15 Big Ones album: Critical standing over time

[b00ts]

When 15 Big Ones was released, it was widely considered the nadir of the group's recorded output. As I started getting into The Beach Boys in the mid-1990s, it seemed like everything I read about the album was universally negative, moreso than KTSA or BB85, both of which I find to be weaker albums than 15BO.

A lot of this no doubt had to do with the group's commercial ambitions at this time. After a concerted stab at artistic expression with Holland, they were once again looking to mine the California lifestyle for hits. The amount of covers on the album didn't help either, and I'd imagine that many fans viewed the "Brian's Back" campaign as a cynical cash grab.

Regardless, 15 Big Ones seems to have a better reputation nowadays than it did in the mid-1990s when I was getting into the group. Paired with Beach Boys Love You on the CD twofer, it seems innocuous at worst, and the production is similar to Love You, with Brian's synths and quirky vocal arrangements.

Of course, as with many spidoes in Beach Boys history, it is easy to think of what could have been released instead, and to rue the fact that we have 15 Big Ones instead of a definitive musical statement by Brian. Luckily, Brian gave us a personal statement one year later with Love You.

What are your feelings about 15 Big Ones? Do you think it ranks above MIU, L.A., KTSA, BB85? For the old school fans, have your views on 15BO evolved over the years?

[Ron]

I think it's definately better than those you mentioned, but it just has so many strange, head scratching moments that it's hard for me not to skip a bunch of tracks while I listen to it.  Part of it, though, was a 'victim of the time'... a lot of songs/albums from that time period are strange and head scratching by any artist.

For instance, why do a cover of "Rock & Roll Music" if you don't have anything good to add to it, since it's already been done perfectly by Chuck Berry, and then amazingly, later improved upon by John Lennon.  There was no way to cover that song and have it be even decent compared to Chuck's or the Beatles version, but yet THEY STILL TRIED IT. 

[Jon Stebbins]

Well yeah, people's opinions of it improved due to the poor BB's albums released after it. But compared to Holland or Pacific Ocean Blue it sucks. And the real problem with it is that it was highly anticipated because of the long wait since Holland, because of the Beach Boys growing popularity, and because of Brian's much hyped return to studio. The music world had its ear pointed toward the Beach Boys in a way that it never would again...and the album made a lot of people feel burned and embarrassed. But other than that Its OK.

[hypehat]

Does it actually have ANY critical standing nowadays? I mean, I would only willingly listen to 15 Big Ones because of Had To Phone Ya, and because I'm a Beach Boys fan, and listening to their bad records is what I like to do at times. But does anyone outside of Beach Boys fandom actually rate it?  

[BillA]

I find I listen to the album a lot these days though it is a guilty pleasure.

I bought the album on the first day it was available and my reaction then sums up what I believe to be the problems with the record:

1. The production was unlike anything Brian had done before at a time that called for a classic Beach Boy sound.  To me, Brian's genius was that he made complex records with a subtle touch.  15BO is too dense - There is too much of a "wall of sound" and I never cared for the moog. 

2. The deteriation of Brian's and Dennis' voices.

What was needed was another Sunflower (which if released in 1976 instead of 1970 would have sold 10 million copies).

[mammy blue]

To me, Love You was the real "Brian is Back" album. Big Ones was just the warmup. "Had to Phone Ya" is a complete gem though.... as good as anything on Love You.... and there are of course minor classics like "It's OK" and "That Same Song" (although I prefer the gospel version on the Michaels doc).

Infamously, it was Brian who cast the tie vote (with Mike and Al) to rush release this oldies hodge podge, rather than spending a little more time to release something more substantial. Dennis and Carl bitterly dissented, just as they would later with MIU. By the Light Album, Carl seems to be on board and is writing more again. Dennis contributed some Bambu material for LA but his disillusionment never seemed to pass.

[Ron]

As much as I like the original tunes, sometimes I wonder if they wouldn't have been better served to just stick to the plan, and make it a cover album, and save the originals for the next album....   

[Wirestone]

Wonderful topic. I believe 15 Big Ones is slowly growing in the estimation of fans, possibly because it is -- whatever else one thinks about it -- authentically a Brian Wilson production, and one with distinct charms. That being said --

Does it actually have ANY critical standing nowadays? I mean, I would only willingly listen to 15 Big Ones because of Had To Phone Ya, and because I'm a Beach Boys fan, and listening to their bad records is what I like to do at times. But does anyone outside of Beach Boys fandom actually rate it?  

I think the answer to this is no. But then, no one critically rates any Beach Boys albums other than Pet Sounds, Smile and Holland. Possibly Sunflower. Certifiable fan classics like Friends and Wild Honey are not really on anybody's radar anymore, because the band is thought of as a singles act. And forget about Summer Days or Surfer Girl. My point is, almost all BB albums are criminally underestimated in critical circles.

But back to 15BO. I think someone here suggested that it sounds like a mixtape made for male strippers, which is hilarious and kind of true. There's that weird hyper-masculinity about it, and it really sounds like Brian is trying too hard. This is a man whose best music just seems to flow out of him -- and on this album, it all seems kind of erratic and difficult and sludgy.

And yet. "Rock and Roll Music" was a huge -- and deserved -- hit. I never understand why people badmouth this song -- it's a simple, dumb arrangement, but it's cool. It's different. And it updates the Beach Boys' sound by going back to their origins. A neat trick. The single mix is essential, though. The album take sounds like cardboard. And "It's Okay" is a great retro rocker, again with a cool if simple arrangement, and nice vocals from Mike and Dennis. Ditto for "Phone Ya." And I have a huge soft spot for "That Same Song," even though the performance is the very definition of slapdash.

The covers are more mixed, but stuff like "Just Once in My Life" is awesome, and "Palisades Park" revives the Wrecking Crew sound. "Blueberry Hill" has that haunting intro. And as turgid as they may be, I find the dashed-off-in-an-hour quality of songs like "In the Still of the Night" and "Chapel of Love" compelling in a "I can't believe they did this!" kind of way.

So it's a mess, yes, both conceptually and in terms of performance and production. But there are ideas all over the place. Brian is trying too hard, but he is trying. And it's one of the few latter-day albums where the guys play practically all the instruments. The solution, I've always felt, is that 15BO needs to be dramatically expanded -- into two or three disks. Have the first disc be the original album, along with single mixes and live takes as bonus tracks. Then have the second disc gather up all the oldies Brian cut -- there are a lot -- and offer alternate versions of the oldies that made the album. The third disc should have the original material cut for the record, including some of the awesome instrumental tracks that have surfaced since then. There was so much cool music being made at the time, and 15BO is only the tip of a much bigger, more aesthetically pleasing iceberg.

[Ron]

Palisades park is a highlight for me. 

The "Run, Run, Runnin'... all the Rides are Runnin" backup vocals are brilliant imho.  I'm not aware of that being on any previous versions of the song.  The lead vocal is really hot too. 

[MBE]

It's the last album (until maybe the new one) where everyone seemed to be working on every track together. LY didn't have Mike and Al much, MIU not much Carl or Dennis, LA no Brian, KTSA almost no Dennis, 85 Mike wasn't around often, SC often recorded apart with Mike working much more than the others, SIP ditto -Brian. S&S not really a Beach Boys album as such. 

[Wirestone]

It's the last album (until maybe the new one) where everyone seemed to be working on every track together. LY didn't have Mike and Al much, MIU not much Carl or Dennis, LA no Brian, KTSA almost no Dennis, 85 Mike wasn't around often, SC often recorded apart with Mike working much more than the others, SIP ditto -Brian. S&S not really a Beach Boys album as such. 

I suspect -- and this is only a suspicion -- that nearly all of the new album was written and recorded by Brian before the other guys had anything to do with it. Mike may have written a few lyrics, and he's contributed a song he wrote himself, but I suspect this is a solo BW album with BB voices.

Not that I'm saying that's a bad thing! But it certainly sounds less collaborative than the earlier buzz had it.

[Runaways]

I think the answer to this is no. But then, no one critically rates any Beach Boys albums other than Pet Sounds, Smile and Holland. Possibly Sunflower. Certifiable fan classics like Friends and Wild Honey are not really on anybody's radar anymore, because the band is thought of as a singles act. And forget about Summer Days or Surfer Girl. My point is, almost all BB albums are criminally underestimated in critical circles.

huh bu wuh??  i'm fairly certain both sunflower and today have landed on rolling stone's 500 greatest albums of all time.  Today has a 5 star rating on allmusic.com.  Smiley Smile has a 9.5 rating on pitchfork.com.  Saying Holland is rated critically higher than Sunflower is baffling too, most people reference sunflower first when talking of non-pet sounds albums. a lot of musicians nowadays are listening to the beach boys music, so i don't really understand this sentiment.  This seems less untrue today than like 15 years ago. 

in regards to 15 big ones, i don't think it deserves any good critical standing.  it's a pure dud. 

[Wirestone]

I think the answer to this is no. But then, no one critically rates any Beach Boys albums other than Pet Sounds, Smile and Holland. Possibly Sunflower. Certifiable fan classics like Friends and Wild Honey are not really on anybody's radar anymore, because the band is thought of as a singles act. And forget about Summer Days or Surfer Girl. My point is, almost all BB albums are criminally underestimated in critical circles.

huh bu wuh??  i'm fairly certain both sunflower and today have landed on rolling stone's 500 greatest albums of all time.  Today has a 5 star rating on allmusic.com.  Smiley Smile has a 9.5 rating on pitchfork.com.  Saying Holland is rated critically higher than Sunflower is baffling too, most people reference sunflower first when talking of non-pet sounds albums. a lot of musicians nowadays are listening to the beach boys music, so i don't really understand this sentiment.  This seems less untrue today than like 15 years ago.  

in regards to 15 big ones, i don't think it deserves any good critical standing.  it's a pure dud.  

None of those things you mention have anything to do with whether anyone actually owns those albums, or whether they are part of the mainstream critical discourse. A couple of entries in a list of 500 albums? Allmusic? A random rating from Pitchfork? The citations in and of themselves are proof of how obscure those albums are.

Now, things may be different for the British. But I would say that in the U.S., in talking to my music nerd friends, the only BB albums anyone has heard of are Pet Sounds and Smile. Full stop.

Edit: And anyway, much of this is a matter of personal opinion and difficult to prove either way. I accept that there are critics who are knowledgeable about the group's entire output. Back to 15B0.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Here's the deal with 15 BO...Brian wasn't ready, and his voice was shot. But, they needed a "Produced by Brian Wilson" credit, right? Well, as much as I've always felt bands should be honest with their fans...in this case they should've lied their asses off. Or, at least, cheat. How?

 Well, there were a lot of Brian tracks in the can that they could've used.  Good Time, Games Two Can Play, and When Girls Get Together were released on subsequent albums, after the world already knew Brian's voice had changed! Here, they could've been used to hide his vocal decline, and could've had instrumental overdubs to make them sound more current. Keep Susie Cincinnati (a Sunflower era recording, anyway), It's Ok, Everyone's in Love with You, and Rock n Roll Music. Angel Come Home dated from the earliest sessions, and Good Timin' was also partially completed by that point. 'Mony Mony' rocked harder than any of the released oldies, and the heavy synth might have gone over. The others (esp. Mike) had songs that could've been used as well.  None of these tracks would clue the fans in that Brian's voice had changed. It would've sounded disjointed, but then again so did what we got instead. The public would've been none the wiser, and probably would've liked the album better.

[Jaspy]

I'll open my heart for you and offer my honest first impression of the 15 BIG ONES/LOVE YOU-twofer (yes, the 2-fers introduced me to the BB catalog):

I thought, that must have been the absolute low point for this group. How could they release something as terrible as this? And was I surprised to find out that LY is one of many fan's favorite BB albums? Yes, I was. I'm even surprised today.
Ok, there are a couple of tracks I learned to like, some even to love, but all in all, production-wise and performance-wise, only hardcore fans can love albums like that IMO.
I know that I'll probably lose all of my BB facebook-friends now.

[Dave Modny]

As much as I like the original tunes, sometimes I wonder if they wouldn't have been better served to just stick to the plan, and make it a cover album, and save the originals for the next album....  

That's actually what I kind of did with my own "home made" version of 15 BOs: Removed the "new" tunes, removed "Susie Cincinnati" (which I always liked, but which sticks out like a sore thumb in that setting), and then added some of the unreleased oldies from the sessions to it --  making it truly "15 Big Oldies" (e.g. "Sea Cruise," "Shake, Rattle and Roll," "'Mony Mony," etc.).

I then moved the originals that I liked from it it over to my home made version of Love You  -- which I actually think benefits from some of the more fleshed out, fully-cooked numbers like "Had To Phone You" and "It's OK," mixed in with the quirkiness of the better LY tracks. Gives the album a whole different vibe. It also allowed me to get rid of "Love Is A Woman" and "Let's Put Our Hearts Together"....which I always hated. The only strange byproduct is that it now becomes an album with a large Mike Love presence. I also cheated ever-so-slightly and moved "My Diane" back over to LY (and knocked off "Good Time" for the same reason as "Susie").

(Unfortunately, 15 BOs still pretty much pales -- "modified" or not...lol)


Rearranging late '70s BBs albums can be fun.

[Cabinessenceking]

I think it's definately better than those you mentioned, but it just has so many strange, head scratching moments that it's hard for me not to skip a bunch of tracks while I listen to it.  Part of it, though, was a 'victim of the time'... a lot of songs/albums from that time period are strange and head scratching by any artist.

For instance, why do a cover of "Rock & Roll Music" if you don't have anything good to add to it, since it's already been done perfectly by Chuck Berry, and then amazingly, later improved upon by John Lennon.  There was no way to cover that song and have it be even decent compared to Chuck's or the Beatles version, but yet THEY STILL TRIED IT. 

The single version was better than the album version, you can really heard that moog. Dennis or Carl should've sung it, not Mike. They came close to pulling it off.

[Waspinators]

I can't be the only one on here who absolutely loves Back Home, Chapel of Love and In the Still of the Night, can I?

[MBE]

Here's the deal with 15 BO...Brian wasn't ready, and his voice was shot. But, they needed a "Produced by Brian Wilson" credit, right? Well, as much as I've always felt bands should be honest with their fans...in this case they should've lied their asses off. Or, at least, cheat. How?

 Well, there were a lot of Brian tracks in the can that they could've used.  Good Time, Games Two Can Play, and When Girls Get Together were released on subsequent albums, after the world already knew Brian's voice had changed! Here, they could've been used to hide his vocal decline, and could've had instrumental overdubs to make them sound more current. Keep Susie Cincinnati (a Sunflower era recording, anyway), It's Ok, Everyone's in Love with You, and Rock n Roll Music. Angel Come Home dated from the earliest sessions, and Good Timin' was also partially completed by that point. 'Mony Mony' rocked harder than any of the released oldies, and the heavy synth might have gone over. The others (esp. Mike) had songs that could've been used as well.  None of these tracks would clue the fans in that Brian's voice had changed. It would've sounded disjointed, but then again so did what we got instead. The public would've been none the wiser, and probably would've liked the album better.

That would have worked to a point, but they were making the TV show, he was coming back to the stage. Since this was an all out media frenzy it would have been hard to hide for long. It would have made the album better for sure though.

[MBE]

I'll open my heart for you and offer my honest first impression of the 15 BIG ONES/LOVE YOU-twofer (yes, the 2-fers introduced me to the BB catalog):

I thought, that must have been the absolute low point for this group. How could they release something as terrible as this? And was I surprised to find out that LY is one of many fan's favorite BB albums? Yes, I was. I'm even surprised today.
Ok, there are a couple of tracks I learned to like, some even to love, but all in all, production-wise and performance-wise, only hardcore fans can love albums like that IMO.
I know that I'll probably lose all of my BB facebook-friends now.

I've never been a Love You fan but I haven't been tied to the stake yet!

[MBE]

I can't be the only one on here who absolutely loves Back Home, Chapel of Love and In the Still of the Night, can I?

Actually I do love Back Home, not thrilled on Chapel, but In The Still Of The Night isn't half bad if not a performance I "love".

[Kirk]

It's hard for me to separate my awareness of what a letdown 15 BO was with the 11 year old who used to listen to the 8 track of it in the backseat of his parents' Grand Prix. As silly as this sounds, the album was sorta scary to me in 76-77. I mean, those freaky synths on "TM Song," Brian's nutty countervocal on "Chapel of Love," the whooshing "strings" toward the end of "That Same Song." Yes, I led a sheltered life. Lord knows I'd have been institutionalized if I'd been exposed to Metal Machine Music. But I think I was becoming aware in this period that adults weren't always in control of their lives, and there was something unhinged to the music that made me think adulthood was this ... weird. I could sense if not see that same uncomfortable oddity in the lives of many parents' family and friends---people turning thirty who started living second adolescences, overworking their youth, trying too hard to have fun and be wild. I think every adult man I knew in this period grew a mustache. My dad had a red leisure suit he wore with a white turtleneck. He looked like a pimp Santa Claus. But that's what 15 BO is for me: a red leisure suit. Thank God MIU came a couple of years later to assure me it was okay to be a middle-aged 13 year old.

Nowadays? 15 BO tends to be the CD I mow the lawn to. My neighbor once told me, "You look way too happy when you're mowing."

[Dave Modny]

It's hard for me to separate my awareness of what a letdown 15 BO was with the 11 year old who used to listen to the 8 track of it in the backseat of his parents' Grand Prix. As silly as this sounds, the album was sorta scary to me in 76-77. I mean, those freaky synths on "TM Song," Brian's nutty countervocal on "Chapel of Love," the whooshing "strings" toward the end of "That Same Song." Yes, I led a sheltered life. Lord knows I'd have been institutionalized if I'd been exposed to Metal Machine Music. But I think I was becoming aware in this period that adults weren't always in control of their lives, and there was something unhinged to the music that made me think adulthood was this ... weird. I could sense if not see that same uncomfortable oddity in the lives of many parents' family and friends---people turning thirty who started living second adolescences, overworking their youth, trying too hard to have fun and be wild. I think every adult man I knew in this period grew a mustache. My dad had a red leisure suit he wore with a white turtleneck. He looked like a pimp Santa Claus. But that's what 15 BO is for me: a red leisure suit. Thank God MIU came a couple of years later to assure me it was okay to be a middle-aged 13 year old.

Nowadays? 15 BO tends to be the CD I mow the lawn to. My neighbor once told me, "You look way too happy when you're mowing."

As someone who was also eleven when 15 BOs came out, my experience was vaguely similar. That is, at the time, I was pretty much oblivious to the disappointment I would develop for this album in the ensuing years. I actually remember listening to the radio for five hours on New Years Eve, and the Casey Kasem, end-of-year countdown, just so I could tape Rock 'N' Roll Music when it finally appeared (on my trusty 8-track recorder of course)!

When I finally got the album around that time, the two things I also remember: 1) How I thought TM Song was the most bizarre thing I'd ever heard, and 2) how gruff, greasy and old -- both vocally and visually -- the Beach Boys sounded and appeared to me. As someone who was pretty much aurally attached to the sound of Endless Summer at the time, it was all quite shocking. Still, as noted, there was something charming about it all. It was a current album and, to the 11-year-old mind, the Beach Boys very much still seemed like a relevant, current band. Little did I know about the back-drama. Though, that would soon come into my mind as well.

Funny thing is...even though time and "musical sophistication" has robbed me of just about all the innocent affection for the record I felt at the time -- that is, I pretty much consider it the biggest dog in their 70's output -- I still really like Rock 'N' Roll Music. Mike's insufferable, nasal vocal and all!



TM Song still sounds pretty freakin' bizarre, too.

[Autotune]

Palisades park is a highlight for me. 

The "Run, Run, Runnin'... all the Rides are Runnin" backup vocals are brilliant imho.  I'm not aware of that being on any previous versions of the song.  The lead vocal is really hot too. 

Yeah, although the song's key is a little too low for Carl to really shine, I think.

[Paul J B]

For those who had been there from the beginning, how big of a shock was it to hear what Brian's voice had become on 15BO's ? I had just become a fan 2 years prior with the Endless Summer release so I really did not know much about who was who. In hindsight, if I had grown up on Brian's voice and then purchased 15BO's I think I may have been devastated.