15 Big Ones album: Critical standing over time

[Runaways]

I think the answer to this is no. But then, no one critically rates any Beach Boys albums other than Pet Sounds, Smile and Holland. Possibly Sunflower. Certifiable fan classics like Friends and Wild Honey are not really on anybody's radar anymore, because the band is thought of as a singles act. And forget about Summer Days or Surfer Girl. My point is, almost all BB albums are criminally underestimated in critical circles.

huh bu wuh??  i'm fairly certain both sunflower and today have landed on rolling stone's 500 greatest albums of all time.  Today has a 5 star rating on allmusic.com.  Smiley Smile has a 9.5 rating on pitchfork.com.  Saying Holland is rated critically higher than Sunflower is baffling too, most people reference sunflower first when talking of non-pet sounds albums. a lot of musicians nowadays are listening to the beach boys music, so i don't really understand this sentiment.  This seems less untrue today than like 15 years ago.  

in regards to 15 big ones, i don't think it deserves any good critical standing.  it's a pure dud.  

None of those things you mention have anything to do with whether anyone actually owns those albums, or whether they are part of the mainstream critical discourse. A couple of entries in a list of 500 albums? Allmusic? A random rating from Pitchfork? The citations in and of themselves are proof of how obscure those albums are.

then what are you talking about when you talk about critical circles?  allmusic.com reviews are what people see when they scan an album at barnes and noble, not that obscure.  a random rating at pitchfork? opposed to a non random rating?  do you know what pitchfork is?  not exactly a small website, they have their own music festival.  And yeah a couple entries in ROLLING STONE'S 500 greatest, not exactly "obscure".  and yeah what i said has nothing to do with whether people own the album, but neither does what you originally said

[Wirestone]

Allmusic reviews practically everything released. Has  nothing to do with how well an album is known. Pitchfork was simply reviewing the re-releases back in 2000. In each case, the fact of the review -- however good it is -- has nothing to do with how widely the album is known.  Sunflower, by any objective measure, is an incredibly obscure album. When is the last time you've seen it in a store? I can tell you when -- one week in 2000. IIRC, it has sold fewer copies than any BB album besides SIP. No album that is so hard to find and so low selling is part of any serious, broad critical conversation.

Yes, fans of the band know about it. And folks in the UK. But outside of the BB bubble, it's the definition of obscure. Compare it to any Beatles album. Or any RS record. Hell, any album by the BeeGees.

[Dave Modny]

The thing is...that even amidst the stench of those well-worn oldies, lies glimpses of brilliance if one is willing to dig a little. For me, the "strings up" backing track of "Had To Phone Ya" that circulates is probably the closest example in the 70s of Brian nearly reaching what he was doing -- production and arrangement-wise -- in the previous decade. No hyperbole even needed with that one. There's a track that with, say, the vocals of 1969 layered over it would've been a real contender -- at least musically if not so much lyrically. IMHO.

[Disney Boy (1985)]

Allmusic reviews practically everything released. Has  nothing to do with how well an album is known. Pitchfork was simply reviewing the re-releases back in 2000. In each case, the fact of the review -- however good it is -- has nothing to do with how widely the album is known.  Sunflower, by any objective measure, is an incredibly obscure album. When is the last time you've seen it in a store? I can tell you when -- one week in 2000. IIRC, it has sold fewer copies than any BB album besides SIP. No album that is so hard to find and so low selling is part of any serious, broad critical conversation.

Yes, fans of the band know about it. And folks in the UK. But outside of the BB bubble, it's the definition of obscure. Compare it to any Beatles album. Or any RS record. Hell, any album by the BeeGees.

In the UK the BB's albums have a higher standing than in the US i think. Surf's Up has a very good reputation. UK music mag Mojo included Today!, Friends and Surf's Up in their Essential Albums book.

[lance]

I see 15 Big Ones as Brian blasting through a long-term artistic block. At least that's how it seems. If anybody has ever busted through a creative block, you will know that the results are usually poor at first, you're rusty. So it was necessary for Love You, just as 'I'm so Lonely"and Beach Boys 85 was necessary for Brian Wilson 88.

[Amanda Hart]

Imo the subject is a fine collection of mixed songs: ones of them are great and others - so-so. It is easier for me to name bad songs rather than good because mostly the record is pleasant to my ears. "Garbage" (sorry for roughness) songs are: Had To Phone Ya (makes me click a "skip" button), Palisades Park (not-so-good singing by Carl), Back Home (I like demo), In the Still of the Night (uninspiring and boring), Just Once In My Life (imo the worst cover they ever did). But even in those cuts I hear short beautiful moments, e.g. Al's tag in HTPY or organ solo in PP that sounds a bit like Amusement Parks USA's one.
So my point is The 15 Big Ones is quite a good quality record.  

I don't usually comment on people's personal tastes, but did you just call Had To Phone Ya garbage? Like Dave M. just said above me, that backing track is a real wonder. Find the All This Is That SOT boot that has the backing track on it. Hopefully it will give you a new appreciation of the song and not make you want to click skip. I also think it's an interesting track when you compare it to the Spring version, I would be really curious to learn about how it transformed. Maybe someone writing a song-by-song breakdown of the band will be able to enlighten us on this one in the future  Plus if you skip Had To Phone then you're left with Chapel of Love, which is only fun because of the crazy background vocals.

[Wirestone]

In the UK the BB's albums have a higher standing than in the US i think. Surf's Up has a very good reputation. UK music mag Mojo included Today!, Friends and Surf's Up in their Essential Albums book.

I think this is very true. And Beach Boys nuts (of which there are more than a few) have some touchstones too -- Friends and Love You among them.

[Mr. Cohen]

When I listen to 15 Big Ones, it reminds of "Right Back Where We Started From", which was a hit at almost the same time. The sentiment and production is quite similar. I think Brian had some good ideas with that album, but he was too scattered to pull it off. "It's OK" probably would've been a hit, but it fell a bit flat due to Brian's tendency to use too slow of a tempo on his rockers (see: "Marcella"). I mean, you gotta love listening to "It's OK" with headphones on and having Mike tickle your right ear with his somewhat creepy bass vocals.

"Had To Phone Ya" has that bizarre transition in the middle that shows Brian's occasionally ham-fisted approach to rhythm during this period, as best characterized by that outtake "Hey Pretty Mama" (or whatever it's  called). Such a demented, mechanical sense of rhythm!

"Everyone's In Love With You" is Mike's idea of heaven. Take that for what you will. I actually like the interplay of the different keyboard/string instruments.

"Talk To Me" is another "Right Back Where We Started From", but it has a druggy feel to it. That organ gives it a bit of funeral dirge feel, although the "Tallahassee Lassie" break is crazy cool, if random as hell.

"That Same Song" is cheesy and a bit bland. "TM Song" has such a mid-70s sound, kind of like "It's OK". Only 1975/76 could've birthed such a song.  The different breaks in the song are pretty effective, I think. People just hate it because it's about transcendental meditation, and Rolling Stone told you that ain't cool.

I'd review the rest of this album, but I'm bored with it. Which is probably the album's biggest problem. Songs like "Palisades Park" and "A Casual Look" are actually fairly professionally done, and evidence that this album isn't as sloppy as some try to make it out to be. But there is just nothing exciting about the covers. It just sounds like Brian practicing his skills.

[runnersdialzero]

A substantial amount of people actually dislike "Had To Phone Ya"? Damn . If there were ever a song that sounded like the stuff he was doing in the mid-60s after that period, it'd be that one, to me. The mix certainly undersold that a bit, but it's still plain as day when I listen to it.

[metal flake paint]

I mean, you gotta love listening to "It's OK" with headphones on and having Mike tickle your right ear with his somewhat creepy bass vocals.

Actually, Dennis provided those bass vocals.

[Dave Modny]

Imo the subject is a fine collection of mixed songs: ones of them are great and others - so-so. It is easier for me to name bad songs rather than good because mostly the record is pleasant to my ears. "Garbage" (sorry for roughness) songs are: Had To Phone Ya (makes me click a "skip" button), Palisades Park (not-so-good singing by Carl), Back Home (I like demo), In the Still of the Night (uninspiring and boring), Just Once In My Life (imo the worst cover they ever did). But even in those cuts I hear short beautiful moments, e.g. Al's tag in HTPY or organ solo in PP that sounds a bit like Amusement Parks USA's one.
So my point is The 15 Big Ones is quite a good quality record.  

I don't usually comment on people's personal tastes, but did you just call Had To Phone Ya garbage? Like Dave M. just said above me, that backing track is a real wonder. Find the All This Is That SOT boot that has the backing track on it. Hopefully it will give you a new appreciation of the song and not make you want to click skip. I also think it's an interesting track when you compare it to the Spring version, I would be really curious to learn about how it transformed. Maybe someone writing a song-by-song breakdown of the band will be able to enlighten us on this one in the future  Plus if you skip Had To Phone then you're left with Chapel of Love, which is only fun because of the crazy background vocals.

And...for anyone who hasn't heard that backing track, I'll link to it here. I'm without sound on my 'puter at the moment, but I'd reckon that this is the same "strings-up" mix that Amanda and I referred to.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDr2jZzirw4

[I. Spaceman]

15 Big Ones is fairly underrated, I think. It is definitely heading into Love You territory, and I think that is a good thing.

[Amanda Hart]

And...for anyone who hasn't heard that backing track, I'll link to it here. I'm without sound on my 'puter at the moment, but I'd reckon that this is the same "strings-up" mix that Amanda and I referred to.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDr2jZzirw4

That's the one. How can you not love the backing, especially around the "Come on, come on and answer the phone" part. Absolutely beautiful, thanks for posting.

[Slow In Brain]

The intro/argument of the TM Songs cracks me up. Just brilliant.

[Zach95]

Good 'ol Pitchfork gave it a 3.5 

[Emdeeh]

I love "Just Once in My Life" and "Back Home" is a lot of fun.

[Ron]

Thanks guys.  I've been walking around all day now with "Run Run Runnin, All the Rides are Runnin" looping in my head.  'Preciate that. 

[MBE]

I would love to Mike and Al on Mike Douglas in 1976. They did Everyone's In Love With You and TM Song around a piano. I once had a chance to trade for it and I never saw it offered again. Really cool missing video I would think.

[Alex]

When is the last time you've seen it in a store? I can tell you when -- one week in 2000. IIRC, it has sold fewer copies than any BB album besides SIP.

I bought my CD 2-fer copy in a Borders in '05. Also saw it in a mom and pop record store in '06. Unfortunately, had to order my Sunflower vinyl from Amazon.

[MBE]

Imo the subject is a fine collection of mixed songs: ones of them are great and others - so-so. It is easier for me to name bad songs rather than good because mostly the record is pleasant to my ears. "Garbage" (sorry for roughness) songs are: Had To Phone Ya (makes me click a "skip" button), Palisades Park (not-so-good singing by Carl), Back Home (I like demo), In the Still of the Night (uninspiring and boring), Just Once In My Life (imo the worst cover they ever did). But even in those cuts I hear short beautiful moments, e.g. Al's tag in HTPY or organ solo in PP that sounds a bit like Amusement Parks USA's one.
So my point is The 15 Big Ones is quite a good quality record.  

I don't usually comment on people's personal tastes, but did you just call Had To Phone Ya garbage? Like Dave M. just said above me, that backing track is a real wonder. Find the All This Is That SOT boot that has the backing track on it. Hopefully it will give you a new appreciation of the song and not make you want to click skip. I also think it's an interesting track when you compare it to the Spring version, I would be really curious to learn about how it transformed. Maybe someone writing a song-by-song breakdown of the band will be able to enlighten us on this one in the future  Plus if you skip Had To Phone then you're left with Chapel of Love, which is only fun because of the crazy background vocals.

I do review both versions in my book. I like the Spring version because it feels more adult to me, yet Amanda is right that the backing track of The Beach Boys version is very cool.  I think it's no more than the song just evolving from one group to another really. Wish the Beach Boys recording was from 1973 too as all but Al sounded far worse in 1976 than 1973.

[Amanda Hart]

I  Wish the Beach Boys recording was from 1973 too as all but Al sounded far worse in 1976 than 1973.

I actually think that Brian's more tattered vocals add something to the song. There is a tinge of desperation during his part at the end that takes the song to another level. It adds a deeper layer of emotion. I'm sure he still could have conveyed this with his sweeter early '70s voice, but I like the feel his rougher voice creates.

[b00ts]

I prefer the American Spring version of "Had To Phone Ya." The lyrics are depressed and somewhat dementedly manipulative. The narrator is calling a friend in the middle of the night because he has been weeping. The narrator wakes up his friend and harangues them for being the cause of this emotional distress. I think this is emblematic of the mental problems that affect people with severe depression and those around them, who must suffer through these mood swings along with the person afflicted.

In that sense, the Spring version is, perhaps unwittingly, brilliant in a lyrical sense. It encapsulates something about the human experience that I have not heard elsewhere. It engenders sympathy for the narrator, but perhaps moreso for the recipient of the middle-of-the-night phone call.

In contrast, the lyrics to the 15 Big Ones version are cleaned up and any trace of sadness is erased. It seems similar to the revised lyrics of "'Til I Die" which thankfully weren't used on the released version... changing "I lost my way" to "I found my way" or "It fills me up," etc... a strained attempt at positivity.

At any rate, I agree that a listen to the backing track of the 15 Big Ones recording evinces a brilliant arrangement. I no longer skip over the song after having heard the American Spring recording and the backing track from 15 Big Ones.

[MBE]

I  Wish the Beach Boys recording was from 1973 too as all but Al sounded far worse in 1976 than 1973.

I actually think that Brian's more tattered vocals add something to the song. There is a tinge of desperation during his part at the end that takes the song to another level. It adds a deeper layer of emotion. I'm sure he still could have conveyed this with his sweeter early '70s voice, but I like the feel his rougher voice creates.

It's interesting because that was the moment the new voice was revealed. I suppose he does sound more desperate.

[Quzi]

I'm gonna be a little daring here and say that Had to Phone Ya would probably hit the list of my top thirty BB songs. The arrangement and the lyrics are simply sublime, it's as if "Trombone Dixie" had a kid with "This Whole World" and Mike of '65 was called in to pen top-tier feel good lyrics. What I especially like is how Brian wove the structure of the song in a way that makes it feel "right" not in a way that makes it "conventional" - a classic Brian Wilson touch. Definitely one of the few songs to come after the Brian's Back campaign that can stand on its own if it were played back-to-back against something Brian produced in his heyday.

I often wonder if "Had to Phone Ya"'s astonishing quality was just a fluke or if Brian still had that 'magic' in him and just needed more time/more rehabilitation before he could consistently produce at that level.

[Jim V.]

I always kinda wondered what exactly possessed the group to use "Had to Phone Ya" for 15 Big Ones. Did Brian suggest it while in the middle of crankin' out all of those oldies he was recording? It seems odd that he would pick out that random song that was already released and work on it. I wonder if that was a song the band coaxed him into recording because they wanted more Brian written material. Although it was just as odd that he would pick a song out from the early '60s ("Back Home") and work on that too. And it's kinda weird how differently produced it is, especially compared to the rest of the album. Its more akin to Pet Sounds than 15 Big Ones. Perhaps the instrumental was really tracked in 1973 or 1974 or something, and we don't know that?

Only shame is, if Brian and the boys were into using previously used American Spring material, I wish they would have used "Sweet Mountain", although I have the vibe that it was written more by Sandler than Wilson, especially with that melody of Sandler's from a few years before or something.

And I know it's lame of me to bring it up again, but I still just don't understand why "Good Timin'" and "California Feelin'" weren't used for their followup to Holland. I know Dennis and Mike both talked up "Good Timin'", and Brian even played "California Feelin'" to a writer in the studio during the sessions for 15 Big Ones, so it's not like they were forgotten or thought of as unworthy of release. I think it's possible that Brian knew when he had a great song, and by say, 1972 or so, he would rather not send that song out to the world to be judged, and would rather just leave it unreleased. Kinda like the "Surf's Up" scenario.