Murray Ruins It :/

[bgas]

I've never heard of anyone running a background tape of recording sessions using a low-fi mono tape machine, including people talking for minutes or hours at a time, for reference purposes.  I also wonder who leaked all those tapes of the Rhonda session in particular.  If Murry was there so often after he was fired, then why aren't there other tapes circulating of him being around?  Or did someone leak that one just to show Murry in a particularly bad light?  I'd have to think there are other examples if Murry acted like that all the time.  

Just because you've not heard something doesn't mean it doesn't happen. My source for the slave running came from a 1985 interview I did with someone in LA, in Western 3 control room. Go on, take a wild guess at his name.  

Also, try rereading what I actually said - not mono but a 2-track (that's stereo) recorder, of studio standard that was plugged into the mixing board. People misquote me, I stop being so pleasant.

Also, your basic BB knowledge is truly deficient - after Murry was sacked during an April 2nd 1964 session for "IGA", he didn't attend many, if any, BB sessions. The clue is in Murry saying Brian invited him down.

AS for why it was leaked in the 90s, well, c'mon - it's hilarious.  No conspiracy to diss Murry.

Say... you're really Phil Cohen, aren't you ?  

Gee. sorry to offend.  I guess I'm not that up on my Beach Boys like some so called experts on this board that I get the idea we're supposed to all bow down to and respect like they're people who wrote the New Testament.  Some of us are just pig-ignorant people who listen to the music and read a couple of books and a few online articles. Frankly, most Beach Boys "experts" scare the c*** out of me and not in a good way.  It doesn't matter that much and I don't understand why it looks like a few of the Beach Boys "experts" gave up so much of their lives for so little in return.  My name isn't Phil Cohen. Get a grip.

What's offensive is you deem to post as if you're an authority, yet here you are admiiting  you lack the knowledge to back up what you've said.

[KittyKat]

God, this board is just awful. 

[Heysaboda]

"Move along people... nothing to see here!"

[Heysaboda]

You know what's funny is that even from the grave Murry is making people angry!

[ontor pertawst]

Show 'em who's got the guts! Sing from your heart.

Andrew, you're flatting. Watch your oo's and ah's.

KittyKat, i'm a genius too, ya know. Now let's project like we used to when we made clear records.



Say, has anybody here ever heard the spec Taco Bell jingle he recorded? I must have details.

[Rocker]

If Murry was there so often after he was fired, then why aren't there other tapes circulating of him being around? 

Brian an be heard during the God Only Knows sessions (or some other Pet Sounds sessions) saying "...right dad?"

Anyway, for more info about the Murry-Rhonda session, check out C-man's fantastic website. Here's the link to Rhonda:
http://www.tiptopwebsite.com/custommusic2/craigslowinskicom.pdf#page=45

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Show 'em who's got the guts! Sing from your heart.

Andrew, you're flatting. Watch your oo's and ah's.

KittyKat, i'm a genius too, ya know. Now let's project like we used to when we made clear records.



Say, has anybody here ever heard the spec Taco Bell jingle he recorded? I must have details.

[Andrew G. Doe]

It doesn't matter that much and I don't understand why it looks like a few of the Beach Boys "experts" gave up so much of their lives for so little in return.  My name isn't Phil Cohen. Get a grip.

It does matter - that's why this forum, and others, exist: that's why we're posting here. A certain level of knowledge is assumed here, especially when someone starts posting their beliefs as fact. Contrary to appearances, I don't devote that much of my time to BB research, and the returns I've had - lasting friendships, extensive US travel, an intermittent writing career, listening to some of the most amazing music ever composed and last but by no means least, the friendship of band/inner circle members - more than outweigh the monetary outlay.

Just so happens I have a huge regard for accuracy in all matter (not just BB), and when someone like you starts posting something that patently has no basis in fact (hint: it would have been a good idea to have heard the entire "Rhonda" tape before using it as evidence for Brian humiliating his father).

[guitarfool2002]

It's been mentioned before, but just to confirm that it was a fairly standard practice to run what some in the 60's called a "journal reel" during a session, which would capture *everything* that went down on tape. Phil Spector recorded literally everything from the time the musicians were setting up and warming up in the studio - if they played something he liked, he'd go back to that journal reel and play it for them in return if they didn't know what he was asking them to play. The source of some pristine quality Elvis studio sessions from the 50's was a journal reel that the engineer kept for decades. The sessions themselves would not have captured that much.

Brian obviously did this, Chuck Britz confirmed it to Andrew, we have some of the results: Just because we don't have as many of them for vocal sessions as "Rhonda" could mean they either were wiped, lost, or are simply not available. There were a precious few on SOT, including the Pet Sounds vocal session where Brian explains the origin of Old Master Painter as Al and the boys are cutting a vocal.

One thing to clarify: On the Help Me Rhonda tape, there are in fact *two* different sources we're hearing. There is the 40 odd minutes of the actual session. At the very end, Brian is in the room with Murry and Audree, and listen very close: He is recording the conversation on a portable recorder. You hear the microphone he's holding being jostled around, and at one point it sounds like Murry or someone else tries to grab at it or cover it, and says "turn that off", or "c'mon Brian", or something like that...I can't recall exactly. Then Murry and Audree leave.

That last few minutes sounds like Brian was trying to "interview" Murry with his tape recorder after the session had broken up. Whatever reasons he had for doing that are up for debate, but that is a different tape and different source than the full session which was recorded onto a journal reel straight from the mixing board. Both from the same day - just different sources.

[Loaf]

It doesn't matter that much and I don't understand why it looks like a few of the Beach Boys "experts" gave up so much of their lives for so little in return.  My name isn't Phil Cohen. Get a grip.

It does matter - that's why this forum, and others, exist: that's why we're posting here. A certain level of knowledge is assumed here, especially when someone starts posting their beliefs as fact. Contrary to appearances, I don't devote that much of my time to BB research, and the returns I've had - lasting friendships, extensive US travel, an intermittent writing career, listening to some of the most amazing music ever composed and last but by no means least, the friendship of band/inner circle members - more than outweigh the monetary outlay.

Yeah, but apart from the wonderful, enriching experiences that make life worth living, what do you get out of it, Andrew? 

[joshferrell]

Show 'em who's got the guts! Sing from your heart.

Andrew, you're flatting. Watch your oo's and ah's.

KittyKat, i'm a genius too, ya know. Now let's project like we used to when we made clear records.



Say, has anybody here ever heard the spec Taco Bell jingle he recorded? I must have details.

Side step to the taco bell
two step to the register
do be do be do be doo doo
we got into the woody
drove up to the window
boo bop bee zeee dee doo
we order tacos what a groovy thing to do
the sunrays are here ordering burritos too
scooby dooby zooppity doo
we synchopate to the fountain drinks
because we're genuis' too
woopity zoopity gee bop

[Andrew G. Doe]

It doesn't matter that much and I don't understand why it looks like a few of the Beach Boys "experts" gave up so much of their lives for so little in return.  My name isn't Phil Cohen. Get a grip.

It does matter - that's why this forum, and others, exist: that's why we're posting here. A certain level of knowledge is assumed here, especially when someone starts posting their beliefs as fact. Contrary to appearances, I don't devote that much of my time to BB research, and the returns I've had - lasting friendships, extensive US travel, an intermittent writing career, listening to some of the most amazing music ever composed and last but by no means least, the friendship of band/inner circle members - more than outweigh the monetary outlay.

Yeah, but apart from the wonderful, enriching experiences that make life worth living, what do you get out of it, Andrew?  

Well, put like that... nothing, really.  

[guitarfool2002]

Were there any additional thoughts on the fact that the Help Me Rhonda session tape is actually two different sources of audio, or two different tapes edited together as I spelled out a few posts ago?

I was always curious of this, namely who edited them together and why. I wondered if anyone might know the answer since this topic was raised.

[Rocker]

Were there any additional thoughts on the fact that the Help Me Rhonda session tape is actually two different sources of audio, or two different tapes edited together as I spelled out a few posts ago?

I was always curious of this, namely who edited them together and why. I wondered if anyone might know the answer since this topic was raised.

Don't know but I wonder if Brian thought about "Bull session with big daddy part 2" for Summer Day (And Summer Nights !!)
 

[AlFall]

Bgas, rumor has it that Kittykat is Bruce J.

I've never heard of anyone running a background tape of recording sessions using a low-fi mono tape machine, including people talking for minutes or hours at a time, for reference purposes.  I also wonder who leaked all those tapes of the Rhonda session in particular.  If Murry was there so often after he was fired, then why aren't there other tapes circulating of him being around?  Or did someone leak that one just to show Murry in a particularly bad light?  I'd have to think there are other examples if Murry acted like that all the time.  

Just because you've not heard something doesn't mean it doesn't happen. My source for the slave running came from a 1985 interview I did with someone in LA, in Western 3 control room. Go on, take a wild guess at his name.  

Also, try rereading what I actually said - not mono but a 2-track (that's stereo) recorder, of studio standard that was plugged into the mixing board. People misquote me, I stop being so pleasant.

Also, your basic BB knowledge is truly deficient - after Murry was sacked during an April 2nd 1964 session for "IGA", he didn't attend many, if any, BB sessions. The clue is in Murry saying Brian invited him down.

AS for why it was leaked in the 90s, well, c'mon - it's hilarious.  No conspiracy to diss Murry.

Say... you're really Phil Cohen, aren't you ?  

Gee. sorry to offend.  I guess I'm not that up on my Beach Boys like some so called experts on this board that I get the idea we're supposed to all bow down to and respect like they're people who wrote the New Testament.  Some of us are just pig-ignorant people who listen to the music and read a couple of books and a few online articles. Frankly, most Beach Boys "experts" scare the c*** out of me and not in a good way.  It doesn't matter that much and I don't understand why it looks like a few of the Beach Boys "experts" gave up so much of their lives for so little in return.  My name isn't Phil Cohen. Get a grip.

What's offensive is you deem to post as if you're an authority, yet here you are admiiting  you lack the knowledge to back up what you've said.

[hypehat]

Were there any additional thoughts on the fact that the Help Me Rhonda session tape is actually two different sources of audio, or two different tapes edited together as I spelled out a few posts ago?

I was always curious of this, namely who edited them together and why. I wondered if anyone might know the answer since this topic was raised.

Don't know but I wonder if Brian thought about "Bull session with big daddy part 2" for Summer Day (And Summer Nights !!)
 

.....it all makes sense now

[runnersdialzero]

Total gem of a recording, both in terms of educational value about how the band operated and in comedic value, even if knowing the background behind it isn't especially pleasant. Like someone else said, there is some more light-hearted banter going on in here, it's not just Murry being a hateful drunk and Brian confronting him or something.

I really hope more of this stuff exists somewhere. The similarly recorded (to give further evidence to it not being an intentional setup by Brian) "Dance Dance Dance" vocal sessions are fairly entertaining, too, with the guys getting fairly pissed off with themselves and each other. The Smile sessions stuff that's set up similarly is overall very interesting, too.

[metal flake paint]

Quick question: On the "Hawthorne" compilation is that Murry's voice I hear in the CR during the backing track for "Fun Fun Fun"?

Sure sounds like him.

Murry's presence can also be heard during sessions for "Do You Wanna Dance", "Please Let Me Wonder" & "In The Back Of My Mind."

IIRC during the "Caroline No" session, Brian says, "Let's do a good one for Murry." Not sure though if he was present or on the phone.

[hypehat]

Quick question: On the "Hawthorne" compilation is that Murry's voice I hear in the CR during the backing track for "Fun Fun Fun"?

Sure sounds like him.

Murry's presence can also be heard during sessions for "Do You Wanna Dance", "Please Let Me Wonder" & "In The Back Of My Mind."

IIRC during the "Caroline No" session, Brian says, "Let's do a good one for Murry." Not sure though if he was present or on the phone.

Yeah, I think he calls him up halfway through.

[orange22]

Quick question: On the "Hawthorne" compilation is that Murry's voice I hear in the CR during the backing track for "Fun Fun Fun"?

IIRC during the "Caroline No" session, Brian says, "Let's do a good one for Murry." Not sure though if he was present or on the phone.

Yeah, I think he calls him up halfway through.

Yes, and on SOT you can hear Hal Blaine goofing off with his count-ins. It's quite funny; on one of them he goes "one-two-three-MURRY!"

It's hard to tell whether Hal is mocking Murry or just gently teasing him, but his tone seems pleasant. It's possible that people outside the family/inner-circle didn't see Murry as such a bad guy, but just another piece in a crazy puzzle (that of course featured Brian at its center).

[JanBerryFarm]

Ya know, it's a shame that Murry couldn't have been well adjusted like, uh, Mike's father or Dave's mom, or Dennis, or Charlie..... 

[Newguy562]

I wonder what Murray thought of Pet Sounds/ Smile..

[JanBerryFarm]

I wonder what Murray thought of Pet Sounds/ Smile..

He might have secretly admired PET SOUNDS.

He probably ignored smIle. Understandable.

[KittyKat]

He told Rolling Stone magazine that he liked "Pet Sounds" and he definitely like Caroline, No, according to Brian.  I vaguely recall Brian saying somewhere that Murry was disappointed that he didn't finish "Smile."  Not that he necessarily liked it, but that he thought Brian should finish projects that he started.

[JanBerryFarm]

He told Rolling Stone magazine that he liked "Pet Sounds" and he definitely like Caroline, No, according to Brian.  I vaguely recall Brian saying somewhere that Murry was disappointed that he didn't finish "Smile."  Not that he necessarily liked it, but that he thought Brian should finish projects that he started.

Imagine that.... a psychopathic sociopath giving his son good advice (that he wouldn't follow).
What next.... advising his sons to be honest? What a monster.