Murray Ruins It :/

[Newguy562]

Poor Brian :/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgUUM8RxsB4&feature=related

[Runaways]

i love the since you put down dee dee bee BAAH BAHH DA BEE da dee dah

[Jason]

Ah, the 40 minute tape of the Help Me Rhonda vocal session. One of many Beach Boys trainwrecks...

[JohnMill]

That's a great find! Never heard and watched it! Thank you, Newguy!
A little throwing in a few notes:
1. Murry didn't sound to me drunken, notwithstanding his roughness. From what I've read he's described as an abusive father of his children and I think that's not an effect of an alcohol - it was his usual behavior.

You don't have to sound incoherent to be suffering from the affects of too much alcohol.  Murray becomes downright belligerent as the session progresses far surpassing the uncomfortable stage veering quickly towards the intolerable stage.  While it's a fascinating listen all the years later into how The Beach Boys were transitioning as far as getting out from under Murray's thumb, it's equally unfortunate that preserved for posterity is an extremely uncomfortable moment for the band.  The last couple of minutes are extremely hard to listen to.  Anyone here familiar with Arthur Miller's "Death Of A Salesman?"  It reminds me of that.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Here's the full 40 minutes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bxfR-Vuo8Y

A few things from this:

When it is given in Endless Harmony video or A&E Bio (can't remember which, maybe both) what doesn't come across is the fact that it is not all gloom. The Boys spend a great deal of time mocking Murry, knowing full well that he can hear them - almost the way that kids can make fun of their parents. Another thing is that the Dennis/Murry antagonism is on display here. After Murry's "I have 3000 words" rant, Dennis says, "That was 86 words" (or something, I haven't listened to it again to get the exact number). When Murry says, "I said 3000 words, Dennis", Dennis responds, "Okay, that's 92 words." You can kind of see how Dennis liked to fuel the fire.

In these sessions, you also get a fight between Brian and Mike - over what, I'm not sure, maybe someone with better ears or better interpretive skills can figure it out. It is also clear at one point that Murry and Mike have never got along well. What also really comes across is how well Brian knew his father and his father's behavior. He is being very accomodating to Murry for quite a bit during this video until finally he can't take it anymore. Anyway, very interesting stuff.

[KittyKat]

Murry wasn't even manager of the band at that point.  He also hadn't produced them for a couple of years.  He came to the studio only because Brian invited him.  Brian was the one who had the tape rolling to capture what his father was saying.  It's not the tape for the actual session because they only rolled tape when they were actually singing or playing.  It seems to have been a set-up by Brian to humiliate his father in front of the band and the friends who were invited to the session.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Murry wasn't even manager of the band at that point.  He also hadn't produced them for a couple of years.  He came to the studio only because Brian invited him.  Brian was the one who had the tape rolling to capture what his father was saying.  It's not the tape for the actual session because they only rolled tape when they were actually singing or playing.  It seems to have been a set-up by Brian to humiliate his father in front of the band and the friends who were invited to the session.

How's that? Did he get Audree to liquor him up too? Why did he keep the tape running before Murry started talking? Was this part of the "set-up"?

[KittyKat]

Inviting him to the session was a set-up.  I think Brian knew what would happen.  It's not like he invited Murry down to that many, if any,  sessions.  Unless he invited Murry to torture Al Jardine.  Which is possible. 

[JanBerryFarm]

Without Murry there would be no 'Breakaway'.

Could you live without it?

let's see... without Murry there'd be no, what? Brian, Dennis or Carl?

Could you live without them?

[Amy B.]

Murry wasn't even manager of the band at that point.  He also hadn't produced them for a couple of years.  He came to the studio only because Brian invited him.  Brian was the one who had the tape rolling to capture what his father was saying.  It's not the tape for the actual session because they only rolled tape when they were actually singing or playing.  It seems to have been a set-up by Brian to humiliate his father in front of the band and the friends who were invited to the session.

I always thought Brian invited Murry because he felt guilty that they had fired him and that Murry had become depressed as a result. (Plus, it seems like Brian's family and friends were always hanging around the studio.) He humored Murry by inviting him--and isn't this when Chuck Britz set up a fake soundboard so Murry would think he was actually doing something with the sound? I think the tape was rolling because they were recording. Maybe Brian kept it going so others could hear what Murry was doing to him...it is interesting that Brian didn't yell for them to stop the tape. But it just sounds like Murry kept interrupting. There are a bunch of examples where the guys are fooling around and the tape is rolling, so this wasn't unusual.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Inviting him to the session was a set-up.  I think Brian knew what would happen. It's not like he invited Murry down to that many, if any,  sessions.  Unless he invited Murry to torture Al Jardine.  Which is possible.  

I think what you're saying is completely implausible, personally. And that's giving you the benefit of the doubt. Brian was consistently asking his father's opinion of things well after he was fired (Caroline, No, Breakaway, etc.). It's not like Murry was out of their lives entirely and it seems fairly in keeping with Brian that he would invite both Murry and his mother to the session, particularly at a time when Brian was inviting lots of people to the sessions.

Do you likewise believe that Brian's outburst halfway through the session to be fake?

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

i love the since you put down dee dee bee BAAH BAHH DA BEE da dee dah

Makes me think of Bill Cosby for some reason.

[ontor pertawst]

It's not like Murry needed an invitation. Wouldn't he just find out and talk his way in anyway sometimes towards the end?

I want a Murry action figure... with pop-out eye, and a button that plays snippets from that tape.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLABwedMlFw

[KittyKat]

Inviting him to the session was a set-up.  I think Brian knew what would happen. It's not like he invited Murry down to that many, if any,  sessions.  Unless he invited Murry to torture Al Jardine.  Which is possible.  

I think what you're saying is completely implausible, personally. And that's giving you the benefit of the doubt. Brian was consistently asking his father's opinion of things well after he was fired (Caroline, No, Breakaway, etc.). It's not like Murry was out of their lives entirely and it seems fairly in keeping with Brian that he would invite both Murry and his mother to the session, particularly at a time when Brian was inviting lots of people to the sessions.

Do you likewise believe that Brian's outburst halfway through the session to be fake?

Giving me the benefit of the doubt?  Gee, thanks. 

[Andrew G. Doe]

Murry wasn't even manager of the band at that point.  He also hadn't produced them for a couple of years.  He came to the studio only because Brian invited him.  Brian was the one who had the tape rolling to capture what his father was saying.  It's not the tape for the actual session because they only rolled tape when they were actually singing or playing.  It seems to have been a set-up by Brian to humiliate his father in front of the band and the friends who were invited to the session.

The "Rhonda" tape originates from a 2-track slave that Chuck kept running continuously during the BB sessions he engineered for later reference purposes. No set-up by Brian, Murry humiliated himself.

As for the highlighted part... I take it you've not heard any of the SOT boots or The Smile Sessions, then.

[ontor pertawst]

Murry didn't need a setup to humiliate himself, he was f***ed up enough to manage that alone. What a master class is passive aggressive manipulation that tape is at first, the way he treats Al... yeesh.

[KittyKat]

I've never heard of anyone running a background tape of recording sessions using a low-fi mono tape machine, including people talking for minutes or hours at a time, for reference purposes.  I also wonder who leaked all those tapes of the Rhonda session in particular.  If Murry was there so often after he was fired, then why aren't there other tapes circulating of him being around?  Or did someone leak that one just to show Murry in a particularly bad light?  I'd have to think there are other examples if Murry acted like that all the time. 

[ontor pertawst]

Well, you've heard of it now. Fairly normal practice! Obviously stuff like this gets leaked and circulated when the contents are interesting.

cue Casey Kasem and the tale of Snuggles.

[KittyKat]

I found a link that says that Murry asked to have the tape stopped at one point (meaning the lo-fi background recorder) and Brian refuses to do it, like he wanted to make sure that everything Murry was saying was captured.  I'll have to listen to the whole tape some time to see if that's there.   There must be other instances of Murry's personality caught on tape if those recorders had always been running.  For instance capturing the early days before Murry was fired and had the producer title or even Murry's firing itself since that happened at a recording session according to the biographies.  I've never heard any tapes other than the Rhonda session tape of Murry trying to run a session.

[JanBerryFarm]

Interesting. But don't forget to ignore and wish away the preponderance of tapes snippits wherein Murry appears to be helpfully and friendly.

Now isn't it possible that Murry wasn't fired because he wanted to coach Al's phrasing at the HElp mE RhondA session,
.............but more likely he was fired so the 'boys' could drink, smoke, swear, ravish chicks, without Murry. 

NAW!! Course not. 

[hypehat]

I found a link that says that Murry asked to have the tape stopped at one point (meaning the lo-fi background recorder) and Brian refuses to do it, like he wanted to make sure that everything Murry was saying was captured.  

Maybe you're misinterpreting it.

A) Murry wants to stop the session, using a phrase similar to "Stop rolling". Brian disagrees, because he is trying to run a session and doesn't want to stop.

B) Murry says it to stop a take, which he does several times during the session. Brian carries on.

C) Murry asks to stop the tape. Brian unleashes a big vaudevillain-esque laugh and says "Never! Now everyone in Hollywood will know that you are a drunk, belligerent swine" (as if that was news) before asking Chuck to throw the switch.


Seriously, Brian was working this way a lot during 1965. There are vocal sessions for When I Grow Up and Dance Dance Dance (or DYWD, don't have the SOTs) in circulation which were recorded in similar circumstances. And probably more in the vaults, or were erased/taped over. 

And he didn't invite Murry to every one of these sessions. Maybe bringing him down to the session was an olive branch after firing him? Ever think about that?

[37!ws]

Have to agree with AGD's assessment. Apparently that was a common practice in recording, period -- which explains why there are bootlegs of Beatles overdub sessions -- yeah, you'd think that wouldn't be possible because you just rewind and wipe out the bad take, but the fact that they exist basically proves that there was a second machine going.

[Andrew G. Doe]

I've never heard of anyone running a background tape of recording sessions using a low-fi mono tape machine, including people talking for minutes or hours at a time, for reference purposes.  I also wonder who leaked all those tapes of the Rhonda session in particular.  If Murry was there so often after he was fired, then why aren't there other tapes circulating of him being around?  Or did someone leak that one just to show Murry in a particularly bad light?  I'd have to think there are other examples if Murry acted like that all the time.  

Just because you've not heard something doesn't mean it doesn't happen. My source for the slave running came from a 1985 interview I did with someone in LA, in Western 3 control room. Go on, take a wild guess at his name.  

Also, try rereading what I actually said - not mono but a 2-track (that's stereo) recorder, of studio standard that was plugged into the mixing board. People misquote me, I stop being so pleasant.

Also, your basic BB knowledge is truly deficient - after Murry was sacked during an April 2nd 1964 session for "IGA", he didn't attend many, if any, BB sessions. The clue is in Murry saying Brian invited him down.

AS for why it was leaked in the 90s, well, c'mon - it's hilarious.  No conspiracy to diss Murry.

Say... you're really Phil Cohen, aren't you ?  

[JohnMill]

Quick question: On the "Hawthorne" compilation is that Murry's voice I hear in the CR during the backing track for "Fun Fun Fun"?

[KittyKat]

I've never heard of anyone running a background tape of recording sessions using a low-fi mono tape machine, including people talking for minutes or hours at a time, for reference purposes.  I also wonder who leaked all those tapes of the Rhonda session in particular.  If Murry was there so often after he was fired, then why aren't there other tapes circulating of him being around?  Or did someone leak that one just to show Murry in a particularly bad light?  I'd have to think there are other examples if Murry acted like that all the time.  

Just because you've not heard something doesn't mean it doesn't happen. My source for the slave running came from a 1985 interview I did with someone in LA, in Western 3 control room. Go on, take a wild guess at his name.  

Also, try rereading what I actually said - not mono but a 2-track (that's stereo) recorder, of studio standard that was plugged into the mixing board. People misquote me, I stop being so pleasant.

Also, your basic BB knowledge is truly deficient - after Murry was sacked during an April 2nd 1964 session for "IGA", he didn't attend many, if any, BB sessions. The clue is in Murry saying Brian invited him down.

AS for why it was leaked in the 90s, well, c'mon - it's hilarious.  No conspiracy to diss Murry.

Say... you're really Phil Cohen, aren't you ?  

Gee. sorry to offend.  I guess I'm not that up on my Beach Boys like some so called experts on this board that I get the idea we're supposed to all bow down to and respect like they're people who wrote the New Testament.  Some of us are just pig-ignorant people who listen to the music and read a couple of books and a few online articles. Frankly, most Beach Boys "experts" scare the c*** out of me and not in a good way.  It doesn't matter that much and I don't understand why it looks like a few of the Beach Boys "experts" gave up so much of their lives for so little in return.  My name isn't Phil Cohen. Get a grip.