Loren Daro comments on Brian & LSD (possibly...)

[Mikie]

I honestly think this whole perception of Schwartz/Daro stems from his demeanor on the Beautiful Dreamer doc. The context of his interview within the narrative of the doc & the way he laughs about Brian's trip makes him appear unsavory, but I doubt this reflects the reality of the man. I just think he was the victim of manipulative editing.

Agreed.

[Dunderhead]

I wish somebody would get him to come over here and post. Though I didn't agree with the tone of all his remarks, they all seemed pretty plausible.

The idea that Brian married Marilyn after being rejected by Diane is pretty telling, and we've talked about that "love triangle" (don't know what else to call it), a few times on this board.

[SG7]

What's with the ax to grind for Marilyn? 

[I. Spaceman]

What's with the ax to grind for Marilyn? 

Jealousy.

[Custom Machine]

While Marilyn has complained bitterly about the "hangers on" around Brian, which would most certainly include Mr. Daro, the comment Loren Daro makes here about Marilyn sure doesn't put this guy in a good light.

If I had to wager I'd say this was probably written by Loren Darro Schwartz, but the following scenario seems highly unlikely to me:

Several nights a week when I was off the road, I held in my home what could be termed a ‘salon’ – much like Gertrude Stein did in the Paris of the Twenties. Many young artists, musicians and celebrities of the period attended. Almost everyone smoked marijuana except Brian. I would not allow him to. A full year later, I finally relented and gave Brian a joint.

In other words, Mr. Daro is saying that he frequently invited Brian to his home, where almost everyone was smoking marijuana, but for an entire year there was one guest, Brain Wilson, whom Mr. Daro would not allow to smoke a joint, and that he apparently instructed his guests not to offer Brian a hit, a request to which they dutifully complied.  This scenario seems highly improbable to me.

[guitarfool2002]

I don't know if this is legit but the first 8 paragraphs are very much like what Loren Darro told me in phone conversation some 10 or 12 years ago. Stuff like the 125 mics of Owsley and the fingering of Terry Sachen for instance were in our conversation and I don't remember that stuff being published anywhere publically. Anyways, whether this was posted by Loren or not I can't say but that first bit is the same things Loren told me save the bit about Brian faking to get off the road I don't remembering coming up.

I urge everyone to read what Cam wrote here, and try to weave it into this newly-posted article supposedly from Loren. I trust Cam Mott's research and history of actually searching out and talking with these people at a time when Smile and the history of it were nowhere near as "open" as the topics as they are now in light of the past 10 years. Listen to Cam!  

A few quick points from me: First, the one about Tony Asher. This info can be found in other books and sources, but it remains a fact that Loren and Tony Asher did go to school together and were friends. The anecdote about how Tony and Brian got together either starts at Western Studios as early as 63-64 when Tony was there recording advertising jingles for his agency and Brian was there making his music, and Tony introduced Brian to Loren. OR, it was a case of that meeting being a random, inconsequential thing and Brian connected with Tony during one of the meetings/gatherings being held at Loren's place, which led to Brian getting his number later and asking if he wished to write with him on the album that became Pet Sounds.

This is fact, there was a connection, we can and have established that. No B.S.

About IJWMFTT - Writers carry ideas around on notebooks, slips of paper, or even in their memory sometimes for years until they come out in the right song...it does not seem implausible that, having known each other and traveled in the same circles since they were teenagers, that an Asher lyric which he crafted around something with Loren or his life would later manifest itself in a song he was working on with Brian, and in the Pet Sounds context, a song which took on a meaning about Brian...of course it's speculation, of course one way to confirm would be to ask, but the *possibility* to me is not something to dismiss entirely because of who is saying it. It is very possible, same thing with perhaps lyrical themes or ideas that would come out in that original, more trippy lyric theme of the Pet Sounds "Good Vibrations".

I can't get out of my mind how many of that "inner circle" around 65-66 which became Brian's Smile crew and close confidantes have said there are issues they do not discuss and have not discussed, and how some versions of stories we have all heard are not exactly the way it played out. Look at an older Mark Volman interview for an example of this, mentioning a specific aspect of it that was nowhere to found in his writing for the Smile box set. And several prominent characters in that same Smile saga were regular visitors to and friends of...Loren. It could be said Brian gravitated to that scene and they in turn gravitated toward Brian and what he was doing musically and otherwise. Judge for yourself the results we have seen...

Re: Marilyn. Pure, unbridled speculation here, but hear me out. Several of the Smile crew, including Anderle, have gone on record saying Murry Wilson was waging a not-so-secret campaign against Brian's friends at this time, and drugs were one of the main issues. They said someone did in fact find surveillance devices in Brian's car, and was there not rumor about Murry hiring people to track Brian and his friends? What if it was implied Brian's wife had been involved in something which led to something else which caused some trouble for some of those friends, and it may have been connected to Murry's "War On Drugs" surrounding his sons which was less well-known than his active campaign to criticize Brian and get these newcomers out of his life and music?

Speculation aside, Murry was doing these things...perhaps some felt he had more help than should have been given?

I know, wild, WILD speculation but it is something to consider.

And don't think we know even 1% of what really happened during this time. We can't read interviews and books and even pretend to know anything close to what things were like on, say, a random night in May 1966 when Brian might either be hanging with Loren, eating on the Sunset Strip, watching Gilligan's Island on TV, playing a game of catch, or bowling with the Rovell family, or any normal daily activity which may have had some significance to something much bigger and which we simply will never know.

I wouldn't write it off so easily until we know for sure that the article itself can be authenticated.

[endofposts]

Some of the people around Brian in the mid-'60s made critical remarks about Marilyn in various interviews and biographies.  I think it seemed odd for outsiders that a young, successful guy living in Beverly Hills would be married to a woman who looked and acted like a regular person.  I'm sure if Marilyn were some air-headed, tall, slim, beautiful model or actress type, they would have accepted her more, even if she did criticize his choice of company and use of drugs.  She also wasn't very hip.  There's some bio where one of his friends didn't like the fact she served things like steak at dinner.  Some of them were just snobby guys.  

As for Loren, he comes off as a delusional (in the literal sense) egomaniac by claiming no less than two songs were written about him and his wife.  Crazy people believe things are about them.  If that is Loren.  If IJWMFTT isn't about Brian per se, it might be Tony Asher writing about young people in general, including himself, just as the song "That's Not Me" is about young adulthood.  The entire album has that theme, and Tony has said that's what the project was about, as well as Brian. 

[juggler]

I'm sure he's more like 65 - or maybe he's making that up!

Huh, Brian is a few weeks away from 70.  And, IIRC, Tony Asher is 3 or 4 years older than Brian.  Loren could indeed be 75 (or at least turning 75 this year).

[MBE]

I think Loren comes off bad. He has a twisted view on things and seems to be trying to blame everyone but the few "hipsters" he was also friends with for Brian's troubles. Just to talk about Marilyn that way or even Mike (who wrote lyrics about Loren's wife?) is just sad. We weren't there but it's not so black and white ever in life.

[Mikie]

Code:

My understanding was that Brian started smoking pot around the beginning of the Today sessions in late 1964. Marilyn found a shoebox with dope in it on the table in their apartment and confronted him. She and Murry were pissed at him. But I didn't think Brian dropped acid unti 1965. He said himself he wrote California Girls while on acid. And right around that time in early March of '65, if you listen closely to the Rhonda vocal sessions, you can hear Brian say, "Loren, can you get the guys?" So you know Loren was   around at that time.All I'm saying here is in the article that Loren says Brian did LSD as early as '64 - that seems a little early to me compared to what I've read elsewhere.

And yes, the undiluted acid that he took (Owsley) was very strong, especially to today's standards. But how many trips Brian took is still in question. He still seemed to function normally after '65 and '66. Unless he dropped it post '66, then I'm starting to agree with many on message boards through the years that have dropped acid who don't think the after-effects of the drug are what caused Brian brain damage. While it does react differently with various physical and psyques in different people, I'm just not sure anymore what the acid did to him. I've always thought that the acid is what messed him up (maybe even kicked in years after the fact), I just wonder now.

Brian wasn't forced to do acid (or pot). He really wanted to. And notice he hasn't blamed anyone for his drug problems but himself. He was a very willing participant, and Loren Schwartz wasn't the only source of LSD in L.A. at the time - if Brian didn't get it from him, he would have found it from somebody else. Like at a party on Cielo Drive....

[ontor pertawst]

I think Loren comes off bad. He has a twisted view on things and seems to be trying to blame everyone but the few "hipsters" he was also friends with for Brian's troubles. Just to talk about Marilyn that way or even Mike (who wrote lyrics about Loren's wife?) is just sad. We weren't there but it's not so black and white ever in life.

So if it isn't black and white ever in life, extend that thinking to Mr. Loren here and look at it from his aged hipster shoes. Sure LSD is "walking with the King" as Hunter Thompson called it, but emotionally traumatic experiences in your 20s tend to be the sort of thing that trigger schizophrenia and similar stuff. If it wasn't playing the riff of California Girls endlessly whilst fried on lysergic, it would've been something else. A breakdown, a breakup, etc. He wasn't exactly Mr Sane predrugs, so you can understand Daro feeling more than a bit pissed at authors and lazy journalists blaming him and his yes, hilariously dated pretensions at a Steinien salon for causing Brian to crack up.

... and you're telling me you don't understand the dynamic with conspiratorial new best friends/drug buddies and girlfriends/wives? This is S.O.P. -- he does look tacky decades later complaining about it, but it's not like he hasn't been attacked as well. And who knows what was said in private.

Fun albeit disturbing gossip... and yeah, a thoroughly mixed, decidedly un-black and white bag.

[MBE]

I think Loren comes off bad. He has a twisted view on things and seems to be trying to blame everyone but the few "hipsters" he was also friends with for Brian's troubles. Just to talk about Marilyn that way or even Mike (who wrote lyrics about Loren's wife?) is just sad. We weren't there but it's not so black and white ever in life.

So if it isn't black and white in real life, extend that thinking to Mr. Loren here and look at it from his aged hipster shoes. Sure LSD is "walking with the King" as Hunter Thompson called it, but emotionally traumatic experiences in your 20s tend to be the sort of thing that trigger schizophrenia and similar stuff. If it wasn't playing the riff of California Girls endlessly whilst fried on lysergic, it would've been something else. A breakdown, a breakup, etc. He wasn't exactly Mr Sane predrugs, so you can understand Daro feeling more than a bit pissed at authors and lazy journalists blaming him and his yes, hilariously dated pretensions at a Steinien salon for causing Brian to crack up.

... and you're telling me you don't understand the dynamic with conspiratorial new best friends/drug buddies and girlfriends/wives? This is S.O.P.

I never have blamed him for it, Brian chose to take drugs and that's the end of it. Still I don't think putting others down makes you look better. Quite the opposite which is all I have ever said for those to this day try to make us think that the mean evil Beach Boys are trying to steal Brian's soul.

[guitarfool2002]

I think Loren comes off bad. He has a twisted view on things and seems to be trying to blame everyone but the few "hipsters" he was also friends with for Brian's troubles. Just to talk about Marilyn that way or even Mike (who wrote lyrics about Loren's wife?) is just sad. We weren't there but it's not so black and white ever in life.

This could be true, but if you flip it over you'll have a situation where one guy is being blamed for the subsequent decades of problems, in some cases years after he was out of the picture, while other members of the family and the other circles of friends were there in the aftermath and saw the same man in question nearly die several times from abuse and over-consumption.

Not saying there is no blame to go around, but maybe the article is coming from someone who was made a scapegoat for decades for far more than actually happened.

I just realized too that proof of the blame/scapegoat issue can be found in that whitewash of a biography that was shown on ABC television in two parts.

The era of Pet Sounds and Smile was shown in such a false, cartoonishly untrue way yet some people might still believe some of the scenes shown there. Take note of the Loren/Van Dyke caricatures when watching. I could see where people portrayed that way might be just a bit upset even years later.

[Mikie]

Notice the spelling of "Terry Satchen" in the article. All of the label credits say "Sachen". Sachen helped write "Hang Onto Your Ego", didn't he? Supposedly a reference to an LSD trip? I read that somewhere. Wasn't that the reason the lyrics were changed? Mike Love objected and said something about it being Brian's drug music? I forgot.

[ontor pertawst]

Yeah, but the other folks sure throw some acid and bile around too, huh? Nobody looks entirely classy here.

Whatever his influence, putting Tony Asher in his orbit sure makes up for a million barbs and bullsh*t!

If it's really him, somebody needs to poke him with a stick and ask some more questions if he's feeling chatty. Why not? If it's not him, let's see how Andy Kaufman it gets. To the email!

[I. Spaceman]

I just realized too that proof of the blame/scapegoat issue can be found in that whitewash of a biography that was shown on ABC television in two parts.

The era of Pet Sounds and Smile was shown in such a false, cartoonishly untrue way yet some people might still believe some of the scenes shown there. Take note of the Loren/Van Dyke caricatures when watching. I could see where people portrayed that way might be just a bit upset even years later.

Beautiful Dreamer is just as much of a whitewash, but with different heroes.

[Doo Dah]

Not even close.

There's a big difference between bias and/or embellishment versus flat out character assassination.

[guitarfool2002]

Code:

My understanding was that Brian started smoking pot around the Today sessions in late 1964. Marilyn found a shoebox with dope in it on the table in their apartment and confronted him. She and Murry were pissed at him. But I didn't think Brian dropped acid unti 1965. He said himself he wrote California Girls while on acid. And right around that time in early March of '65, if you listen closely to the Rhonda vocal sessions, you can hear Brian say, "Loren, can you get the guys?" So you know Loren was   around at that time.All I'm saying here is in the article that Loren says Brian did LSD as early as '64 - that seems a little early to me compared to what I've read elsewhere.

And yes, the undiluted acid that he took (Owsley) was very strong, especially to today's standards. But how many trips Brian took is still in question. He still seemed to function normally after '65 and '66. Unless he dropped it post '66, then I'm starting to agree with many on message boards through the years that have dropped acid who don't think the after-effects of the drug are what caused Brian brain damage. While it does react differently with various physical and psyques in different people, I'm just not sure anymore what the acid did to him. I've always thought that the acid is what messed him up (maybe even kicked in years after the fact), I just wonder now.

Brian wasn't forced to do acid (or pot). He really wanted to. And notice he hasn't blamed anyone for his drug problems but himself. He was a very willing participant, and Loren Schwartz wasn't the only source of LSD in L.A. at the time - if Brian didn't get it from him, he would have found it from somebody else. Like at a party on Cielo Drive....

This is a good post worth reviewing. The last paragraph is especially valid: No one forced him to do it. If we believe the story, Brian was *asking* for it. Now here is the scenario:

LSD was legal until well into 1966. The most pure LSD was coming from the "official" Sandoz labs, in liquid form which could be dispensed in specific doses, mostly at that time onto sugar cubes. Owsley enters the picture as one of those scary genius/mad scientist types who among many hats he wore was that of a chemist, audio engineer, etc. So he found a way to formulate LSD close to if not more pure than that coming from Sandoz (less frequently by the year), and along with chemist friends he set up labs where he would make it and sell it. Eventually he found a way to make it into a capsule or pill form containing a specific dose, and got equipment to make his own pills for sale to the various distributors who would buy his stuff. These are the origins of the names "Blue Cheer", "Purple Haze", "Orange Sunshine", "Blue Barrels", etc...it was the LSD in capsules being produced by Owsley, and the early capsules looked more like barrels due to the crude pill machine process, hence the name.

Sandoz LSD was the liquid kind found in vials and dispensed with an eye-dropper, and was beginning to dry up in areas like SF and LA when Owsley stepped into the scene. Owsley had liquid and pill forms coming out of the lab(s), his supply traveling back and forth in luggage going to various bus terminals to avoid detection, and the street issue of how much of a dosage to get the effect was still an issue and the results of too much or of the incorrect dosage could be tragic.

Back to 1965-66: It is still a legal drug, yet there are reports of houses being robbed around Hollywood because word got out there was a vial of Sandoz being kept there - typical celebrity/Hollywood Babylon stuff that would later play out in public with Sharon Tate. So you have a friend who wants to experience the drug, and is going around (supposedly) asking for it. As an entertainment biz kind of guy, an agent/press agent whatever, your job is to cater to the whims of your clients.

Watch Mad Men last night? Joan basically got pimped out to a car dealer in an attempt to win an account with Jaguar. It was a devastating episode, but that's all about large sums of money and power. Naturally.

So you have clients who like to drink and gamble, find them an after-hours speakeasy and casino in the back room. You have clients who enjoy hookers, find a brothel. You are an agent in LA in 1965, you have clients who smoke weed, you know where to get good weed - David Crosby knows. Clients who enjoy acid, you know where to get that too.

It's part of that game. Mad Men is fiction, Entourage is fiction, all the stories out there about the Sunset Strip scene - but the fiction comes from some measure of truth. An agent or rep wasn't necessarily a pusher if he/she knew where to get what a client was asking for, legal or not. More often not...

So your friend says I want to try LSD, you know what is good and bad and who is selling some potentially dangerous stuff around the area that isn't controlled, but you know where to get Owsley's "Blue Cheer" or whatever it was called at the time, and you know you can control the experience so your friend doesn't wind up wandering around naked in traffic at 1 AM...you know he'll try it no matter what, and you can possibly ensure a "safe" experience compared to what else may be out there under less controlled situations.

Do you do it?

It would also be naive to think the music circles especially in LA and even more in San Francisco were not saturated with the LSD influence, and the whole sub-culture surrounding it. Watch Monterey Pop, notice the "STP" auto fuel additive sticker on David Crosby's Gibson guitar...was Crosby advertising a fuel additive, or was he a gearhead? No way: STP was a potent form of LSD with a methamphetamine component which didn't turn out as well. STP was also connected to at least one of those friends murdered alongside Sharon Tate by the Manson clan. All of the songs, the sly references, the imagery...

It stands to reason someone in the Los Angeles music scene between 1964 and 1968 would have had ample opportunity to try LSD, if they were determined to try it, and would be able to find it easily. If the choice was your friend going to someone shady, or getting something known to be of a high quality - assuming they were going to do it soon no matter what, again which would you choose?

Disclaimer: I'm in no way advocating or taking sides or doing anything of the sort, but this past year I have read some very fascinating, very in-depth histories on these topics and specifically Owsley and the history of the drug back to Sandoz, especially how it tied into the mid 60's music world...as pure interest in history and the people/dates/places. nothing more or less than that.

[Sheriff John Stone]

Is there anything in the story that we haven't heard before? I think the only "new" thing is IJWMFTT being about/influenced by Loren, but it's nice to hear it all from his angle. Sure, he could have been more diplomatic about Marilyn, but personally I don't have a problem with the man.

I'm with Loaf on this one. This is just more of Mike Love was bad/argued with Brian, Marilyn was actively trying to get Brian away from "the drainers", and Brian composed his most creative music while under the influence of drugs.

Have we ever seen any other stories about the meaning of IJWMFTT that would contradict Daro? Couldn't "Good Vibrations", the title, be a reference to Audree and dogs, but the true inspiration be a real-life lady?

I think Loren Schwartz first became "the villain" when David Leaf published his book 35 years ago? Maybe Leaf tried to give Schwartz, now Daro, a chance to explain himself in Beautiful Dreamer. Well, we know how THAT turned out. Daro probably has read/heard the flak, doesn't give a crap anymore, and just feels like talking. If you don't believe him, fine. Dismiss him. But, I'm not quick to call it a bunch of fiction either. We had this discussion recently on another thread. Who are you gonna believe anymore? Brian, Joe Thomas, Marilyn Wilson, Bruce Johnston, Loren Daro?

The one area where I completely disagree with Daro is Brian faking mental illness. As somebody else posted, Brian - no matter how good he could fake things - would've been exposed very quickly in a hospital setting if he attempted that. And, I mean, just look at the guy (Brian). Yeah, Daro can claim, if it makes him feel better, that the specific LSD dosage and consequent drugs that he furnished to Brian didn't cause the future problems. But, if I so much as contributed one drug to Brian - ever - and saw what subsequently happened to Brian, I would feel guilt, not defensive or dismissive.

Oh, BTW, Loren Scwartz received a Master's Degree from U.C.L.A. in 1960.

EDIT: The Diane thing...Didn't Tony Asher discuss in an interview his feelings about Brian's personal life, and saying something like (and I'm paraphrasing), "Why did he get married anyway..." Apparently Brian was telling Tony all kinds of things about his inner feelings about women in his life. And, is Diane younger or older than Marilyn? Marilyn met Brian in 1963 when she was 15 or 16. So, how old was Diane then? 13 or 14? Jeez....Whole lot of shakin' goin' on!

[endofposts]

I can't find anything particularly laudable about Daro.  He was a pencil pusher in an entertainment agency, no matter how much of a psuedo-intellectual he was (and having an advanced degree doesn't mean he's not of the psuedo variety), or who he introduced Brian to (and there are stories that he didn't introduce Brian to either Asher or Parks, they all just happened to run in similar circles).  He never wrote or produced anything in the arts, he just hung out with people who did.  His ratting out Terry Satchen is an attempt to make Brian's family largely responsible for his problems, because  Terry is a cousin just like Mike Love is a cousin.  He doesn't deserve the attention he's gotten in the bios, or the documentaries, or "American Family," or this latest blog post.  He may be right that he's not that influential in the direction of Brian's life.  He mostly got attention because he was unintentionally humorous. If you change your name due to the influence of numerology, that can happen.  

[Sheriff John Stone]

I can't find anything particularly laudable about Daro.  

I don't think anyone is singing his praises or defending him. The discussion is basically centered around whether what he wrote is fiction or non-fiction.

True, Schwartz/Daro didn't write the music or play the instruments (although he was a folk singer in his earlier days), but he was AROUND during 1965-66, and that makes him a person of interest. That period is among the most fascinating, the most discussed, and whenever somebody from that period speaks, it will get attention. Just the fact - if it is a fact - that he was integral in hooking Brian up with BOTH Tony Asher and Van Dyke Parks makes him a part of Beach Boys' history.

[runnersdialzero]

We've known Brian was interested in Diane before Marilyn for some time now. In fact, I don't think there's any "new" info here aside from the allegations that Brian was faking mental illness, which is a line of bullsh*t. I'm not gonna say the guy never exaggerated it to others in his life, I really don't know, but faking it outright? Come on.

I guess there's also the bit about who certain lyrics were about. I'd find it odd that Brian would lie for decades, saying "I Just Wasn't Made For These Times" wasn't about himself, but about a friend. What purpose would it serve?

So yeah. It wouldn't be difficult for even one of us who've been attentive to information over the years to post this.

[SG7]

If this was really him, I don't think this helps his image that much.

[Mikie]

Right on, Guitarfool. And regarding Crosby, you KNOW what he was talking about with that STP sticker on his guitar. Saw CSN live a few years ago and he called himself a human waste dump. But after all the acid and other drugs he did, he isn't a vegetable, nor does he show signs of brain disfunctinality. He's still on top of his game with no evidence of schizo or other obvious brain abnormalities. Let me know if I'm wrong.

I also don't agree with Daro suggesting that Brian was feigning breakdowns and mental illness. Docs would have put that to rest quickly. Yeah, he wanted to stay home and write and with the reclusiveness in the late 60's and early 70's and recruiting Landy, well, the Wilson families know the truth about that. Brian was seeing doctors and admitted to hospitals as far back as 1968. Daro's comments here compromise the integrity of his article a little bit right there.

[runnersdialzero]

nor does he show signs of brain disfunctinality. He's still on top of his game with no evidence of schizo or other obvious brain abnormalities. Let me know if I'm wrong.

No one of sound mind would wear their hair like that, especially in combination with that moustache.