What's VDP's problem?

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Heroic? The "Good Vibrations" scene. and the fight with Dennis makes him look better than he was. or more important, but is a bad husband and a violent tempered band mate really a hero?

Like I said, just flawed enough to make his heroism believable. His flaws are though are barely the ones attributed to Dennis and Brian and we are meant to feel sympathatic about his exclusion from the creative process (i.e. not being asked by Brian anymore to write lyrics) which is shown to be an unjustfied and illegitimate action by a man who was not only a barely functioning idiot savant but also a tyrant to boot!

[Dr. Tim]

Not really defending VDP's remarks here, but the vitriol gives the impression Van has been hitting the LA Times, TMZ, EW, Rolling Stone, Billboard and Spin screaming his little mustache off, in that event I could understand a big pushback.  But this all seems disproportionate to what he actually did: make a few intemperate wisecracks on his own website, full stop.  I think he'd rather be promoting his new subscription series of 45's.

So the new P.C. here - as more than a few posters have done - is to bring the hate on that fey, pussified smart-type innerlecshul guy.  Typical of us Americans, I guess.

No one wants to take me up on my bet that Van does a lyric for the new BB LP before they finish?  Or stops in and plays the accordion?

[Wirestone]

So the new P.C. here - as more than a few posters have done - is to bring the hate on that fey, pussified smart-type innerlecshul guy.  Typical of us Americans, I guess.

Exactly. I would love to say that this conversation has been free of the kind of homophobic idiocy that distinguishes so many U.S.-based fandoms, but I guess I can't say that anymore. How many people in this thread are straight white guys? Mm-hm. Thought so.

And yeah, I know Van Dyke is straight. That doesn't have anything to do with how he's treated, and what the motivations of that treatment are. Which is that he's not macho, he's smart, and he's ... different. And so he is bullied by the posters here. Can't have anyone unusual or different polluting those all-American Beach Boys. After all, they're America's band. Ain't nothing so American as loving those girls. Get it? Girls. Mike has been married how many times? God, what a stud! Wish I could have been married that many times!

Hey, let's joke about how much "action" Mike is going to get now that the reunion is rolling along. Hey, we love chicks and cheerleaders! Am I right, guys?

[b00ts]

Wasn't Brian also a consultant?

Yes, Brian was also a consultant.

[Bicyclerider]

I have to say I am floored, FLOORED by all the praise and good will people are giving Mike Love here, sorry but WTF.

You aren't the only one - to suggest Van Dyke's ill feelings towards Mike have to do with money is laughable - anyone remember on the Heroes sessions "bring Mike a bag of money?"  Mike's motivation has ALWAYS involved money - not exclusively, but if any Beach Boys member or collaborator could be pegged as being about the money, it sure as hell isn't Van Dyke Parks.

[MBE]

I happen to think he looked good in his twenties. He's not gay at all.

[Disney Boy (1985)]

I have to say I am floored, FLOORED by all the praise and good will people are giving Mike Love here, sorry but WTF.

Don't worry. I hate him too. The man's a bully. Least favourite Mike moment? Despite all the terrible things he's done, for me it's that clip in Endless Harmony when he says of the BB's car songs 'they had wheels on', and then mimes wheels spinning and laughs. Dreadful. Even worse than the moment when he says 'I'm Mr Positive', pulling an expression as if he's the least positive human being on the planet.

Seriously though, he's given us some good songs (Big Sur is a big fave) and some great lyrics of course, but as a person, to me he seems very dislikeable indeed.

[b00ts]

So the new P.C. here - as more than a few posters have done - is to bring the hate on that fey, pussified smart-type innerlecshul guy.  Typical of us Americans, I guess.

Exactly. I would love to say that this conversation has been free of the kind of homophobic idiocy that distinguishes so many U.S.-based fandoms, but I guess I can't say that anymore. How many people in this thread are straight white guys? Mm-hm. Thought so.

And yeah, I know Van Dyke is straight. That doesn't have anything to do with how he's treated, and what the motivations of that treatment are. Which is that he's not macho, he's smart, and he's ... different. And so he is bullied by the posters here. Can't have anyone unusual or different polluting those all-American Beach Boys. After all, they're America's band. Ain't nothing so American as loving those girls. Get it? Girls. Mike has been married how many times? God, what a stud! Wish I could have been married that many times!

Hey, let's joke about how much "action" Mike is going to get now that the reunion is rolling along. Hey, we love chicks and cheerleaders! Am I right, guys?

HELL YEA WE LUV US SUM CHEERLEEDERS, PUSSIES LIKE VAN DYKE PARKS DONT LIKE CHEERLEADERZ BUT MIKELOVE LOVES HIM SOME CHEERLEEDERC. MIKELOVE IS A REEELMAN IN MY BOOK AND THATS ALRIGHT WIF ME IN MY BOOK LOL WHY DONT VAN DYKE PARKS STOP BEING QUEER AND START BEING A REELMAN LIKE MIKELOVE, MAYBE HE SHOULD GET HIM A PICKUPTRUCK AND GO TO SOME NASCAR EVENTS, THEN HE WOULD BE ALRIGHT IN MY BOOK! MY BOOK IS THE GUNS N' AMMO N' REELMEN BOOK N CASE U WANT TO TAKE IT OUT AT THE LIBARY. NO JK LIBARIES ARE FOR PUSSIES! LOLL!

IN MY BOOK THE BEACH BOYS ARE ALRIGHT BY ME AS LONG AS THEY DONT BOTHER WITH ARTISTIC CRAP LIKE SMILE OR PETSOUNDS, I WANT THE FUNNSUN SONGS BECUZ I AM A REELMAN WITH NO INSECURITIES ABOUT MY OWN MASCULINITY, THATZ WHY I SPEND ALL MY TIME BROWBEATING OTHERS ON A BEACHBOYS BOARD. GODFAMILYCOUNTRY! GUNS! ECONOMIC INEQUALITY JK LOLL

[SMiLE Brian]

So the new P.C. here - as more than a few posters have done - is to bring the hate on that fey, pussified smart-type innerlecshul guy.  Typical of us Americans, I guess.

Exactly. I would love to say that this conversation has been free of the kind of homophobic idiocy that distinguishes so many U.S.-based fandoms, but I guess I can't say that anymore. How many people in this thread are straight white guys? Mm-hm. Thought so.

And yeah, I know Van Dyke is straight. That doesn't have anything to do with how he's treated, and what the motivations of that treatment are. Which is that he's not macho, he's smart, and he's ... different. And so he is bullied by the posters here. Can't have anyone unusual or different polluting those all-American Beach Boys. After all, they're America's band. Ain't nothing so American as loving those girls. Get it? Girls. Mike has been married how many times? God, what a stud! Wish I could have been married that many times!

Hey, let's joke about how much "action" Mike is going to get now that the reunion is rolling along. Hey, we love chicks and cheerleaders! Am I right, guys?

HELL YEA WE LUV US SUM CHEERLEEDERS, PUSSIES LIKE VAN DYKE PARKS DONT LIKE CHEERLEADERZ BUT MIKELOVE LOVES HIM SOME CHEERLEEDERC. MIKELOVE IS A REEELMAN IN MY BOOK AND THATS ALRIGHT WIF ME IN MY BOOK LOL WHY DONT VAN DYKE PARKS STOP BEING QUEER AND START BEING A REELMAN LIKE MIKELOVE, MAYBE HE SHOULD GET HIM A PICKUPTRUCK AND GO TO SOME NASCAR EVENTS, THEN HE WOULD BE ALRIGHT IN MY BOOK! MY BOOK IS THE GUNS N' AMMO N' REELMEN BOOK N CASE U WANT TO TAKE IT OUT AT THE LIBARY. NO JK LIBARIES ARE FOR PUSSIES! LOLL!

IN MY BOOK THE BEACH BOYS ARE ALRIGHT BY ME AS LONG AS THEY DONT BOTHER WITH ARTISTIC CRAP LIKE SMILE OR PETSOUNDS, I WANT THE FUNNSUN SONGS BECUZ I AM A REELMAN WITH NO INSECURITIES ABOUT MY OWN MASCULINITY, THATZ WHY I SPEND ALL MY TIME BROWBEATING OTHERS ON A BEACHBOYS BOARD. GODFAMILYCOUNTRY! GUNS! ECONOMIC INEQUALITY JK LOLL

stars and stripes vol. 1 combines my two loves, BBs and Toby Keith.

[hypehat]

So the new P.C. here - as more than a few posters have done - is to bring the hate on that fey, pussified smart-type innerlecshul guy.  Typical of us Americans, I guess.

Exactly. I would love to say that this conversation has been free of the kind of homophobic idiocy that distinguishes so many U.S.-based fandoms, but I guess I can't say that anymore. How many people in this thread are straight white guys? Mm-hm. Thought so.

And yeah, I know Van Dyke is straight. That doesn't have anything to do with how he's treated, and what the motivations of that treatment are. Which is that he's not macho, he's smart, and he's ... different. And so he is bullied by the posters here. Can't have anyone unusual or different polluting those all-American Beach Boys. After all, they're America's band. Ain't nothing so American as loving those girls. Get it? Girls. Mike has been married how many times? God, what a stud! Wish I could have been married that many times!

Hey, let's joke about how much "action" Mike is going to get now that the reunion is rolling along. Hey, we love chicks and cheerleaders! Am I right, guys?

+1

No doubt Ron will hit the bottle later and tell us all that we are on our period or something, and the thread will go on for another few hundred pages. Not that we shouldn't be calling people out on this sort of thing, I'm not saying that. But it's tiresome.

[Mikie]

Remember, Mike's buddy John Stamos produced 'American Family'.  Mike bought off on it.

[Mikie]

No doubt Ron will hit the bottle later and tell us all that we are on our period or something, and the thread will go on for another few hundred pages.

That made me laugh out loud.  Good 'un, Hyperhat!    Probly true......

And for the record, I'm a straight white guy.  Totally and unequivocally into kitty.

[SMiLE Brian]

No doubt Ron will hit the bottle later and tell us all that we are on our period or something, and the thread will go on for another few hundred pages.

That made me laugh out loud.  Good 'un, Hyperhat!    Probly true......

And for the record, I'm a straight white guy.  Totally and unequivocally into kitty.

That's our Ron!

[Roger Ryan]

I'm not sure that disclaimer for Part 2 of "American Family" was on the first broadcast or the rerun.  The disclaimer was at the request of Van Dyke, not Brian Wilson. 

The disclaimer was present on the first broadcast of Part 2 (this was the only time I watched AN AMERICAN FAMILY). While Parks may have voiced his disapproval, which may have contributed to the demand for the disclaimer (if, in fact, Parks had seen the film prior to broadcast or read the script), it was definitely reported on that Brian (via Melinda) was very unhappy with how his character was portrayed, especially in relation to the character of Dennis. The result, as reported, was the addition of the disclaimer. Subsequently, Parks demanded that the name of his character be changed or he would sue. This is how the character of "Van" (as he was referred to in the initial broadcast) became "Tommy".

[Custom Machine]

I'm not sure that disclaimer for Part 2 of "American Family" was on the first broadcast or the rerun.  The disclaimer was at the request of Van Dyke, not Brian Wilson.  I remember reading a story about the movie when it was first broadcast that described Brian's wife being on the set of the movie and not happy with the scenes that were being shot for Part 2.  But she didn't do anything about it.  She also had script approval, so I'm not sure why anyone would sign off on a script that wasn't even completed.  As pointed out, Mike was portrayed badly in that movie, as well.  They probably believed any publicity was good publicity.  Van Dyke's problem may have been that he was made into a composite character.  In some bio-pics, they will take two or three people in the main character's life and make them into one supporting character.  Van Dyke's character seemed to represent multiple people who were around during that time.  It saves on story development/screen time to do it that way, but I can see how he might have been upset. 

There was a disclaimer on the original broadcasts of both Parts 1 and 2 of "The BBs - An American Family".  The disclaimers appeared on screen with a simultaneous voice over. 

The Part 1 disclaimer (2-27-00): "The following dramatization of events in the lives of The Beach Boys is based on published accounts and personal interviews."

The Part 2 disclaimer (2-28-00) appeared in much larger lettering:  "The following film is a dramatization based on the early years of The Beach Boys.  Some of the scenes may have been fictionalized for dramatic purposes."

Subsequent screenings of the film have used the stronger Part 2 disclaimer for both Parts 1 and 2.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

I dunno why you guys are all gushing steam over some stupid TV movie! They all suck! Rock bios! Even the good ones (Buddy Holly Story) ring so false as to come off as insults no matter how good the intentions.

The VDP American Family debacle can be taken both ways and both points are valid. But what are you gonna do? It was a piece of merda that will likely never see the light of day again other than in Stamos' basement perhaps.

I think Mike Eder and Ron (Mike Love himself or not) are inching us toward the truth here, like it or not.

This story sucks because EVERYONE is essentially right. VDP's position is understandable: but, look, The Beach Boys were not/are not his band. Mike is a founding member and part of the family business, so if he had more say, sway, power than VDP, tough merda! VDP and Brian's new "druggie" friends certainly might have inspired Brian's creativity (not that it needed any: the guy was on fire) but their other influences were obviously not very positive or healthy to Brian, so Mike perhaps looking at them as dangerous interlopers and threats to Brian's health, sanity, security (yes, his own AND The Beach Boys') was not out of line. We all know the toll drugs took on Brian in the years to come. Do people actually think it's all because Smile never came out? That's a silly position to take even if it could be partially (at the most) true..... But timing is everything and if the earth had shifted ever so slightly, Brian could have finished Smile and Mike could have chased out all the druggies and everyone would have lived happily ever after. But we're talking about complicated emotions and situations here and it really doesn't seem like anyone did what we: sitting here 40+ years of hindsight down the line: would consider right.

VDP can complain about Mike and Smile for the rest of his days. It's pathetic but he's free to do it. But when he uses the fact that Brian's touring/recording with his family and friends as an excuse to go on a tirade about........ Smile: it really is none of his business, out of line, and he should really just shut up and maybe remind himself that Brian DID finish Smile with his full participation, Capitol DID release official product: and yes, he was credited for the songs he wrote lyrics (of debatable quality) for that were previously released, and that he has an entire contingent of "Beach Boys fans" on his side who consider Mike Love satan himself.

I can't help watching VDP tearing up during his stranding ovation at the Smile performance on the Beautiful Dreamer doc and thinking, how awesome a moment it is, but also how someone like David Marks is just as deserving of such a moment, but will likely never see one. And how David Marks is also a true human being who has seen all sides of the Beach Boys, good and bad and who has retained his dignity in every way.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

And yeah, I know Van Dyke is straight. That doesn't have anything to do with how he's treated, and what the motivations of that treatment are. Which is that he's not macho, he's smart, and he's ... different. And so he is bullied by the posters here. Can't have anyone unusual or different polluting those all-American Beach Boys. After all, they're America's band. Ain't nothing so American as loving those girls. Get it? Girls. Mike has been married how many times? God, what a stud! Wish I could have been married that many times!

I'm so fucking offended by this post I can't even think straight.  I'm going to respond once I have a chance to calm down.

Maybe.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

I have to say I am floored, FLOORED by all the praise and good will people are giving Mike Love here, sorry but WTF.

Don't worry. I hate him too. The man's a bully. Least favourite Mike moment? Despite all the terrible things he's done, for me it's that clip in Endless Harmony when he says of the BB's car songs 'they had wheels on', and then mimes wheels spinning and laughs. Dreadful. Even worse than the moment when he says 'I'm Mr Positive', pulling an expression as if he's the least positive human being on the planet.

Seriously though, he's given us some good songs (Big Sur is a big fave) and some great lyrics of course, but as a person, to me he seems very dislikeable indeed.

Can anyone say TOUGH CROWD?

Sheesh!

[Autotune]

So the new P.C. here - as more than a few posters have done - is to bring the hate on that fey, pussified smart-type innerlecshul guy.  Typical of us Americans, I guess.

And yeah, I know Van Dyke is straight. That doesn't have anything to do with how he's treated, and what the motivations of that treatment are. Which is that he's not macho, he's smart, and he's ... different. And so he is bullied by the posters here. Can't have anyone unusual or different polluting those all-American Beach Boys. After all, they're America's band. Ain't nothing so American as loving those girls. Get it? Girls. Mike has been married how many times? God, what a stud! Wish I could have been married that many times!

Hey, let's joke about how much "action" Mike is going to get now that the reunion is rolling along. Hey, we love chicks and cheerleaders! Am I right, guys?

Calm down. VDP has been criticized for his recent opinions and their tone; and for his 40-year-old tirade against Mike Love and the Beach Boys. And that's about it.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

I, for one, like everything about VDP aside from his 40 year old tirade. I dig his style, the way he dresses, he has a great speaking voice, I love his solo work. "Song Cycle" and "Clang Of The Yankee Reaper" I can play over and over again until my neighbors cut-off my electricity.  OCA is great too. Funnily enough, his lyrics for the Smile album are amongst my least favorite things he's done. Maybe that fact keeps me from giving two many s*ts about what happened with Smile. But either way, I dig the guy but am just sick of hearing him bitch about Mike and Smile.

[I. Spaceman]

And yeah, I know Van Dyke is straight. That doesn't have anything to do with how he's treated, and what the motivations of that treatment are. Which is that he's not macho, he's smart, and he's ... different. And so he is bullied by the posters here. Can't have anyone unusual or different polluting those all-American Beach Boys. After all, they're America's band. Ain't nothing so American as loving those girls. Get it? Girls. Mike has been married how many times? God, what a stud! Wish I could have been married that many times!

I'm so f*cking offended by this post I can't even think straight.  I'm going to respond once I have a chance to calm down.

Maybe.

Same here.

[MBE]

I dunno why you guys are all gushing steam over some stupid TV movie! They all suck! Rock bios! Even the good ones (Buddy Holly Story) ring so false as to come off as insults no matter how good the intentions.

The VDP American Family debacle can be taken both ways and both points are valid. But what are you gonna do? It was a piece of merda that will likely never see the light of day again other than in Stamos' basement perhaps.

I think Mike Eder and Ron (Mike Love himself or not) are inching us toward the truth here, like it or not.

This story sucks because EVERYONE is essentially right. VDP's position is understandable: but, look, The Beach Boys were not/are not his band. Mike is a founding member and part of the family business, so if he had more say, sway, power than VDP, tough merda! VDP and Brian's new "druggie" friends certainly might have inspired Brian's creativity (not that it needed any: the guy was on fire) but their other influences were obviously not very positive or healthy to Brian, so Mike perhaps looking at them as dangerous interlopers and threats to Brian's health, sanity, security (yes, his own AND The Beach Boys') was not out of line. We all know the toll drugs took on Brian in the years to come. Do people actually think it's all because Smile never came out? That's a silly position to take even if it could be partially (at the most) true..... But timing is everything and if the earth had shifted ever so slightly, Brian could have finished Smile and Mike could have chased out all the druggies and everyone would have lived happily ever after. But we're talking about complicated emotions and situations here and it really doesn't seem like anyone did what we: sitting here 40+ years of hindsight down the line: would consider right.

VDP can complain about Mike and Smile for the rest of his days. It's pathetic but he's free to do it. But when he uses the fact that Brian's touring/recording with his family and friends as an excuse to go on a tirade about........ Smile: it really is none of his business, out of line, and he should really just shut up and maybe remind himself that Brian DID finish Smile with his full participation, Capitol DID release official product: and yes, he was credited for the songs he wrote lyrics (of debatable quality) for that were previously released, and that he has an entire contingent of "Beach Boys fans" on his side who consider Mike Love satan himself.

I can't help watching VDP tearing up during his stranding ovation at the Smile performance on the Beautiful Dreamer doc and thinking, how awesome a moment it is, but also how someone like David Marks is just as deserving of such a moment, but will likely never see one. And how David Marks is also a true human being who has seen all sides of the Beach Boys, good and bad and who has retained his dignity in every way.

Wonderful post.

[hypehat]

And yeah, I know Van Dyke is straight. That doesn't have anything to do with how he's treated, and what the motivations of that treatment are. Which is that he's not macho, he's smart, and he's ... different. And so he is bullied by the posters here. Can't have anyone unusual or different polluting those all-American Beach Boys. After all, they're America's band. Ain't nothing so American as loving those girls. Get it? Girls. Mike has been married how many times? God, what a stud! Wish I could have been married that many times!

I'm so f*cking offended by this post I can't even think straight.  I'm going to respond once I have a chance to calm down.

Maybe.

Same here.

I know it's not really helpful, but I took that as calling out a very few select viewpoints on here and certainly not everybody who posts. Should probably not butt in any more than is necessary, but that's how I interpreted it.

[SMiLE Brian]

Just wait until Ron logs in tonight after drinking too much...

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

And yeah, I know Van Dyke is straight. That doesn't have anything to do with how he's treated, and what the motivations of that treatment are. Which is that he's not macho, he's smart, and he's ... different. And so he is bullied by the posters here. Can't have anyone unusual or different polluting those all-American Beach Boys. After all, they're America's band. Ain't nothing so American as loving those girls. Get it? Girls. Mike has been married how many times? God, what a stud! Wish I could have been married that many times!

I'm so f*cking offended by this post I can't even think straight.  I'm going to respond once I have a chance to calm down.

Maybe.

Same here.

I know it's not really helpful, but I took that as calling out a very few select viewpoints on here and certainly not everybody who posts. Should probably not butt in any more than is necessary, but that's how I interpreted it.

I sure hope that was the case, because if it wasn't...