When was Dennis Point of no return?

[cablegeddon]

Why did  Rocky and Stanley beat up Dennis? This was something I never understood out of reading the Gaines book.

[bgas]

Why did  Rocky and Stanley beat up Dennis? This was something I never understood out of reading the Gaines book.

Because they are and always have been stupid worthless fucks, and the sooner they're gone from this world, the better for the rest of us

[hypehat]

Why did  Rocky and Stanley beat up Dennis? This was something I never understood out of reading the Gaines book.

Whilst bgas ain't wrong, I believe the 'reason' was for supplying Brian with drugs. They also hated his guts, though.

[SMiLE Brian]

Personally, if I could without legal consquences, I would kick Rocky Pamplin's ass and say "This is for Dennis, Motherf*cker!!!"  Rocky also punched out Carl and had an affair with Brian's wife.

[runnersdialzero]

All true. While the situation probably did need attention, their methods are the very definition of "totally fucking overboard". Dennis being Dennis, losing his ability to *sing* was probably a huge blow to his well-being. Not at all on a "STAN AND ROCKY KILLED DENNIS" rant, here, but damn - that couldn't have been easy for him and couldn't have helped his confidence.

And yeah, these kids didn't strike me as good choices at all.

"Brian needs to be looked after and there needs to be some peace within this band."

"Cool. Excuse me while I f*** Brian's wife and kick Dennis in the throat. Can I sing on one of your songs, too? Cool."

And people go after Mike! As if this sh*t wasn't bad enough, who the hell voluntarily chooses to go by "Rocky"?

[runnersdialzero]

Wasn't aware of him punching Carl. Carl! If there was ever a level-headed and diplomatic guy in the Beach Boys story, I'm pretty sure it was Carl Wilson. What was the reasoning behind that little gem of an incident?

[Mike's Beard]

That was the David Frost incident. Carl had allegedly scored some bad dope through a roadie (if I remember correctly it made Brian very ill). As Rocky and the other idiot were in charge of keeping Brian clean at the time, everyone was mega pissed. At a band meeting to discuss the fallout Carl was very drunk, said the wrong thing to Rocky and got sucker punched.

[Ed Roach]

Cigarettes didn't help, but a debilitating punch to the throat is not "drama" its an established fact. To say its all due to cigarettes because you saw "an up close photo" doesn't square with the additional fact that Carl smoked as much as Dennis. As usual the answer is never black and white...DW's damage or raspiness was due to lifestyle as well as the fact that he had a serious injury (or two) that permanently altered his voice. A trace of rasp was already there in '64 and built slowly into '73 or '74...by '77 it was more gruff than rasp...and by '81 the voice was completely gone.

Additionally, the initial damaging throat punch was delivered much earlier that the Stan & Rocky episode.  That incident seems to have fallen by the wayside...

[runnersdialzero]

That was the David Frost incident. Carl had allegedly scored some bad dope through a roadie (if I remember correctly it made Brian very ill). As Rocky and the other idiot were in charge of keeping Brian clean at the time, everyone was mega pissed. At a band meeting to discuss the fallout Carl was very drunk, said the wrong thing to Rocky and got sucker punched.

Beautiful. Who appointed these jokers? Wasn't it apparent that being slapped around by some brutal asshole didn't do the Wilson boys a damn bit of good 20-25 years prior?

[Paul J B]

Smoking and drinking and drugs at a preposterous rate for years killed Denny's voice. It ruined his looks as well. I remember seeing close up photos of him in '83 and he had that smokers skin, the premature wrinkles. Because he had periods along the way when his voice seemed better or worse at times means nothing. To suggest a punch to the throat at some point did his voice in is searching for a more "dramatic" answer, when the obvious is staring right at you. Look at how many pictures in the new Smile book show Denny with a cigarette.

Cigarettes didn't help, but a debilitating punch to the throat is not "drama" its an established fact. To say its all due to cigarettes because you saw "an up close photo" doesn't square with the additional fact that Carl smoked as much as Dennis. As usual the answer is never black and white...DW's damage or raspiness was due to lifestyle as well as the fact that he had a serious injury (or two) that permanently altered his voice. A trace of rasp was already there in '64 and built slowly into '73 or '74...by '77 it was more gruff than rasp...and by '81 the voice was completely gone.

I didn't say it was all due to cigarettes. I said drinking, smoking and drugs. And I'm not trying to argue that a punch or 2 along the way could not have happened or caused 'some' damage. My issue is that the conversation was going in the direction that the lifestyle did not help but that the punch from those idiots did his voice in, when common sense would tell you it was the other way around. Some medical records or detail about what was damaged by a punch that would correspond to a permanent change in one's singing or speaking ability might convince me otherwise. Until then I'll stick with the sad reality that Brian and Denny both seriously damaged their voices through their major substance abuse problems.

Stevie Nicks sounded like her old self in '82 and by '85 her voice was gone. The culprit..cocaine. That was sad to watch too.

[MBE]

Cigarettes didn't help, but a debilitating punch to the throat is not "drama" its an established fact. To say its all due to cigarettes because you saw "an up close photo" doesn't square with the additional fact that Carl smoked as much as Dennis. As usual the answer is never black and white...DW's damage or raspiness was due to lifestyle as well as the fact that he had a serious injury (or two) that permanently altered his voice. A trace of rasp was already there in '64 and built slowly into '73 or '74...by '77 it was more gruff than rasp...and by '81 the voice was completely gone.

Additionally, the initial damaging throat punch was delivered much earlier that the Stan & Rocky episode.  That incident seems to have fallen by the wayside...

Right I think you and Steve Desper both said to me sometime in 1974.

[Jon Stebbins]

Smoking and drinking and drugs at a preposterous rate for years killed Denny's voice. It ruined his looks as well. I remember seeing close up photos of him in '83 and he had that smokers skin, the premature wrinkles. Because he had periods along the way when his voice seemed better or worse at times means nothing. To suggest a punch to the throat at some point did his voice in is searching for a more "dramatic" answer, when the obvious is staring right at you. Look at how many pictures in the new Smile book show Denny with a cigarette.

Cigarettes didn't help, but a debilitating punch to the throat is not "drama" its an established fact. To say its all due to cigarettes because you saw "an up close photo" doesn't square with the additional fact that Carl smoked as much as Dennis. As usual the answer is never black and white...DW's damage or raspiness was due to lifestyle as well as the fact that he had a serious injury (or two) that permanently altered his voice. A trace of rasp was already there in '64 and built slowly into '73 or '74...by '77 it was more gruff than rasp...and by '81 the voice was completely gone.

I didn't say it was all due to cigarettes. I said drinking, smoking and drugs. And I'm not trying to argue that a punch or 2 along the way could not have happened or caused 'some' damage. My issue is that the conversation was going in the direction that the lifestyle did not help but that the punch from those idiots did his voice in, when common sense would tell you it was the other way around. Some medical records or detail about what was damaged by a punch that would correspond to a permanent change in one's singing or speaking ability might convince me otherwise. Until then I'll stick with the sad reality that Brian and Denny both seriously damaged their voices through their major substance abuse problems.

I'd say the result of the injury or injuries was greatly magnified by a lack of rehabilitation, which only bolsters elements of your point and mine.

[Mikie]

I missed that or misread or forgot. What incident preceded the Pamplin/Love punching of Dennis? It was 1974? Who provoked it?

[Jon Stebbins]

I missed that or misread or forgot. What incident preceded the Pamplin/Love punching of Dennis? It was 1974? Who provoked it?

The well documented Rocky Pamplin/Stan Love beating was 1981, and the 1974 incident was when Steve (not Stan) Love reportedly sucker punched Dennis in the throat... at a restaurant I believe. Both did lasting damage from all accounts.

[SMiLE Brian]

I missed that or misread or forgot. What incident preceded the Pamplin/Love punching of Dennis? It was 1974? Who provoked it?

The well documented Rocky Pamplin/Stan Love beating was 1981, and the 1974 incident was when Steve (not Stan) Love reportedly sucker punched Dennis in the throat... at a restaurant I believe. Both did lasting damage from all accounts.

Yikes, the love family was out to get Dennis. Jon, I ordered your book and I am excited to read it.

[runnersdialzero]

Supposedly the Stevester went to the bathroom and when he came back, he caught Dennis eating his pancakes.

[bgas]

I missed that or misread or forgot. What incident preceded the Pamplin/Love punching of Dennis? It was 1974? Who provoked it?

The well documented Rocky Pamplin/Stan Love beating was 1981, and the 1974 incident was when Steve (not Stan) Love reportedly sucker punched Dennis in the throat... at a restaurant I believe. Both did lasting damage from all accounts.

Death to both Stan and Steve, then; a long slow, torturing, miserable, painful one, starting with a major punch to their throats severely limiting their ability to breathe.

[Jon Stebbins]

I missed that or misread or forgot. What incident preceded the Pamplin/Love punching of Dennis? It was 1974? Who provoked it?

The well documented Rocky Pamplin/Stan Love beating was 1981, and the 1974 incident was when Steve (not Stan) Love reportedly sucker punched Dennis in the throat... at a restaurant I believe. Both did lasting damage from all accounts.

Yikes, the love family was out to get Dennis. Jon, I ordered your book and I am excited to read it.

Thanks, I hope you enjoy it!

[Heysaboda]

...... I hope my book will give some clarity as to why it went wrong for Dennis, Brian, and the group as a whole. I can't offer a clean all purpose solution, but my goal was that to provoke more reasoned thinking about the band.

Mike, forgive my ignorance, is your book out now, or expected soon?  thanks!

[MBE]

...... I hope my book will give some clarity as to why it went wrong for Dennis, Brian, and the group as a whole. I can't offer a clean all purpose solution, but my goal was that to provoke more reasoned thinking about the band.

Mike, forgive my ignorance, is your book out now, or expected soon?  thanks!

It is being considered by a few places. I hope it will sell in the next few months and be out next year. It's creating quite a buzz lately so my hopes are high for it.