Barnyard Mistake in Pressing of Smile Sessions CD?

[hypehat]

Or what if inside the packaging of this release there were typos all throughout the text?

Well, there are two.... 

[LostArt]

 

Speaking of mistakes, the amount of technical/engineering blunders all over disc 1 is staggering.

I won't judge until i actually hear it, but reading this kind of thing still scares me a little bit.

Nah, don't worry about it.  I don't hear anything of the sort on disc 1 (well, maybe in one spot, but it's minor).  I don't hear any sloppy work.  I'm interested (a little bit) to read what monicker has to say about these 'technical/engineering blunders'.  Different ears hear different things, and different minds percieve different things.  I'm not saying that there is a right or a wrong in this difference of opinion, I'm just saying that you should listen for yourself, and disregard anyone's opinion until you've actually heard the thing.  You may end up agreeing with monicker, or you may not.

P.S.  There are no digital skips or glitches on the disc that I bought.

Not trying to be confrontational here, but an honest question: would you be saying the same thing if you saw a film, a major release, with boom mics dipping into frame, the shadow of the camera visible in some shots, the camera visible in a scene with a mirror, a crew member's elbow dipping into the corner of the frame?

Or what if inside the packaging of this release there were typos all throughout the text? Or, say, a weird line going through some the photos that's obviously not supposed to be there? (I don't know enough about printing type of errors to offer more hypothetical examples)

There'd be a lot of complaining going on, i reckon.

I'm going to sit with the music for a while before i attempt to write anything. But i also might not even end up doing it because this simultaneously breaks my heart and makes me so upset that i might not have the energy to take on such a task.

Again, I don't hear any sloppy work or technical/engineering blunders (except for one minor one, which I won't mention because I don't want to color anyone's opinion before they hear the thing).  It all sounds fantastic to my ears.  Granted, my ears are 55 years old, and worn from 35 years of standing in front of my guitar amp, but I'm not totally deaf yet.    I came in with no pre-conceived notions about how this was going to sound.  I'd read some opinions, and saw that some folks said that it sounds amazing, and some folks said that they were hearing all sorts of problems.  Because of those huge differences of opinion, I guess I figured that I should be my own judge.  And I am.  And my verdict is that disc 1 sounds absolutely incredible.  Your mileage may vary, and in your case, it does.  No big deal to me.

[Wirestone]

the amount of technical/engineering blunders all over disc 1 is staggering.

List just a few. If there are a "staggering number," it should be easy. The thing this thread is about -- the CD 2 version of Barnyard -- doesn't count because you specified disc 1.

And you said "blunders," not "decisions that I disagree with."

I will say the vocals at about 3:32 in the stereo mix of Heroes and Villains do indeed sound weirdly fast for a few seconds.

[GuyOnTheBeach]

It's not Barnyard, but close, I want to know if the reverb bit in the place of the tape explosion on IIGS was intentional, I don't mind it if it was, but it sounds too digital and strikes me as being more of a placeholder for the tape explosion than an intended for release part.

[monicker]

the amount of technical/engineering blunders all over disc 1 is staggering.

List just a few. If there are a "staggering number," it should be easy. The thing this thread is about -- the CD 2 version of Barnyard -- doesn't count because you specified disc 1.

And you said "blunders," not "decisions that I disagree with."

I will say the vocals at about 3:32 in the stereo mix of Heroes and Villains do indeed sound weirdly fast for a few seconds.

Any serious listening should be done with a pair of good quality studio headphones. These are just a few off the top of my head.

Cabinessence: first chorus: at 1:01 the tone of the entire recoding changes, the hiss changes dramatically and it sounds like some weird filter gets turned on. This one is so bad i don't even want to think about it because there's no other way to get Cabinessence is mono, so we are forced to use this version with the audio equivalent of a stain. Oh, before that, going into the chorus from the verse there is a click/pop, i.e. a sloppy edit. Someone didn't check the very tail end of the verse or the very beginning of the chorus to see if it played without a click. 

Look: intro: when the trumpet comes in the hiss increases and comes in sloppily, i.e. a very fast/short fade in wasn't applied. This isn't rocket science, guys.

CIFOTM (this one is appalling in how bad it is): verse: right before the mute trumpet comes in, the hiss increases dramatically. It doesn't fade in, it just pops in, THEN...the extra hiss totally cuts out BEFORE the trumpet phrase even ends. I can't even comprehend what could have caused that sort of anomaly. But did no one hear this during the entire time this was being worked on??

Holidays: all sorts of digital artefacts /clicking/popping going on with the pitch shifted vocals.

H&V: 3:11 the start of the a cappella section (barbershop) there is a nasty digital click/pop. This one we have known since the mp3 of that video contest.

Barnshine fade: that is NOT a proper fade. It sounds more like a high pass filter was applied at the end, as the fade is abrupt and the tone/sound quality of the entire recording changes dramatically. Something weird is going on there, too, with a change in hiss. Overall, throughout the entire 19 tracks, there are sections that have weird bad shifts in the hiss.

Wind Chimes: listen to the transition/edit of the piano break going back into the chorus. That is the work of a professional?

Dada: 1:57-2:00 during the long rest where there is just the decay of the piano, there is a VERY high pitched and very quiet beeping, like one tone, like a sine wave, it then stops when the music kicks back in.

These are just a few. Like i said, if i have the energy to do it, after i have sat with the music long enough, i am going to write up a review and enumerate all of these things. If it was one or two instances, fine, but there are little clicks and pops ALL OVER tracks 1-19 and generally sloppy edits (i.e. not clean). It's crazy that this got by so many people (or at least two) before being sent for mastering. There are a bunch of other things too, but honestly, i'd like to try to enjoy the glorious music and not focus so much on this stuff. It's hard though.

[drbeachboy]

the amount of technical/engineering blunders all over disc 1 is staggering.

List just a few. If there are a "staggering number," it should be easy. The thing this thread is about -- the CD 2 version of Barnyard -- doesn't count because you specified disc 1.

And you said "blunders," not "decisions that I disagree with."

I will say the vocals at about 3:32 in the stereo mix of Heroes and Villains do indeed sound weirdly fast for a few seconds.

Any serious listening should be done with a pair of good quality studio headphones. These are just a few off the top of my head.

Cabinessence: first chorus: at 1:01 the tone of the entire recoding changes, the hiss changes dramatically and it sounds like some weird filter gets turned on. This one is so bad i don't even want to think about it because there's no other way to get Cabinessence is mono, so we are forced to use this version with the audio equivalent of a stain. Oh, before that, going into the chorus from the verse there is a click/pop, i.e. a sloppy edit. Someone didn't check the very tail end of the verse or the very beginning of the chorus to see if it played without a click. 

Look: intro: when the trumpet comes in the hiss increases and comes in sloppily, i.e. a very fast/short fade in wasn't applied. This isn't rocket science, guys.

CIFOTM (this one is appalling in how bad it is): verse: right before the mute trumpet comes in, the hiss increases dramatically. It doesn't fade in, it just pops in, THEN...the extra hiss totally cuts out BEFORE the trumpet phrase even ends. I can't even comprehend what could have caused that sort of anomaly. But did no one hear this during the entire time this was being worked on??

Holidays: all sorts of digital artefacts /clicking/popping going on with the pitch shifted vocals.

H&V: 3:11 the start of the a cappella section (barbershop) there is a nasty digital click/pop. This one we have known since the mp3 of that video contest.

Barnshine fade: that is NOT a proper fade. It sounds more like a high pass filter was applied at the end, as the fade is abrupt and the tone/sound quality of the entire recording changes dramatically. Something weird is going on there, too, with a change in hiss. Overall, throughout the entire 19 tracks, there are sections that have weird bad shifts in the hiss.

Wind Chimes: listen to the transition/edit of the piano break going back into the chorus. That is the work of a professional?

Dada: 1:57-2:00 during the long rest where there is just the decay of the piano, there is a VERY high pitched and very quiet beeping, like one tone, like a sine wave, it then stops when the music kicks back in.

These are just a few. Like i said, if i have the energy to do it, after i have sat with the music long enough, i am going to write up a review and enumerate all of these things. If it was one or two instances, fine, but there are little clicks and pops ALL OVER tracks 1-19 and generally sloppy edits (i.e. not clean). It's crazy that this got by so many people (or at least two) before being sent for mastering. There are a bunch of other things too, but honestly, i'd like to try to enjoy the glorious music and not focus so much on this stuff. It's hard though.

Can you can tell us where the digital files are sourced from? CD, LP, iTunes Download, etc?

[SloopJohnB]

Can you can tell us where the digital files are sourced from? CD, LP, iTunes Download, etc?

For what it's worth, after a very quick listen with mid-priced earphones, I was able to hear most of the things monicker refers to. I had already noticed some myself, such as the high-pitched noise in Dada and the noise issues in Cabinessence and CIFOTM. I don't know the reasons behind these various noises, there might be a perfectly good explanation (damaged tapes, etc.). What CAN'T be explained, though, is the outrageous speed mistake in the stereo mix of H&V, which is very easily noticeable even without headphones.

And I was able to hear all this from my CD (i.e. not an LP or an iTunes download).

[Mr. Cohen]

Cabinessence: first chorus: at 1:01 the tone of the entire recoding changes, the hiss changes dramatically and it sounds like some weird filter gets turned on. This one is so bad i don't even want to think about it because there's no other way to get Cabinessence is mono, so we are forced to use this version with the audio equivalent of a stain. Oh, before that, going into the chorus from the verse there is a click/pop, i.e. a sloppy edit. Someone didn't check the very tail end of the verse or the very beginning of the chorus to see if it played without a click.

Amen! I'm an amateur producer and even I could put together the verse and the chorus of "Cabinessence" without a click popping up. Some simple fade ins/fade outs could've fixed the issue.

[theCOD]

Cabinessence: first chorus: at 1:01 the tone of the entire recoding changes, the hiss changes dramatically and it sounds like some weird filter gets turned on. This one is so bad i don't even want to think about it because there's no other way to get Cabinessence is mono, so we are forced to use this version with the audio equivalent of a stain. Oh, before that, going into the chorus from the verse there is a click/pop, i.e. a sloppy edit. Someone didn't check the very tail end of the verse or the very beginning of the chorus to see if it played without a click.

That's a picture of the hiss in the first chorus, and it happens in the second chorus as well, but drops out at a different point.

Not to mention the freakin' phantom vocals during the second chorus! Every time it starts all I can hear is "Have you SSS..."



I'm very happy to see this album finally being released, and I'm trying my best to just enjoy it, but like you said, this stuff is hard to ignore.

[Mr. Cohen]

Also, having that harpsichord in the "Bicycle Rider" chorus end while the bridge is starting up is just terrible sounding. Luckily we can "roll our own", lol.

[The_Holy_Bee]

I've got to agree with Monicker that it's surprising that there are so many (irritatingly small) instances of hiss and dodgy edits on these first 19 tracks/2 CDs.

This is not to denigrate the overall ambition or quality of the product, or the heroic efforts of Mark and Alan. It's just frustrating to be so close to, say, a definitive mono Cabin Essence... and discover deeply distracting hiss that's clearly the result of someone missing something along the line. Until there's an answer from Mark or Alan on the points Monicker raises, or on whether the wrong version of Barnyard was put on disc 2 by mistake (this is the only apparent flub that actually upsets me a little), we won't know if some of these issues were unavoidable, or at what point in the process they occurred.

I don't think these criticisms should be seen as of the bulk of the actual work done by Mark and Alan, which is extraordinary, but of a certain lack of quality control in the final stages, and the distracting mixing/mastering errors which are apparent to even my untrained ears. In fact, these are even more irritating because the base work done is so f***ing great, and it's especially frustrating if - had they been detected - some of the errors could have been as easily fixed as it appears they might have been.

[37!ws]

Well, remember, Mark's going to do another iconfetch interview for the sole purpose of answering listener questions after they've had time to soak in TSS, so....why not? He might be able to explain why that all happened.

[The_Holy_Bee]

Hey 37!ws, I did think of that as an opportunity. How are iconfetch soliciting the questions? I'm sure there are far better people than me, in terms of technical understanding, to pose 'em.

[37!ws]

Just e-mail host @ iconfetch . com -- I did that and got a response from Tony...

[Mr. Cohen]

I don't think these criticisms should be seen as of the bulk of the actual work done by Mark and Alan, which is extraordinary, but of a certain lack of quality control in the final stages, and the distracting mixing/mastering errors which are apparent to even my untrained ears. In fact, these are even more irritating because the base work done is so f***ing great, and it's especially frustrating if - had they been detected - some of the errors could have been as easily fixed as it appears they might have been.

That's just it. They're great mixers/producers. I give them all the credit in the world, there. But maybe they should've had a composer that was familiar with music editing software around to help. Then, that person could've been like: "Woah... fading a pitch-shifted 'Whispering Winds' into 'Wind Chimes'? Yeah, maybe that sounds nice theoretically, but I'm going to strongly suggest we don't do that. This is a major archival release, not a Youtube video."

[Paul2010]

I think a digital release with some upgrades could be a solution to fix these small errors. And they could include Barnyard with the backing vocals!

[monicker]

You guys, there are so many of these issues, i just want to cry. I just heard the album portion again and it's really difficult to ignore this stuff. I really, really wish i could because these are my favorite recordings in the annals of pop music. With such an important, monumental release, and how much care and attention were put into the packaging, you'd think that the most BASIC engineering/editing mistakes would be easily avoided. Anyone putting together any record, whether it's the most famous unreleased album of all time, or something with a lower profile, should have dog ears and O.C.D. That is very far from the case here. It pains me. I've always wanted to like Mark Linett because he is essentially the guy in charge of reissuing the music of my favorite band, but i have always found issues with his work. These things on The Smile Sessions are amateur hour, seriously, i don't say that to be mean spirited or for attention or anything of the sort, it's truly what i think from a critical and objective standpoint, and i just can't believe this passes as professional work. A professional should not be overlooking these sort of things. And what's most baffling is that there were TWO people, four ears, working on this, and STILL all these things got by them. I am sorry but i just don't think there is an excuse. Not when you're employed by Capitol records and you are working on arguably the most important audio documents of popular music in the 20th century. Imagine (insert big name film director here) comes out with a new film and film school type of slip-ups are to be found all over the film.

I am going to listen again and try to accept all these blunders. I guess eventually i'll get used to them.

[monicker]

I think a digital release with some upgrades could be a solution to fix these small errors. And they could include Barnyard with the backing vocals!

i was dreaming about that. That would be wonderful but i doubt that is realistic at all. I would happily buy my plane ticket to California, pay for lodging, and not accept a penny to sit through all 5 CDs with headphones and no distractions and note every single little thing wrong, if they were looking for another pair of ears to make corrections to this.

[monicker]

Can you can tell us where the digital files are sourced from? CD, LP, iTunes Download, etc?

I don't know the reasons behind these various noises, there might be a perfectly good explanation (damaged tapes, etc.).

Damaged tapes can't explain any of the things i mentioned. What damaged tapes CAN explain, however, is something i didn't even mention previously: In the beginning of Holidays: on the fourth beat of the third bar there is a little tiny drop out, due to, i believe, tape damage. No one can be blamed for that though, that is totally acceptable.

EDIT: Actually, there is more minor tape damage throughout the beginning of Holidays, not just that one spot.

[37!ws]

What about the hiss??? I'm sure there wasn't a "Hiss" button that Mark & company pressed.

[theCOD]

What about the hiss??? I'm sure there wasn't a "Hiss" button that Mark & company pressed.

Did you remember to toggle the hiss button off? Whoops! Why do we have that damn thing anyway?!

I can't think of any explanation for it. I've briefly considered that a watermarked copy was accidentally included, but that seems like a stretch.

Edit: I went back and listened to the Mojo single and it has the same issue.

[Mahalo]

FWIW I learn a lot of cool audio stuff from the likes of Monicker and others...

[Andrew G. Doe]

....and if so can a corrected version be distributed to us needy fans somehow?

Good point - if the review copies and released copies contain differences, the bootleggers will be on it in a flash.

What else differs?

Or maybe that was the watermarking - any contraband that included those box could be quickly id'ed as such and tracked back by other means?

Hmm very interesting.  Hadn't thought of that myself.

Nope.

[Andrew G. Doe]

I'm confused. My copy I could hear the background vocals very well.

On disc 2?

On CD2/track 4, from 0.23 onwards, in stereo ? Not on Spotify.

I mean proper bvs, not the animal noises.

[The Demon]

I'll certainly admit others are more knowledgable than myself with audio programs, but I'm a bit skeptical here.  These "mistakes" are only on the box set and not the vinyl or downloadable tracks that came out in the past months?

I get the impression that this compiled sequence is a bit like the extended version of the Wicker Man, where they used footage from the short version where possible so it would look clean, and used the inferior footage that only existed in the long version where necessary.  But I don't have my box to listen to yet, so I can only guess.  I just find it odd that people are so disappointed with this new edit when no one seemed to like it a few weeks ago, anyway--before they'd heard it.

I also take it there are no issues with anything other than tracks 1-19?  It can't really be worth crying over if that's the case.  It's just music.