Will harmony reign on Beach Boys tour? USA Today

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Please don't get so personal with this! This is not some new argument and I'm not trying to be obtuse! Are you trying to tell me that you get to decide that Mike has no right to claim any credit for anything and that if he does, it means he's a gasbag? C'mon!

I take Mike's quote and then balance it against all the compliments he's lavished upon Brian and then balance it upon the recorded evidence which highly suggests Mike's positivity mixed with Brian's more sensitive and vulnerable emotionality created something very very special. Then I balance it against so many years of the Brian and the 5 merdaholes line and then I can understand Mike a bit better and I can even manage something not unlike sympathy for the guy.

You're just jumping all over Mike's quote as evidence to support your hatred for the man who's band you claim to be a fan of. Having said that, I respect your right to disagree and I've also stated that yes, Mike brings a lot of Myke hated upon himself, but it helps to look for the shades of gray in any situation. And hey, I started my Beach Boys fandom as a hard-core Mike hater!

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Are you trying to tell me that you get to decide that Mike has no right to claim any credit for anything and that if he does, it means he's a gasbag? C'mon!

No I'm not saying that but the "C'mon!" suggests that you don't care whether I say it or not, you're simply satisfied with the strawman argument that diverts attention away from the quote itself, which has nothing to do with whether Mike should "claim any credit for anything" and rather is an example of him claiming credit for everything, which again is uncontroversially what he says. That alone doesn't make him a gasbag, but it certainly doesn't help.

I take Mike's quote and then balance it against all the compliments he's lavished upon Brian and then balance it upon the recorded evidence which highly suggests Mike's positivity mixed with Brian's more sensitive and vulnerable emotionality created something very very special.

Well, in fact, I was nice enough not to provide the rest of the quotation. He notes that the Beach Boys meant so much because of the positivity which was his domain and goes on to say that "Brian was melancholy." So, in other words, because the Beach Boys success came down to their positivity and because Brian was melancholy, ultimately Mike suggests here that The Beach Boys were successful in spite of Brian. Granted, even this absurdity is unusual for Mike, but he says it nevertheless.

You're just jumping all over Mike's quote as evidence to support your hatred for the man who's band you claim to be a fan of.

I've already said in this thread alone that I don't hate him. It's somewhat shameful that you have to keep attributing claims and beliefs to me that aren't true in order to continue your justification of this ridiculous quote. Since you can't legitimately justify something so stupid, you have chosen to make up points about me - first by inventing the position that "Mike has no right to claim any credit for anything" and now by saying that I hate him, followed up by an insinuation that I am not really a fan of the band, I just claim to be. This is all rhetorical trickery of course.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Well, first off: this isn't a courtroom, it's a message board for the Beach Boys, therefore it always shocks me how some people can't get so enraged when someone on a Beach Boys message board......... defends one of the Beach Boys.

I've tried to make this point before: it is a perhaps unfortunate fact, but a fact nonetheless, that some fans actually like Mike. They like his voice, his lyrics, his vibe, his insanity and find him highly entertaining and ridiculous but with the goods to back it all up. It shouldn't be taken for granted that everyone merely tolerates Mike because they love Brian so much and Brian had the misfortune of being related to Mike. Now, let me make this clear: I'm not inferring that you personally said any of this stuff. I'm just ranting away on my own. Now, being a fan of Mike: I will be more likely to defend him when he seems to be maliciously attacked. All I did really was simply suggest that there are other ways of looking at his quotes and behavior besides just going toward the negative..... This is just my opinion.

Tear this message up as you will.

Besides, to attempt to invalidate one's opinion as rhetorical trickery is in and of itself ....... rhetorical trickery of a high order.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Well, first off: this isn't a courtroom, it's a message board for the Beach Boys, therefore it always shocks me how some people can't get so enraged when someone on a Beach Boys message board......... defends one of the Beach Boys.

I've tried to make this point before: it is a perhaps unfortunate fact, but a fact nonetheless, that some fans actually like Mike. They like his voice, his lyrics, his vibe, his insanity and find him highly entertaining and ridiculous but with the goods to back it all up. It shouldn't be taken for granted that everyone merely tolerates Mike because they love Brian so much and Brian had the misfortune of being related to Mike. Now, let me make this clear: I'm not inferring that you personally said any of this stuff. I'm just ranting away on my own. Now, being a fan of Mike: I will be more likely to defend him when he seems to be maliciously attacked. All I did really was simply suggest that there are other ways of looking at his quotes and behavior besides just going toward the negative..... This is just my opinion.

Tear this message up as you will.

OK - well let me just say that I also like his voice and his lyrics. I believe both were instrumental in ultimately constructing the California Myth which is partly what makes The Beach Boys such an important band (something that often gets unacknowledged by those who are fans strictly of the Pet Sounds and beyond period). While I don't think there are other ways of reading the quotation and while I do think there are reasons that he made such statements when he did, which I won't get into, I do find a lot of great things about Love's work and have certainly never been shy to mention them or even defend them.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

And I must admit, I find plenty of Mike's quotes and attitude on the unfortunate side, and maybe I'm reading too much into such things in order to let him off the hook, but my basic opinion of the Beach Boys initial success is that Mike's vibe was beyond crucial to them getting off the ground and being successful. Of course, the story changes later, but when I hear Mike say Brian was melancholy and he was positive: he's right, and to me, this is the very hook which made The Beach Boys what they were, or the main spark, if you will.

This is just my opinion, but it probably helps to know where I'm coming from. There are so many different facets to The Beach Boys to love and it is very easy for these facets to feel highly personal and coveted.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

when I hear Mike say Brian was melancholy and he was positive: he's right, and to me, this is the very hook which made The Beach Boys what they were, or the main spark, if you will.

But see that's an opinion that I respect. I think depending on one's definition of success, it could be debatable but I respect it nevertheless. So, one could say (for example) that Pet Sounds and Smile are the pinnacle of the Beach Boys artistic success not because they were commercially popular but because of what they achieved musically. Now if Mike had said what you said in that quotation, I wouldn't find any fault with it at all. But he didn't - he said something wholly different and something very problematic and like I said, not very surprising because there are just so many things he doesn't get. Take one of the issues brought up in this thread - namely his corniness at concerts. I don't think the issue comes down to "We think he's corny but Mike thinks he's funny." Rather, and I feel this distinction is important, "Mike knows he's corny but he thinks that his corniness is funny." And to go one further, he thinks his arrogance is witty. Some people can make arrogance witty. Humorist Jack Handey has mastered it, for example. But Mike hasn't - and so when he says something along the lines of "The only thing we're bringing back from England is wet socks" to his English audience, it's awkward because the joke doesn't work because it isn't and all that's left is the arrogance. And more over, arrogance is typically most amusing if the audience understands that it's false. But Mike's statements elsewhere, including the one I've given, suggests that it's his go-to style of humour because it's just a central part of his own character. To me, a mature and reasonable person takes stock in himself and adapts for situations. An immature, irrational, egomaniac, believes that there is nothing to fix ever. So when this argument that "Mike just doesn't care. He just says what he says" business comes up in his defense, I can't do anything but roll my eyes that this is the best that can be said.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Ha! I would never in a million years try and defend Mike's stage banter (and I have a soft spot in my heart for OSD who was traumatized by it in the Beach Boys prime). All I will do is point to the fact that Mr. Love is indeed related to the Wilson's by blood and is completely batsh*% insane in his own right.

[Ron]

Hmmmmm. Maybe he actually enjoys being a Beach Boys and being able to perform (in whatever capacity) such great music/lyrics. Maybe he actually likes Mike's lyrics. Bruce doesn't need the money.

Exactly.  First of all, Mike works his ass off, has for 50 years now... and Bruce is there the whole time, even though he's becoming an old man, and is a multimillionaire before he even made any money in music?  The guy obviously does it because he enjoys it and is doing it for the fans.

That's something people forget too, Mike and Bruce are doing a service to their fans!

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATTTTT? They're doing it as a service to their fans??? Are you still in junior high shool? I guarantee that there is one and only one reason they do what they do and that is bucks, dinero, shillings, dolares, currency, doublets, coinage, excess of returns over outlay, whatever you want to call it today. But it ain't no hobby. It's a tradeoff if anything-I'll sing for my supper-no more, no less. Nobody made Myke and Bruth do what they're doing and they're well paid for singing for a couple of hours.

Old Man, don't reply to my posts anymore.  You're bitter, and Mike must have f***ed your wife for all the hatred you have for him. 

it's really cute how you misspell their names on purpose too, do you think that makes you look clever?  I think it makes you look like a clown. 

[Ron]

OSD, just try to enjoy the last ride of whats left of America's band for better or worse. Brian can keep Mike's claims in check, because Brian can tell the truth  about songwriting credits/collaborators if needed during the shows.  You can see them this summer and remember you saw them in their prime with Dennis and Carl rocking out in Carnegie Hall.

True dat-but if I see Myke get up there and spout about writing credits, the boos you hear will be from yours truly.

Yeah, leave it to the asshole in the room to f*** up a good time.  What kind of dick goes to a concert and boos? 

[Quincy]

Well, first off: this isn't a courtroom, it's a message board for the Beach Boys, therefore it always shocks me how some people can't get so enraged when someone on a Beach Boys message board......... defends one of the Beach Boys.

I've tried to make this point before: it is a perhaps unfortunate fact, but a fact nonetheless, that some fans actually like Mike. They like his voice, his lyrics, his vibe, his insanity and find him highly entertaining and ridiculous but with the goods to back it all up. It shouldn't be taken for granted that everyone merely tolerates Mike because they love Brian so much and Brian had the misfortune of being related to Mike. Now, let me make this clear: I'm not inferring that you personally said any of this stuff. I'm just ranting away on my own. Now, being a fan of Mike: I will be more likely to defend him when he seems to be maliciously attacked. All I did really was simply suggest that there are other ways of looking at his quotes and behavior besides just going toward the negative..... This is just my opinion.

Tear this message up as you will.

Besides, to attempt to invalidate one's opinion as rhetorical trickery is in and of itself ....... rhetorical trickery of a high order.

  sounds like the sheriff's back

[RONDEMON]

My guess to why Mike brings up his own accomplishments is that in the majority of Beach Boys-related articles since "Pet Sounds," Brian has gotten all of the credit for being a genius"or creating EVERYTHING on his own and that the other Beach Boys are just some puppets that go on the road FOR him.

That's partially true but it's definitely not that straightforward...

f you were Mike Love, co-writing lyrics to the BB's biggest hits, touring for what, 40-something years (!!!) and not getting any credit for your biggest accomplishments while your co-writer (and I say that generously w/percentages withstanding) is getting ALL of the critical praise and admiration, I think we'd all be a little more sympathetic to why Mike always brings up that he co-wrote those songs - especially lyrically.

It makes perfect sense. Give credit where credit is due. People have perpetuated the myth since the mid-60s that Brian IS the Beach Boys, which is only a half-truth - not to downplay ANYONE'S involvement.

[Autotune]

I find it amusing how some people seem to be so offended at Mike Love for claiming credit.

I don't know... we're on the verge of a great historical event for us, and instead of cherishing the fact that these guys are doing it, devote or time to proving the truth behind the "we're his fucckking messengers" quote. 

[oldsurferdude]

Hmmmmm. Maybe he actually enjoys being a Beach Boys and being able to perform (in whatever capacity) such great music/lyrics. Maybe he actually likes Mike's lyrics. Bruce doesn't need the money.

Exactly.  First of all, Mike works his ass off, has for 50 years now... and Bruce is there the whole time, even though he's becoming an old man, and is a multimillionaire before he even made any money in music?  The guy obviously does it because he enjoys it and is doing it for the fans.

That's something people forget too, Mike and Bruce are doing a service to their fans!

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATTTTT? They're doing it as a service to their fans??? Are you still in junior high shool? I guarantee that there is one and only one reason they do what they do and that is bucks, dinero, shillings, dolares, currency, doublets, coinage, excess of returns over outlay, whatever you want to call it today. But it ain't no hobby. It's a tradeoff if anything-I'll sing for my supper-no more, no less. Nobody made Myke and Bruth do what they're doing and they're well paid for singing for a couple of hours.

Old Man, don't reply to my posts anymore.  You're bitter, and Mike must have f*cked your wife for all the hatred you have for him. 

it's really cute how you misspell their names on purpose too, do you think that makes you look clever?  I think it makes you look like a clown. 

Hey punk, I'll reply to any post I feel like-especially yours f*ckwit. I think it's so freakin' cool that it bothers you so damn much. Look for more coming your way soon. Better get your kneepads all ready cause Myke's coming to town. And by the way, my wife died of cancer 4 years ago, so let's leave her outta this a-hole.

[drbeachboy]

Hmmmmm. Maybe he actually enjoys being a Beach Boys and being able to perform (in whatever capacity) such great music/lyrics. Maybe he actually likes Mike's lyrics. Bruce doesn't need the money.

Exactly.  First of all, Mike works his ass off, has for 50 years now... and Bruce is there the whole time, even though he's becoming an old man, and is a multimillionaire before he even made any money in music?  The guy obviously does it because he enjoys it and is doing it for the fans.

That's something people forget too, Mike and Bruce are doing a service to their fans!

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATTTTT? They're doing it as a service to their fans??? Are you still in junior high shool? I guarantee that there is one and only one reason they do what they do and that is bucks, dinero, shillings, dolares, currency, doublets, coinage, excess of returns over outlay, whatever you want to call it today. But it ain't no hobby. It's a tradeoff if anything-I'll sing for my supper-no more, no less. Nobody made Myke and Bruth do what they're doing and they're well paid for singing for a couple of hours.

Old Man, don't reply to my posts anymore.  You're bitter, and Mike must have f*cked your wife for all the hatred you have for him. 

it's really cute how you misspell their names on purpose too, do you think that makes you look clever?  I think it makes you look like a clown. 

Hey punk, I'll reply to any post I feel like-especially yours f*ckwit. I think it's so freakin' cool that it bothers you so damn much. Look for more coming your way soon. Better get your kneepads all ready cause Myke's coming to town. And by the way, my wife died of cancer 4 years ago, so let's leave her outta this a-hole.

You bring it on yourself. When you do not specifically post about Mike, you are a terrific poster, bringing very interesting insights, especially about the concerts you attended. Sorry to hear about your wife. The big "C" takes way too many people, way before their time.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Well, first off: this isn't a courtroom, it's a message board for the Beach Boys, therefore it always shocks me how some people can't get so enraged when someone on a Beach Boys message board......... defends one of the Beach Boys.

I've tried to make this point before: it is a perhaps unfortunate fact, but a fact nonetheless, that some fans actually like Mike. They like his voice, his lyrics, his vibe, his insanity and find him highly entertaining and ridiculous but with the goods to back it all up. It shouldn't be taken for granted that everyone merely tolerates Mike because they love Brian so much and Brian had the misfortune of being related to Mike. Now, let me make this clear: I'm not inferring that you personally said any of this stuff. I'm just ranting away on my own. Now, being a fan of Mike: I will be more likely to defend him when he seems to be maliciously attacked. All I did really was simply suggest that there are other ways of looking at his quotes and behavior besides just going toward the negative..... This is just my opinion.

Tear this message up as you will.

Besides, to attempt to invalidate one's opinion as rhetorical trickery is in and of itself ....... rhetorical trickery of a high order.

  sounds like the sheriff's back

I take this as a compliment 

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

My guess to why Mike brings up his own accomplishments is that in the majority of Beach Boys-related articles since "Pet Sounds," Brian has gotten all of the credit for being a genius"or creating EVERYTHING on his own and that the other Beach Boys are just some puppets that go on the road FOR him.

That's partially true but it's definitely not that straightforward...

f you were Mike Love, co-writing lyrics to the BB's biggest hits, touring for what, 40-something years (!!!) and not getting any credit for your biggest accomplishments while your co-writer (and I say that generously w/percentages withstanding) is getting ALL of the critical praise and admiration, I think we'd all be a little more sympathetic to why Mike always brings up that he co-wrote those songs - especially lyrically.

It makes perfect sense. Give credit where credit is due. People have perpetuated the myth since the mid-60s that Brian IS the Beach Boys, which is only a half-truth - not to downplay ANYONE'S involvement.

Great post!

It's amazing how often this point is put in plain and simple English which should appeal to anyone's basic human consideration and yet people do nothing but insult Mike and slam him for any mere mention of his accomplishments (yes, let's call them that) .... Mike is not perfect. He's just one more insane person in a band full of them. It pays to remember this.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Hmmmmm. Maybe he actually enjoys being a Beach Boys and being able to perform (in whatever capacity) such great music/lyrics. Maybe he actually likes Mike's lyrics. Bruce doesn't need the money.

Exactly.  First of all, Mike works his ass off, has for 50 years now... and Bruce is there the whole time, even though he's becoming an old man, and is a multimillionaire before he even made any money in music?  The guy obviously does it because he enjoys it and is doing it for the fans.

That's something people forget too, Mike and Bruce are doing a service to their fans!

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATTTTT? They're doing it as a service to their fans??? Are you still in junior high shool? I guarantee that there is one and only one reason they do what they do and that is bucks, dinero, shillings, dolares, currency, doublets, coinage, excess of returns over outlay, whatever you want to call it today. But it ain't no hobby. It's a tradeoff if anything-I'll sing for my supper-no more, no less. Nobody made Myke and Bruth do what they're doing and they're well paid for singing for a couple of hours.

Old Man, don't reply to my posts anymore.  You're bitter, and Mike must have f*cked your wife for all the hatred you have for him. 

it's really cute how you misspell their names on purpose too, do you think that makes you look clever?  I think it makes you look like a clown. 

Hey punk, I'll reply to any post I feel like-especially yours f*ckwit. I think it's so freakin' cool that it bothers you so damn much. Look for more coming your way soon. Better get your kneepads all ready cause Myke's coming to town. And by the way, my wife died of cancer 4 years ago, so let's leave her outta this a-hole.

You bring it on yourself. When you do not specifically post about Mike, you are a terrific poster, bringing very interesting insights, especially about the concerts you attended. Sorry to hear about your wife. The big "C" takes way too many people, way before their time.

"Better get your kneepads all ready cause Myke's coming to town."

Pure genius!!!!!!

[Pretty Funky]

Harmony will reign on the Beach Boys tour.

Message boards not so much!

[hypehat]

Harmony will reign on the Beach Boys tour.

Message boards not so much!

^^^^ 

[Mikie]

You're bitter, and Mike must have f*cked your wife for all the hatred you have for him.

I was enjoying the hell out of this thread until I read that. Even I wouldn'ta stooped that low. You talk about hatred........who's really hating who here?

Damn, Ron.  Take a step back and re-assess the situation, eh?  It ain't that bad.

[SMiLE Brian]

OSD, just try to enjoy the last ride of whats left of America's band for better or worse. Brian can keep Mike's claims in check, because Brian can tell the truth  about songwriting credits/collaborators if needed during the shows.  You can see them this summer and remember you saw them in their prime with Dennis and Carl rocking out in Carnegie Hall.

True dat-but if I see Myke get up there and spout about writing credits, the boos you hear will be from yours truly.

If somebody needs to boo Mike or keep his ego in check, might as well be you.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

OSD's Myke bashing doesn't bother me in the least. He has a sense of humor about it and he doesn't come off as overly sanctimonious in his Myke hatred, which is refreshing. Also: for all the time he's put in as a Beach Boys fan, and considering how many times he saw them live in their prime: his Myke dislike is most likely completely genuine and hard earned.

[SMiLE Brian]

OSD's Myke bashing doesn't bother me in the least. He has a sense of humor about it and he doesn't come off as overly sanctimonious in his Myke hatred, which is refreshing. Also: for all the time he's put in as a Beach Boys fan, and considering how many times he saw them live in their prime: his Myke dislike is most likely completely genuine and hard earned.

Thats what I realised when I listened to concert tapes from the 1960s/1970s where Mike would act super annoying with endless talking and messing up songs.

[bossaroo]

The quote about Mike being positive and Brian being melancholy is so ridiculous to begin with... so black and white. And plain untrue.

BRIAN came up with Good Vibrations. BRIAN had the idea to do a humor album called SMiLE. BRIAN is the one who tried to communicate "spiritual love" with music and create "symphonies to God". The list goes on and on. Regardless of the "positive" lyrics Mike wrote, it's THE MUSIC THAT BRIAN CREATED that means so much to so many people.

And we all know that Mike has done and said plenty of things over the past 50 years that could never be described as "positive"... more than any other Beach Boy that's for sure.


it's funny... i was recently showing a friend the Endless Harmony dvd. She knows nothing about the Beach Boys, doesn't even know their names... but when it got to Mike's "positivity/melancholy" quote she was like, "Jeez, what's that guy's problem? He has some serious issues."

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

The quote about Mike being positive and Brian being melancholy is so ridiculous to begin with... so black and white. And plain untrue.

BRIAN came up with Good Vibrations. BRIAN had the idea to do a humor album called SMiLE. BRIAN is the one who tried to communicate "spiritual love" with music and create "symphonies to God". The list goes on and on. Regardless of the "positive" lyrics Mike wrote, it's THE MUSIC THAT BRIAN CREATED that means so much to so many people.

And we all know that Mike has done and said plenty of things over the past 50 years that could never be described as "positive"... more than any other Beach Boy that's for sure.


it's funny... i was recently showing a friend the Endless Harmony dvd. She knows nothing about the Beach Boys, doesn't even know their names... but when it got to Mike's "positivity/melancholy" quote she was like, "Jeez, what's that guy's problem? He has some serious issues."

I still don't get how this guy's (Mike's) comment can inspire so much hatred, anger, and back slapping decelerations of it's outright untruth! Just let it go! Mike grew up with Brian! He knows Brian! He's not just talking out his ass! And he wrote lots of songs with Brian. And it is not just Brian's music that means so much to so many people. It's the music, the lyrics, it's the voices, the interplay between all the musicians, and all the varying personalities involved that we love. Sure, you can sit there and say it's just Brian's music that we love. But unless you only listen to "Stack-Of-Tracks" maybe and nothing else, you're getting Brian's music with A LOT of contributions from others.

I've never heard Mike say anything to the effect of "Brian did nothing! It was all me! I'm the reason why the Beach Boys have achieved success." "Me and only me, and Brian doesn't deserve any credit"

Come to think of it, Roger Waters has certainly made claims to that effect: constantly belittling the others contributions (he's lightened up in recent years) and no one seems to be bothered. Mike has every right to point out his contributions however/whenever he wants, especially if some interviewer is sitting there with a camera in his face asking him about it. Just let it go! It's not like no one recognizes Brian's greatness or ignores his massive contribution to popular music. What's the big deal?