Barnyard Mistake in Pressing of Smile Sessions CD?

[37!ws]

Or a brief glimpse of a boom mike after you had re-watched it.. paused it.. rewound and paused again.

That's a dependent clause there, my friend. You need an independent clause in front of it.

You can find flaws in EVERYTHING... If you look.. Some people are geared that way

By god, you're right.

[37!ws]

Speaking of Smile glitches, am I the only one who noticed the glaring ones at the beginning and toward the end of BWPS? (Still hasn't affected my ability to enjoy that album, though. Love it just as much now as the first time I heard it. And damned if it hasn't competed against Pet Sounds as my favorite album ever.)

[The Shift]

I want to pose this: say we were instead discussing a period film that is set in Victorian times. The costumes and set design are impeccable, beautifully done, historically accurate, true example of masterwork in every sense...and then you see that one of the main characters is visibly wearing Nike sneakers. I know, i know, this happens in Hollywood films quite often. But now imagine that it keeps happening in every other scene. Would that not absolutely baffle the hell out of you, not to mention frustrate you?

I hear the difference. I just don't think it's as big a deal as you make it out to be.

And I don't think your comparison is fair. The aural equivalent of Nike shoes in a Victorian movie would be more like hearing half a second of "Good Vibrations" in the middle of "Wind Chimes". These errors are like seeing a small, flickering black spot in one frame of a movie -- visible? Of course, but hardly a major disruption.

Whether I'm hearing these glitches or not (more on that much later) my sympathies lie with Monicker here for sure.

Let me use a different comparison to his. Suppose you were in a top restaurant and ordered the best dish on the menu. It arrives, you marvel at the presentation, salivate and tuck in.

After a few forkfuls you find a tiny fly hidden among (let's say) the vega-tables. You look around the rest of the plate, and find a wee slug among the cabbage. A hair in the sauce. Worse, a fingernail fragment among the parmesan shavings.

All teeny tiny flaws and you wouldn't have noticed them if you'd been staring into your girl's eyes and shovelling the food down your throat without looking at it. But are you really going to enjoy that wonderful, lovingly prepared meal quite the same now, now that you know?

The guy at the next table is wolfing his down enthusiastically, in ignorance – do you say nothing for fear of upsetting him and embarrassing the (professional) chef? Or do you point it out?

[Jonas]

None of these comparisons make sense, people.

[Austin]

After a few forkfuls you find a tiny fly hidden among (let's say) the vega-tables. You look around the rest of the plate, and find a wee slug among the cabbage. A hair in the sauce. Worse, a fingernail fragment among the parmesan shavings.

All teeny tiny flaws and you wouldn't have noticed them if you'd been staring into your girl's eyes and shovelling the food down your throat without looking at it. But are you really going to enjoy that wonderful, lovingly prepared meal quite the same now, now that you know?

But that's still an unfair comparison. Anyone would be able to find problems that egregious without prompting, and they would be absolutely appalled. As it's been proven on this forum and plenty of reviews, virtually no one is noticing these problems unless they're explicitly pointed out on a) hi-fi audio equipment, or b) good headphones, and when they are, the reaction to them is much more muted and sensible.

A fair restaurant comparison would be more like eating a world-class steamed vegetable plate and realizing a couple of the carrots came out cold. Noticeable, yes, something I would point out afterwards to my server. But not a deal-breaker by any stretch of the imagination.

I'm not arguing something isn't there, or that it's unfair to point it out. But there's a difference between pointing it out as an aside in a general critique, and writing ten paragraphs about it.

[sockittome]

Hey at least they took that annoying drawn out cough out of Worms!  Be happy!

[The Shift]

Hey at least they took that annoying drawn out cough out of Worms!  Be happy!

You found a worm in yours?

 

[SloopJohnB]

Just thought I'd add a little something. So you guys think the Cabinessence hiss can't be heard in "normal conditions"?

There I am, putting my Smile CD in my car's CD player. It's a 2001 mid-range car, with the stock speakers, and an Alpine head unit. A pretty basic setup. The presets for the head unit are the default ones, no custom eq's. Volume set at 9, the max level being something like 30. The disc starts playing, I'm driving along (windy day, so lots of aerodynamic noises, plus the sound of the tires on the road, and the sound of the engine - about 4000 rpm @ 75 mph), the songs flow into each other brilliantly, I'm not even thinking about the hiss, as if I had completely forgotten its presence. Then the Cabinessence chorus comes on, and *CLICK* - I heard the click, over ALL these noises, without even thinking about it / waiting for it. It was LOUD.

So, yeah, I think it can be heard without headphones.

[Austin]

So, yeah, I think it can be heard without headphones.

Fair enough then, my mistake. I stand by the rest of my point though: it's a little overblown to be upset over approximately two seconds of click and hiss.

[The Shift]

Suppose you're having a lovely snooze in the sun and someone sticks a pin in your hand and wiggles it, just for a couple of seconds, mind...

[Wirestone]

Just thought I'd add a little something. So you guys think the Cabinessence hiss can't be heard in "normal conditions"?

There I am, putting my Smile CD in my car's CD player. It's a 2001 mid-range car, with the stock speakers, and an Alpine head unit. A pretty basic setup. The presets for the head unit are the default ones, no custom eq's. Volume set at 9, the max level being something like 30. The disc starts playing, I'm driving along (windy day, so lots of aerodynamic noises, plus the sound of the tires on the road, and the sound of the engine - about 4000 rpm @ 75 mph), the songs flow into each other brilliantly, I'm not even thinking about the hiss, as if I had completely forgotten its presence. Then the Cabinessence chorus comes on, and *CLICK* - I heard the click, over ALL these noises, without even thinking about it / waiting for it. It was LOUD.

So, yeah, I think it can be heard without headphones.

I find this very hard to believe.

[anazgnos]

I'm torn because I've been in monicker's exact position in these kinds of arguments before.  I am no fan of glitches of shoddy mastering at all.  But I'm not finding myself particularly bothered by any of this.  I've listened to the reconstruction 3 or 4 times now and it has yet to really penetrate my enjoyment.  For the most part it just seems like a natural consequence of doing this level of restoration from this many different old tape sources which may not be in the best condition anymore.  Little things like this are bound to crop up.

Now, I will say the last chorus of "Child" with the extra vocals has a kind of crunchy, fuzzy sound to it, I'm guessing this segment was patched in from acetate or something?  The sound is less than ideal, but I'm also really glad those vocals are there.

[rab2591]

Just thought I'd add a little something. So you guys think the Cabinessence hiss can't be heard in "normal conditions"?

There I am, putting my Smile CD in my car's CD player. It's a 2001 mid-range car, with the stock speakers, and an Alpine head unit. A pretty basic setup. The presets for the head unit are the default ones, no custom eq's. Volume set at 9, the max level being something like 30. The disc starts playing, I'm driving along (windy day, so lots of aerodynamic noises, plus the sound of the tires on the road, and the sound of the engine - about 4000 rpm @ 75 mph), the songs flow into each other brilliantly, I'm not even thinking about the hiss, as if I had completely forgotten its presence. Then the Cabinessence chorus comes on, and *CLICK* - I heard the click, over ALL these noises, without even thinking about it / waiting for it. It was LOUD.

So, yeah, I think it can be heard without headphones.

I find this very hard to believe.

I easily heard it on my computer speakers while listening to the itunes sample and the itunesLP walkthrough video (at a reasonable volume). Then (finally got the boxset!!!) I heard it on my studio headphones.

I'm not crying about it. I'm not pissed about it. There are FAR more flubs in Pet Sounds, yet we're not crying/whining about that. Yes, I know the argument: "Pet Sounds was rushed." "This is '11, not '66." - What difference does it make? Just listen to the music.

Whatev.

[theCOD]

I find this very hard to believe.

I've heard it in the car and on my netbook speakers.

Good news is I fixed the hiss dropout and edit issues, and tonight I'm getting rid of the Grand Coolie vocals in the second chorus, so it's all good.

[richardsnow]

What did annoy me is that on the stereo mix of "heroes and villains sections" the bicyle rider section comes in a hair to early, making it sound like the Cd skipped.

can now hear the infamous click if I listen on my bext headphones from my studio.  Very miniscule though, never gonna upset me.

[TerryWogan]

Digital clicks are nice 'n' easy to fix, so if anyone who's particularly distraught by them wants to provide a list of tracks/times when they occur, I can clean 'em up for you without much hassle. I only have the 2CD set, mind.

[Andrew G. Doe]

More true gen, concerning the following:

This is an ultra condensed version of the post that follows.

I would like to invite those who have been so dismissive of what i’ve been saying to listen to this side by side comparison of the edit in Wind Chimes: http://snd.sc/twdPuL

Keep in mind that i folded down the stereo piano break (from disc 4), so it will sound slightly different to the true mono from disc 1. I’m just saying this so that the folded down mono doesn’t in anyway distract from the edit, which is the point of this exercise.

If you don’t hear any difference in the quality of the EDIT then you are very fortunate and i envy you. But consider this: don’t ever go into the field of professional audio, please. And don’t scoff at others for having a sharper ear and caring more about things sounding NICE.

P.S. I'm not an audiophile by any stretch of the imagination.

All most persuasive, except for one small point - I've been told that's a boost on the rhythm track on the 8th note at that point (that's how it was explained to me), thus there is no edit to consider the quality of in either sample.

[runnersdialzero]

I read this thread and get feelings similar to the time I repeatedly slammed my penis in a locker door.

[Jonathan Blum]

>Hushed Tom-Baker-at-the-end-of-Logopolis voice<

"...You're UTTERLY MAAAADD!!!!"

>/Tom Baker off<

Heh.  I was thinking "Why hasn't she got any eyebrows?..."

Cheers,
Jon Blum
(Closed-captioned for the Doctor Who impaired:  Romana nitpicking the Mona Lisa)

[Andrew G. Doe]

I read this thread and get feelings similar to the time I repeatedly slammed my penis in a locker door.

Whatever works for you.

[homeontherange]

What did annoy me is that on the stereo mix of "heroes and villains sections" the bicyle rider section comes in a hair to early, making it sound like the Cd skipped.

Yep, I think that's by far the most sloppy work. Which is why I'll make my own big ass H&V mix.

[Paul2010]

I noticed the clicks/hiss/speed things in Cabin Essence as well, and tried to fix them with a little editing and EQ. It did sound quite nice, but I think if someone with a bit more audio EQ/editing experience could do a much better job. Maybe someone with more expererience could try to fix the mono Cabin Essence?
The sound quality is fantastic, the mono mix sounds extremely good. I like it better than the stereo 20/20 mix.

[darling]

OK, here's the true gen on the Amazing Disappearing Barnyard Backing Vocals.

Basically, it was an editorial decision... Seems the review streams were sourced from a pre-final set of masters.

I'm surprised nobody else asked the rather obvious question - what else of significance changed from the streams to the final version?

[Dr. Tim]

I am now really paying attention (on Grado headphones!) to the "audio glitches" and clicks - my conclusion is these all sound like original tape artifacts.  Which may be why, to my ears, they just fly by, there's no fixing them.  Some of them are caused by oversaturation (recording too loud) on the original session tapes.  Monicker might be right that some or all of those could be snipped out, but there comes a point at which too much of that creates its own artifact, as you have to "draw" an approximation of the wave-form where the click had been, or you will hear a skip or a drop-out.   This is the problem archivists have with cleaning up records made originally on metal stampers - take out enough noise, and it becomes dull and airless.

[egon spengler]

Whoops--accidental early post