal-gon, Cal-gon" -- as in "take me away." Prove me wrong, fellas!)
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« Reply #56 on: August 02, 2012, 02:11:10 PM »

Yeah, whatever's on the lyric sheet, the backing vocals definitely actually sing 'bygone, bygone'. Possibly a last-minute lyric change that Mr Desper forgot?
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« Reply #57 on: August 02, 2012, 10:23:00 PM »

Never mind what's on that handwritten lyric sheet, what does it say in the lyrics on the sleeve of BWPS?
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« Reply #58 on: August 02, 2012, 10:30:40 PM »

Never mind what's on that handwritten lyric sheet, what does it say in the lyrics on the sleeve of BWPS?

Not especially relevant - there are known fuckups from what appeared on BWPS in comparison to the original recordings. "Out in the barnyard, the cook is chopping lumber" instead of the original "Out in the farmyard, the cook is chopping lumber", for instance. Not knocking BWPS, just saying, there are a few examples where there are accidental differences.
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« Reply #59 on: August 02, 2012, 11:15:47 PM »

Hm.
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Stephen W. Desper
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« Reply #60 on: August 03, 2012, 10:35:35 AM »

I've known for years that it was 'bygone, bygone', but there was a time when I thought it was 'right on, right on', which would have been a fairly hip addition in 1971!  Smokin


And for the longest time I was trying to figure out what was meant by 'Color made it ruins....domino'    LOL

COMMENT:

Those of you hear "by gone" or "my god" or "rise up" or other phrases, you need to do the following.

Play Surf's Up with the volume low.

Getting away from room reflections will help to understand the recorded word.
 
Put your ear very close to one of the stereo speakers. Say a couple of inches or so.

Now listen.

It's  "Mike, ell" or Michael. It's hard to make "Michael" sound musical. They did it by changing the emphasis.


You can also play the psycoacoustic game of thinking what you want to hear. Like "by gone." If you think you hear that, you may seem to hear it.

The reason it's on the lyric sheet as "Michael" is because that is the lyric.


~swd

Mr Desper, is there room for a possible revision that took place between the lyrics being written down and the vocal tracks being laid down in your opinion? Because I can say with 99.95% certainty that the following isolated track reveals to me that "bygone" is what is being sung, not "Michael". It's a shame, I was really hoping to hear Michael  Sad https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqMwMvnDmbY

COMMENT:  I don't post here to fan the flames of controversy. I posted what I remember about the Surf's Up that I recorded. That version was issued on V-Groove LP from an analog source. There was no digital mass distribution system in place when Surf's Up LP was released. I oversaw the original release from inception to release. The LP test pressings were approved by Carl, as producer and myself, as engineer/mixer. When digital misdistribution was introduced into the general public with the CD, the transition of the LP demand to the CD demand was rather swift. Capital Records’ engineers made the first analog to digital conversion. Nothing special was done. Capital was transferring thousands of titles, there entire library, from analog to digital. Later on, other masterings were issued that tried to undue the LP EQ used at the time of mastering. Some more recent masterings do a fairly good job. Unfortunately, none of them complete the matrix. More later.

Frankly, forty years later I also hear "bygone" on the first pass, but I know what happened during the session, as I posted. I suppose you could go back and listen to the multi-track from that period. I did listen to your vocal distillation, but wonder if this is from (1) The SMiLE album version rather than the Surf’s Up album version and (2) a digitally converted source. If so, the vocal distillation is beyond my engineering input. Still, Carl's comment would be only a memory in my mind and proves nothing, except to me. As for revisions, the recording of the song on the SURF'S UP album was under my complete control, with the exception of the some tracks left over from Columbia Studios and The Ed Sullivan show. I wonder why, with all the various re-issue albums that contain Surf's Up and the copyrighted lyric sheets that are published with them or separate to them; that in the last forty years no editor, manager, singer, writer, or A&R department has modified the lyric or questioned its accuracy.

To be copyrighted by the US Copyright Office the notes and lyrics must be submitted following certain government guidelines. It is a serious matter. Correctness of all lyric content is of paramount importance. The Beach Boy office did maintain a secretary, one of whose duties it was to submit lyric copyrightings in coordination with the artist. Did Carl, the producer, make a mistake when he approved the lyric sheet submitted to the Copyright Office? These things are checked and double-checked before submission -- it is important to the artists and the record company. These are legal documents.

Surf's Up (the Carl Wilson production) is such a bizarre construction of an unfinished song, perhaps this Michael/Bygone episode is yet another escapade in the weird saga of this mystical song. Maybe Carl misunderstood my question, or I his answer. But then the lyric sheet, that is the copyrighted and published lyric sheet, agrees with what I understood at the time.

I have tried to remember any other situations concerning the recording of that phrase. I can only remember what I posted. I did not mean to open a can-of-worms with several opinions crawling around this thread. If you are comfortable hearing "bygone" then go with that. There is no rule here. Neither word appears on the handwritten manuscript since it's a background vocal. 

As I said, listening all these years later it sounds like "bygone" to me, if I want it to be, and "Michael," if that. It's a fascinating dilemma for me, having recorded the damn phrase in the first place. I’m trying to be accurate here as I know how important it is to some of you. It is frustrating when you can’t remember a detail when you know it’s in your head somewhere.

After pacing around my house for several hours trying to remember anything that might shade some light on this dilemma, I did remember one thing. And don't get all crazy with this. But in the course of my tenure with them, I do recall a couple of times where two different vocals were recorded, either at the same time or on separate tracks (later combined). That is, two different sets of words were sung to the same notes at the same time and given equal weight in the mix. Or one mixed down to a subliminal level, but still an influence. I don't recall which songs were treated this way, but it did happen. Maybe this is one of those times -- I just cannot remember. I recorded it when I was 28 … now 70. I recorded so many songs and even more tracks of vocals, keeping all the details straight for this group is beyond my powers of recollection.

NEXT DAY

After sleeping on it, this morning I got out my LP copy. Put it on the turntable and listened. Again, I can hear it either way. Then I got to thinking, you-all are listening to the stereo versions. That version is the version always released. However, it is the unresolved-matrix version. On the other hand, I’m always listening to the resolved-matrix version, since I have the playback matrix in my playback system. So I got an idea.

I got up close to one speaker and adjusted the matrix from no influence to maximum influence. Low and behold, I could make what sounds like “bygone” come out or go back into the mix, and the “Michael” come out or go back into the mix by adjusting a couple of the matrix’s controls. The influence in rather subtle, but it is there. Dare I think that this is one of those cases of dual vocals and I can’t remember doing it that way. It behaves as if the “Michael: vocal is in the matrix and the “bygone” vocal is not. So the “bygone” vocal would seem louder in the stereo release. Now I’m just speculating here. I’m trying to solve a dichotomy that I created, but can’t remember.

Please don’t read into this anything definite. It’s all speculation at this point.

What is interesting to me is that Surf’s Up is already a song shrouded in mystery … mystical beginnings, mystical suspension, mystical resurrection, mystical lyrics. So why not add to this mystery a mystery sounding background vocal track. It fits the song just as much as the super-natural powers Brian ascribes to it. If what I’m hearing on playback is any indicator, at least I know how I would have treated a dual-vocal track for this song. I would have put the Michael (prayer) part into the matrix so as to make it sound more ethereal and less mortal. I know my own habits and how I would have approached it, if any of this is true. Again, I do not remember. It’s all speculation about a part we all hear one way and then another way, a part shrouded in mixing mystery, a part of lyrical conundrum as enigmatic as the entire song itself. Seems fitting in a strange way. 


 ~swd

PS :: Brian sang the Father of the man ending in his pajamas.
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« Reply #61 on: August 03, 2012, 10:59:17 AM »

Thank you Stephen for your much appreciated and valuable input. How fascinating indeed! 
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Stephen W. Desper
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« Reply #62 on: August 03, 2012, 11:09:09 AM »

The thing is, the only lyrics that SWD actually specifically quoted as being sung by Brian were "A children's song" -- which Brian absolutely did, right before the group came in at the end. Even clearer than the aforementioned "Holy mackerel!" isolation that was going around a few years ago is the isolated vocals from the Endless Harmony DVD 5.1 mixes...if that's not Al singing the "and the children know the way..." lyrics, then Brian sure did a good job of imitating him. And somebody didn't know how to pronounce the word "children," or as sung in that little coda, "chill-ren."

COMMENT:

Y'all are confusing yourselves. Either stay with the Carl Wilson supervised production of Surf's Up, or don't. There is only one version I worked on.  All other versions are someone else's product.

Here, in its entirety is page 31 from my book Recording The Beach Boys . . .

SURF’S UP UNDER SIEGE   By way of the 5.1 remix issues, Surf’s Up is being torn apart and reconstructed for the sake of today's technology and profit motive. As I said on page one, “The business aspect of the entertainment industry played a major role in the development of The Beach Boys’ music…” It looks like business as usual. I assure you, Carl would never approve of any re-mixing of this production of Surf’s Up, nor would brother Dennis or Al Jardine. Remixing certainly nullifies any claim by the crafters of such mischief to the new production being “Produced by The Beach Boys.” It removes an essential part in the process. It unravels the very fabric of the creative soul these great artists gave to us through this technical art form.

The six Beach Boys who created Surf’s Up were not mere singers, they were creative artisans painting with the brushes of the mixing console on a canvas of two-track stereo and matrixed recording tape. The paintings they produced are completed.

It is not for The Louvre to touch up the Mona Lisa with acrylic paint in the interest of an update, just as it would be wrong for RKO to colorize “Citizen Kane” because they can. Should we reconstruct the Taj Mahal or Saint Peter’s Basilica because we can now build with steel? Would it be our place to make them more grandiose in keeping with the times? Is it Capitol Records’ place in history to re-arrange Surf’s Up just to appease the current surround fad? When he was alive Carl insisted the re-issues of Pet Sounds be made in mono, the way Brian originally mixed it. This was Carl setting a precedent; don’t change the original. 

What an insult to and disrespect of Carl Wilson! He lived to give rise and finish the recording we all know and love. Carl’s untimely death does not usher in the right to re-engineer his master tape, his final statement of Surf’s Up. If any re-mix claims to be the real production of Carl Wilson’s hand, it is a fraudulent copy, a counterfeit, a fake of the real Surf’s Up.

Technically it is impossible to remix Surf’s Up to 5.1 from the 16 track original multi-track. Many of the sounds on Surf’s Up were created on the fly or by way of acoustic ping-pong and were not preserved on the master multi-track. To add insult to injury, inferior vocal tracks were left intact on the original multi-track but not used for the mixdown. Only Carl and myself know which tracks were used (I doubt I could remember the idiosyncrasies of each track anyway). So remixes to 5.1 will undoubtedly contain mistaken tracks while also not contain other original tracks, thereby not mimic the original work nor its mixdown.
 
Re-mastering of the final two-track masters for release on the CD medium offers a chance for improving the sound since the originals MASTER TAPES were optimized for the LP medium. Re-mastering, unlike re-mixing, does not disrupt the producer’s intent and often accomplishes his true objective which was limited by the earlier technology.


The songs of Surf’s Up were produced by THE BEACH BOYS
1971 group members included: Brian Wilson, Carl Wilson, Dennis Wilson, Alan Jardine, Michael Love, and Bruce Johnston
 


~swd
« Last Edit: August 03, 2012, 11:48:37 AM by Stephen W. Desper » Logged
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« Reply #63 on: August 05, 2012, 02:36:09 PM »

Very very very well put, Mr. Desper. Got a little choked up reading that.

SURF S UP (Legal Title)
BMI Work #1434517

Songwriter/Composer:           Current Affiliation    CAE/IPI #
PARKS VAN DYKE              ASCAP                  23519307
WILSON BRIAN              BMI                  33029517
 
Publishers:
BROTHER PUBLISHING CO.        BMI                  33957469
CROW CRIES MUSIC          BMI                  486641519

Artists:
BEACH BOYS
WILSON BRIAN
« Last Edit: August 05, 2012, 02:45:10 PM by petsite » Logged
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« Reply #64 on: August 05, 2012, 03:40:30 PM »

NEXT DAY

After sleeping on it, this morning I got out my LP copy. Put it on the turntable and listened. Again, I can hear it either way. Then I got to thinking, you-all are listening to the stereo versions. That version is the version always released. However, it is the unresolved-matrix version. On the other hand, I’m always listening to the resolved-matrix version, since I have the playback matrix in my playback system. So I got an idea.

Mr. Desper, is it possible for a studying Audio Engineer such as myself to achieve this playback matrix at home?
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« Reply #65 on: August 05, 2012, 03:58:44 PM »

Maybe I am just listening selectively, but I can hear the "bygone" and the "Michael". I would venture a guess that "bygone" is sung and "Michael" seems to be what is whispered.
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« Reply #66 on: August 05, 2012, 05:05:28 PM »

Maybe I am just listening selectively, but I can hear the "bygone" and the "Michael". I would venture a guess that "bygone" is sung and "Michael" seems to be what is whispered.

I was thinking the same thing.
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« Reply #67 on: August 06, 2012, 10:33:54 AM »

Mr. Desper, is it possible for a studying Audio Engineer such as myself to achieve this playback matrix at home?

COMMENT: It's quite complex; many years of development, the subject of two court-tested patents, a 150 page white paper with 108 references to pear reviewed research papers and other patents. Beyond this are added improvements that include transient restoration techniques. However, an alternative solution for fans, such as yourself, is in the works.  Please Stand-By. 

~swd
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« Reply #68 on: August 06, 2012, 12:38:48 PM »

What is interesting to me is that Surf’s Up is already a song shrouded in mystery … mystical beginnings, mystical suspension, mystical resurrection, mystical lyrics. So why not add to this mystery a mystery sounding background vocal track. It fits the song just as much as the super-natural powers Brian ascribes to it. If what I’m hearing on playback is any indicator, at least I know how I would have treated a dual-vocal track for this song. I would have put the Michael (prayer) part into the matrix so as to make it sound more ethereal and less mortal. I know my own habits and how I would have approached it, if any of this is true. Again, I do not remember. It’s all speculation about a part we all hear one way and then another way, a part shrouded in mixing mystery, a part of lyrical conundrum as enigmatic as the entire song itself. Seems fitting in a strange way.  [/size]

 ~swd

PS :: Brian sang the Father of the man ending in his pajamas.

This paragraph, and the post scriptum, together and apart, are among the most beautiful pieces of writing I've ever read on this board. Thank you, Mr. Desper!
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« Reply #69 on: August 06, 2012, 02:23:28 PM »

Mr. Desper, is it possible for a studying Audio Engineer such as myself to achieve this playback matrix at home?

COMMENT: It's quite complex; many years of development, the subject of two court-tested patents, a 150 page white paper with 108 references to pear reviewed research papers and other patents. Beyond this are added improvements that include transient restoration techniques. However, an alternative solution for fans, such as yourself, is in the works.  Please Stand-By. 

~swd

Amazing to hear! Thank you, and looking forward to it!
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