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Author Topic: Loren Daro comments on Brian & LSD (possibly...)  (Read 46355 times)
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« Reply #100 on: May 28, 2012, 11:40:44 PM »

I don't know if it's a generation gap or what, but I can't relate to some of the posters here.  Oh, sure, LSD is a great thing!  It will cure people of so many of their ills.  You say I'm "misinformed." Have you even met anyone whose done LSD?  I have.  I even have a person in my immediate family who did it.  It didn't sound a positive experience to me. 

Or saying Brian is just a spoiled brat who does things to get his way.  Uh, okay, I give up.
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« Reply #101 on: May 28, 2012, 11:41:20 PM »

don't they put LSD into TVs to make them look better. Why would you drink it
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« Reply #102 on: May 28, 2012, 11:48:51 PM »

Have you even met anyone whose done LSD?

Really??

As to the book signing, isn't it pretty well established that the events of that tour are what led to finally removing Landy from Brian's life?  So yeah, no sh*t he was out of it.
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« Reply #103 on: May 28, 2012, 11:57:02 PM »

Quote
Have you even met anyone whose done LSD?  I have.  I even have a person in my immediate family who did it.  It didn't sound a positive experience to me. 

I've tripped. Have you? So what? Your mind is a mountain of propaganda.
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« Reply #104 on: May 29, 2012, 12:01:39 AM »

Quote
Have you even met anyone whose done LSD?  I have.  I even have a person in my immediate family who did it.  It didn't sound a positive experience to me. 

I've tripped. Have you? So what? Your mind is a mountain of propaganda.

People who do drugs are morons.
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« Reply #105 on: May 29, 2012, 12:13:47 AM »

I use to be a moron.

About 30 years ago I was listening to "Dark Side Of The Moon" and after dropping a tab of Window Pane I saw elephants flying and landing on the tops of telephone poles.  That was good enough for me....
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I, I love the colorful clothes she wears, and she's already working on my brain. I only looked in her eyes, but I picked up something I just can't explain. I, I bet I know what she’s like, and I can feel how right she’d be for me. It’s weird how she comes in so strong, and I wonder what she’s picking up from me. I hope it’s good, good, good, good vibrations, yeah!!
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« Reply #106 on: May 29, 2012, 12:17:23 AM »

I had a mate dropped one tab of LSD and never came back. He cannot function within the normal realms of society. Why do people defend it? Fishmonk we have been down this path before!
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« Reply #107 on: May 29, 2012, 12:18:18 AM »


There is a lot of misinformation out there about LSD, and it has become a bogeyman in Brian's life story. Loren Schwartz/Loren Daro/Loren Daro-Schwartz, regardless of his personal merits or follies, is a casualty of that narrative.

Also, lysergic acid does not cause brain damage, seep into your spinal fluid, or any of that.


Oh, yeah, we all know LSD is quite harmless, including when one is on their LSD trip.  The person that wrote the article about it in Wikipedia says it's harmless, so it must be true.  Here's a news story of the past couple of days of what one guy having an LSD trip did to another, resulting in his own death at the hands of the police (warning, graphic content, unless you consider a person high on LSD chewing a man's face off to not be graphic content):

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2151098/Naked-man-high-LSD-eats-face-victim-police-shoot-Miami.html

I didn't say LSD was harmless in the first place, so you are fabricating an argument that I did not put forth. In fact, I said that LSD can indeed be harmful specifically to those predisposed to schizoaffective disorders.

When someone is on "their LSD trip," as you put it, they are not likely to brutalize other people, and pointing to this laughable Daily Mail article shows that you have very little knowledge on the subject beyond misinformation. If my source had been Wikipedia, it would still be more reputable than The Daily Mail. However, a lot has been written in scientific journals about the clinical effects of LSD, which worked marvelously as a legal antidepressant until the counterculture began abusing it.

What's more, there have been clinical studies done on LSD that show it to be an effective treatment for alcoholism - more efficacious than 12-step programs, in fact. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/03/120308224524.htm

There was a very effective trial done in Europe where PTSD was treated in Holocaust survivors using LSD. You should check out the book I mentioned a few posts up boots, it's a pretty down to Earth affair with psychologists making observations on common types of experiences seen during their experiments with LSD.
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« Reply #108 on: May 29, 2012, 12:26:30 AM »

I had a mate dropped one tab of LSD and never came back. He cannot function within the normal realms of society. Why do people defend it? Fishmonk we have been down this path before!

But I don't disagree with you! Why the hostility? You have to be impartial 18thofmay, LSD isn't black magic. I have read more than one book on the subject, and some of them are bad or amateurish, but some of them are serious and written by professional psychiatrists. You are making an argument based on one case, and I am talking about the drug in a much broader context. Some prescription non-narcotic medicines can cause fatal reactions in a small number of patients, but you can't take those cases out of context.
LSD use is not without possible complications, but you're grossly overstating the risk. LSD does not cause people to become cannibals or stare at the sun, you cannot practically overdose on it and clinical studies have been done that showed no evidence of permanent physical or psychological damage in chronic users. These are just hard, impartial facts and are not just made up by people on wikipedia.
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« Reply #109 on: May 29, 2012, 12:28:30 AM »

I thought Mike Love wrote Good Vibrations, why would he write it about Loren's wife?
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« Reply #110 on: May 29, 2012, 12:31:43 AM »

I thought Mike Love wrote Good Vibrations, why would he write it about Loren's wife?

Tony Asher did lyrics too. I imagine Brian came up with the kernel of the song, Tony Asher did lyrics, and then Mike Love rewrote them for the final version.
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« Reply #111 on: May 29, 2012, 12:32:03 AM »

It is true that some people have done LSD multiple times, not just once, and didn't have super-negative effects.  Cary Grant comes to mind, who supposedly had multiple "trips" under a doctor's supervision.  But he was under a doctor's supervision. When many people have taken it, they were with people also taking it (or were alone) and taking LSD where they didn't know where it came from or what dose they were taking.  There were also bad reactions in medical trials with people who were labeled as having a pre-existing condition.  But since in some cases the doctors didn't know those people had a pre-existing condition, wasn't that taking a gamble to do that experiment?  It also seems that people who had "bad" trips, even without having any lasting damage, were labeled as being somehow responsible for that fact.  That's like expecting people to have control over their dreams at night. I'd have to wonder how LSD experiments in psychiatry pass ethical and scientific muster.  I'm not sure if they do.

That story about the guy in Miami is a real story, by the way.  It wasn't made up by the Daily Mail.  Whether the guy was on LSD or some other drug or combination of drugs still has to be confirmed by his autopsy.
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« Reply #112 on: May 29, 2012, 12:36:47 AM »

People who do drugs are morons.

Most people do drugs.
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« Reply #113 on: May 29, 2012, 12:40:49 AM »

Mcg... wow, just wow. It seems you enjoy being told what to think and making observations based on no personal experiential evidence. I will say that LSD probably isn't recommended for your average suburbanite. You have to be intellectually conditioned to enjoy it.
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« Reply #114 on: May 29, 2012, 12:42:47 AM »

I thought Mike Love wrote Good Vibrations, why would he write it about Loren's wife?

Tony Asher did lyrics too. I imagine Brian came up with the kernel of the song, Tony Asher did lyrics, and then Mike Love rewrote them for the final version.

The guy speaks as though Brian wrote the lyrics to those two songs, though. His allegation that Brian wrote "Good Vibrations" about his wife when Mike, the guy who is claimed in the same post to not have hung around with Brian's "followers" (including Loren), wrote the lyrics kind of debunks the whole thing. Why would Loren or whoever is claiming to be Loren basically say that Brian wrote the song about his wife? Why would Mike be writing about Loren's wife, someone who he presumably didn't know very well, if at all?
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« Reply #115 on: May 29, 2012, 12:43:13 AM »

Steve Jobs took acid when he was young, and he still managed to be a productive citizen, after all.
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« Reply #116 on: May 29, 2012, 12:45:42 AM »

Mcg... wow, just wow. It seems you enjoy being told what to think and making observations based on no personal experiential evidence. I will say that LSD probably isn't recommended for your average suburbanite. You have to be intellectually conditioned to enjoy it.

Pseudo intellectually conditioned is more like it.  
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« Reply #117 on: May 29, 2012, 12:46:51 AM »

 3D
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« Reply #118 on: May 29, 2012, 01:06:40 AM »

I thought Mike Love wrote Good Vibrations, why would he write it about Loren's wife?

Tony Asher did lyrics too. I imagine Brian came up with the kernel of the song, Tony Asher did lyrics, and then Mike Love rewrote them for the final version.

The guy speaks as though Brian wrote the lyrics to those two songs, though. His allegation that Brian wrote "Good Vibrations" about his wife when Mike, the guy who is claimed in the same post to not have hung around with Brian's "followers" (including Loren), wrote the lyrics kind of debunks the whole thing. Why would Loren or whoever is claiming to be Loren basically say that Brian wrote the song about his wife? Why would Mike be writing about Loren's wife, someone who he presumably didn't know very well, if at all?

I just answered that in the post you're responding to. Tony Asher wrote lyrics for the song before Mike Love did. Loren explicitly states that he was friends with Asher even before Brian entered into the picture. Tony Asher has also said that Brian told him what theme to use in his lyrics or what emotion the lyrics needed to express. I think it's plausible that the two of them decided to do a song at least partially inspired by Loren's wife.
Mike Love came in at a later date and rewrote or revised the original lyrics. He didn't change every line, or change the "Good Vibrations" aspect of the song, he just made a few alterations. Compare some of the versions that are out there, the BWPS version, the early version from March, 1966 on TSS and many fan versions on SMiLE comps use the Asher lyrics.
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« Reply #119 on: May 29, 2012, 01:11:33 AM »

there is no similarity between the Love lyrics and the Asher lyrics aside from variations of the phrases "Good vibrations" and "I'm picking up good vibrations".
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« Reply #120 on: May 29, 2012, 01:16:09 AM »

I think perhaps we should not take Mr. Daro's comments literally with regard to specific lyrics. It seems pretty clear that he was referring to the 'inspiration' for these songs.
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« Reply #121 on: May 29, 2012, 01:25:52 AM »

there is no similarity between the Love lyrics and the Asher lyrics aside from variations of the phrases "Good vibrations" and "I'm picking up good vibrations".

To be honest I don't know the precise difference between the two sets off the top of my head. I know that the released version and the BWPS version both start off "I love the colorful..." but the second line on BWPS changes to "and she's already working on my brain". Which Mike changed to "and the way the sunlight plays upon her hair".
I think it's clear the combination of the "Good Vibrations" idea with a love song came from Brian and Asher, and the lines that were changed by Mike were done so while maintaining the core idea. You may be right that Mike changed more lines than I remember, I maybe spoke too hastily, but I think my general point still stands. Mike didn't invalidate the original idea of the lyrics with any rewrites he did, the core premise appears to have remained the same. And so far I don't see anything that greatly challenges the idea that the original lyrics (to which Loren may have been referring to in the first place) were about Loren's wife, and that the Mike Love lyric was still beholden to the original inspiration for the song in his modifications.  
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« Reply #122 on: May 29, 2012, 01:37:37 AM »

I thought Mike Love wrote Good Vibrations, why would he write it about Loren's wife?

Tony Asher did lyrics too. I imagine Brian came up with the kernel of the song, Tony Asher did lyrics, and then Mike Love rewrote them for the final version.

The guy speaks as though Brian wrote the lyrics to those two songs, though. His allegation that Brian wrote "Good Vibrations" about his wife when Mike, the guy who is claimed in the same post to not have hung around with Brian's "followers" (including Loren), wrote the lyrics kind of debunks the whole thing. Why would Loren or whoever is claiming to be Loren basically say that Brian wrote the song about his wife? Why would Mike be writing about Loren's wife, someone who he presumably didn't know very well, if at all?

I just answered that in the post you're responding to. Tony Asher wrote lyrics for the song before Mike Love did. Loren explicitly states that he was friends with Asher even before Brian entered into the picture. Tony Asher has also said that Brian told him what theme to use in his lyrics or what emotion the lyrics needed to express. I think it's plausible that the two of them decided to do a song at least partially inspired by Loren's wife.
Mike Love came in at a later date and rewrote or revised the original lyrics. He didn't change every line, or change the "Good Vibrations" aspect of the song, he just made a few alterations. Compare some of the versions that are out there, the BWPS version, the early version from March, 1966 on TSS and many fan versions on SMiLE comps use the Asher lyrics.

Hrm? Mike changed every line of the song sans the "Good, good, good, good vibrations" part in the chorus. I have to even wonder if Mike even heard Tony Asher's original lyrics. Also, not sure what you mean about different versions - there are only two sets of lyrics out there, Mike's and Tony's. If Tony wrote lyrics about Loren's wife, cool, but why would Mike? And why would Loren still say the song was "written about my wife" if it refers to unused Tony Asher lyrics instead of the known lyrics of the final version?

And Donald, I just don't know about that. He says "'I Just Wasn't Made For These Times' was about me." As someone else said, it'd be kind of shitty of him to take that song away from Brian. He also said "Good Vibrations" was "written about my wife". His assertion that "I Just Wasn't..." makes no sense as to being about Brian is a totally ridiculous claim, too.
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« Reply #123 on: May 29, 2012, 01:43:19 AM »


To be honest I don't know the precise difference between the two sets off the top of my head.

Two totally different sets of lyrics. The BWPS uses Mike's opening line as the opening line for Tony Asher's lyric was either lost or never existed to begin with. Here are Mike's lyrics next to Tony's for comparison - absolutely nothing in common, really.

I love the colorful clothes she wears / ...
And the way the sunlight plays upon her hair / And she's already workin' on my brain
I hear the sound of a gentle word / I only looked in her eyes
On the wind that lifts her perfume through the air / But I picked up something I just can't explain
... / And I'm pickin' up...

Close my eyes, she's somehow closer now / I bet I know what she's like
Softly smile, I know she must be kind / And I can tell how right she'd be for me
When I look in her eyes / It's weird how she comes in so strong
She goes with me to a blossom world / And I wonder what she's pickin' up from me
... / I hope it's...

Both sets come down to it being a "girl song", true, but they're fairly different in other ways. Asher's lyric focuses more on wondering what this person's like, trying to interpret the signals they give off, that sort of thing. Mike's deals more with the senses while seeming pretty damn confident that this girl is into him. If Brian was directing these kids, saying, "This song is about Loren's wife and how I want to bang her," he must have given pretty different directions to both Tony and to Mike.

If we're talking inspiration alone, Brian claims it was his mother, at an early age, talking about the vibrations people give to others. It was never claimed to be how he thinks his mom is hot or something as Loren alleges in his post (which is an important detail, too - he's not talking about inspiration there, he's talking what the song is about, saying people think "Good Vibrations" is about Brian's mom when no one has ever said that. Thus it's pretty clear he is indeed saying those songs are about people, not merely inspired by them).

If you want to buy what he says about the story of the song being deliberately twisted to exclude Loren's wife at all, how about David Marks claiming the "vibrations" story about the dog was actually something his mother said to Brian, not Audree? Why do both he and Brian give a fairly similar story (albeit with a different mother) as to the song's inspiration when David wasn't even in the picture in 1966?
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« Reply #124 on: May 29, 2012, 02:13:36 AM »

Why are some people deliberately misinterpreting Loren (if it was Loren)'s comments about Brian "faking" breakdowns?

Bearing in mind that Loren probably wasn't expecting a detailed textual analysis of what he wrote, he said that Brian faked a breakdown to get out of touring. We all know that Brian didn't like touring anyway. It is not beyond the realms of possibility that Brian played-up his nerves in order to get off the airplane and out of touring.

This does not equate to Brian has been faking mental illness for 50 years. This does not mean that Brian did not need mental health treatment in 1968, the first (?) reported instance of Brian being hospitalised.

Let's try to stick to what the man said in his post rather than extrapolating for our own personal agendas.
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