"I Was Made to Love Her" on Wild Honey and Carol Kaye's claims

[Billgoodman]

Writers and journalists *not* doing their homework???  What a revelation.  Don't you think we should direct the fault at them for not checking their facts?

The problem is that sometimes the best sources are considered the people who were there, and by using their discographies or bios, or by interviewing them writers think they are fact checking. There are probably dozens of sources, books, websites, wikipedia, documentaries, cd liners that credit Hal Blaine as being the drummer on I Get Around and Don't Worry Baby...but how many sources are there that credit Dennis Wilson? Well, my new book is one, there might be one or two more...but its like a 25 to 1 ratio. And guess what, if you listen to the session tape for Don't Worry Baby (which I only got a chance to because I actually found the lost multii-track tape)..its obvious that Dennis is the drummer on that session, you can hear him being talked to by Chuck Britz and Brian as they set levels and work out the intro arrangement. He's there, Hal's not...So I'm right, i did my research...but I'm probably in the minority for the rest of my life as a journalist who declares Dennis played on those songs and not Hal. And often when i point it out I get people asking me why am i disrespecting Hal? Or why do I think I know more than David Leaf? etc... etc... Its not an easy thing. Sometimes its like threading a needle. People like Craig Slowinski are doing a major service to the Beach Boys legacy, but he'll undoubtedly get tons of sh*t for pointing out that Carol Kaye did not play bass on the released version of Good Vibrations. The Wrecking Crew are so deified that even fact checking can get you on the wrong side of people.

Jon, two questions:

- will there be another revision of your dennis or david books, or can I just buy the old editions? They seem to be avaible in Holland
- Why does Hal Blaine get the credits for those songs anyway? Is he on the AFM contract?

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

I think your missing the point  Mikie!

 Do you think Badman had issues with her? I doubt it.

Well, I'm pretty sure she at least started preliminary proceedings for a lawsuit against him for putting the AFMs in his book.  Of course, the first edition did have her social security number on said AFMs...

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

- Why does Hal Blaine get the credits for those songs anyway? Is he on the AFM contract?

He's not on the AFM blanks for the songs you're talking about.  It's a matter of him being told that he played on "all the Beach Boys stuff" over the years, plus the fact that he did play on a heck of a lot of Beach Boys stuff.  (And lots of covers of Beach Boys stuff.)  Obviously, for all of the WC people, they played on way too many tracks to remember each one.  They might remember some of the highlights, but after thousands of sessions, they are going to blur.  And it's really not a huge deal if they don't get it right at this point, so long as they aren't actively impeding historical accuracy. 

[Tristero]

I'm just saying, the history books are what they are, but what standards do we apply to who gets a fair shake in those books? I'd say Jim Gordon hasn't gotten his due, and the morality debate enters into it when we consider whether his actions in later years should affect our perception of his *body of work*, no matter what those actions are or were. There is no right answer, but I'd say in Jim Gordon's case it would be worth considering his work as a drummer and musician on a separate sheet and put it into the historical context it deserves, because he was absolutely one of the best drummers in LA and among the best ever.

Again there is no right or wrong answer, but when should the history outweigh the events of later years?

Jim Gordon was indeed an outstanding musician with a very impressive resume (including great work with The Byrds, Frank Zappa, Steely Dan, Traffic and many more) and I think he's deserving of recognition.  I was surprised to see his name crop up so frequently on the TSS sessionography, since I'd always assumed that it was primarily Hal on drums there.  He committed an unfathomable crime, but while I don't know all of the details about his personal life, I believe he did suffer from acute schizophrenia.  For me, that means that he was probably incapable of controlling his actions.  This strikes me as a somewhat different case than Carol Kaye, who appears to intentionally distort to the facts and then viciously attacks those who attempt to set the record straight.  Since she appears to be of sound mind, she should be able to control her behavior better, but I guess these kinds of psychological questions can get pretty subjective.  I imagine that, in her own mind, she's absolutely right and justifiably defending her legacy.

[c-man]

Obviously, for all of the WC people, they played on way too many tracks to remember each one.  They might remember some of the highlights, but after thousands of sessions, they are going to blur.  And it's really not a huge deal if they don't get it right at this point, so long as they aren't actively impeding historical accuracy.  

Which is exactly why I was more than willing to give Carol the benefit of the doubt several years back when she was saying it was her, not Ray Pohlman, who played Fender bass on "Good Vibrations"....that and because I knew that there were MANY "Good Vibrations" sessions, and that the final single release was an edit from several of those sessions.  When I stated that I didn't expect her to remember all the details of every session she'd played on some thirty years previous, especially when she was playing up to five sessions a day, she testily responded that she never played "that" many sessions a day (only three to four at the most), and that I didn't know because (a) I wasn't there, and (b) I didn't have access to any of the AFM contracts, which were kept under lock and key and could only be legally viewed by Russ Wapensky.  At the time I didn't have access to any of the "Good Vibrations" AFMs, and I only knew (based on the credits and session excerpt included on the "Pet Sounds" box set) that Ray (not Carol) played on the verse sections.  A few years later, when I did obtain access to all the "Good Vibrations" AFMs and the lengthy session exceprts that appeared on a certain SOT boot, I pointed out that we now had irrevocable proof that Dennis Wilson did (as claimed by at least three of the other Beach Boys) play organ on the slow section of "Good Vibrations"; she responded that I was "wong", that it was Mike Melvoin who played organ on "Good Vibrations", that the verse sections were recorded at Western, not Gold Star (the opposite of what we know to be true), that I didn't know beause I wasn't there, and that her pal Russ Wapensky would set this all straight with his book on the L.A. recording scene post-WWII (which we are still waiting for more than a decade later).  I decided to let her be rather than prove her wrong, primarily because of the multiple sessions involving ever-changing musician lineups at several different recording studios involved in the "Good Vibrations" production (most of which SHE "wasn't there" for), and my decision that it wouldn't be fair to her to expect her to know about any sessions other than the three she was on (all three of which I assumed she played Fender bass at, but now know otherwise).  But when she started to claim other credits that demonstrably weren't hers (the Motown sessions especially) and when she started to act in an especially uncalled for, vindictive, belittling and horribly non-adult manner to Andrew and others, I realized that ANYTHING she says must now, objectively, be looked at in a skeptical light.  Then, once I heard ALL of the unedited "Good Vibrations" session tapes (straight from the vaults, earlier this year) I discovered that she only played Fender bass on one of the three "Good Vibrations" sessions she attended (she played 12-string electric guitar on the first of these three, and Dano bass on the second).  And, I also discovered that the ONE section of "her" three "Good Vibrations" sessions that I thought MIGHT have made it to the final edit (the chorus fade from the 5/24 Sunset Sound session) in fact did not...meaning she is NOT on the final 45 single version of "Good Vibrations" at all.  Nor is she (as she has claimed) the bassist on the Beach Boys' version of "I Was Made To Love Her", according to the AFM sheet, as well as one of the Beach Boys who WAS there.

[Mikie]

So after all these years of Carol saying she played on Good Vibrations, she technically did play on Good Vibrations, just not the final take, or released version of the song.

[c-man]

So after all these years of Carol saying she played on Good Vibrations, she technically did play on Good Vibrations, just not the final take, or released version of the song.

Yes, that is correct.

[Mikie]

Difference is, I have proof on my side: I do have photocopies of AFM contracts, as well as Stephen McParland's excellent book. She should brush up on the libel laws. Might come in handy in the future.

Yep. A lot of us have Steve's book (out of print last I heard). Wonder what Carol would say if she saw copies of some of those 'published' AFM contracts.     She knows about Badman already.  I have a first edition Badman - anyone else?

I remember Carol saying in the early 2000's, "Wait for Russ Wapensky's to come out". Carol had provided him with info and she seemed to have trusted his research at the time. Did Wapensky's book on sessions/musicians ever come out?

Edit: Whoops - just re-read C-man's post about the Wapensky book - it's yet to be published!

[The Shift]

Carol Kaye wants to believe she played bass on everyone's tracks?  Fine.  Her living in her fantasy land don't bother me none.

It wouldn't be a problem if everyone would know that Kaye is living in a fantasy world and shouldn't always be taken too seriously. But unfortionately there are writers and journalists who don't do their homework and write her claims down as if they are the facts, so that history gets distorted and some people don't get the credit they deserve.

What's also too bad is, if you read that link AGD posted a few pages back, there are people out there who have tried to be helpful to Ms. Kaye, and then she's banned them, or whatever, and then they end up specifically trying to avoid listening to music she's recorded.  Nobody should feel compelled to voluntarily exclude themselves from some of the greatest music ever recorded.

...but can't one, with all the modern tech gizmos, just excise ms Kaye's contributions? With an antikayolizer?

Well, you could certainly cut off all frequencies in the bass range.  I feel like the result would be rather tinny, though.

I had one of those antikayolizers once. It accidentally went off while I watching a DVD of Hans Christian Andersen – it was weird watching a movie with no lead character.

[The Heartical Don]

Carol Kaye wants to believe she played bass on everyone's tracks?  Fine.  Her living in her fantasy land don't bother me none.

It wouldn't be a problem if everyone would know that Kaye is living in a fantasy world and shouldn't always be taken too seriously. But unfortionately there are writers and journalists who don't do their homework and write her claims down as if they are the facts, so that history gets distorted and some people don't get the credit they deserve.

What's also too bad is, if you read that link AGD posted a few pages back, there are people out there who have tried to be helpful to Ms. Kaye, and then she's banned them, or whatever, and then they end up specifically trying to avoid listening to music she's recorded.  Nobody should feel compelled to voluntarily exclude themselves from some of the greatest music ever recorded.

...but can't one, with all the modern tech gizmos, just excise ms Kaye's contributions? With an antikayolizer?

Well, you could certainly cut off all frequencies in the bass range.  I feel like the result would be rather tinny, though.

I had one of those antikayolizers once. It accidentally went off while I watching a DVD of Hans Christian Andersen – it was weird watching a movie with no lead character.

 

[The Shift]

Difference is, I have proof on my side: I do have photocopies of AFM contracts, as well as Stephen McParland's excellent book. She should brush up on the libel laws. Might come in handy in the future.

Yep. A lot of us have Steve's book (out of print last I heard). Wonder what Carol would say if she saw copies of some of those 'published' AFM contracts.     She knows about Badman already.  I have a first edition Badman - anyone else?

I remember Carol saying in the early 2000's, "Wait for Russ Wapensky's to come out". Carol had provided him with info and she seemed to have trusted his research at the time. Did Wapensky's book on sessions/musicians ever come out?

Googled it and this was the first hit:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?action;topic=2137.0

[guitarfool2002]

I'm just saying, the history books are what they are, but what standards do we apply to who gets a fair shake in those books? I'd say Jim Gordon hasn't gotten his due, and the morality debate enters into it when we consider whether his actions in later years should affect our perception of his *body of work*, no matter what those actions are or were. There is no right answer, but I'd say in Jim Gordon's case it would be worth considering his work as a drummer and musician on a separate sheet and put it into the historical context it deserves, because he was absolutely one of the best drummers in LA and among the best ever.

Again there is no right or wrong answer, but when should the history outweigh the events of later years?

Jim Gordon was indeed an outstanding musician with a very impressive resume (including great work with The Byrds, Frank Zappa, Steely Dan, Traffic and many more) and I think he's deserving of recognition.  I was surprised to see his name crop up so frequently on the TSS sessionography, since I'd always assumed that it was primarily Hal on drums there.  He committed an unfathomable crime, but while I don't know all of the details about his personal life, I believe he did suffer from acute schizophrenia.  For me, that means that he was probably incapable of controlling his actions.  This strikes me as a somewhat different case than Carol Kaye, who appears to intentionally distort to the facts and then viciously attacks those who attempt to set the record straight.  Since she appears to be of sound mind, she should be able to control her behavior better, but I guess these kinds of psychological questions can get pretty subjective.  I imagine that, in her own mind, she's absolutely right and justifiably defending her legacy.

From what I understand his heavy drug use either brought on or amplified the issues Jim was dealing with when he committed the crime, but I'm not an MD nor a psychologist so I can only say what I've read and heard. The story is he heard voices in his head which drove him to the crime. I believe he may be up for parole/release in the near future, but I'll need to check on that. He apparently did not stop playing the drums.

And it is interesting to see just how many sessions Jim played for Brian in '66: He was Hal's protege, and like guitarists who were students of the first-call players like Tommy and Howard Roberts, the proteges or students of those first-calls might get the call if a guy like Hal could not do a session, and if he made an impression he'd get called back. That sounds like what happened to Jim: Hal probably helped him break into the scene giving him work, and Jim was so good he became established. Brian obviously liked his playing style enough to keep calling him back.

It was kind of sad to not see much if anything about Jim Gordon in Hal's book...

Let me clarify: I'm not in any way comparing Jim Gordon's case with the issues in this thread, but at the same time it is interesting to see them like this: In some cases, we have folks being over-credited or credited for things they were not involved with sometimes through no fault of their own and sometimes as a direct result of their own words, and in Jim's case and perhaps others we have a guy with literally dozens of classic recordings and sessions on his resume, which can be easily viewed, yet no one really talks about him or his body of work. In either case, where does the burden lie for the historians writing these historical accounts?

You have to ask: What is it about Jim Gordon? Arthur Lee is lionized by critics, and look at his criminal record. Bobby Beausoleil has a cult following for his music, look at what he did. Michael Jackson may just be the ultimate example of either deliberately erasing historical fact from the record, or choosing instead to separate the man's artistic legacy from any personal, criminal, or moral issues which may have surrounded his life.

I think if more people saw Jim Gordon's resume and credits, and how highly other musicians spoke of him, the perception would change.

[Andrew G. Doe]

... her pal Russ Wapensky would set this all straight with his book on the L.A. recording scene post-WWII (which we are still waiting for more than a decade later).

Something Carol has oddly never mentioned, although she has to know about it - the contract for the Wapensky book was cancelled in 2001 by his publishers, Greenwood (I asked them). That's a crying shame, as it would have been one helluva read.

So after all these years of Carol saying she played on Good Vibrations, she technically did play on Good Vibrations, just not the final take, or released version of the song.

She played on several "GV" sessions, of that there's no dispute. But she has always claimed that she played on the hit single, and the fact is, she didn't, technically or by any other criterion you care to name.

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

... her pal Russ Wapensky would set this all straight with his book on the L.A. recording scene post-WWII (which we are still waiting for more than a decade later).

Something Carol has oddly never mentioned, although she has to know about it - the contract for the Wapensky book was cancelled in 2003 by his publishers, Greentree (I asked them). That's a crying shame, as it would have been one helluva read.

If I weren't going to school for at least half of my life and had a little more money, I would be happy to take up that project.  But I think the best format for that sort of book would be a collaboration.  I picture sort of a companion book to Denny Tedesco's film.  The market for a book that is just lists of studio credits is probably not too attractive, but a large scale photo-based book, like the Beatles Anthology book, might work.  Working in a bookstore, I see tons of that size book coming out.  Nobody buys them of course, but they do get published.

What I picture would feature a lot of behind the scenes photos, a bunch of AFM sheets thrown in there, maybe a photo tour of LA using old photos of locations.  As many interviews as could be included and then analysis by a team of people, ranging from somebody like Denny, to somebody like C-man, Maybe a Mark A. Moore, guys like Mark Linett who could talk about the studio tech a bit, Somebody like the other Craig, Guitarfool, who could write about guitars and the like, maybe even somebody like me.

The key to a book about LA sessions would be to mix plenty of photos and broad info in with the arcane, and have it presented by a range of experts in an attractive book that appeals to a wide cross section of music fans.  Who's in?  Publishers, are you listening?

[guitarfool2002]

I'm in 110%, and the key to this might be the authors and researchers would be creating the book they always wanted to buy on this topic but it wasn't out there.

[Mikie]

She played on several "GV" sessions, of that there's no dispute. But she has always claimed that she played on the hit single, and the fact is, she didn't, technically or by any other criterion you care to name.

Well, I have all the Beach Boys books and most of the articles written on the subject of Good Vibrations (unarguably my favorite Beach Boys song) and it's sessions, and I've read and posted on these here message boards since 1996, and this is the first I've heard that Carol didn't play on the released version. Was C-man the first to come up with this recently, or has it been well known for a few years now? I musta missed this "fact" in my travels. Haven't opened my Smile box set since I bought it on November 1, haven't read the accompanying book, so this thread is the first I've heard about this. Carol has played that bass riff on video since the Pet Sounds box was released in '97, and I think there's currently 2 or 3 instances on YouTube where she's playing that riff, and it's pretty much assumed and acknowledged by viewers that she played on the released version. I'm curious as to when you guys first found out about this. Just curious - not defending anybody, not disputing it, nor do I hate anybody - just curious.  

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

The idea of Carol not being on GV at all first came up in my mind upon learning that it was Ray Pohlman on the verse, which is documented in the Pet Sounds box.  But as far as proof of matching up all the sessions to who was there and then to what was on the track, this may be the first time that's all been definitively put together.  But not playing the verse riff, starting up high on the neck, that at least has been out there for years.

[The Shift]

I can absolutely understand her confusion when you look at how many GVs sessions took place, over how many months, the fact that she did play at a few and the lengthy period of time that has passed since.

She wouldn't have been in on any of the editing sessions so wouldn't know whose contributions made the cut and whose didn't.

It's only Craig's diligent research that's turned this fact up in recent months.

Given the fact that BW himself has paid her plenty of respect and appeared in vid clips with her, I reckon that – just this once – we ought to forgive her mistakeness.

I reckon Andrew should nip round with a bunch of flowers, make her a brew and put her in the picture.   

[c-man]

She played on several "GV" sessions, of that there's no dispute. But she has always claimed that she played on the hit single, and the fact is, she didn't, technically or by any other criterion you care to name.

Well, I have all the Beach Boys books and most of the articles written on the subject of Good Vibrations (unarguably my favorite Beach Boys song) and it's sessions, and I've read and posted on these here message boards since 1996, and this is the first I've heard that Carol didn't play on the released version. Was C-man the first to come up with this recently, or has it been well known for a few years now? I musta missed this "fact" in my travels. Haven't opened my Smile box set since I bought it on November 1, haven't read the accompanying book, so this thread is the first I've heard about this. Carol has played that bass riff on video since the Pet Sounds box was released in '97, and I think there's currently 2 or 3 instances on YouTube where she's playing that riff, and it's pretty much assumed and acknowledged by viewers that she played on the released version. I'm curious as to when you guys first found out about this. Just curious - not defending anybody, not disputing it, nor do I hate anybody - just curious.  

In the year 2000 I began a serious undertaking to determine which sections of GV came from which sessions.  By then I had access to copies of all the AFM contracts, and all the sessions were represented in the SOT bootleg set.  After multiple indepth listenings, I believed I had it pretty well nailed down, and posted my findings on this board sometime thereafter (can't remember exactly which year).  The main differences in what I theorized then & what I know for fact now are:  then I thought it was Carl Wilson playing the Fender bass on the chorus in the released version (I also determined that he played Fender bass on the 6/16 Western session, as seen in the recently unearthed B&W session footage), and I also thought there was a good chance (not 100% but close) that the chorus fade came from the 5/24 Sunset Sound session (if so, those final 3 seconds or so of the single would have been the only part of the record that included Carol Kaye's work...at the time I assumed she played Fender bass on that session).  Then, this year, due to my involvement with the official box set project, I was allowed to listen to ALL of the unedited session tapes (in their unedited form, there's a good deal more to some sessions than what appeared on the SOT boot).  That's when I determined that it's Lyle Ritz playing Fender bass on the chorus section, recorded at Western on 6/2, under the working title "Inspiration") (Carl is playing rhythm guitar there, an element virtually buried in the final mono mix, but clearly audible on the unedited session tape), that's when I determined that Arthur Wright is playing Fender bass on the 5/27 Western session that produced the third bridge & chorus fade, that's when I determined that Carl Wilson is playing Fender bass on the 5/24 Sunset Sound version (and that Carol Kaye is actually playing Dano bass on that one), and that's also when Alan Boyd and I determined beyond doubt that the fade section comes from that same Western Recorders session as the chorus, not the 5/24 Sunset Sound session.  So, up until this year I was convinced that if Carol was on any part of the officially released 45 hit version of GV, it was just the final few seconds.  Now I'm convinced, beyond any doubt, that she does not appear on it at all. 

An interesting note:  a few years back, she wrote (possibly on her website) that she felt the session musicians who played on all the original studio recordings of hit records should be entitled to royalties, as they were essentially the actual "artists" (along with the singers, of course), and that she would be lobbying for the recording industry to make this happen.  Now, can you imagine all the violinists on all the hit records ever made being paid royalties?  A staggering thought.

[c-man]

There's no evidence to support her claim that she played on The Beach Boys' version of "I Was Made To Love Her" (yes, she has claimed to play on BOTH the Stevie Wonder original AND The Beach Boys' cover).  She claims The BBs version was cut at Western with her on bass & Hal on drums.  Accoriding to the AFM contract, it was cut at Heider's and no outside musicians were involved.  Not to say the AFM is uncategorically 100% accurate, but if she did play on The BBs version, she wasn't paid, at least not "legally" (through the Union), as she was on many of their sessions from December 1964 to May 1967.

If she "hates" James Jamerson, perhaps she "hates" Ray Pohlman too.  I wonder if she's seen my sessionography from the big SMiLE box yet, where I lay out exactly how many "Good Vibrations" sessions she played on...fact is, she played 12-string electric on the 4/9 Gold Star version (Ray Pohlman played the Fender bass on both the 2/17 and 4/9 sessions), Dano bass on the 5/24 Sunset Sound session (where Carl played Fender bass), and finally Fender bass on the 6/18 Western session.  That's it.  And NONE of those pieces made it to the final master edit.  So she's not on the single.  All of the Fender bass on the final, master single edit was played by Ray Pohlman, except for in the third bridge & chorus fade; the Fender bass
in those sections was played by Arthur Wright (a genuine Motown session alumnus).

But I'm no Russ Wapensky, so what do I know (no disrepesct to Mr. Wapensky).  I'm just some guy who listened to every single scrap of "Good Vibrations" and SMiLE session tape still in the vaults, and examined scans of all the corresponding AFM contracts in the Union archives (obtained through completely legal channels, I assure you).

Personally, I prefer to remember Carol Kaye as I heard her on the session tapes from all those years ago:  funny, polite, and one hell of a musician, one who added many colors to Brian's SMiLE palette (acoustic guitar, banjo, 12-string electric, Fender & Dano basses, even the sound of a board dropping).

OK, when typing my most recent post above, I realized there was a flaw in my previous post (quoted in this one)...I neglected to mention that Lyle Ritz played the Fender in the choruses...so, the Fender bassists on the final version are Ray, Lyle, and Arthur, with Dano bass by Bill Pitman and upright string bass by Lyle and Jimmy Bond. 

[guitarfool2002]

An interesting note:  a few years back, she wrote (possibly on her website) that she felt the session musicians who played on all the original studio recordings of hit records should be entitled to royalties, as they were essentially the actual "artists" (along with the singers, of course), and that she would be lobbying for the recording industry to make this happen.  Now, can you imagine all the violinists on all the hit records ever made being paid royalties?  A staggering thought.

Craig, not to excerpt just one point from your terrific post, but Paul Tanner said he received royalties for Good Vibrations, and all he did was play his Electro-Theremin and had not been listed as a writer. The only explanation I can offer is perhaps he got royalties from the use of GV in film and television? In that case, the checks would come in under the AFM contract for film/TV separate from needle-drop, sales, and radio airplays of recordings. But I'm not 100% sure. Any thoughts?

[Andrew G. Doe]

I can absolutely understand her confusion when you look at how many GVs sessions took place, over how many months, the fact that she did play at a few and the lengthy period of time that has passed since.

She wouldn't have been in on any of the editing sessions so wouldn't know whose contributions made the cut and whose didn't.

Didn't - and doesn't - stop her from saying she played on the released version, though, and somehow I don't see her going "gee whaddaya know, I was wrong all along ? Silly old me".  If i were Craig and Capitol records, I'd be expecting incoming any time soon.

You have to remember, Carol knows. She was there.

Except, of course, when she wasn't. 

[c-man]

An interesting note:  a few years back, she wrote (possibly on her website) that she felt the session musicians who played on all the original studio recordings of hit records should be entitled to royalties, as they were essentially the actual "artists" (along with the singers, of course), and that she would be lobbying for the recording industry to make this happen.  Now, can you imagine all the violinists on all the hit records ever made being paid royalties?  A staggering thought.

Craig, not to excerpt just one point from your terrific post, but Paul Tanner said he received royalties for Good Vibrations, and all he did was play his Electro-Theremin and had not been listed as a writer. The only explanation I can offer is perhaps he got royalties from the use of GV in film and television? In that case, the checks would come in under the AFM contract for film/TV separate from needle-drop, sales, and radio airplays of recordings. But I'm not 100% sure. Any thoughts?

Come to think of it, I think that was Carol's main point, that they should get royalties for TV & film uses...if Mr. Tanner's getting royalties, I wonder when that started?

[Mikie]

In the year 2000 I began a serious undertaking to determine which sections of GV came from which sessions.  By then I had access to copies of all the AFM contracts, and all the sessions were represented in the SOT bootleg set.  After multiple indepth listenings, I believed I had it pretty well nailed down, and posted my findings on this board sometime thereafter (can't remember exactly which year).  The main differences in what I theorized then & what I know for fact now are:  then I thought it was Carl Wilson playing the Fender bass on the chorus in the released version (I also determined that he played Fender bass on the 6/16 Western session, as seen in the recently unearthed B&W session footage), and I also thought there was a good chance (not 100% but close) that the chorus fade came from the 5/24 Sunset Sound session (if so, those final 3 seconds or so of the single would have been the only part of the record that included Carol Kaye's work...at the time I assumed she played Fender bass on that session).  Then, this year, due to my involvement with the official box set project, I was allowed to listen to ALL of the unedited session tapes (in their unedited form, there's a good deal more to some sessions than what appeared on the SOT boot).  That's when I determined that it's Lyle Ritz playing Fender bass on the chorus section, recorded at Western on 6/2, under the working title "Inspiration") (Carl is playing rhythm guitar there, an element virtually buried in the final mono mix, but clearly audible on the unedited session tape), that's when I determined that Arthur Wright is playing Fender bass on the 5/27 Western session that produced the third bridge & chorus fade, that's when I determined that Carl Wilson is playing Fender bass on the 5/24 Sunset Sound version (and that Carol Kaye is actually playing Dano bass on that one), and that's also when Alan Boyd and I determined beyond doubt that the fade section comes from that same Western Recorders session as the chorus, not the 5/24 Sunset Sound session.  So, up until this year I was convinced that if Carol was on any part of the officially released 45 hit version of GV, it was just the final few seconds.  Now I'm convinced, beyond any doubt, that she does not appear on it at all. 

Thank you for the detailed explanation, Craig. Thought maybe the released Good Vibrations sessions on various comps and the SOT set covered most of it, but there's much more, eh? Would be interesting to hear more of the sessions, especially if they reveal more instruments in the mix. When you and Boyd and Linett revisited the GV tapes for the SMiLE release, the frustration of not having the vocal sessions available probably resurfaced. 

[Jon Stebbins]

Jon, two questions:

- will there be another revision of your dennis or david books, or can I just buy the old editions? They seem to be avaible in Holland
- Why does Hal Blaine get the credits for those songs anyway? Is he on the AFM contract?

The Dennis Wilson book is being revised and expanded for a new edition due out next year. I've been working on it (on and off ) for several years, and many other projects have interrupted its progress (see last year's Dennis Wilson documentary and/or my new Beach Boys FAQ book). But the new edition of The Real Beach Boy is getting closer to being ready, and I have a publisher for it (who keeps bugging me to hurry up and get it done)...so its coming.

No plans to revise the Dave Marks book...just buy the old one...I'm real proud of that book.

As Aeijtzsche mentioned the reason Hal gets credit for playing drums on so many Beach Boys tracks that are actually Dennis is because somewhere along the line journalists (see David Leaf) began reporting that Hal took over as the BB's studio drummer after the first couple of LP's...which is extremely untrue. Hal plays on one or two songs on the third LP, one or two on the fourth, maybe three on the fifth etc... Dennis is the drummer on the majority of the Beach Boys stuff until '65 at which time he splits things about 50/50 with Hal, and really it isn't until Pet Sounds that Hal becomes the usual Beach Boys studio drummer, although a couple other drummers pitch in too....which only lasts until Smile breaks down. Dennis plays drums on the majority of the Beach Boys classics from '62 to '65, that's a fact. Hal plays on many of the classics too. My new FAQ book gives you a good breakdown of which ones are Dennis. Unlike Carol, Hal will readily admit he can't remember exactly which ones are him and which are Dennis, but he'd been told they were virtually ALL him for so long that he assumed that was true, but as I said it is not.