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There are reports that the BB backing vocals are missing in the sessions track for Barnyard (only animal sounds are heard), although they're referred to in the booklet and Mr. Doe reported hearing stereo backing vocals in the stream he got to hear. Was an incomplete version of the track accidentally included on the CD?

....and if so can a corrected version be distributed to us needy fans somehow?

*prays*

Was a little surprised to hear the clip without the background vocals. Both versions would be nice to have, but the version with stereo backup vocals would be more essential, methinks.

If you mean the ooooohs there are in there.

Edit: Sorry didn't see you mean the sessions track.  Listening to the previews on Aus iTunes store there is defiantly no backing vocals.

Here's the Leila description of the track from the stream:

Disk 2

Track 4-A clean master take of Barnyard! Backing and stereo BVs. Nothing new otherwise though.


And yet, the people who now have the box say the BV are not heard on the track!

Right, CD 2: animal sounds yes, ooohs no.

Are the animal sounds in stereo?

No.

So yer sayin' you/others heard a Barnyard track sans flown in vocals with the group vocals in stereo? But the retail release only contains a version without the group vocals?

:(

We need the BV's. NOW! Or we could make our own. Audition everyone for teh best ooohs, and then we pan then either side an voila!

CD2/track 4 had stereo bvs when I heard it. The HMV clip and the actual box disc doesn't. Time to dust off the deerstalker...

Good point - if the review copies and released copies contain differences, the bootleggers will be on it in a flash.

What else differs?

Or maybe that was the watermarking - any contraband that included those box could be quickly id'ed as such and tracked back by other means?

Hmm very interesting.  Hadn't thought of that myself.

Speaking of mistakes, the amount of technical/engineering blunders all over disc 1 is staggering. I am planning on writing a lengthy review critique on this aspect of the release because, to me, it is totally inexcusable for a major release of this magnitude to have such sloppy work. It's really disheartening. Although i hate to say it, i totally saw it coming given previous releases.

I won't judge until i actually hear it, but reading this kind of thing still scares me a little bit.

Curious to know what you mean.  I grabbed what I understood to be the iTunes rip of the 2CD over the weekend and it was positively full of digital skips and glitches.  I don't know whether what I got was the exact retail fileset or if somehow these errors & glitches were introduced after the fact.

I REALLY hope that's the case.

Nah, don't worry about it.  I don't hear anything of the sort on disc 1 (well, maybe in one spot, but it's minor).  I don't hear any sloppy work.  I'm interested (a little bit) to read what monicker has to say about these 'technical/engineering blunders'.  Different ears hear different things, and different minds percieve different things.  I'm not saying that there is a right or a wrong in this difference of opinion, I'm just saying that you should listen for yourself, and disregard anyone's opinion until you've actually heard the thing.  You may end up agreeing with monicker, or you may not.

P.S.  There are no digital skips or glitches on the disc that I bought.

Just listened to Disc 1, and I think it is great.

Well, that put me at ease.

.

I'm confused. My copy I could hear the background vocals very well.

On disc 2?

Not trying to be confrontational here, but an honest question: would you be saying the same thing if you saw a film, a major release, with boom mics dipping into frame, the shadow of the camera visible in some shots, the camera visible in a scene with a mirror, a crew member's elbow dipping into the corner of the frame?

Or what if inside the packaging of this release there were typos all throughout the text? Or, say, a weird line going through some the photos that's obviously not supposed to be there? (I don't know enough about printing type of errors to offer more hypothetical examples)

There'd be a lot of complaining going on, i reckon.

I'm going to sit with the music for a while before i attempt to write anything. But i also might not even end up doing it because this simultaneously breaks my heart and makes me so upset that i might not have the energy to take on such a task.

It may be because you said this: "it is totally inexcusable for a major release of this magnitude to have such sloppy work. It's really disheartening" without giving a single example of what you're talking about.

Well, there are two....  ;D

 
Again, I don't hear any sloppy work or technical/engineering blunders (except for one minor one, which I won't mention because I don't want to color anyone's opinion before they hear the thing).  It all sounds fantastic to my ears.  Granted, my ears are 55 years old, and worn from 35 years of standing in front of my guitar amp, but I'm not totally deaf yet.  ;)  I came in with no pre-conceived notions about how this was going to sound.  I'd read some opinions, and saw that some folks said that it sounds amazing, and some folks said that they were hearing all sorts of problems.  Because of those huge differences of opinion, I guess I figured that I should be my own judge.  And I am.  And my verdict is that disc 1 sounds absolutely incredible.  Your mileage may vary, and in your case, it does.  No big deal to me.

List just a few. If there are a "staggering number," it should be easy. The thing this thread is about -- the CD 2 version of Barnyard -- doesn't count because you specified disc 1.

And you said "blunders," not "decisions that I disagree with."

I will say the vocals at about 3:32 in the stereo mix of Heroes and Villains do indeed sound weirdly fast for a few seconds.

It's not Barnyard, but close, I want to know if the reverb bit in the place of the tape explosion on IIGS was intentional, I don't mind it if it was, but it sounds too digital and strikes me as being more of a placeholder for the tape explosion than an intended for release part.

Any serious listening should be done with a pair of good quality studio headphones. These are just a few off the top of my head.

Cabinessence: first chorus: at 1:01 the tone of the entire recoding changes, the hiss changes dramatically and it sounds like some weird filter gets turned on. This one is so bad i don't even want to think about it because there's no other way to get Cabinessence is mono, so we are forced to use this version with the audio equivalent of a stain. Oh, before that, going into the chorus from the verse there is a click/pop, i.e. a sloppy edit. Someone didn't check the very tail end of the verse or the very beginning of the chorus to see if it played without a click. 

Look: intro: when the trumpet comes in the hiss increases and comes in sloppily, i.e. a very fast/short fade in wasn't applied. This isn't rocket science, guys.

CIFOTM (this one is appalling in how bad it is): verse: right before the mute trumpet comes in, the hiss increases dramatically. It doesn't fade in, it just pops in, THEN...the extra hiss totally cuts out BEFORE the trumpet phrase even ends. I can't even comprehend what could have caused that sort of anomaly. But did no one hear this during the entire time this was being worked on??

Holidays: all sorts of digital artefacts /clicking/popping going on with the pitch shifted vocals.

H&V: 3:11 the start of the a cappella section (barbershop) there is a nasty digital click/pop. This one we have known since the mp3 of that video contest.

Barnshine fade: that is NOT a proper fade. It sounds more like a high pass filter was applied at the end, as the fade is abrupt and the tone/sound quality of the entire recording changes dramatically. Something weird is going on there, too, with a change in hiss. Overall, throughout the entire 19 tracks, there are sections that have weird bad shifts in the hiss.

Wind Chimes: listen to the transition/edit of the piano break going back into the chorus. That is the work of a professional?

Dada: 1:57-2:00 during the long rest where there is just the decay of the piano, there is a VERY high pitched and very quiet beeping, like one tone, like a sine wave, it then stops when the music kicks back in.

These are just a few. Like i said, if i have the energy to do it, after i have sat with the music long enough, i am going to write up a review and enumerate all of these things. If it was one or two instances, fine, but there are little clicks and pops ALL OVER tracks 1-19 and generally sloppy edits (i.e. not clean). It's crazy that this got by so many people (or at least two) before being sent for mastering. There are a bunch of other things too, but honestly, i'd like to try to enjoy the glorious music and not focus so much on this stuff. It's hard though.

Can you can tell us where the digital files are sourced from? CD, LP, iTunes Download, etc?

For what it's worth, after a very quick listen with mid-priced earphones, I was able to hear most of the things monicker refers to. I had already noticed some myself, such as the high-pitched noise in Dada and the noise issues in Cabinessence and CIFOTM. I don't know the reasons behind these various noises, there might be a perfectly good explanation (damaged tapes, etc.). What CAN'T be explained, though, is the outrageous speed mistake in the stereo mix of H&V, which is very easily noticeable even without headphones.

And I was able to hear all this from my CD (i.e. not an LP or an iTunes download).

Amen! I'm an amateur producer and even I could put together the verse and the chorus of "Cabinessence" without a click popping up. Some simple fade ins/fade outs could've fixed the issue.

(http://i531.photobucket.com/albums/dd353/thCOD/cabinspectral.png)

That's a picture of the hiss in the first chorus, and it happens in the second chorus as well, but drops out at a different point.

Not to mention the freakin' phantom vocals during the second chorus! Every time it starts all I can hear is "Have you SSS..."

:angry

I'm very happy to see this album finally being released, and I'm trying my best to just enjoy it, but like you said, this stuff is hard to ignore.

Also, having that harpsichord in the "Bicycle Rider" chorus end while the bridge is starting up is just terrible sounding. Luckily we can "roll our own", lol.

I've got to agree with Monicker that it's surprising that there are so many (irritatingly small) instances of hiss and dodgy edits on these first 19 tracks/2 CDs.

This is not to denigrate the overall ambition or quality of the product, or the heroic efforts of Mark and Alan. It's just frustrating to be so close to, say, a definitive mono Cabin Essence... and discover deeply distracting hiss that's clearly the result of someone missing something along the line. Until there's an answer from Mark or Alan on the points Monicker raises, or on whether the wrong version of Barnyard was put on disc 2 by mistake (this is the only apparent flub that actually upsets me a little), we won't know if some of these issues were unavoidable, or at what point in the process they occurred.

I don't think these criticisms should be seen as of the bulk of the actual work done by Mark and Alan, which is extraordinary, but of a certain lack of quality control in the final stages, and the distracting mixing/mastering errors which are apparent to even my untrained ears. In fact, these are even more irritating because the base work done is so f***ing great, and it's especially frustrating if - had they been detected - some of the errors could have been as easily fixed as it appears they might have been.

Well, remember, Mark's going to do another iconfetch interview for the sole purpose of answering listener questions after they've had time to soak in TSS, so....why not? He might be able to explain why that all happened.

Hey 37!ws, I did think of that as an opportunity. How are iconfetch soliciting the questions? I'm sure there are far better people than me, in terms of technical understanding, to pose 'em.

Just e-mail host @ iconfetch . com -- I did that and got a response from Tony...

That's just it. They're great mixers/producers. I give them all the credit in the world, there. But maybe they should've had a composer that was familiar with music editing software around to help. Then, that person could've been like: "Woah... fading a pitch-shifted 'Whispering Winds' into 'Wind Chimes'? Yeah, maybe that sounds nice theoretically, but I'm going to strongly suggest we don't do that. This is a major archival release, not a Youtube video."

I think a digital release with some upgrades could be a solution to fix these small errors. And they could include Barnyard with the backing vocals!

You guys, there are so many of these issues, i just want to cry. I just heard the album portion again and it's really difficult to ignore this stuff. I really, really wish i could because these are my favorite recordings in the annals of pop music. With such an important, monumental release, and how much care and attention were put into the packaging, you'd think that the most BASIC engineering/editing mistakes would be easily avoided. Anyone putting together any record, whether it's the most famous unreleased album of all time, or something with a lower profile, should have dog ears and O.C.D. That is very far from the case here. It pains me. I've always wanted to like Mark Linett because he is essentially the guy in charge of reissuing the music of my favorite band, but i have always found issues with his work. These things on The Smile Sessions are amateur hour, seriously, i don't say that to be mean spirited or for attention or anything of the sort, it's truly what i think from a critical and objective standpoint, and i just can't believe this passes as professional work. A professional should not be overlooking these sort of things. And what's most baffling is that there were TWO people, four ears, working on this, and STILL all these things got by them. I am sorry but i just don't think there is an excuse. Not when you're employed by Capitol records and you are working on arguably the most important audio documents of popular music in the 20th century. Imagine (insert big name film director here) comes out with a new film and film school type of slip-ups are to be found all over the film.

I am going to listen again and try to accept all these blunders. I guess eventually i'll get used to them.

i was dreaming about that. That would be wonderful but i doubt that is realistic at all. I would happily buy my plane ticket to California, pay for lodging, and not accept a penny to sit through all 5 CDs with headphones and no distractions and note every single little thing wrong, if they were looking for another pair of ears to make corrections to this. :)

Damaged tapes can't explain any of the things i mentioned. What damaged tapes CAN explain, however, is something i didn't even mention previously: In the beginning of Holidays: on the fourth beat of the third bar there is a little tiny drop out, due to, i believe, tape damage. No one can be blamed for that though, that is totally acceptable.

EDIT: Actually, there is more minor tape damage throughout the beginning of Holidays, not just that one spot.

What about the hiss??? I'm sure there wasn't a "Hiss" button that Mark & company pressed.

Did you remember to toggle the hiss button off? Whoops! Why do we have that damn thing anyway?! :lol

I can't think of any explanation for it. I've briefly considered that a watermarked copy was accidentally included, but that seems like a stretch.

Edit: I went back and listened to the Mojo single and it has the same issue.

FWIW I learn a lot of cool audio stuff from the likes of Monicker and others...

Nope.

On CD2/track 4, from 0.23 onwards, in stereo ? Not on Spotify.

I mean proper bvs, not the animal noises.

I'll certainly admit others are more knowledgable than myself with audio programs, but I'm a bit skeptical here.  These "mistakes" are only on the box set and not the vinyl or downloadable tracks that came out in the past months?

I get the impression that this compiled sequence is a bit like the extended version of the Wicker Man, where they used footage from the short version where possible so it would look clean, and used the inferior footage that only existed in the long version where necessary.  But I don't have my box to listen to yet, so I can only guess.  I just find it odd that people are so disappointed with this new edit when no one seemed to like it a few weeks ago, anyway--before they'd heard it.

I also take it there are no issues with anything other than tracks 1-19?  It can't really be worth crying over if that's the case.  It's just music.

Keep in mind that you're on a forum with Beach Boys fans and everyone knows that you could serve many of them sh*t on a silver platter and they still wouldn't be satisfied.

Who would be satisfied with sh*t on a silver platter to begin with?? :lol

Let's poll all the Keepin' the Summer Alive fans and find out. :)

Bought KTSA and definitely know it is sh*t :lol

Good man. Have a piece of lettuce. :)

Yeah, it is worse than sh*t. It's like whale sh*t. You don't get much lower besides the devil's deuces.

Actually, I don't consider myself a Beach Boy fan - I mean, I am, but I don't take a great sense of identity from enjoying the BB's work. I'd say I was equally (or more) a fan of Dylan, the Pixies, early-mid Radiohead, the Beatles, Syd Barrett, Muddy Waters, The Band, The Stooges, "Soft Bulletin" Lips etc... I love music, basically, and especially good pop music.

SMiLE does have a special significance for me - partly due to its genuine musical quality, part its tragic-to-triumphant story, part the interactivity it's offered me since I discovered the first mp3s in 98-99, plus all the other factors. But frankly I don't think I'm informed enough, experienced enough or basically just charged up enough in these boards or BB-fandom to complain for the sake of complaining, if that's what's being implied.

And I don't think monicker or the others pointing out technical flubs on the first CD are either, in this case. It's not so much a matter of questioning editorial choices like fly-ins or crossfades, for which there are both credible criticisms and defenses of - that's a conversation, in the way that identifying a dozen clear and easily correctable technical mistakes isn't. That just looks like sloppiness, and though I'm thrilled with all the other material on the box, and am going to get onto "rolling my own" sharpish, I don't think it's at all unreasonable or precious to express concern and disappointment that I'm now going to have use an older, folded down version of Cabin Essence when there seems to be absolutely no reason that with a tiny bit more care and concentration, a definitive mono version made by real masters of their craft (like AB and ML) could be playing on my Itunes right now.

If I buy a DVD of a great film like, say, "Rules of the Game", and the sound goes out of sync for a few seconds, I'm not going to hate the movie or burn it in disgust as a result. Most of the film will still be fine, and enjoyable, and thought-provoking, and compelling. Neither am I going to expect Criterion to print a whole new edition for the sake of those few seconds. But I will be taken out of the experience and need to get back into it; and I will still be utterly within reason - Renoir fan, BBs fan or no - to express my disappointment that someone didn't notice that the sync went out and did something about it while there was still time to do so.

I mean, the box set is, for me, still a clear 9.75 out of 10. But the things that annoy me, at least, aren't things like the song structures or fly-ins - someone was going to complain about any editorial decisions made by Boyd or Linnet; they couldn't win on those - but silly little things that if they could have been fixed, should have been. Hopefully the upcoming iconfetch interview gives us a chance to pose those questions and Mark and Alan a chance to answer them.

They could be absolutely right.  I just find it odd that the same concerns weren't raised with certain things before, like "Cabinessence."  Obviously this stuff was heard before it was released.

Heard by us or by those working on/releasing it? "Cabin Essence" was released as a vinyl single - I heard it through a needledrop on youtube - so perhaps the assumption was that wasn't exactly what we'd be getting as a final product? I certainly wouldn't have been listening as closely or in the same way as to a final CD version. The errors on most of the other tracks mentioned hadn't been available before the weekend, and if they had only as low-quality samples. And, in fact, the version of "Barnyard" heard on the stream seems to have included the stereo bvs, so who's to say what other things changed or went awry on their way to pressing the discs?

This is a very valuable distinction to draw, and I'm not sure that everybody is making it.

There have been a couple of obvious, clear errors spotted. That is, the missing Barnyard vox and the H&V stereo speed. I will, in a charitable mood, add the Cabinessence pop/hiss issue. These are important to point out, and this is what a message board is for! These should have been addressed before such an expensive and expansive archival release went out. Other choices are aesthetic, and we should argue them as such, not as evidence of "incompetence" or bad faith.

And I'm sorry -- I have to call Monicker out on his post. I'm currently debating whether he actually believes and hears all these things, or if he's just putting us all on. And what's with the Mark L. hate?

I hear virtually nothing of what Moniker is talking about.

Nothing.

Nada.

Ziltch.

Went back, turned up the tracks. Surely there's something here, I told myself. Why would someone write so much about this? Surely there are glaring flaws waiting to be found! Still didn't hear 'em.

Heard a light pop -- or at least what seemed to be a light pop -- when I turned Cabinessence up to full blast. It was, indeed, at 1:01. But did the song sound different before and after? Not that I could tell. Interesting, too, that all of the "incompetence" on display has to do with things like the volume of tape hiss and very subtle, very very quiet digital tones that could easily be confused with everyday tinnitus!

So anyway, I'm just chalking this all up to an elaborate practical joke. Good work! You nearly had me.

I do! All of it, in fact, and I heard almost all of it before he said anything.

I just can't see how the guy who put together the stereo Pet Sounds, a religious experience of sorts due to sheer sonic awesomeness, managed to make these flubs. God love 'im for all his hard work here and elsewhere, I have a world of respect for him, but errors and sonic oddities is errors and sonic oddities no matter how you slice it.

Also, the "Cabinessence" error appears during both chorii in the song, not just the once.

How loud are you listening and under what cicumstances? I'm genuinely curious, because I have noises in my head that are louder than some of the things people are talking about.

For whatever it's worth, I hear maybe half of them, although I haven't yet had a chance to listen on high quality headphones.  Yes, the ones I heard were a bit annoying, but certainly not enough to take me "out of the moment" as it were. 

A pair of speakers and with my ears?

T'be fair, the "sine wave" thing in "Da Da" is present on the '93 box set mix and even then is a pretty minor complaint. A few of these are minor complaints, really (imo), but a few of them are legit not good edits (imo).

Wirestone, I don't appreciate what you have just written and i do not take this sort of thing lightly. It is preposterous of you to suggest that i am making this stuff up or trying to pull a practical joke, etc. simply because YOU can't hear it. The only thing that that tells me is that your ears are not reliable and your hearing is not too sharp. That is not intended as a jab at you, simply put: if you don't hear this stuff (which is very obvious to me and just pops out--believe me, i would love to not be able to hear this stuff because it ruins a lot of the music) then your critical ear is not up to par. Sorry if that comes across as arrogant.

If you think i'm full of sh*t, how full of sh*t could i be if i'm trying to think of a feasible way to petition Capitol records to issue corrected versions of these as lossless downloads to those who purchased the box set? Like i said, i don't take this lightly and i take considerable issue with you suggesting that i am being insincere or that this is all some sort of ruse.

The "Mark L. hate," as you put it, is not so oversimplified as you suggest. I am simply highly critical of his work because of what he's demonstrated. I have no personal agenda against him. In fact, and i should have pointed this out earlier: who knows if this is the result of Linett or Boyd or the third co-producer, whose name is escaping me at the moment. But, seeing as how Linett, by title, is the engineer, and the others are not, i would think the chief responsibility in this work falls on him. Also, Alan Boyd mentioned in his Icon Fetch that he personally put the Vegetables track together (on Final Cut Pro! Have you ever edited audio on FCP? It's not a good platform for audio editing!) and that one is flawless. However, as i said before, regardless of who actually did the hands on work, there were surely more ears, at some point or another, to evaluate the work and make sure that everything was okay, and yet no one caught this stuff.

Anyway, i haven't even scratched the surface on listing all the issues. I am really surprised that more people aren't hearing this stuff and bothered by it. Like i said, i would love to not be able to hear them.

Also, i think it's been made abundantly clear that these are not aesthetic issues that are being called out, but technical errors.

P.S. I do not have tinnitus.

I call 'em like I hear 'em. You are overreacting to something that is, at its most glaring, barely audible.

As I said, I do believe that obvious errors should be fixed. But the strength of your opinions alone does not transform aesthetic concerns into technical ones. Sorry.

You know, I kinda wish I never created this thread. I really was just wondering what happened with the Barnyard vocs, that's all.

Oh, it would have come out in the wash anyway. The board is like that.

And my flippant responses aside, I am interested in hearing the incredibly different experiences people are having while they experience this album. It's fascinating -- and this thread really does make me wonder. Digital technology clearly made the final album sequence possible, but it seems to have contributed its share of glitches.

Hey Wirestone and mammy blue -

Sorry if I've contributed to a hijack of the thread/dampening peoples' thrill over this amazing event. Since the Barnyard confusion might well be the result of a technical c*ck-up, (most of) the other concerns moniker listed struck me at least as relevant to a larger discussion of objective technical - as opposed to subjective editorial - mistakes that made it onto the discs.

I'd say I heard about half of what monicker identifies before his list appeared; and I noticed them without even listening too closely. Also, I'm willing to defend his tone and statements for the most part (I'm not sure the WC transition, for instance, is a technical error; it strikes me more as an editorial decision, which can be questioned, sure, but not categorically identified as a "mistake").

What monicker has written doesn't strike me as an all out attack on Mark, or anybody, on the basis of personality, personal enmity or even differing aesthetics - just disappointment and confusion over why such niggling mistakes got through the filter and onto the finished product. As Wirestone points out, different peoples' reactions to the glitches - or if they can even hear them at all - is fascinating, but I don't think it's fair to state outright that monicker, or anyone else, is "overracting", even if we want to take issue about whether the factors causing the reaction are "barely audible". The one thing that really is subjective in all this is the big question - "Do those small things matter considering the overall triumph, in an artistic and historical sense, of this incredible release?"

All of us, even given we can hear the things identified in this thread, will have a different answer, and rationally not one is more true or correct than any other. Personally, to me - yeah it matters on a song-by-song basis. Glitches like these, on a major release 45 years in the making, should have been picked up and fixed. Am I going to return my box? Of course not. I am not going to enjoy the other four discs? Of course I am. But I can still regret the instances of sloppy editing - if that is indeed what they are.

Just as others can not be bothered by them if they wish. This is a discussion forum, and everyone seems to be being civil - what better place to share our small criticisms, as well as major praise?

I don't doubt those things you mention are there - but I'm happy to say I didn't notice ANY of that listening over speakers, and don't plan to try and find them. The only thing I noted is the hiss on CE, which I only discovered listening over headphones weeks ago, and to me the hiss indicates the chorusses weren't mixed by Mark in 2011 but are 1966 Brian test mixes.

Lucky me, I can enjoy the music without minding or even noting any technical problems.

I've not listened on head phones but over speakers, and at normal volume - like 99.95% of people here, and in the real world - and repeatedly... and I don't hear any problems. Even now I 'know' what to listen for, it's insignificant. How long do these problems add up to ? 10 seconds, 20, 30... a minute ?  Out of a 5CD set ?

I say, you're over-reacting. You're listening to the signal path, and not the music. More to the point, you're pulling a Cohen and messing with other's enjoyment of something very special. Did you complain about the (competitively) horrible quality of the boots ? Lots of hiss there.

This.


Also this.

Nop.

Some folk have been listening to this longer than the vast majority of the posters here, and no-one has raised concerns, until now.

Not saying you're wrong, but was there the need to explain in such depth on the forum ? I'm sure Mark & Alan are thrilled to read how you're ignoring the vast bulk of the set and zeroing in on the perceived technical errors. I think it's symptomatic of the mindset of certain people on this board that they can focus on tiny, tiny 'errors' like that, but the fact that there's a whole set of vocals missing from one track doesn't concern them. "No technical errors there, fine by me". Back in 2001, I noticed there was a poor edit in the stereo "H&V" on Hawthorne CA, but did I flail away and rend garments ? Nope - just shrugged and moved on. I'm guessing you're shocked at the very obvious edit in "Strawberry Fields Forever" as well.

I think AGD and Wirestone make a very good point, which is by concentrating on comparatively minor negatives, we ignore the vast bulk of great work contained within. Guys like Alan and Mark - not to mention the man himself BW - who have spent decades working on this material deserve far more praise than condemnation. Of that, there's no doubt. For contributing to any such misrepresentation, I apologize.

On the other hand, having only heard the two discs - I'm in NZ, which doesn't even have a release date for the box, so happily it's on the way from the States - and posting in a thread which has the word "Mistake" in the title, is it really inappropriate to celebrate the whole while still being disappointed in a few specifics? I'm sure Alan and Mark are confident enough in their work to cope with- and view in the way they are intended - a few valid comments on the few technical matters that could have been improved?

As soon as the full box arrives, I intend to contribute fully, and I've no doubt ecstatically, to the communal joy over this project's fruition. Even now, I'll say Fire and Dada - with those fly ins - ROCK MY WORLD. The latter, particularly, has never sounded fuller or better to these ears. Vega-tables, echoing the statements of almost everyone here, is now the definitive edit of that tune. Loving the heightened percussion in Wind Chimes... and so much more. Since the subject of this thread was about something we would have liked to have been more scrupulously checked, it seemed totally appropriate to discuss these issueshere. In other threads I have no doubt my, and others', full and sincere joy and gratitude to all those involved will be extensively shared.

Don't think we're not appreciative of the whole; we just might wish there was an extra round of checks before things like fluctuating hiss, bad cuts and (possibly) the wrong take made it into plastic. Is expressing that really ungrateful or rude? I've paid for my box set. I'm a member on a Beach Boys forum for which the main topic for months has been this release. I am sure when the full box arrives I will love it. If I don't, I guess can head over to a Bob Dylan or movie forum to discuss it, but I can't imagine that would be a more appropriate venue to do so.

Sorry, accidental repost.

Oh, one more thing - AGD, what's the track missing the vocals? Are you referring to Barnyard? If so, I've probably mentioned that track more than anything else in my posts. If not, I'm sure I'll feel really silly I didn't notice!  :o

Wasn't pointing my finger at you.  ;D

Good to know!  :) Even better to know there isn't another track missing vocals! Then this thread could really get interesting!  ;D

Regarding the fluctuation in hiss:

What do you expect with an edit-record being put together forty-odd years after it was recorded? A consistent hiss level? The options for Mark would have been a. use NR or b. leave it like it is. People would have complained either way. IMO, a slightly fluctuating hiss level is way less annoying than NR.



I don't mean to :deadhorse, or anything

It's odd bits of hiss straight up popping out (i.e. not gradually) with seemingly no rhyme or reason on "Cabinessence" and "Child" that are really strange. That's all. There were no hiss dropouts on any other mix of "Cabinessence", why is it here?

Maybe it's a new edit prepared from different elements to the period version ?

The level of hiss before the dropout is the same as the period version, but after that it is a much cleaner mix, which is why I've wondered if this is a watermark. My only problem is with the transition. There's a loud pop and the hiss instantly drops about 10dB, as you can see here:

(http://i531.photobucket.com/albums/dd353/thCOD/cabinessence.png)

It's very jarring, on headphones or speakers.

Anyway, I guess I'll shut up and start working on my stereo fold down mix.

8o

'K, just listened to the 2CD disc... and yes, I can hear some of those things that have so utterly dismayed folk...

If I crank the volume up to 11... and because I know what I'm listening for. Is my life blighted, my enjoyment forever soured ?

Nah, 'cause next time, I'll be listening at a sensible level and won't notice it.

If you want to hear about a real problem, the recent Mercury reissue of Incantations had a catastrophic mastering glitch on "Part 3" that was the aural equivalent of stubbing your toe on the bedpost in the dark and about as enjoyable... and that got pressed and made it to the shops. This stuff... small beer.

I seriously can't hear any of this, not that I've TRIED too but I've listened to the album on headphones a bunch now and not noticed any drop outs or whatever.

i already know i won't be able to hear these things

Well, you've come to the wrong place  ;D

Out in the barnyard the smiley beats a dead horse... oooooooooooh....

But I don't enjoy listening to music through headphones.  I listen to music through my big, old Marantz speakers.  And I'm not deaf.  I listened closely and I could barely notice some (but not even close to all...I gave up) of the things that you pointed out as flaws.  And that was with the volume at a higher level than I ever listen to music.  I'm not going to tell you how you should listen to music.  You do your thing, but don't try to tell me how to enjoy listening to music.  I'm sorry that you can not enjoy this disc because of all the hiss, snap, crackle, and pop.  Seriously.  I think it's sublime.  This incredible music has never sounded better...to me.  And that's all that matters...to me.

Oh, and for those that are now worried about this release because of the perceived flaws pointed out by some folks here, I say again...listen for yourselves.  I mean listen to the music.  It really is beautiful.  As you can see by some of the responses here, there are people who either don't notice any flaws, or think them to be so minor that they don't care.  Enjoy.....or not.  

No one's messing with my enjoyment of anything.  :-\ I'm listening to the music and enjoying it, listening to people nitpick over something you love and that moves you is like asking strangers to critique your girlfriend.

It just disturbs me that a thread that's supposedly about one mistake in a minute-long song fragment has carried on for four pages.

I don't have the set yet.

I've the needledrop of the Mojo single and I couldn't hear anything.
I don't really care that there aren't backing vocals on the instrumental version of Barnyard.
and I've been playing in loud rock bands for a few years and my hearing sucks so I probably won't hear any of the errors.

I haven't got the box yet but isn't the mixed version with lead, bvs and animal sounds on CD1?  If so, this isn't a big deal.

I posted this on another thread but the online sample of "I'm in Great Shape" sounds really bad when the vocal kicks in.  Is this the case on the CD or just a result of a bad mp3 conversion?

It doesn't sound amazing as all they had was the radio demo of that and Barnyard to get the vocals from. Not much else they could do sadly.

Gotcha.  Thought Barnyard sounded better than my boots so I guess I expected better for "Shape".  Thanks for the info!  Looking fwd to getting my box.

Makes the whole "roll your own" thing a bit harder, plus holy f*** - the "Barnyard" vocals in stereo? Yes plz.

Please take a breath and get over it sir. ;D

Those who are pointing out legit errors on this set should not be criticized. Come on, folks - of course we appreciate the f*** out of this release, but that doesn't mean its exempt from criticisms.

Has it occurred to anyone that these 'errors' might not be in all copies and that some might be defective? This is a serious question not sarcasm; I got the 2CD set today and so far all I've listened to is SU67, on repeat...like it was Be My Baby and I was mid70s Brian Wilson.


:lol

Discuss on.  Critique.  This is just too much fun.  Nothing from me to negatively criticize this release.  I think they did a great job in their choice and sequencing for disc 1.  Jaw dropping stuff.  I had heard much of this in various forms but never so well mixed and lovingly assembled.  And I found some surprises.   It is all that I had hoped for.

And a remembrance of Greg .    And a nod to Susan.   (and AGD ;) )   Sorry if I'm rambling in the wrong thread............


This whole package is such a feast and celebration!

I was hoping this was the case but I heard them loud and clear on the stream.

I think I'm over it. I found a different mix of "Cabin Essence" released about 40 years ago and it sounds much better.

This is a Beach Boys board. Nothing is safe here  >:D

I have never made my own Smile mix before but the time has come to do so. I'm going to take every single edit between the modular sections and redo them. Linett evidently doesn't check his edits but i realized this is a blessing in disguise, because in redoing them (in order to eliminate all those stupid, careless clicks) i'll make them hard edits! Welcome back hard edits, i've missed you dearly. Then i will use Look from the sessions, which doesn't have the weird hiss glitch during the trumpet. I will reconstruct CIFOTM from the sessions, where the same type of glitch, also during the trumpet part, isn't nearly as noticeable. I'll take Cabinessence from 20/20, which is absurd, but whatever (does anyone have any other suggestion/solution for Cabinessence?) I'll replace the ending bass notes of Wonderful with the ones from the sessions to get rid of the reverb that was used there. For Barnshine, i will just fade it out before it goes haywire. I'll take the barbershop section of H&V from the Smiley version. Not all, but most of these problems, i think, can be solved. It's just a shame that the presentation of tracks 1-19 are what is being presented to the public for the first time ever, and, no, NOT BECAUSE OF EDITORIAL DECISIONS AND THE SEQUENCE. But who cares about public presentation. I'm excited and happy again.

There's always one.

As I said, I haven't got the box yet and don't know all and what's there.  Is it on the vinyl (didn't Mark say side 4 has music not on the CDs).  Anyway, I'm confused RE:Barnyard.  Do we have the vocal track but just in Mono? Animal sounds in stereo?   The music track.  I do know you can mix stereo and mono easily.

About the hiss changes in Cabin Essence, I believe they're deliberate.  The goal seems to have been to apply NR to the quiet sections, only where needed.  Rather than have the filter cut the hiss at an already low dynamic level where the transition will be blatant, they're doing it a little further back while the signal is still loud and the ear is less likely to pick it up.  It may seem like an arbitrary point but I think the goal was to disguise the edit as much as possible, and props to Alan & Mark for not running NR over the entire thing.  As far as the pops, that's unfortunate, but they're not hard to remove in any decent sound editor.

I've got some pretty top gear and I can't hear them  - or at least not so it bothers me.

I feel that this (type of thing) is one of the reasons we haven't had Smile for 44 years.

Everything we have of "Barnyard" is in mono. The mix with the stereo backing vocals was heard on streams of the album for press etc. but is nowhere to be found on the box set and is not on the vinyl, either.


The hiss occurs in "Cabinessence" near the end of the chorus without any real rhyme or reason. It just comes out of nowhere, it's not specific to the verses or anything like that.

You're also a being a bit of a jerk (and in this area I have considerable expertise), but I suspect that's because hardly anyone else can hear these problems you outlined without damaging their ears and equipment. I suspect Mark has read this, laughed, mopped up the coffee he spilt, muttered something like "what a prick" and got on with mixing the stereo version of Smiley Smile he's currently working on (OK, that last bit might just be a fib...).  ;D

I have to say, I've listened to Cabin Essence, Dada and Look and the artefacts that Monicker describes are definitely there.

If you don't hear them, then good for you, but its a bit unfair to come down on Monicker who is obviously peeved at issues that, considering the price of the box and the importance of the project, we shouldn't have to be worrying about.

I'm not going to let these things interfere with my listening pleasure as they are relatively minor and I'm prepared to overlook them, but it is a shame that these obvious errors slipped through, and just because some people don't hear them doesn't mean they're not there.

Agree, and not saying they're not there, but I am saying that they are utterly insignificant, and that if you listen at normal volume, inaudible. This is what monicker said about these almost inaudible problems:

"You guys, there are so many of these issues, i just want to cry. I just heard the album portion again and it's really difficult to ignore this stuff."

Seriously ? You wanted to cry ?  :o

I want to cry when I see edits like this going into the first chorus of CE:

(http://i531.photobucket.com/albums/dd353/thCOD/cabinwtf.png)

Look at that. It's horrible! That pop is almost as loud as the music! :lol

Things like this don't ruin it for me, but it's upsetting to see easily avoidable errors peppered throughout such an important release. It sounds unprofessional.

Even if you ignore all the random hiss and digital glitches, what about the speed issue on the H&V stereo mix, or the out of place vocals in the second chorus of CE, or the vocals missing on the Barnyard session? These are BIG mistakes. How could they have been overlooked? Do you think Mark is giggling about those?

I wish you'd stop acting like such a childish bully and deal with it. If you had just ignored this thread we probably wouldn't even be talking about it anymore. We're all happy about this release, but it's a dick move to gang up on anyone who has issues with maybe 1% of it.

And the Thanks For The Smile Sessions thread hasn't even made two pages yet. Go figure. Amazingly, this board is actually threatening to be more uptight about errors and mastering deficiencies than the Hoffman Smile thread.

You're mad

Assuming this is aimed at me (and if it's not, please return to your previously scheduled activities)...

1 - playing "CE" at normal volume over speakers and I honestly don't hear that 'pop' in the first chorus... and remember, I'm listening for it !  I know, I know, I would say that anyway, right ? Wrong. I don't do that.

2 - "BY" vocals (which I was first to notice, btw): getting close to an authoritative answer on that. Film at eleven. Out-of-place- vocals on 2nd "CE" chorus ? Again, can't hear 'em. Yes, there's something a tad off about this stereo mix of "H&V", just as there was on Hawthorne CA ten years ago. Know something ? I got over it.  They're "BIG mistakes" to people who listen to the disc, but not the music, who start with the mindset of looking for this kind of thing (as monicker stated indirectly: I suspect he's no big ML fan): to 99.95% of the people who'll buy this (and I include myself in that, and my ears are pretty good for small detail, such as realising that the single mix of "Never Learn Not To Love" was very minutely different from the album version, and this from crappy vinyl on a very lo-fi setup), they're totally inaudible.

3 - my issue is not with the errors, but with the attitude of the poster: we've got five discs packed full of astonishing music and he chooses to focus on maybe 60 seconds of what he perceives as imperfections bad enough to make him cry. How anyone can be such a delicate flower and still survive in the modern world defeats me. I also wept over this release, but it was with sheer, undiluted joy. Has he said word one about how triumphant the rest of the set is ? Nope, just carps about nearly inaudible flaws.

4 - If you think I'm bullying anyone here then you've not seen the me v Cohen threads (in passing, is this guy related to PC ? They seem to share a certain negative outlook), except that wasn't bullying either, that was pointing out that someone was talking accelerated bollocks on a daily basis. Bullying is "you're ugly, you smell, your mom's a slut and you've got a very small dick". This place isn't grade school - if you're going to make a contentious post, prepare for incoming and robust debate.

And now... I'm going to take my Smile button for a walk.  ;D

>Hushed Tom-Baker-at-the-end-of-Logopolis voice<

"...You're UTTERLY MAAAADD!!!!"

>/Tom Baker off<

I heard the hiss in Cabinessence and Look/CITFOTM but chalked it down to poor stem quality. also other oddities

but really, that's a LOT of hiss. it makes you wonder if they even tried to minimize it.

OK, let's recall the entire first run, trash them and then run the whole damn thing through No-Noise before it's pressed up again.

And then someone will bitch about that, of course.

There are folk here who, if handed the Golden Key to the Pearly Gates by God personally, would say "have you got a lighter one, this is awfully heavy".

 :thud

:thud

Then again in a slightly perverse way that is one of the things that is so great about this forum.  That people care so much.  Sure we all get our fill of whining sometimes but the fact that people go over this stuff with a fine toothed comb I think is pretty cool too.

Well, no, I think it IS specific to the verses.  The hiss isn't something being ADDED, it's something being taken away for the verses.  The hiss slams in precisely at the beginning of the chorus and cuts out somewhere near the end.  Now why they couldn't blend smoothly between different noise reduction stages I don't know, you'd think they'd have the gear.  When I opened up the files in Audition last night I just thought I recognized what was going on, since I think I've probably been in the same situation.  You don't want to kick on noise reduction for a quiet section where the transition can be clearly heard so you "hide" it where the signal level is still high.

(http://i.imgur.com/WCy8C.jpg)

And to be clear this is not the very first thing I did when I got home with my box set last night.  I listened to the vinyl first, and LOVED IT.  :)  

I can't believe I'm contributing to this crap...

So...monicker says "Any serious listening should be done with a pair of good quality studio headphones." Fine. I have my $179 pair of Bose cans on right now...which cost 9 times more than what I normally pay for the Sony studio monitors I like. (And the only reason I have the Bose pair is that I won 'em in a contest by luck.)

First thing mentioned: "Cabinessence," claiming that at 1:01 "the tone of the entire recording changes dramatically and it sounds like some weird filter gets turned on." Interesting...anything I hear is very blink-and-you-miss-it static that, if you really do pay attention to it, is VERY quiet and makes you second-guess the connection on the headphones or that there might be electronic interference of some kind. Had I not been specifically looking for it, I would have missed it. Could be a problem with the source tape. As for the tone changing dramatically...well, during this part I actually moved the playback marker to different parts of the song, and found no such change.

"Look" intro -- hiss comes in during the muted trumpet part. By gum, it does. And it also does that on some of the older boots as well. Conclusion: this was probably the "final" take, declared the master, by Brian himself. So the mistake was made 45 years ago by a mentally unstable guy on drugs whose hearing is only at about 52%.

"Holidays" -- "all sorts of digital artefacts [sic] /clicking/popping"...if by all sorts you mean "twice and only in the right can," I agree. Again, most people listening would attribute it to equipment static or interference with headphones or something unless they backtrack and listen to that half a second repeatedly, over and over. Has nothing to do with the vocals.

"Barnshine fade" -- still trying to figure out WTF is "improper" about it, nor do I hear any of the shifts.

"CIFOTM" -- if you think THAT'S "appalling," then I'm glad you're not a Beatles fan; if you were, you would be screaming bloody murder about the harmonica solo in "Little Child." Yes, I hear the hiss, it's noticeable, I agree. But it's a HELL of a lot better than the versions used on the boots, when the hiss starts coming in a little earlier in the same place, is much louder, and doesn't go away after the trumpet. Kudos to whoever fixed it for the commercial release.

"Heroes And Villains" -- a "nasty digital click/pop" -- I had to listen about five times before I could hear it. And you know what? It's also on the Smiley Smile version! In the EXACT. SAME. SPOT. Only it's a bit less pronounced and sounds more like a bass drum or something, probably because it's about twenty generations removed, what with all the tape reductions Brian did, and that my source (the 1990 twofer) was NoNoised to death, a decision Linett himself later admitted he wished he hadn't done. (Which means that if it WEREN'T NoNoised, it'd be even more noticeable.)

"Wind Chimes" -- okay, what am I listening for? Sure as hell beats the desktop "boots" that attempt to reconstruct BWPS with the Beach Boys' version. Don't notice anything odd.

"Love To Say Da Da" -- 1:57 to 2:00 -- the "very high pitched and very quiet beeping": 1) first of all, you're admitting that it's very quiet when you're listening to studio quality headphones. Who the HELL is going to notice that if it's already very quiet and not using studio-quality headphones? 2) You know what? It's there the WHOLE track; it's only that noticeable because you pointed out a silent portion. The only reason you can't hear it later is that the music masks it. 3) That same high pitched beep (in the key of D-flat, btw) is also present in "Love To Say Da Da" on the Good Vibrations set. And the bootlegs. Conclusion: it's there on the original analog tape, not maskable without noise reduction. And you know how people feel about noise reduction.

Oh, missed that in all the ruckus - so my $18 Sony MDR V150 cans, or my Logitech X-140 laptop speakers mean I've not been listening to anything seriously for some nine years, then ? I'm sooooooooooooooooooo grateful to you for pointing this out, 'cause it means that all the time I've been kidding myself I've been enjoying what I'm hearing - I've been fooling myself ! I've been listening frivolously and worse, missing all those errors and mistakes that should be making me cry with sheer frustration. Sir, I am forever in your debt for opening my eyes, and ears.

Actually, what I though was "what an arrogant berk*". I listen with what I can afford, and I listen to the music, not the equipment. Thankfully, I'm not an audiophile, I'm a music lover.

[* tiny etymology lesson: 'berk' comes from Cockney rhyming slang, and is a contraction of "Berkshire hunt": only discovered that a year or so ago, and it amused me no end  ;D]

i really dissaprove of the heavy handed comments/replies and vise versa re the 'sound glitches' on this site

sorry but i have to say this but AGD in particular is coming across as 'well i cant hear them so your extreme, petty, coming across as a bit of a jerk, hypothesizing on Mark thinkn 'what a prick' etc etc'' i mean come on its a bit pathetic, grow up everyone (i also mean both sides here too).
it leaves whoever that is aimed at nowhere to go except to defend themselves, which then seems to get your back up, which then gets their backs up... a cycle of oppression surely?

i think we should just accept that sadly there are glitchs that are audible to a few people 'i include myself here' which, lets be logical, if you can hear a glitch, it follows logically that it will reduce the listening experience to an extent, but how much that extent is defo subjective, as shown with the posts on here. Some engineers i know FREAK at hearing 10 Mhz bleed throughs in music for eg, it's what their paid to remove/reduce as part of their job so yeah i can see why itd be annoying to them tbh, sure it's an extreme view but i can see where their coming from viewing that profession

sure it's a great boxset AGD filled with fantastic music, i don't think anyone is disputing that, however, you read as somewhat totalitarian in dismissing/ridiculing issues of sound impairment that some feel COULD have been addressed/lessened before it's release - is that such a problem for all concerned?

taking a step back from this - considering these are the main talking points you've gotta think WOW they've done well if these are the main problems, but yep it's abit of a shame that they're there, and that some people with better equipement/trained ears/etc happen to notice these

Lets just move on and talk about fav tracks, best versions, and for me, why ''Can't wait too long'' isn't included (whimper whimper, I love that piece of music!!)

chillout and enjoy the boxset people

Yup, I'm a regular Mike Love, ain't I just ?  Big bad bully, harassing the poor helpless poster who cries because the discs are unlistenable. Know something ?

Don't care.  >:D

Like I said, if the 'problems' were on a par with the glitch in Incantations, which sounded just like a skip, then I'd be more sympathetic but, as has been demonstrated by several other posters, they're all but, or totally, inaudible, even when listening 'seriously'. More disturbingly to me, the poster hasn't made any other comment. Nothing positive. Me, I'm inclining towards the notion that it's Cohen using an alias.  ;)

are you going to rabbit all day? For if you are, you'll have ta speak up as I'm a bit mutton. Really, i think everyone should use their loaf a bit more before raisning their pen and ink.
as for myself, I'll have to go on my tod

haha - good bit of perspective...
i havent said it's unlistenable, quite the opposite, i know some have but hey let it be, Lets move on, accepct whats there, some people are p1ssed about it, some hear it an are abit dissapointed to but STILL think its a FANDABIDOSY boxset

   :hat :smokin :police: :smokin :)

Man, why edit your post to add that titbit - just leave it will ya, totally unnecessary and makes you look a bitch slighting someone cause
 'hasn't made any other comment. Nothing positive. Me, I'm inclining towards the notion that it's Cohen using an alias.  ;)'

have a word with yourself please and chill out, pathetic mate, i respect your comments but that is a low one and just fans the flames, it adds nothing positive at all to anyone, least of all you!

i used to read this site for good info, good fun, and minimal c*ck jockeys, sadly the latter is coming out alot in the last few days.
think i've said my piece a few times so will refrain, hope that goes for a few on eitherside of the fence on this topic

sheesh....

It's part of my rugged charm.

The thing that bothered me was simply that the original posts were made before most folks in the U.S. -- one of the biggest markets for this release -- had a chance to buy the box. And you then had replies from people talking about being scared of what they'd find on the set.

Passion is cool. But when you begin to drive people away from buying the lovingly prepared issue of an album we've waited 45 years for -- surely it's easy to see why some of us react strongly to that. Consequences or consistency be damned.

I don't hear any of the "errors"  I can hear hiss n the trumpet on look but I can hear it on the bootlegs too.  It was recorded on analogue tape you know!

Edit on CE sounds the same as the 20/20 version to me.  Some of BW edits back in the day,aren't that hot.  Horrible one in the middle of "I'd love just once to see you"

"I can hear imperfections,"
"I can hear imperfections"
"The hiss on Cabin Essence won't go away, ohhh well"
"I can hear imperfections"
"Minor inaudible imperfections,"
"Gonna go on the Smiley Board and bitch about it all day!"

Seriously all I can make out is great music.

Same here, is something wrong with me with? ???

Not disagreeing with you, but I generally do not watch my music, I listen to it. Now I've listened to Cabin Essence since the Mojo 45 release and I have yet to hear hiss or this horrible pop under normal listening conditions. I have records with worse issues than this. Those headphones are gonna make you deaf. ;)

OK, here's the true gen on the Amazing Disappearing Barnyard Backing Vocals.

Basically, it was an editorial decision. There were mixes of that with Brian's backing vocals and and mixes without, and in the end it was decided it would be nicer to put a spotlight on the track since most people - that is, us -  have heard it with the vocals.  Also, there was an acetate from the original "Heroes" session - verse track on one side, and "Barnyard" with animal sounds but no other vocals on the track - and so it seemed that's what Brian ended up with at the end of that session.  Based on that, the assumption is the the backing vocals were added at a later session. Seems the review streams were sourced from a pre-final set of masters.

Also, the high-pitched whine on "Da Da" ?  That's on the original tape, and while it could have been filtered out, that would have compromised the sonics of what remained. So, not an unforgivable error, but a 1967 tape artefact.

Though it's interesting to note possible glitches, and things that don't sound as great as we'd hoped (I'm in Great Shape),
let's keep in mind that:

A) Mark, Alan and the team put in a zillion hours and I'd bet my bippy they've done the best possible job with what they had.
B) Smile was never finished. Mixing/matching what was there (acetates, demos.....) does not make for seamless editing.
C) Compared to the good, and crappy, boots of Smile I've listened to over the years, I'm SOOOOOOOOO grateful to have this release.
D) Even standard iPOD headphones suffice for a great listening experience.

Are the review streams still up? Could someone rip Barnyard? I'd really love a clean Barnyard with the woo-woo's and no dodgy fly-ins. It's probably my favourite piece from the whole sessions.

Like I explained some time ago, they're watermarked. Individually.

This is an ultra condensed version of the post that follows.

I would like to invite those who have been so dismissive of what i’ve been saying to listen to this side by side comparison of the edit in Wind Chimes: http://snd.sc/twdPuL

Keep in mind that i folded down the stereo piano break (from disc 4), so it will sound slightly different to the true mono from disc 1. I’m just saying this so that the folded down mono doesn’t in anyway distract from the edit, which is the point of this exercise.

If you don’t hear any difference in the quality of the EDIT then you are very fortunate and i envy you. But consider this: don’t ever go into the field of professional audio, please. And don’t scoff at others for having a sharper ear and caring more about things sounding NICE.

P.S. I'm not an audiophile by any stretch of the imagination.

I don't expect more than two people to read this because it is ridiculously long, but so be it.

I feel the need to clarify things that i have said because i will not be made a fool as a result of people misreading, misquoting, distorting, and exaggerating my words. Some of you make me out to be borderline deranged and i won't allow that. Lots of people apparently have severe reading comprehension problems, exhibit cognitive dissonance, and are really good at employing ad hominem and straw man arguments. All while operating under the mentality that this set is above criticism. Critiquing a professional public figure’s work, and evaluating and appreciating the extent of what Capitol has offered us as a product are not mutually exclusive. And critiquing one’s work ≠ being ungrateful for the product.

I want to pose this: say we were instead discussing a period film that is set in Victorian times. The costumes and set design are impeccable, beautifully done, historically accurate, true example of masterwork in every sense...and then you see that one of the main characters is visibly wearing Nike sneakers. I know, i know, this happens in Hollywood films quite often. But now imagine that it keeps happening in every other scene. Would that not absolutely baffle the hell out of you, not to mention frustrate you? Would that not take you out of the film experience? Would you not wish that someone more capable and attentive to details had been chosen to handle that aspect of the job? Would you not feel compelled to voice your criticisms? Now imagine that even though you clearly see the sneakers in every shot, people are condescendingly dismissing your opinion all together and saying that they can’t see the sneakers, so either they’re not visible or it must not matter or you’re making it up. Oh, and you're ungrateful for all the other work that was put into the film. In addition, you're not a fan of the film, and you're just being pedantic. These arguments that “most” people don’t hear these mistakes doesn’t hold up, it’s a weak argument. The mistakes are there and they’re the result of careless, unprofessional work. And those who cannot hear this stuff are the last ones who should be declaring themselves as arbiters of professional-quality work. How about not ridiculing me because i’d like to hear professional work from professionals?

Regarding a lot of these responses that i’ve read, i have not mentioned one single thing about aesthetic/editorial subjective decisions that whoever--be it Linett, Boyd, Brian Wilson, or some Capitol employee--made, such as the BWPS sequence or which version/take of songs were used or fly-ins (except when they produce awful artefacts). Nor have i expressed any complaints about not adhering to previous bootleg mixes/sequences. I know when to argue tastes and when to argue quality of work. The bulk of the issues (plenty more than what i mentioned in the original post, including, yes, the sped-up H&V chorus of the stereo mix) comes from the quality of the edits (to be crystal clear: not the aesthetic or musical value of the edits). That is the big one. That is where i think an extra pair of ears or two would have absolutely elevated this otherwise amazing project into the stratosphere. But what we have here is baffling in how basic, obvious, and easily avoidable these editing mistakes are. This is actually the sloppiest editing work i’ve heard on any major release album. And it confuses and surprises me as to how this could have happened. That is why i said anything in the first place. And i don’t think it’s out of line to question it or call attention to it. I strongly and sincerely believe that a professional should absolutely not under any circumstances be letting so many of these things slide. As someone has already pointed out, whether you realize it or not, minute things like these, that are transparent to most people, shape the way we ALL perceive a recording, and in many cases are what allow us to enjoy a recording without overthinking it. Where’s the threshold of awareness? At some point, if those mistakes became more and more noticeable, more people with worse hearing would notice. And then what? Then it would be okay to be critical? Professional engineers and audio editors should never ever work to meet the lowest common denominator or the standards of those with subpar hearing. On the contrary. And this release, more than any other that i can think of, deserved the best possible treatment.

The ironic thing is that editing digitally, what with being able to zoom in to the individual samples of an audio clip, allows for such ridiculously precise work, yet music that was edited over 40 years ago with razor blades and sticky tape proves to be of a higher caliber work (in terms of edits) when compared to what is presented here. One need not look any further for evidence of this than the 20/20 mix of Cabinessence. Listen to the transition between verse and chorus. Hear any clicks/pops that are a direct result of working with nonlinear computer editing? Furthermore, and what’s saddest about all this, is that a lot of fan mixes don’t exhibit the same careless edits that the official SMILE SESSIONS do. The fidelity here is mind blowing, yes, but what happened to the details? The worse thing about it is that the music of Smile is so dependent on, you guessed it...editing. Editing in relation to Smile is inherent to the music itself. I don’t need to tell any of you this. And it’s about the end result and the effect that it has on the listening experience, not the fact that these mistakes add up to a few seconds here and there--that is a completely ridiculous leap of logic.

There has been some throwing around here of the term “obvious" edits. An obvious edit ≠ a bad edit. An obvious edit can be made well just as it can be made poorly. Obvious edits are often intended to be obvious for effect. Obvious edits are great, what’s not are sloppy ones. Take Hitchcock’s Psycho. The famous shower scene with Janet Leigh getting stabbed. Chalk full of obvious edits. There is something close to 100 edits in a one minute sequence. They’re all incredibly obvious because they’re supposed to be. Now imagine that in between every cut, there was one blank frame that the editor missed, producing a very quick flash in between every single cut. THAT would be poor, careless, sloppy editing (unless, of course, the intended effect was to create epileptic-like flashes) and i am willing to bet my life’s savings that Linett and Boyd did not intend to have audible clicks and pops in between many of the sections of music.

I know there are a few people on this board who work with audio and digital audio editing and know exactly what i’m talking about and know that these mistakes are totally amateur level. And what is so frustrating is that a Smile box set finally comes out, with a lot of care and attention to details in other areas of the project, but then the most glaring, basic audio considerations are ignored. Being a registered member here, i would think it goes without say that i am as thrilled as anyone about the idea of a Smile box set. I, too, never thought it would happen. I have literally been counting down the days in anticipation of enjoying the hell out of this music. I am overjoyed that this moment has come, that the master tapes have been used, that the music sounds so clean and hi-fi, that the set is so exhaustive, that new things have been found, etc. And all of those reasons are exactly why it pains and frustrates me to see these glaring, inexcusable errors that really, really should have been caught by SOMEONE along the way. Some of which, by the way, simply cannot be resolved by rolling your own. How do you roll your own when the mistakes appear within the sections of music like in Cabinessence?

Many have also misunderstood or misconstrued the comments about hiss. I did not say or imply anywhere that the issue is about the simple presence of hiss or hiss not matching. The issue with the choruses of Cabinessence is that, if anything, it sounds more like some sort of noise reduction was accidently and momentarily turned on totally at random, and it actually slightly colors the overall sound quality of the recording in that section. It's as if a filter suddenly and randomly comes on and then off. If that’s not distracting to you, good for you, honestly. If this is a vintage BW edit, i think it's a dodgy call to use it. Even though the rest of this mix of Cabinessence has never sounded better than before, these anomalies make the choruses unusable. In the case of Look and the entrance of the trumpet. Listen to it on the mono mix on disc 1 and then listen to the sessions. The hiss anomaly that happens in the disc 1 version only happens in that version, it’s not in the sessions. If this is not Mark’s work but rather a vintage mono mix, then, of course, i blame Brian Wilson, who we all know was pretty sloppy. So hiss alone is not the issue. I have no problem with tape hiss. Nor would i be in the right to criticize the work because there is tape hiss, that’s absurd and it’s even more absurd that people misconstrued that. Weird filters or misuse of NR in random spots, however, is something else entirely. I don’t care about gear or about what exactly Mark and Alan used or didn’t use or what exactly is going on in something like the chorus of Cabinessence. What i care about is simply whether or not it sounds good, and some of these things don’t. I could say this a hundred times and still get the same dismissive, canned responses that ignore what i’ve said: i am listening to the music, not the signal path.

I have not suggested to anyone how they should listen to and enjoy music. The comment “any serious listening should be done with a pair of good quality studio headphones” was made to avoid the potential flood of people posting that they can’t hear anything (because they’re listening on damn ear buds and/or laptop speakers). You never know with people’s listening habits these days. I mean, people watch films on their phones for christ’s sake. I am not TRYING to listen for mistakes. It’s ridiculous that people don’t realize that this is 100% involuntary. I don’t try to feel hungry or thirsty, i don’t try to feel a mosquito biting my arm. With zero effort, by simply listening, these things pop out easily. They are, to me, and i shudder to think that i am alone, incredibly distracting. They completely take me out of the moment/music when they occur. And as i said, these oversights are to be found all over this release. I do not need to put the music very loudly or damage my system or damage my hearing to hear this stuff. I can hear all of the stuff i cited (with the exception of the Dada noise, which by the way, i stand corrected on calling that something new) on laptop speakers not even at full volume.  

Maybe i have failed to convey this, but what i find the most frustrating about all of this is that the producers went 95% of the way on this monumental release, but then in the last 5% completely dropped the ball. Sure, i’ll get over it, and it goes without say that there are countless bigger problems in the world. But if someone had caught these things before the discs got sent to mastering, i think a lot of you would be grateful just knowing that, at least from a technical standpoint, they made sure to cover all their bases. But because criticism is coming after the product has been pressed and put on the shelves, it’s now sacrilege, ungrateful, petty, or whatever other meaningless copout accusation. I’ll admit i didn’t first present my findings in a neutral manner; it was coming from being shocked and it was an impassioned post because, uh, i am really passionate about this music and this release, but that doesn't mean that it wasn't legitimate criticism, and nobody is above criticism. I am a fan of this music and of this band, and i refuse to sit by idly while anyone suggests that i'm not or that i'm some sort of a lesser fan because of my criticisms of the work that has been presented to us.

I have no desire whatsoever to ruin people’s enjoyment of the music. I would have to be a rather fukked up person to derive pleasure from that sort of thing. If i somehow have ruined anyone’s experience, i sincerely apologize. What i HAD hoped for, as unrealistic as it may be, was to see if enough people had issues with this stuff so that we could maybe possibly try to get corrected files from Capitol. I know that sounds farfetched. But it would be my sincere hope that if and after this stuff is brought to the attention of Linett and Boyd, that they would exhibit more care and attention to detail on the next project. Constructive criticism, people. Maybe the re-issue of The Smile Sessions in ten, twenty years will fix these things.  :lol  By the way, i am extremely thankful for the role that the producers played in convincing Capitol to make this release so exhaustive. That is nothing short of a miracle.

I'm going to shut the hell up now. I have a lot of Smile sessions to go enjoy. Ciao.

Do you think they'd really care now the box is out? It's officially unavailable and looks like it never will be, so it would simply be another Smile bootleg. Someone's got to rip it or it'll be lost forever, and surely it's only a matter of days before they take the stream down now. I don't care about a watermark, I'm hardly going to share it. I'd just love to hear it. Whenever I like. Forever.

Assuming I had access to a stream and ripped it... I've learned the hard way over the last 35-odd years that not everyone is trustworthy in this regard. Plus, the trail would lead back to the nominated journalist, and that wouldn't do him, or his mag, any favors. It's called trust, and it's called journalistic responsibility.

If you're talking about somebody doing a lossy capture of what I assume was a lossy webstream, why not just content yourself with the existing bootlegs for that track?  

Well, I'm not evil. I'd treat the song like my last spliff, i.e FOR MY OWN PERSONAL USE. I'm sorry that ridiculous legal paranoia will leave a truly magnificent piece of art lost forever. I just love Barnyard, as it should be. Not with shitty fly-ins or without the woo's! Personally, I think the woo-woo version was the intended version, with those demo lyrics scrapped. It just swings! Anyone out there with access to the stream, please rip it for the good of music, before they take it down. Time's running out!

I hear the difference. I just don't think it's as big a deal as you make it out to be.

And I don't think your comparison is fair. The aural equivalent of Nike shoes in a Victorian movie would be more like hearing half a second of "Good Vibrations" in the middle of "Wind Chimes". These errors are like seeing a small, flickering black spot in one frame of a movie -- visible? Of course, but hardly a major disruption.

Some of this thread reminds me of what organised religion does to spirituality...  >:D

Make it negotiable in the case of illegal occupations? :)

Or a brief glimpse of a boom mike after you had re-watched it.. paused it.. rewound and paused again.
You can find flaws in EVERYTHING... If you look.. Some people are geared that way

IMHO, the different sonics of the verses compared to the chorusses and tag are the way they are because neither are new mixes from multitracks. I think the verses are from the 1969 mix for 20/20, and the rest are Dec. 1966 Brian test mixes - with quite different sonic characteristics because of different mixing equipment, maybe with different noise reduction.

Well, I'm happy to do that, but it would be an enormous shame if the new remastered version went missing for good, as it will never ever be available again. I'm sure even the lossy review stream would be cleaner than the acetates we all know and love, and the shaker sounds immense on the new remix. Still, I have faith in the die-hards! Beach Boys fans care too much for magic, I'm sure it'll turn up eventually.

second one sounds better because it's quieter

after listening about five times, i heard a small click on the first one

One reason Monicker is so passionate is that his ears are such that the things he is hearing jump out at him, and those glitches get in the way, so he cannot stay silent.  I sympathize, and I do have studio ears.  I've heard glitches on some other CD projects I did and insisted they be fixed where no one else but me heard them.  But none of what he describes jump out at me here.   Some little things I do hear, now that he's pointed them out, but I have to listen out for them.  I am wondering if there may not be artifacts in the downsampling from 88.2 to 44.1?  (Shouldn't happen but who knows).  Or pressing errors in some of the CD plant runs?  So maybe another disc from another plant may sound different?  Not likely, should all be working from digital clones of the master files, but not impossible, and no one's going to buy several copies just to test the idea.  Are these glitches on the vinyl too?  By all rights they should be, if the same HDCD master was used to create the vinyl master.

As a listener I hear lots of other things, note them, but let them pass.  I can hear every dodgy tape splice on the mono Pet Sounds, esp. Wouldn't It Be Nice and God Only Knows, and there are a few.  On TSS, some things just had to be dealt with, like the one-beat dead space in Wind Chimes where the full band comes in.  They covered it with reverb to disguise it.  I will know it's there, heard it a hundred times playing the boot over the years and winced, but I don't care now, they did what they could.  The test is: will most people - digging this as a piece of music - notice these things?  Probably not, certainly if they're playing lossy downloads on mini-speakers or smart-phone earjacks.  Which is how most people do music these days.  Not like us crazy collectors. 

Mastering errors and strange noises on classic recordings can be found and many are catalogued by obsessives and audiophiles.  The Beatles catalog is rife with them.  Some of the best ears in the industry at the time made those records, and these glitches slipped through.  And now there are a few on TSS.   Don't think there can be a wholesale recall and injunction on further sales, though.  U2 got a court order to recall and destroy all copies of a parody LP by the indie band Negativland, it just drove up the price of the units already out in the market; I have my copy and I'm not giving it back to Island Records/UMG to pulp, court order or no.

That's a dependent clause there, my friend. You need an independent clause in front of it.


By god, you're right. :)

Speaking of Smile glitches, am I the only one who noticed the glaring ones at the beginning and toward the end of BWPS? (Still hasn't affected my ability to enjoy that album, though. Love it just as much now as the first time I heard it. And damned if it hasn't competed against Pet Sounds as my favorite album ever.)

Whether I'm hearing these glitches or not (more on that much later) my sympathies lie with Monicker here for sure.

Let me use a different comparison to his. Suppose you were in a top restaurant and ordered the best dish on the menu. It arrives, you marvel at the presentation, salivate and tuck in.

After a few forkfuls you find a tiny fly hidden among (let's say) the vega-tables. You look around the rest of the plate, and find a wee slug among the cabbage. A hair in the sauce. Worse, a fingernail fragment among the parmesan shavings.

All teeny tiny flaws and you wouldn't have noticed them if you'd been staring into your girl's eyes and shovelling the food down your throat without looking at it. But are you really going to enjoy that wonderful, lovingly prepared meal quite the same now, now that you know?

The guy at the next table is wolfing his down enthusiastically, in ignorance – do you say nothing for fear of upsetting him and embarrassing the (professional) chef? Or do you point it out?

None of these comparisons make sense, people. :lol

But that's still an unfair comparison. Anyone would be able to find problems that egregious without prompting, and they would be absolutely appalled. As it's been proven on this forum and plenty of reviews, virtually no one is noticing these problems unless they're explicitly pointed out on a) hi-fi audio equipment, or b) good headphones, and when they are, the reaction to them is much more muted and sensible.

A fair restaurant comparison would be more like eating a world-class steamed vegetable plate and realizing a couple of the carrots came out cold. Noticeable, yes, something I would point out afterwards to my server. But not a deal-breaker by any stretch of the imagination.

I'm not arguing something isn't there, or that it's unfair to point it out. But there's a difference between pointing it out as an aside in a general critique, and writing ten paragraphs about it.

Hey at least they took that annoying drawn out cough out of Worms!  Be happy!

You found a worm in yours?

 :lol

Just thought I'd add a little something. So you guys think the Cabinessence hiss can't be heard in "normal conditions"?

There I am, putting my Smile CD in my car's CD player. It's a 2001 mid-range car, with the stock speakers, and an Alpine head unit. A pretty basic setup. The presets for the head unit are the default ones, no custom eq's. Volume set at 9, the max level being something like 30. The disc starts playing, I'm driving along (windy day, so lots of aerodynamic noises, plus the sound of the tires on the road, and the sound of the engine - about 4000 rpm @ 75 mph), the songs flow into each other brilliantly, I'm not even thinking about the hiss, as if I had completely forgotten its presence. Then the Cabinessence chorus comes on, and *CLICK* - I heard the click, over ALL these noises, without even thinking about it / waiting for it. It was LOUD.

So, yeah, I think it can be heard without headphones.

Fair enough then, my mistake. I stand by the rest of my point though: it's a little overblown to be upset over approximately two seconds of click and hiss.

Suppose you're having a lovely snooze in the sun and someone sticks a pin in your hand and wiggles it, just for a couple of seconds, mind...

I find this very hard to believe.

I'm torn because I've been in monicker's exact position in these kinds of arguments before.  I am no fan of glitches of shoddy mastering at all.  But I'm not finding myself particularly bothered by any of this.  I've listened to the reconstruction 3 or 4 times now and it has yet to really penetrate my enjoyment.  For the most part it just seems like a natural consequence of doing this level of restoration from this many different old tape sources which may not be in the best condition anymore.  Little things like this are bound to crop up.

Now, I will say the last chorus of "Child" with the extra vocals has a kind of crunchy, fuzzy sound to it, I'm guessing this segment was patched in from acetate or something?  The sound is less than ideal, but I'm also really glad those vocals are there.

I easily heard it on my computer speakers while listening to the itunes sample and the itunesLP walkthrough video (at a reasonable volume). Then (finally got the boxset!!!) I heard it on my studio headphones.

I'm not crying about it. I'm not pissed about it. There are FAR more flubs in Pet Sounds, yet we're not crying/whining about that. Yes, I know the argument: "Pet Sounds was rushed." "This is '11, not '66." - What difference does it make? Just listen to the music.

Whatev.

I've heard it in the car and on my netbook speakers.

Good news is I fixed the hiss dropout and edit issues, and tonight I'm getting rid of the Grand Coolie vocals in the second chorus, so it's all good.

:smokin

What did annoy me is that on the stereo mix of "heroes and villains sections" the bicyle rider section comes in a hair to early, making it sound like the Cd skipped.

can now hear the infamous click if I listen on my bext headphones from my studio.  Very miniscule though, never gonna upset me.

Digital clicks are nice 'n' easy to fix, so if anyone who's particularly distraught by them wants to provide a list of tracks/times when they occur, I can clean 'em up for you without much hassle. I only have the 2CD set, mind.

More true gen, concerning the following:


All most persuasive, except for one small point - I've been told that's a boost on the rhythm track on the 8th note at that point (that's how it was explained to me), thus there is no edit to consider the quality of in either sample.

I read this thread and get feelings similar to the time I repeatedly slammed my penis in a locker door.

Heh.  I was thinking "Why hasn't she got any eyebrows?..."

Cheers,
Jon Blum
(Closed-captioned for the Doctor Who impaired:  Romana nitpicking the Mona Lisa)

Whatever works for you.

Yep, I think that's by far the most sloppy work. Which is why I'll make my own big ass H&V mix.

I noticed the clicks/hiss/speed things in Cabin Essence as well, and tried to fix them with a little editing and EQ. It did sound quite nice, but I think if someone with a bit more audio EQ/editing experience could do a much better job. Maybe someone with more expererience could try to fix the mono Cabin Essence?
The sound quality is fantastic, the mono mix sounds extremely good. I like it better than the stereo 20/20 mix.

I'm surprised nobody else asked the rather obvious question - what else of significance changed from the streams to the final version?

I am now really paying attention (on Grado headphones!) to the "audio glitches" and clicks - my conclusion is these all sound like original tape artifacts.  Which may be why, to my ears, they just fly by, there's no fixing them.  Some of them are caused by oversaturation (recording too loud) on the original session tapes.  Monicker might be right that some or all of those could be snipped out, but there comes a point at which too much of that creates its own artifact, as you have to "draw" an approximation of the wave-form where the click had been, or you will hear a skip or a drop-out.   This is the problem archivists have with cleaning up records made originally on metal stampers - take out enough noise, and it becomes dull and airless.

Whoops--accidental early post

I actually had a long post written up the other day (that I decided not to submit) that said almost the exact same thing about the car stereo--I could hear nearly every glitch mentioned in here on my '03 Chevy cavalier stereo at low/mid-volume, before I even saw this thread. I understand both sides of the argument on here about whether the glitches matter, but whether they exist? They're on the disc just as much as Wonderful is.

Glitches and gratuitous hiss are certainly not good. And the pitch shifting and manipulations on “SMiLE” sometimes remind me of Tony Soprano’s mother when they digitally disinterred the poor actress’s head on that “closure” episode.

Personally, however, I had more-or-less written off the “SMiLE” portion of disc 1 already, because it makes no sense at all i.m.h.o. to abide by historical restraint and mix in mono, while simultaneously availing themselves of all the modern convenience of digital crossfades, pitch shifting, etcetera.

The other 4 1/2 discs are phenomenally edited and compiled. Not to mention the fantastic packaging. And imagine how many glitches, rough edits, hiss et al would have been present had the LP been put together on schedule in early ’67. Too bad...but count your blessings!

Anyone else noticed that the H&V transition from the first chorus into the La La La sounds perfect now compared to the video contest version that first leaked?! It must have either been fixed in the interim or the file from the video contest was a working file that wasn't finalized!

And they say i’m all negativity.

Seriously, monicker, I noticed that too...it's much better.

They mixed in mono because some of the stuff CAN'T be mixed in true stereo, including Good Vibrations.  So yes, it makes sense.

I'm sure that won't change yourmind, but it's a shame you've chosen to "write off" SMiLE proper.

Very little, if anything, as far as I can discern. That was the most obvious.

It's me and Brian Wilson and we're high on lucigenics
I'm behind the barn, I'm praying with the praying mantis

Out in the barnyard, my foot is stuck in pig shit
Out in the barnyard, there ain't no hos to get with

I posted this in the Barnyard thread...

They could have digitally removed the piano from the demo and just added the vocals to the acetate like this: http://oron.com/qcxlb2ls4ib7
It takes a little bit of work, but I think it sounds significantly better.

very nice. thanks for posting that

How did you accomplish this?

Question seconded! Would love to know more!

MattB

Good extraction. Although, I don't agree with your assertion in the other thread that this is better than the released version. I can still hear some artifacts, which to me are no less distracting than the piano. I probably would've liked it fine if that's what Linett and Boyd went with, but I don't think they made the wrong choice, either.

Unless I'm mistaken, it's not an extraction as such, as the 'demo' it was taken from is not a multitrack, and is a low-quality mono recording. This makes it all the more impressive, as the piano has been removed without hurting the vocal too badly. And that is a tough thing to do!

OK, so there are a couple artefacts, sure, but it's pretty damn good!

MattB

My new favorite version by a mile. Thanks!

My guess would be some kind of spectral analysis editing -- that's what I expected Mark would have tried. Maybe he did, and didn't like the results. You can still hear the "ghost" of the piano on this new version, but it sounds very nice!

Incidentally, I don't mind the disc one "Barnyard" at all -- I think the fly-ins work very well. I can't stand how they sound on "Great Shape," however.

There's a lot they could have done and not done. This is a fine example of the former. This sounds great, not flawless but infinitely better and more presentable than what's on the CD. And there's no way that it could validly be argued that the reason they didn't do this was because it would be tampering with the tapes or the "integrity" of the music, when on the Holidays tag we get pitch shifted flown-in vocals from another album that now sound like robots, complete with all sorts of very audible artifacts. Before the release i said that within a few days people would be doing this and getting good results, and i was shot down. And now here we are with this great example, in what is another instance of someone on the board doing better work than what's on the official release  ::) Oh well. It's good that we have each other to pick up the slack.

Cheers to bruiteur! I want to buy you a beer. Is there any way you can do the same with Great Shape? That would be fantastic and much appreciated. 

P.S. What do you think is the official explanation for the loud click at 0:45 (which is on the CD and not unique to this file)? That it's on the master tape?  :lol

Can I just say we're extremely lucky to have this guy posting something of this quality to us!!

That original piano demo is a poor, poor quality mono recording. The fact that he has seperated the vocal to this degree is nothing short of wizardry. And the fact he says it's his living says it all! There's not many just floating around forums that could. I wouldn't be surprised if he was one of the geniuses who split the mono beatles tracks to give us multitracks for beatles rockband!

Definitely, instantly, the best version of this nature of fly in i've ever heard by a country mile, and i'm very grateful to you bruiteur for sharing it.

Thank you so much.

Well, having heard the whole box for the first time today I have to say

1) I heard all the glitches that have been mentioned

2) They did not detract from my listening pleasure one iota

Overall, I must agree with Iron Horse. The catalogued glitches and hiss didn't detract from my enjoyment of disc one. Still not crazy about the decision to mix in mono. I understand that in a stereo mix, some of the source material would have necessitated switches from mono to stereo, but this is after all a de facto compilation.

By the way, did any one notice glitches in discs 2-5? I wasn't listening out for them, but didn't notice any.

That sounds great - thanks for posting. Have you tried the same with Great Shape?

Great work bruiteur!

Wow, I'm glad people have enjoyed my Barnyard tinkering. It was just a quick pass from the weekend. I felt compelled to do it after listening to the box set a couple of times. I'll try and give it my full attention as soon as I have free time to address the remaining artifacts and also add back some depth to Brian's voice after the piano removal. I believe that pop at around :45 is from the sourced acetate. Maybe it was missed? I'll take that out too in any revised version.

I'll certainly give I'm in Great Shape a go too when time permits.

I usually use different tools for different bits whenever doing cleaning-type jobs. I think for this I used reNOVAtor, sonicWORX, iZotope RX, and a couple other standbys--a hodge podge really. Also the Altiverb Cello Studios (AKA Western) echo chamber impulse responses for some authentic Brian reverb.

Thanks!

You do good work, Bruiteur; would love to hear Great Shape and more.


The much discussed glitches monicker brought up are a shame, but thankfully don't spoil a very good boxset. Depending on how you're listening to the album they may or may not pop out at you ...

Damn...that's good, Bruiteur. Both the separation *and* the pacing. If the powers that be ever find it in their hearts to release the vanished backing track with the stereo bg vocals, please be the first in line to do that mix, too!

Also, I didn't check the indexing at the end of this, but will your version drop in perfectly and gap-free if I were to replace the one on disc 1 of TSS box?

Thanks again. I look forward to any other tweaks you might do to this. If you could indeed manage to give that vocal a little more body, tonally, that would be great!  That is, getting closer and closer to making it sound like an actual, discrete vocal track. Magic.

Yes, gap free.

Sounds great bruiteur!  Thank you.

Thanks again, bruiteur.

Awesome work Bruiteur!

Had no clue software like that even existed.

Could you post a stereo version of the original H&V/Great Shape/Barnyard demo??

Very good... but Brian sounds very pinched. I'm reminded of "Free As A Bird" and "Real Love".

Very cool.  8) I wonder, could the animal sounds be edited out or brought way down in the mix, in a similar way?

hearing that barnyard is awesome.  also makes me wish they had brought in some digital beast to figure out what kind of things they could do nowadays. 

Excellent work - I'd love to hear what you do with IIGS.

AMAZING work!  Can't wait to hear more...

This is nothing less than incredible! :o I listened to it ten times in a row.

Er... would you be so kind and post the isolated vocals without the backing track, please? I'd love to hear that, too... :-\

Dude join the queue ... I'm hoping he'll do Great Shape next  ;D

[standing in the queue, shifting weight from one foot to the next...]

Damn it, WHEN is he going to get to I'm In Great Shape??? I can hardly stand the wait!

Is there any chance you can upload a vocal only version?

I can't either  ;D

Truly appreciate his work on Barnyard--really made my day to drop that one into my mix.

Great job! Though I wish the vocal had some reverb put on it.  Would fly in a lot more naturally.

He's nopt able to go as far a 'Child' vocals is he? we have the backing track so.... and the new GV stereo track is mixed more like the single version now, so it may work better

damn would love to hear but cant get that ORON download to work, any ideas?

s£$£t!! been sat pressing refresh on oron for an hour now - just keeps saying i have to wait for a download to be available - how the hell do I get it to download???

Choose the "Regular Download" option, then there should be a 60 second countdown.  After that, you need to type in the CAPTCHA text before the actual download link is created.

If you're still having trouble, let us know and I'm sure someone can help you out.  This version of Barnyard is easily the best synchronisation I've ever heard of the song (and I've heard quite a few!)  Great job!

Not quite sure what you mean, I can't get anywhere with that Oron site. Damn I can't wait to hear this as it sounds like what we were all hoping for ...

Click here: http://oron.com/qcxlb2ls4ib7 and scroll right down to the bottom.  The "Regular Download" button is on the right hand side, under a series of red crosses.

nah - all I get on ORON is this message:

Filename: by_new.wav
File size: 8.0 Mb
 

You have to wait 2 hours, 59 minutes, 42 seconds until the next download becomes available.
Become a Premium User and download files instantly without delay.


any chance can someone put it on megaupload or similar??

holey moley!
that's the best I've heard!

Link for those unfortunates: http://www.mediafire.com/?4plhtw73yiillcl

I hate to say it but that is really great!! well done!!

I am twiddling my thumbs, desperately waiting for bruiteur to show up here again with what he said would be a cleaned-up second version of this already amazing job, as well as maybe his attempt at doing the same with IIGS. The wait is agonizing.  :ohyeah

Thank you very much for this Barnyard track, it's really great  ;D

thank you so Much!!!!!!!!  ;D

same here! :serenade :serenade