"I Was Made to Love Her" on Wild Honey and Carol Kaye's claims

[bgas]

Personally, I prefer to remember Carol Kaye as I heard her on the session tapes from all those years ago:  funny, polite, and one hell of a musician, one who added many colors to Brian's SMiLE palette (acoustic guitar, banjo, 12-string electric, Fender & Dano basses, even the sound of a board dropping).

Sure, but given what you know of her, will you be able to?
I know I can't: and I know a lot less than you, AGD and many others that have studied this in-depth

[Andrew G. Doe]

Question: while Ms.Kaye being on the Beach Boys version is extremely unlikely given the era of the band and the fact that it's been said she's NOT on it, who did play bass on the song? Or who are the likely candidates?

Bruce or Alan, I'm guessing.

[Tristero]

Personally, I prefer to remember Carol Kaye as I heard her on the session tapes from all those years ago:  funny, polite, and one hell of a musician, one who added many colors to Brian's SMiLE palette (acoustic guitar, banjo, 12-string electric, Fender & Dano basses, even the sound of a board dropping).

Sure, but given what you know of her, will you be able to?
I know I can't: and I know a lot less than you, AGD and many others that have studied this in-depth

Well, nobody ever said that the musicians who created the music we love so much were saints.  We pour over the details of their personal lives on sites like this and sometimes it can be disillusioning (I can think of a few anecdotes about BW that I would rather forget!), but in the end, all that really matters is their music.  This is certainly not to excuse CK's distortions and vicious attacks, but I still enjoy what she brought to the sessions back then.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Exactly - her contribution to the music of LA is immense (hell, if all she'd ever done was the Mission: Impossible theme she'd still be a legend) and deserving of unstinting praise, the moreso for being a woman in a male-dominated world.

But... why she continues to claim credits it's been irrefutably proven time and time again are not due her (Jamerson, The Doors, sundry BB tracks), and why she's so astonishingly unpleasant to anyone who has the temerity to point this out, is a complete mystery. Her diatribes against Torrentfreak and Google tell me that her grasp of how the internet functions is at best shaky, but that's no excuse for being so rude and vindictive.

[The Heartical Don]

Exactly - her contribution to the music of LA is immense (hell, if all she'd ever done was the Mission: Impossible theme she'd still be a legend) and deserving of unstinting praise, the moreso for being a woman in a male-dominated world.

But... why she continues to claim credits it's been irrefutably proven time and time again are not due her (Jamerson, The Doors, sundry BB tracks), and why she's so astonishingly unpleasant to anyone who has the temerity to point this out, is a complete mystery. Her diatribes against Torrentfreak and Google tell me that her grasp of how the internet functions is at best shaky, but that's no excuse for being so rude and vindictive.

Good points, well made.

BTW: is it true that she also claims to have played bass on 'Light My Fire', where that song doesn't feature a bass?

(Excuses if this sounds silly, I heard the anecdote 10 years ago and barely listened to said song ever, I don't like the Doors. But the idea is funny.)

[runnersdialzero]

A diatribe against Google? This sounds interesting.

[Magic Transistor Radio]

 "...an "expert" on the Beach Boys' stuff who lives in England and is a bully to a lot of fans, setting himself up as some sort of "god" to history..."

I think there is some truth to what she said. 

[The Heartical Don]

"...an "expert" on the Beach Boys' stuff who lives in England and is a bully to a lot of fans, setting himself up as some sort of "god" to history..."

I think there is some truth to what she said. 

  well, if you put it this way (sorry AGD), it's mighty funny in itself... selective citing can be hilarious indeed...

[Andrew G. Doe]

"...an "expert" on the Beach Boys' stuff who lives in England and is a bully to a lot of fans, setting himself up as some sort of "god" to history..."

I think there is some truth to what she said. 

No argument here. But I think even my most active detractors would be hard pressed to agree with "This purported self-appointed "expert"....this current phony posting on one board or more is posing as an "expert" on the Beach Boys' stuff who lives in England... Haha, never ceases to amaze me about these types of guys living on their lies and subterfuge of posing as a guru of information that is totally false but is obsessed to pretend to be a vip.... the Internet helps them set up with their pure lies so they can "enchant" the masses for awhile...and it's not good for people like Brian to have these types mislead people either....They are really self-delusional guys who eventually get laughed at -- hard to believe that people actually do fall for their lies tho' for awhile.... Yes, he just can't stand to be "corrected" -- yet (and most are finding this out too) he makes outlandish claims which are all lies all the time.... I guess the truth is very threatening to him...So easy to fool people on the internet which takes time to ferret out if it's lies or truth...I think he's really on his way out now tho'. Sad case."

So I invented the Capitol label, and this band "The Beach Boys" and all their releases and chart positions ?  Damn, I'm better than I thought I was. 

Keep in mind the parts I've highlighted the next time Kaye claims to have played on MoTown hits recorded in Detroit, or on "Surfin' USA", or "IWMTLH". Remind you of anyone ? 

BTW, if I'm a "God" to history (something my avatar naturally confirms), not entirely sure how the truth can be "very threatening" to me. But then, I wasn't there at the time, was I ? 

[D Cunningham]

Hey AD:  Did you get that case of Maple Syrup that I sent?

[bgas]

"...an "expert" on the Beach Boys' stuff who lives in England and is a bully to a lot of fans, setting himself up as some sort of "god" to history..."

I think there is some truth to what she said. 

BTW, if I'm a "God" to history (something my avatar naturally confirms), not entirely sure how the truth can be "very threatening" to me. But then, I wasn't there at the time, was I ? 

You always have and always will be there, no matter your detractors; you're a God , after all! 

[Loaf]

BTW: is it true that she also claims to have played bass on 'Light My Fire', where that song doesn't feature a bass?

(Excuses if this sounds silly, I heard the anecdote 10 years ago and barely listened to said song ever, I don't like the Doors. But the idea is funny.)

There is bass on most/all(?) Doors studio tracks. Doug Lubahn is credited on the first album. You can hear it on Light My Fire, a bass instrument in the right channel e.g. listen at 0:10-0:16, it's kind of Beach Boysy almost, so it's not Ray on the organ. The Doors didn't have a bass player in their live shows.

[The Heartical Don]

BTW: is it true that she also claims to have played bass on 'Light My Fire', where that song doesn't feature a bass?

(Excuses if this sounds silly, I heard the anecdote 10 years ago and barely listened to said song ever, I don't like the Doors. But the idea is funny.)

There is bass on most/all(?) Doors studio tracks. Doug Lubahn is credited on the first album. You can hear it on Light My Fire, a bass instrument in the right channel e.g. listen at 0:10-0:16, it's kind of Beach Boysy almost, so it's not Ray on the organ. The Doors didn't have a bass player in their live shows.

Cheers for that!

[grooveblaster]

wow, Motown didn't move out to LA until '72, right? So she is claiming she played on Motown stuff that was recorded in Detroit?

[Andrew G. Doe]

Hey AD:  Did you get that case of Maple Syrup that I sent?

 

[anazgnos]

Next thing you know, Carol will claim she played bass on all the White Stripes albums.

[Andrew G. Doe]

BTW: is it true that she also claims to have played bass on 'Light My Fire', where that song doesn't feature a bass?

(Excuses if this sounds silly, I heard the anecdote 10 years ago and barely listened to said song ever, I don't like the Doors. But the idea is funny.)

There is bass on most/all(?) Doors studio tracks. Doug Lubahn is credited on the first album. You can hear it on Light My Fire, a bass instrument in the right channel e.g. listen at 0:10-0:16, it's kind of Beach Boysy almost, so it's not Ray on the organ. The Doors didn't have a bass player in their live shows.

Bass was admitted to on just the one track on The Doors, albeit in later years, and Lubahn didn't play on that one (rather, the next three). Lately it's emerged that because the Fender Rhodes bass keyboard recorded so badly, Larry Knetchel was called in on the quiet to overdub bass onto six tracks, including "Light My Fire". Kaye claims to have played on it, but she didn't.

[Jon Stebbins]

Question: while Ms.Kaye being on the Beach Boys version is extremely unlikely given the era of the band and the fact that it's been said she's NOT on it, who did play bass on the song? Or who are the likely candidates?

Bruce or Alan, I'm guessing.

I'd guess that its Carl on bass, Dennis on drums. My reasoning is that Carl was the BB's resident Motown fan, and he learned those parts for fun...I doubt Al ever did, Bruce isn't exactly known for his soul. C-man might have additional insight.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Question: while Ms.Kaye being on the Beach Boys version is extremely unlikely given the era of the band and the fact that it's been said she's NOT on it, who did play bass on the song? Or who are the likely candidates?

Bruce or Alan, I'm guessing.

I'd guess that its Carl on bass, Dennis on drums. My reasoning is that Carl was the BB's resident Motown fan, and he learned those parts for fun...I doubt Al ever did, Bruce isn't exactly known for his soul. C-man might have additional insight.

Your guess trumps my guess. 

[guitarfool2002]

Since it was a Wild Honey track, how about that guy "Ron", who Bruce mentioned years ago as having been hired to play some bass tracks on WH? Not to deny Carl a credit, but that bass line is a bit more advanced than perhaps Carl was as a bassist in 1967.

[Jon Stebbins]

Question: while Ms.Kaye being on the Beach Boys version is extremely unlikely given the era of the band and the fact that it's been said she's NOT on it, who did play bass on the song? Or who are the likely candidates?

Bruce or Alan, I'm guessing.

I'd guess that its Carl on bass, Dennis on drums. My reasoning is that Carl was the BB's resident Motown fan, and he learned those parts for fun...I doubt Al ever did, Bruce isn't exactly known for his soul. C-man might have additional insight.

Your guess trumps my guess.  

Until C-man settles this, your guess is as good as mine.

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

Right,

My best theory has been that Ron Brown was in there, uncredited since he was already being paid for going on the road or something.  I have a hard time imagining Carl playing that line...

[Jon Stebbins]

Since it was a Wild Honey track, how about that guy "Ron", who Bruce mentioned years ago as having been hired to play some bass tracks on WH? Not to deny Carl a credit, but that bass line is a bit more advanced than perhaps Carl was as a bassist in 1967.

Ron Brown is a possibility, although the IWMTLH session contract only lists Beach Boys as I recall.

[Jon Stebbins]

Right,

My best theory has been that Ron Brown was in there, uncredited since he was already being paid for going on the road or something.  I have a hard time imagining Carl playing that line...

Had you ever imagined Carl playing bass on Good Vibrations until now? Although i guess his bit didn't make the single.

[guitarfool2002]

This is true but taking the evidence of the latter half of '67 into account, the evidence where we can hear Carl playing bass, he wasn't doing anything close to melodic, syncopated lines in the way Jamerson and McCartney were doing, and the style of bass on IWMTLH seems a little beyond where Carl was at as a bassist in '67. I could see Ron playing it, as a dedicated bassist. Carl's GV part at least that seeming to be captured on film doesn't have that Motown feel, but heck yeah I was surprised to see him in the studio!