What's VDP's problem?

[MBE]

I would  have no problem with the Van Dyke  except I honestly think he just makes himself look bad everytime he attacks Mike. Parks should get as much chance to talk as Mike, but Mike has never gotten personal with Van Dyke in public.

You don't think creating a TV movie portraying Van Dyke as a drug pusher who ruined Brian's life isn't getting personal?

Are you saying you think Mike created that TV movie?

He was a consultant, but he neither wrote, directed, cast, or edited it. All I know is that he said when it came out he wasn't happy with some of it. Yes some of the Mike bias on night two was silly, but he did freak out and threaten Brian. Also Brian Wilson had to have signed off on it at some point. If he or his people didn't read or know the script that was an error on their end. Brian has problems of course but he can read a script,

[Cam Mott]

Wasn't Brian also a consultant?

[MBE]

Wasn't Brian also a consultant?

From what I remember reading at the time he sure was. Some have said his involvement only was in the few (very inappropriate for the era the movie was about) vocals he cut. He really should have taken a more active role and if he didn't it was a poor move by him and/or his management. Still in the scheme of things that he was played badly in the second part doesn't mean much now. The movie didn't lose anyone any real fans and  the casual viewers were more likely to enjoy the music and buy it if anything. It was a bad blunder but like most of the Beach Boys failures it has been thankfully forgot about. The Beach Boys are legends now and nothing they do wrong or have done wrong is going to change that at this point.

[Autotune]

When Van Dyke Parks put out his last album, did Mike Love write a commentary on a website somewhere telling you what a piece of sh*t Van Dyke Parks is?  No.  

You know why VDP is really still mad?  Because he's all about the money.  He's pissed that in his mind, Mike didn't let the album come out, and he didn't get paid as much for it.  Now keep in mind  many of the good songs were released on other albums anyways, so ultimately what he's pissed about is that he didn't get paid enough for the half-assed songs on the album that didn't make it onto other albums.  

What a lot of people hate about Mike Love (his money lubbin ways) is the same affliction VDP suffers from.  

I always read his "got a Volvo out of the deal" quote as positive.

[Cam Mott]

Wasn't Brian also a consultant?

From what I remember reading at the time he sure was. Some have said his involvement only was in the few (very inappropriate for the era the movie was about) vocals he cut. He really should have taken a more active role and if he didn't it was a poor move by him and/or his management. Still in the scheme of things that he was played badly in the second part doesn't mean much now. The movie didn't lose anyone any real fans and  the casual viewers were more likely to enjoy the music and buy it if anything. It was a bad blunder but like most of the Beach Boys failures it has been thankfully forgot about. The Beach Boys are legends now and nothing they do wrong or have done wrong is going to change that at this point.

For all we know Brian consulted in the parts to which VDP objects.  Anyways, they both are great and jerks alternately just like the rest of us.

[debonbon]

I have to say I am floored, FLOORED by all the praise and good will people are giving Mike Love here, sorry but WTF.

[MBE]

Wasn't Brian also a consultant?

From what I remember reading at the time he sure was. Some have said his involvement only was in the few (very inappropriate for the era the movie was about) vocals he cut. He really should have taken a more active role and if he didn't it was a poor move by him and/or his management. Still in the scheme of things that he was played badly in the second part doesn't mean much now. The movie didn't lose anyone any real fans and  the casual viewers were more likely to enjoy the music and buy it if anything. It was a bad blunder but like most of the Beach Boys failures it has been thankfully forgot about. The Beach Boys are legends now and nothing they do wrong or have done wrong is going to change that at this point.

For all we know Brian consulted in the parts to which VDP objects.  Anyways, they both are great and jerks alternately just like the rest of us.

You know part of the reason I like them is that they are so human. They are a very American group, showing both its best and worst qualities in their music and lives-yet their appeal is no less potent elsewhere.  I relate to their story and songs personally and they have improved my life with their music in so many ways. They helped me mature and really realize what's important.  They aren't as directly influential in the way people I know personally have been of course, but their impact on me is almost as strong and that says a lot about the power of their best music.

[Autotune]

I have to say I am floored, FLOORED by all the praise and good will people are giving Mike Love here, sorry but WTF.

A rather strong anti-Mike faction still inhabits the youtube discussions. You might want to take a look there.

On the other hand, the anti-Mike / Brianista faction became a minority in the BBs message boards. Took a while.

Older people will remember posts such as this from the Wheeler forum:
"I think Mike should change his name to Mike Greed, because he's so greedy" (*)



The poster's nick was Diamond Head, and he was promptly asked to change his first name to Dick.

[SMiLE Brian]

When Van Dyke Parks put out his last album, did Mike Love write a commentary on a website somewhere telling you what a piece of sh*t Van Dyke Parks is?  No.  


When Mike Love decided to tour around the world with his cousin and his friends, did Van Dyke Parks decide to write a commentary about what a piece of sh*t Mike Love is?  Yes.



VDP is a bigger prick than Mike could ever be.

Brian lost a multimillion dollar lawsuit to Mike.  Yet Brian's standing on stage next to him.  How's that make Brian look?  He looks like a man, he looks like someone who forgives and forgets.

Al has been sued by Mike, but there he is on the same stage with him making good music.  How's that make Al look?  It makes him look like a man, he looks like someone who forgives and forgets.

VDP needs to

A. Shut the hell up

or

B. Pick up the phone, like a man, and call Mike up and apologize for being such a dick to him.  


Of course he won't do either, because he's a small, petty person who's not even in the same universe as Mr. positivity.  

BTW, Mike's lyrics in "Good Vibrations" are better than anything VDP ever wrote.  

Not trolling; just attacking VDP's hatred.  He decided to talk trash, so that invites more negativity.  


















Here's the dirty secret.  If you're a VDP fan, don't read this.  You'll get so mad you'll stay up another 7 pages telling me what an idiot I am.  DO NOT READ BEYOND THIS IF YOU ARE A VDP FAN.

















You know why VDP is really still mad?  Because he's all about the money.  He's pissed that in his mind, Mike didn't let the album come out, and he didn't get paid as much for it.  Now keep in mind  many of the good songs were released on other albums anyways, so ultimately what he's pissed about is that he didn't get paid enough for the half-assed songs on the album that didn't make it onto other albums.  

I know it sucks.  I wish he'd just be honest about it, he's pissed that the money he got for his contribution wasn't what he though it should be.  He should be paid, and paid well for his work, but why doesn't he just come out and THANK! Mike Love for all the money he's made off those songs over the years.

What a lot of people hate about Mike Love (his money lubbin ways) is the same affliction VDP suffers from.  

wow.

Ron is Mike Love himself...

[SMiLE Brian]

I have to say I am floored, FLOORED by all the praise and good will people are giving Mike Love here, sorry but WTF.

A rather strong anti-Mike faction still inhabits the youtube discussions. You might want to take a look there.

On the other hand, the anti-Mike / Brianista faction became a minority in the BBs message boards. Took a while.

Older people will remember posts such as this from the Wheeler forum:
"I think Mike should change his name to Mike Greed, because he's so greedy" (*)



The poster's nick was Diamond Head, and he was promptly asked to change his first name to Dick.

I generally favor Brian, but I respect the whole group and their efforts. I don't hate Mike, I'm just disappointed at the foolish behavior from 1970 to 2005 he showed.

[Quincy]

When Van Dyke Parks put out his last album, did Mike Love write a commentary on a website somewhere telling you what a piece of sh*t Van Dyke Parks is?  No.  


When Mike Love decided to tour around the world with his cousin and his friends, did Van Dyke Parks decide to write a commentary about what a piece of sh*t Mike Love is?  Yes.



VDP is a bigger prick than Mike could ever be.

Brian lost a multimillion dollar lawsuit to Mike.  Yet Brian's standing on stage next to him.  How's that make Brian look?  He looks like a man, he looks like someone who forgives and forgets.

Al has been sued by Mike, but there he is on the same stage with him making good music.  How's that make Al look?  It makes him look like a man, he looks like someone who forgives and forgets.

VDP needs to

A. Shut the hell up

or

B. Pick up the phone, like a man, and call Mike up and apologize for being such a dick to him.  


Of course he won't do either, because he's a small, petty person who's not even in the same universe as Mr. positivity.  

BTW, Mike's lyrics in "Good Vibrations" are better than anything VDP ever wrote.  

Not trolling; just attacking VDP's hatred.  He decided to talk trash, so that invites more negativity.  


















Here's the dirty secret.  If you're a VDP fan, don't read this.  You'll get so mad you'll stay up another 7 pages telling me what an idiot I am.  DO NOT READ BEYOND THIS IF YOU ARE A VDP FAN.

















You know why VDP is really still mad?  Because he's all about the money.  He's pissed that in his mind, Mike didn't let the album come out, and he didn't get paid as much for it.  Now keep in mind  many of the good songs were released on other albums anyways, so ultimately what he's pissed about is that he didn't get paid enough for the half-assed songs on the album that didn't make it onto other albums.  

I know it sucks.  I wish he'd just be honest about it, he's pissed that the money he got for his contribution wasn't what he though it should be.  He should be paid, and paid well for his work, but why doesn't he just come out and THANK! Mike Love for all the money he's made off those songs over the years.

What a lot of people hate about Mike Love (his money lubbin ways) is the same affliction VDP suffers from.  

wow.

Ron is Mike Love himself...

Take the blinders off..unbelievable

[roll plymouth rock]

When Van Dyke Parks put out his last album, did Mike Love write a commentary on a website somewhere telling you what a piece of sh*t Van Dyke Parks is?  No.  


When Mike Love decided to tour around the world with his cousin and his friends, did Van Dyke Parks decide to write a commentary about what a piece of sh*t Mike Love is?  Yes.



VDP is a bigger prick than Mike could ever be.

Brian lost a multimillion dollar lawsuit to Mike.  Yet Brian's standing on stage next to him.  How's that make Brian look?  He looks like a man, he looks like someone who forgives and forgets.

Al has been sued by Mike, but there he is on the same stage with him making good music.  How's that make Al look?  It makes him look like a man, he looks like someone who forgives and forgets.

VDP needs to

A. Shut the hell up

or

B. Pick up the phone, like a man, and call Mike up and apologize for being such a dick to him.  


Of course he won't do either, because he's a small, petty person who's not even in the same universe as Mr. positivity.  

BTW, Mike's lyrics in "Good Vibrations" are better than anything VDP ever wrote.  

Not trolling; just attacking VDP's hatred.  He decided to talk trash, so that invites more negativity.  


















Here's the dirty secret.  If you're a VDP fan, don't read this.  You'll get so mad you'll stay up another 7 pages telling me what an idiot I am.  DO NOT READ BEYOND THIS IF YOU ARE A VDP FAN.

















You know why VDP is really still mad?  Because he's all about the money.  He's pissed that in his mind, Mike didn't let the album come out, and he didn't get paid as much for it.  Now keep in mind  many of the good songs were released on other albums anyways, so ultimately what he's pissed about is that he didn't get paid enough for the half-assed songs on the album that didn't make it onto other albums.  

I know it sucks.  I wish he'd just be honest about it, he's pissed that the money he got for his contribution wasn't what he though it should be.  He should be paid, and paid well for his work, but why doesn't he just come out and THANK! Mike Love for all the money he's made off those songs over the years.

What a lot of people hate about Mike Love (his money lubbin ways) is the same affliction VDP suffers from.  

wow.

Ron is Mike Love himself...

Take the blinders off..unbelievable

Ha didn't VDP come up with the cello hooky part in GV?

[hypehat]

I have to say I am floored, FLOORED by all the praise and good will people are giving Mike Love here, sorry but WTF.

A rather strong anti-Mike faction still inhabits the youtube discussions. You might want to take a look there.

On the other hand, the anti-Mike / Brianista faction became a minority in the BBs message boards. Took a while.

Older people will remember posts such as this from the Wheeler forum:
"I think Mike should change his name to Mike Greed, because he's so greedy" (*)



The poster's nick was Diamond Head, and he was promptly asked to change his first name to Dick.

Yeah, whilst I think Mike Love is a terrible ass with poor taste in music and baseball caps, this doesn't mean I don't rate his contributions! You can be a fan of the musician and not the man.

[Menace Wilson]

I read Mike Love's contribution to the Smile Sessions booklet, but nothing in it struck me as particularly insulting or hostile towards VDP.  Maybe I just wasn't paying enough attention.  Can anybody here quote or paraphrase?

[Roger Ryan]

Wasn't Brian also a consultant?

From what I remember reading at the time he sure was. Some have said his involvement only was in the few (very inappropriate for the era the movie was about) vocals he cut. He really should have taken a more active role and if he didn't it was a poor move by him and/or his management. Still in the scheme of things that he was played badly in the second part doesn't mean much now. The movie didn't lose anyone any real fans and  the casual viewers were more likely to enjoy the music and buy it if anything. It was a bad blunder but like most of the Beach Boys failures it has been thankfully forgot about. The Beach Boys are legends now and nothing they do wrong or have done wrong is going to change that at this point.

The story at the time of the broadcast was that Brian and his management were shown the first night's edit, but the second night's more inflammatory material was not released until a day or two before broadcast. It was at this point that Brian and his management demanded a disclaimer be added at the beginning of the second part (significantly not present during the first night) that noted that dramatic license had been taken.

I don't know for certain whether Brian's people read a full script or not or understood the implication of the script, but I don't think there is any question that the Brian camp took more offense to the movie's second half. Without even knowing the background on this, that second night disclaimer made me think that something unexpected had gone down.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Wasn't Brian also a consultant?

From what I remember reading at the time he sure was. Some have said his involvement only was in the few (very inappropriate for the era the movie was about) vocals he cut. He really should have taken a more active role and if he didn't it was a poor move by him and/or his management. Still in the scheme of things that he was played badly in the second part doesn't mean much now. The movie didn't lose anyone any real fans and  the casual viewers were more likely to enjoy the music and buy it if anything. It was a bad blunder but like most of the Beach Boys failures it has been thankfully forgot about. The Beach Boys are legends now and nothing they do wrong or have done wrong is going to change that at this point.

Brian has had the luxury of being able to control to some extent his public image. At the time, he was still widely perceived to be kind of barely functioning idiot savant and the movie practically reinforced that image and to me even suggested that he had pretty much been like that all his life. The Brian depicted in that movie (in all parts of that movie) could have never actually made the music he was making. Nevertheless, the very concerted effort that has worked in a way to save Brian's image, seemingly much to the chagrin of certain people here, apparently, who lament the image of Brian as a somewhat tortured genius that came in as an alterative the image of him as a brain-dead 60s-era casualty of indulgence. Unfortunately Van Dyke doesn't have the same kind of luxury as Brian to have as much control over his public image as others. Like I said, you expect a man drowning to scream.

[SMiLE Brian]

I hate it when I when I tell people that I like Brian Wilson and they always say "That weirdo from The Beach Boys who did too many drugs"

[Chocolate Shake Man]

I hate it when I when I tell people that I like Brian Wilson and they always say "That weirdo from The Beach Boys who did too many drugs"

This is what I'm talking about, yeah. Things like American Family (though far from just that) have worked to perpetuate that perception.

[SMiLE Brian]

I hate it when I when I tell people that I like Brian Wilson and they always say "That weirdo from The Beach Boys who did too many drugs"

This is what I'm talking about, yeah. Things like American Family (though far from just that) have worked to perpetuate that perception.

The whole "Brian is Back"campaign and the weird interviews with Brian was what really got the public to think that. That whole campaign was shameful with pushing a very ill man to perform and make records when he really should have got help in private.

[MBE]

I don't like image of Brian the drug wasted burnout. I defend him very strongly over the four or five years after "Smile". Yet I would have to be blind to not see Brian changed after Murry's death for good and also to not understand that he didn't always make the right choices. Neither "Brian is really back this time" or "Brian is crazy" does him any good. Both of these things have been beaten to death by The Beach Boys, by Landy, by Melinda, and, let's be real here, by Brian himself. Why they don't tell us that the real story is in the middle is baffling. Brian did indeed improve greatly from his darkest days, but he's never totally come back either. Humanize the guy, he is actually really nice and funny when he is relaxed. Still don't deny that he has incurred some damage he won't recover from. I've said this repeatedly but for some it has never hit home, even as early as Al rejoining in 1963 Briansuffered from mental issues. Drugs, Smile, The Beach Boys, weren't the main issues though at times all of these things added a lot of strain. He has a genetic mental illness that affected his dad and grandfather and his uncle Johnny. Mike also had a break down-why does that get brushed over? Read Tim White's book for their family history it remains an essential read and it was that book that helped humanize Mike for me and I suspect for others too. That all said Brian has done many people well by talking about his problems and I commend him for doing the sensitive and excellently presented interview a few years back for Ability magazine.

Still I just think that his image since 1976 has never been handled too well the majority of the time. He ( or Van Dyke for that matter) never needed to put down the Beach Boys to make himself look good. Everyone knows he's good. I strongly think he has been encouraged to separate himself since he first went solo until now. You won't find one bad comment on the guys from Brian until 1988 or so. Yes they weren't getting along at the the time but why cut your own throat? I mean to let Landy put out a book like that just opens you up for lawsuits. Maybe he wasn't in the position to say no, maybe he hasn't said no by himself for decades? The point is that the book has done more damage to him personally than the movie or anything else. The info has been repeated over and over by careless writers or fans. That despite Tim White exposing it as a total fraud when it came out in the hardly low profile Bilboard Magazine. The book makes all involved look bad Brian included and frankly only things that have appeared elsewhere BEFORE it came out are even half correct.

Nothing but the music matters in the long run and instead of hype, anything Brian has done or will do should be allowed to rise and fall on its own merits. Releasing albums he had little to do with (GIOMH) or that attempt to feebly compete with the Beach Boys (Disney) is not the way to go. Even giving him more credit than he deserves in publicity (OCA, BWPS, TLOS) makes him look bad. That his best solo work has been in collaboration with some very talented people shouldn't be something to shy away from. Those seeing the show or reading the notes on the albums realize that he has help, but to release BS DVDs like "Brian Wilson on Tour" or "Beautiful Dreamer" just do a disservice to him. This despite them both having moments of fascination. The truth hurts everyone far less than myth. There are NO complete Heroes nor Villians in the Beach Boys saga. I think a middle ground needs to be taken and people like Stebbins and Doe do a lot to end the myths and bring some reality into the mix. I commend them; even before I read their work I wanted to do the same.  

I am glad Brian is doing this Beach Boys tour and album just so he can let go of the bad times and remember the good. This goes for all of them. Why anyone would deny them the chance to end things on a better note is beyond me. I probably haven't been quite this outspoken before, but I was dragged into the BS against my will and want to make all my views very clear. Nothing I or anyone else says should upset these people. They made their mark and nobody is trying to negate that. My view on "Smile" was and is to treat it like any other period and cut through the legends around it. That's all I have ever done or tried to do. Getting a book out is hard work and I hope it will come out and stand for itself. Until I get a deal on it though why would  Van Dyke single out a little guy like me who is just trying to share his love of the Beach Boys and do every member justice.  Am I not allowed to share my view as a long time observer and fan on how Van Dyke comes off when he talks about The Beach Boys. If he makes strong public pronouncements he has to know that some people aren't going to agree with what he says. I know this myself but he is Van Dyke Parks and I am Mike Eder. He will go down in history and I won't  He has a right to not like what I said, but what I said in the interview was mild and is backed up by dates and facts.  What do I have to do with Brian getting back together with The Beach Boys?

One last time I have only expressed my reservations about how he comes off in interviews on here. A place where we should all feel free to be honest. That's what his generation stood for isn't it?  I know big wigs read the board but I have been fair in that I always am open to hearing from him or anyone else that wants to give his side of an issue I bring up, People around the Beach Boys have loose lips but I never have revealed anything private that I feel isn't for public consumption and I never will. Yet we all should and can feel free to weigh in on anything made public by the band or the people around them.

[Cam Mott]

Wasn't Brian also a consultant?

From what I remember reading at the time he sure was. Some have said his involvement only was in the few (very inappropriate for the era the movie was about) vocals he cut. He really should have taken a more active role and if he didn't it was a poor move by him and/or his management. Still in the scheme of things that he was played badly in the second part doesn't mean much now. The movie didn't lose anyone any real fans and  the casual viewers were more likely to enjoy the music and buy it if anything. It was a bad blunder but like most of the Beach Boys failures it has been thankfully forgot about. The Beach Boys are legends now and nothing they do wrong or have done wrong is going to change that at this point.

The story at the time of the broadcast was that Brian and his management were shown the first night's edit, but the second night's more inflammatory material was not released until a day or two before broadcast. It was at this point that Brian and his management demanded a disclaimer be added at the beginning of the second part (significantly not present during the first night) that noted that dramatic license had been taken.

I don't know for certain whether Brian's people read a full script or not or understood the implication of the script, but I don't think there is any question that the Brian camp took more offense to the movie's second half. Without even knowing the background on this, that second night disclaimer made me think that something unexpected had gone down.

I remember that was the story at the time and I'm a little sceptical but I don't know different. Just my impression that things were nenver as warm and fuzzy between Brian and Van Dyke as we like to imagine. Brian could still advise on and approve the whole script and then turn around and bitch to change after somebody gets their undies in a bunch and makes a stink. Somehow the stories always exonerate Brian and leave somebody else holding the blame. Maybe it's just me but shouldn't the crap be squarely heaped on the writer and director instead of two advisers who were both insulted by the writing and directing? Do we really think Brian and Mike advised the writer and director to make them look like a stoner mentally handicapped person and a wife-beating p*ssy?

[Chocolate Shake Man]

I remember that was the story at the time and I'm a little sceptical but I don't know different. Just my impression that things were nenver as warm and fuzzy between Brian and Van Dyke as we like to imagine. Brian could still advise on and approve the whole script and then turn around and bitch to change after somebody gets their undies in a bunch and makes a stink. Somehow the stories always exonerate Brian and leave somebody else holding the blame.

Maybe there's a reason for that that's not some made-up conspiracy in which Brian is made to look great and Mike is made to look villainous.

Maybe it's just me but shouldn't the crap be squarely heaped on the writer and director instead of two advisers who were both insulted by the writing and directing?

Well, TV, particularly bad TV, is more often than not a product of very severe meddling from producers. There is very little creative freedom for TV writers and directors.

Do we really think Brian and Mike advised the writer and director to make them look like a stoner mentally handicapped person and a wife-beating kitty?

Oh, come on. Mike came off as bloody heroic in that thing -- just flawed enough by Hollywood standards to make it seem believable.

[Cam Mott]

Ok, throw some blame on the producers too. The rest we will just disagree on.

[MBE]

Heroic? The "Good Vibrations" scene. and the fight with Dennis makes him look better than he was. or more important, but is a bad husband and a violent tempered band mate really a hero? Not to mention hey made him look completely insane in the scene with his dad. Again Mike said even back in 2000 that he was NOT happy with parts of the movie. I think Mike's notes on "Smile" in the box are very different to the viewpoint of the director or writer. He's has never changed his story since he was first confronted on it. Hate him or not he's not ever made the "Smile" sessions seem like they came off in the movie.

[endofposts]

I'm not sure that disclaimer for Part 2 of "American Family" was on the first broadcast or the rerun.  The disclaimer was at the request of Van Dyke, not Brian Wilson.  I remember reading a story about the movie when it was first broadcast that described Brian's wife being on the set of the movie and not happy with the scenes that were being shot for Part 2.  But she didn't do anything about it.  She also had script approval, so I'm not sure why anyone would sign off on a script that wasn't even completed.  As pointed out, Mike was portrayed badly in that movie, as well.  They probably believed any publicity was good publicity.  Van Dyke's problem may have been that he was made into a composite character.  In some bio-pics, they will take two or three people in the main character's life and make them into one supporting character.  Van Dyke's character seemed to represent multiple people who were around during that time.  It saves on story development/screen time to do it that way, but I can see how he might have been upset.