New album info (as it rolls out...)

[Ziggy Stardust]

And btw, Paul McCartney, Paul Simon, Joni Mitchell, and Bob Dylan haven't recorded a song in many decades that can even hold a candle to the worst one on this album. 

Dylan? You're kidding, right? A fair amount of Dylan's greatest work has been recorded over the last 15 years.

Dear lord, Not Dark Yet has to be one of my all time fav Bob Dylan songs ever.

[Summertime Blooz]

(Although for that matter I've never heard anything else, ever, that sounds quite like the sound the band got on some tracks from Surf's Up through Holland where they were combining analogue synth sounds with acoustic folk instruments like the banjo.)

Have you ever checked out The High Llamas?

[Aegir]

well, they're just ripping off the Beach Boys.

[Summertime Blooz]

well, they're just ripping off the Beach Boys.

If you mean that the High Llamas music has been hugely influenced and inspired by the Beach Boys, then I agree with you. But the term "ripping off" implies something negative which I don't think they deserve. I, for one, am happy and thankful for the many musicians and bands out there who have taken The Beach Boys music to heart, and have incorporated into their own art.

[Wirestone]

I actually think this kind of historical talk rather misstates what was going on. Smiley Smile, Wild Honey and Friends were all very much part of the late-60s moment in which the big psych-rock bands started emphasizing more acoustic, less-produced approaches to their music. See the White Album and John Wesley Harding for examples. This is how BW's former posse saw it, too.

And Brian was still self-consciously writing singles. Sometimes they were hits -- Darlin and Do It Again -- sometimes they weren't -- Breakaway and Friends. But Brian wanted to have hits, and was reportedly hugely discouraged when something like Breakaway didn't do well. What's more, after Sunflower (during which he had re-emerged, albeit as a more collaborate force) flopped, he really retreated over the next few albums.

This isn't to say that BW didn't make some purposefully less-commercial music after the implosion of Smile. He did. But that was in keeping with the trends of the time. And he seems to never have stopped wanting to have hit singles, and he certainly kept trying to write and produce them. Brian derived a great deal of self-worth from the knowledge that other people liked what he did.

[b00ts]

I actually think this kind of historical talk rather misstates what was going on. Smiley Smile, Wild Honey and Friends were all very much part of the late-60s moment in which the big psych-rock band started emphasizing more acoustic, less-produced approaches to their music. See the White Album and John Wesley Harding for examples. This is how BW's former posse saw it, too.

And Brian was still self-consciously writing singles. Sometimes they were hits -- Darlin and Do It Again -- sometimes they weren't -- Breakaway and Friends. But Brian wanted to have hits, and was reportedly hugely discouraged when something like Breakaway didn't do well. What's more, after Sunflower (during which he had re-emerged, albeit as a more collaborate force) flopped, he really retreated over the next few albums.

This isn't to say that BW didn't make some purposefully less-commercial music after the implosion of Smile. He did. But that was in keeping with the trends of the time. And he seems to never have stopped wanting to have hit singles, and he certainly kept trying to write and produce them. Brian derived a great deal of self-worth from the knowledge that other people liked what he did.

I will never understand why "Break Away" was not a bigger hit, aside from the obvious reason of Capitol having no interest in promoting the single. It has to be one of the best Beach Boys singles ever, and I would love to hear a new live rendition of the song.

[AndrewHickey]

(Although for that matter I've never heard anything else, ever, that sounds quite like the sound the band got on some tracks from Surf's Up through Holland where they were combining analogue synth sounds with acoustic folk instruments like the banjo.)

Have you ever checked out The High Llamas?

I have, and I see what you mean, but theirs is a much more clinical sound.

[Summertime Blooz]

(Although for that matter I've never heard anything else, ever, that sounds quite like the sound the band got on some tracks from Surf's Up through Holland where they were combining analogue synth sounds with acoustic folk instruments like the banjo.)

Have you ever checked out The High Llamas?

I have, and I see what you mean, but theirs is a much more clinical sound.

This is true. They definitely have a European slant that's a part of their brew.

[ontor pertawst]

The lyrics to Break Away are pretty amazing as well and could refer to Murry, or to Brian:

"When I laid down on my bed
I heard voices in my head"

Wow.  Nail on the head, "Reggie Dunbar."

[b00ts]

Back to the new record... Does the chorus of "Spring Vacation" remind anyone else of the chorus from "He Come Down?" 'Spring Vacation...' and 'I believe it...' sort of similar, at least in phrasing.

[Rocker]

Thanks for the tip. I suppose the timing of that 2007 gig I was watching had a lot to do with it because I have the 2004 Glasgow gig and never noticed any issues with the songs in that recording.  In fact, I didn't know it was him in those 2004 recordings.  I'm unfamiliar with all the players pre-2008.  He does sound better on those.   The Branson gig may have been one where he and a few other phoned it in because the entire first row was flooded with children. Halfway through the show it looked like the Beach Boys were playing at a middle school.  The whole spectacle was actually quite disturbing to watch right after seeing them at the Beacon the week before.

Yeah, I could see that making a difference.
The line-up for the 2004 shows was Mike, Bruce, Chris Farmer (bass and musical director), Randell Kirsch (lead guitar, falsetto vocals), Scott Totten (rhythm guitar, backing vocals), Tim Bonhomme (keyboards, backing vocals), John Cowsill (keyboards, vocals) and Mike Kowalski (drums) -- that's the same line-up that had toured since 2001 (when Cowsill and Totten replaced Phil Bardowell and Mike Meros), except that Kirsch had recently replaced Adrian Baker. Since then, Kowalski left, Cowsill moved to drums, and then Farmer left, Christian Love came in on rhythm guitar, Kirsch switched to bass and Scott Totten to lead guitar and musical director.

Here's an example of that band (there's also a part 2):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8ikpC2CcXE&feature=related



New album is at #18 on amazon

[Ziggy Stardust]

Breakaway is epic!

[bsten]

http://avro.nl/audioplayer/?p=schiffersfm&d=2012/05/13&h=1




I went to the Dutch site and listened to the two full songs, great!! But what really hit me was the Norah Jones song, "Chasing pirates". Now that would make a great BB song! Can you imagine Mike on lead and the rest of the guys on bv? I certainly can!!     Also compare the production of that song and the new BB (auto-)tunes...

Funny, but there's been no mention of the ALTERNATE version of TWGMTR on the same site.
Go to 6-5, 10:00-11:00 (see playlist).

Tried recording it but there's something wrong with my sound card...

/B

[hypehat]

You can download the shows as podcasts  

I don't think that's an alternate version, though? What are you hearing differently?

[monicker]

Remind me again who said it was your birthright to expect the same production style from 1966 in 2012.

Why do people keep making this assumption that if it doesn’t have all the hallmarks of a 2012 record production style, then the only alternative is 1966, and that that's what we're expecting? What?

You want the Beach Boys to sound like they did in 1966.

Stop.

Why do you think you have a right to expect them to now behave otherwise?

And what is this that you keep going on about RIGHTS?

And btw, Paul McCartney, Paul Simon, Joni Mitchell, and Bob Dylan haven't recorded a song in many decades that can even hold a candle to the worst one on this album.

Missed the point.

Comparing The Shins, Mumford and Sons, Fleet Foxes, Flaming Lips to Brian Wilson is laughable.

Missed the point.

8x derivative indie rock to the original? Great argument you have there.

And missed the point yet again.

I think I get you guys now; "any vocal that isn't single-tracked and only has reverb or echo on it... is horribly "autotuned" "

Assuming that others are ignorant doesn’t make your arguments valid or you more knowledgeable.

 

[monicker]

Fans do this too -- if it's something we like, Brian must be responsible. If it's something we hate, he was being manipulated by evil outside forces.

As i said in an earlier post, one way or the other, Brian Wilson is responsible for the decision to use these vocal effects on the new album. He produced it. I "blame" him.

[monicker]

No I wouldn't say more. But From Here To Back Again and Pacific Coast Highway are probably of the same level, and they're quite slow ballads so sticks out more.

I think I get you guys now; "any vocal that isn't single-tracked and only has reverb or echo on it... is horribly "autotuned" "

Um.... Except that neither reverb nor echo sound even remotely similar to autotune.

neither is what some people are calling autotune (i think that's his point)

True. There is a cry of "AUTOTUNE" around here that reminds me of chicken little. But you can't deny the presence of autotune on the new album. It's there. Not anything necessarily wrong about that. It's well known that John Lennon hated his voice and favored putting what he called "ketchup" on his vocals.

Oh theres def autotune. Which is perfectly fine. But some people were saying that al's vocal on fttba is autotuned, when that obviously isnt pitch correcting.

Man, come on, people have been perfectly clear about making a distinction between Autotune as pitch correction and Autotune as effect. Al can sing better than anyone, he doesn't need pitch correction. That stuff is there AS AN EFFECT. But, pitch correction or effect, it's still THAT SOUND. And that's what people are referring to.

[runnersdialzero]

Agayn, I'm puzzled as to how people can't grasp that it does "freakin' matter" to some folks for reasons I stated a couple pages ago.

Remind me again who said it was your birthright to expect the same production style from 1966 in 2012.

I also demand the same gas prices that existed in 1966. Help me out with that, please.

Again - why the hyperbole? A few times now, I've stated that it's not Brian's muddiest 1965 mono mix versus a Ke$ha production. No one has said, "Why doesn't it sound like 1966?" I'm wondering why they're using something that compromises all the vocals of a vocal group instead of applying a bit of tasteful pitch correction on an as-needed basis to fix the couple slightly bum notes. It's bad enough they're lazily applying a pitch correction filter over the entire vocal instead of fixing up a couple notes, but they're doing a poor job at it, as well.

Listen to Al's vocal on "From There To Back Again" when he sings "clouds" and a couple other words and, with a straight face, tell me it's acceptable that they unnecessarily f*cked with his vocal like that. Nothing but autotune (or similar pitch correction software, if you want to split hairs like some folks are doing) produces an effect like that. What if they start using this stuff on new stereo mixes? If they can't give respect to the Beach Boys and their legacy on a new recording by using something that compromises their music, then why should they have respect enough to not apply it on new stereo mixes? Or new mixes of unreleased material?

The year music is produced should not fall victim to all the shortcomings of that era. In '85, the self-titled Beach Boys album sounded pretty cutting edge for an aging pop band, but I'll be damned if it isn't hideously dated now. It's not negative mental association with other acts who use these tools - those big, booming 80s synth drums are just as ill-fitting for the Beach Boys as autotune. Just because you record and produce something in 2012 doesn't mean you are, by law, required to use a cheap tool like autotune over the entire vocal, which will inevitably be considered dated sooner or later too.

Sorry to bring this up again, but I don't like being accused of hyperbole myself when someone like this is the one who's using it - not me.

[monicker]

http://avro.nl/audioplayer/?p=schiffersfm&d=2012/05/13&h=1




I went to the Dutch site and listened to the two full songs, great!! But what really hit me was the Norah Jones song, "Chasing pirates". Now that would make a great BB song! Can you imagine Mike on lead and the rest of the guys on bv? I certainly can!!     Also compare the production of that song and the new BB (auto-)tunes...

Funny, but there's been no mention of the ALTERNATE version of TWGMTR on the same site.
Go to 6-5, 10:00-11:00 (see playlist).

Tried recording it but there's something wrong with my sound card...

/B

Great, the cavernous Joe Thomas 1987 drum hit leading into the fade sounds even worse now, and Jeff's "GAWD!!" is louder in the mix now.

[b00ts]

Agayn, I'm puzzled as to how people can't grasp that it does "freakin' matter" to some folks for reasons I stated a couple pages ago.

Remind me again who said it was your birthright to expect the same production style from 1966 in 2012.

I also demand the same gas prices that existed in 1966. Help me out with that, please.

Again - why the hyperbole? A few times now, I've stated that it's not Brian's muddiest 1965 mono mix versus a Ke$ha production. No one has said, "Why doesn't it sound like 1966?" I'm wondering why they're using something that compromises all the vocals of a vocal group instead of applying a bit of tasteful pitch correction on an as-needed basis to fix the couple slightly bum notes. It's bad enough they're lazily applying a pitch correction filter over the entire vocal instead of fixing up a couple notes, but they're doing a poor job at it, as well.

(snip snip snip snip snip)

Sorry to bring this up again, but I don't like being accused of hyperbole myself when someone like this is the one who's using it - not me.

Great posts, Runners and Monicker. You hit the nail on the etc.

[Zach95]

Agayn, I'm puzzled as to how people can't grasp that it does "freakin' matter" to some folks for reasons I stated a couple pages ago.

I think you have failed to read any of my post except the first line.  So it matters to you whether the vocal effect is Antares Autotune or Eventide harmonizer effects? THAT was my point.  Whatever vocal enhancement was used, it simply doesn't matter unless you're obsessed with the name "autotune".  The effect is there, no matter what it's called. Read my entire post next time.

[runnersdialzero]

I think you have failed to read any of my post except the first line.  So it matters to you whether the vocal effect is Antares Autotune or Eventide harmonizer effects? THAT was my point.  Whatever vocal enhancement was used, it simply doesn't matter unless you're obsessed with the name "autotune".  The effect is there, no matter what it's called. Read my entire post next time.

What? Any form of modern pitch correction software needlessly applied to the entire vocal almost always has detectable results which generally cheapen the sound quality of the vocal. "Autotune" is used by many as a catch-all phrase for this kind of manipulation just as it's acceptable to say "Hand me a Kleenex" instead of "Hand me a tissue" to most people. I don't care if it's specifically Antares Autotune or some other modern software which does the exact same thing.

[Zach95]

I think you have failed to read any of my post except the first line.  So it matters to you whether the vocal effect is Antares Autotune or Eventide harmonizer effects? THAT was my point.  Whatever vocal enhancement was used, it simply doesn't matter unless you're obsessed with the name "autotune".  The effect is there, no matter what it's called. Read my entire post next time.

What? Any form of modern, manual pitch correction needlessly applied to the entire vocal almost always has detectable results which generally cheapen the sound quality of the vocal. "Autotune" is used by many as a catch-all phrase for this kind of manipulation just as it's acceptable to say "Hand me a Kleenex" instead of "Hand me a tissue" to most people. I don't care if it's specifically Antares Autotune or some other modern software which does the exact same thing.

Yeah! I get that! That's exactly what I was saying! You needlessly argued with me about something I wasn't trying to argue!

[runnersdialzero]

I think you have failed to read any of my post except the first line.  So it matters to you whether the vocal effect is Antares Autotune or Eventide harmonizer effects? THAT was my point.  Whatever vocal enhancement was used, it simply doesn't matter unless you're obsessed with the name "autotune".  The effect is there, no matter what it's called. Read my entire post next time.

What? Any form of modern, manual pitch correction needlessly applied to the entire vocal almost always has detectable results which generally cheapen the sound quality of the vocal. "Autotune" is used by many as a catch-all phrase for this kind of manipulation just as it's acceptable to say "Hand me a Kleenex" instead of "Hand me a tissue" to most people. I don't care if it's specifically Antares Autotune or some other modern software which does the exact same thing.

Yeah! I get that! That's exactly what I was saying! You needlessly argued with me about something I wasn't trying to argue!

I get what you mean now but still can't really read into that in the original post. Still, my bad sorry about that.

[Zach95]

I think you have failed to read any of my post except the first line.  So it matters to you whether the vocal effect is Antares Autotune or Eventide harmonizer effects? THAT was my point.  Whatever vocal enhancement was used, it simply doesn't matter unless you're obsessed with the name "autotune".  The effect is there, no matter what it's called. Read my entire post next time.

What? Any form of modern, manual pitch correction needlessly applied to the entire vocal almost always has detectable results which generally cheapen the sound quality of the vocal. "Autotune" is used by many as a catch-all phrase for this kind of manipulation just as it's acceptable to say "Hand me a Kleenex" instead of "Hand me a tissue" to most people. I don't care if it's specifically Antares Autotune or some other modern software which does the exact same thing.

Yeah! I get that! That's exactly what I was saying! You needlessly argued with me about something I wasn't trying to argue!

I get what you mean now but still can't really read into that in the original post. Still, my bad sorry about that.

No problem, my friend.  Like I said in that post, I was really rambling and struggling to express the point I was trying to make.  That was on me. 

In any event, I haven't heard much discussion about the section at the end of the clip for FTTBA, the part where the piano kicks in and does this beautiful little run and stops, then kicks in again.  It's absolutely stunning.