Diamond Head....Smile link?

[letsmakeit31]

Diamond Head....Part of Smile?? This could easily be part of the Smile Sessions Extra tracks or does this track have no place within Smile. To me it does sound like a great track to go after Mrs O'Leary's Cow cause it sounds like a fire flicking out and going into water sounds of Diamond Head. Agree or disagree??

[LostArt]

I don't know.  People keep bringing this song up but, to me, it sounds more Smiley Smile than Smile.  I know Brian had it on his famous early-rough-draft-BWPS list, along with Time To Get Alone, but to me it just doesn't sound like Smile.  Don't get me wrong, I do like the song, but it sounds like a loose jam because, well, it is.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Disagree.


It's a great song and it doesn't have the usual structure of a typical Beach Boys song but that's about where the comparisons to Smile end. It doesn't have the kind of fullness that pretty much every Smile track has and it's overuse of non-instrument or non-vocal produced sound make it entirely unlike anything recorded for Smile. To me, it has no place whatsoever. But it's still a very interesting song.

[letsmakeit31]

To me Diamond Head sounds more Smile than Time to Get Alone to my ears at least. Glad to see it was in an early list for BWPS but I think their may of been an uproar if it was included??...Not by me lol

[Chocolate Shake Man]

To me Diamond Head sounds more Smile than Time to Get Alone to my ears at least. Glad to see it was in an early list for BWPS but I think their may of been an uproar if it was included??...Not by me lol

Well, niether Diamond Head nor Time to Get Alone were Smile tracks, which is a pretty good reason why neither are on the forthcoming box set.

More over, it depends on which Smile track you're thinking about. Wonderful sounds more like Time to Get Alone than Diamond Head for example. But really the aesthetic for both TTGA and DH are different than the one used on Smile.

[letsmakeit31]

For me personally  Diamond Head follows on from Mrs O'Learys Cow perfectly and seems to be a nature end for the Bicycle Rider who started from Plymouth Rock and finishes at Diamond Head

[Chocolate Shake Man]

For me personally  Diamond Head follows on from Mrs O'Learys Cow perfectly and seems to be a nature end for the Bicycle Rider who started from Plymouth Rock and finishes at Diamond Head

Fair enough. Again, though, it is not a Smile track and wasn't recorded in the same period and doesn't sound like it was. It has neither the scope nor the grandiosity of the Smile music nor does it really have much of the inventiveness. The kinds of things that are taken from nature on DH would have been achieved with instruments had the song been written during the Smile era. Again, it's still a cool song but to me, just doesn't fit at all with Smile.

Also, if you want to consider the theme of the Bicycle Rider journey, it's all really accomplished in Do You Like Worms - there is a Hawaiian section on that song which basically finishes things up.

[letsmakeit31]

Very true I'd forgot about the Hawaiian section in DYLW. Maybe Diamond Head was recorded for inclusion for Smile which may of still be released in late 67, or 68?? I'm just thinking out aloud

[drbeachboy]

For me personally  Diamond Head follows on from Mrs O'Learys Cow perfectly and seems to be a nature end for the Bicycle Rider who started from Plymouth Rock and finishes at Diamond Head

Fair enough. Again, though, it is not a Smile track and wasn't recorded in the same period and doesn't sound like it was. It has neither the scope nor the grandiosity of the Smile music nor does it really have much of the inventiveness. The kinds of things that are taken from nature on DH would have been achieved with instruments had the song been written during the Smile era. Again, it's still a cool song but to me, just doesn't fit at all with Smile.

Also, if you want to consider the theme of the Bicycle Rider journey, it's all really accomplished in Do You Like Worms - there is a Hawaiian section on that song which basically finishes things up.

There has to be some link to Smile if Brian was considering it for the BWPS live presentation. I remember hearing about this weeks before the first show, so it must have been seriously considered.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Very true I'd forgot about the Hawaiian section in DYLW. Maybe Diamond Head was recorded for inclusion for Smile which may of still be released in late 67, or 68?? I'm just thinking out aloud

Haha - I appreciate your curiosity.

Again, though, I'd have to say no. I don't think there were plans to release Smile in late 67 or 68 (DH was first recorded in April 68) and if there were, certainly not from Brian who was mostly in charge of the track. As was noted above, the track seems to be a consequence of a jam session. Check the writers credited for the song and you'll find session musicians. Again, too, I must insist that the song really bears very little resemblance to the sound of Smile and that itself is a good indication of it not being associated with the album in any way.

[37!ws]

So...TBHWY, this is the first I've heard of "Diamond Head' and "Time To Get Alone" being considered for Smile in '04...source???

[Chocolate Shake Man]

For me personally  Diamond Head follows on from Mrs O'Learys Cow perfectly and seems to be a nature end for the Bicycle Rider who started from Plymouth Rock and finishes at Diamond Head

Fair enough. Again, though, it is not a Smile track and wasn't recorded in the same period and doesn't sound like it was. It has neither the scope nor the grandiosity of the Smile music nor does it really have much of the inventiveness. The kinds of things that are taken from nature on DH would have been achieved with instruments had the song been written during the Smile era. Again, it's still a cool song but to me, just doesn't fit at all with Smile.

Also, if you want to consider the theme of the Bicycle Rider journey, it's all really accomplished in Do You Like Worms - there is a Hawaiian section on that song which basically finishes things up.

There has to be some link to Smile if Brian was considering it for the BWPS live presentation. I remember hearing about this weeks before the first show, so it must have been seriously considered.

I think though that the original Smile presentation was much looser. It's already quite loose - things like Love to Say Dada which itself has a very vague connection to the album is included - but it seems like originally they were throwing in as much as possible even if there was no connection - mostly because they appeared to be going for a thematic approach rather than any attempt for authenticity. There was a real drive to push for a Hawaiian theme at those concerts too - they placed "Hawaii" into the pre-show setlist, Dada lyrics turned into a song about Hawaii. It's not surprising that they would consider Diamond Head even though it lacks a connection to Smile.

[onkster]

Gosh, the only part of "TTGA" that sounded anything like SMiLE is the little instrumental break that seems to borrow heavily from Look/Song for Children. I presume that was just sort of recycling thing--"well, we didn't get to use 'Look', so I'll just use that lick for TTGA..." After it had already been used, by the way, on GV...

"Diamond Head": I still don't hear it or feel it, as being a SMiLE thing. Maybe it was sort of an "early clue to the new direction" Brian might have had before he gave up being the full-time BB honcho. Always makes me wonder--if he had finished SMiLE, and it had done well, what would have been next? (And my guess would be: still something very much like Smiley Smile--the usual pattern with groups who had big ambitious "trip" albums was to come back to earth for something simple...which I think is generally a good plan. Otherwise they'd get in that horrible game of "oh, cripes, we've gotta top Mount Everest now...")

Babble, babble. Sorry.

[drbeachboy]

Whoa, there Cowboy. Dada is the only song on the live presentation that post dates the end of the Smile sessions, and just barely. Doing Hawaii in the first set, nor any song in the first set or encore has nothing to do with the Smile set. The Movement sequencing may or may not have its roots in the live presentation of Smile, but the songs themselves were all authentic.

[letsmakeit31]

Very true I'd forgot about the Hawaiian section in DYLW. Maybe Diamond Head was recorded for inclusion for Smile which may of still be released in late 67, or 68?? I'm just thinking out aloud

Haha - I appreciate your curiosity.

Again, though, I'd have to say no. I don't think there were plans to release Smile in late 67 or 68 (DH was first recorded in April 68) and if there were, certainly not from Brian who was mostly in charge of the track. As was noted above, the track seems to be a consequence of a jam session. Check the writers credited for the song and you'll find session musicians. Again, too, I must insist that the song really bears very little resemblance to the sound of Smile and that itself is a good indication of it not being associated with the album in any way.
Listening to it again I can hear it being more "tighter", and a lot more "Cleaner" sound, but I it's in three sections to my ears followers on beautifully from Mrs O Leary's Cow, But it being a "Jam" doesn't sit right to me but hell I'm not a musican so what do I know lol  

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Whoa, there Cowboy. Dada is the only song on the live presentation that post dates the end of the Smile sessions, and just barely. Doing Hawaii in the first set, nor any song in the first set or encore has nothing to do with the Smile set. The Movement sequencing may or may not have its roots in the live presentation of Smile, but the songs themselves were all authentic.

Well, you basically just repeated what I said. Dada is connected to Smile, though vaguely. And I suggested that what became BWPS was an attempt at an authentic presentation rather than what was perhaps a more thematic presentation in draft form which included songs like Time to Get Away and Diamond Head.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Listening to it again I can hear it being more "tighter", and a lot more "Cleaner" sound, but I it's in three sections to my ears followers on beautifully from Mrs O Leary's Cow, But it being a "Jam" doesn't sit right to me but hell I'm not a musican so what do I know lol

Yeah, to me it would stick out like a sore thumb from Smile because it is an entirely different aesthetic presentation than anything on the Smile album. But certainly that wouldn't stop me from putting the two songs together if I liked the way the transition sounded.

[bossaroo]

I've got Diamond Head in my SMiLE mix, starting with Liitle Pad and crossfading the two at 2:06. The percussion comes in just after the last note of Little Pad fades out.

Maybe neither song was slated for SMiLE but it sounds f*cking perfect to my ears after DaDa.

[drbeachboy]

Whoa, there Cowboy. Dada is the only song on the live presentation that post dates the end of the Smile sessions, and just barely. Doing Hawaii in the first set, nor any song in the first set or encore has nothing to do with the Smile set. The Movement sequencing may or may not have its roots in the live presentation of Smile, but the songs themselves were all authentic.

Well, you basically just repeated what I said. Dada is connected to Smile, though vaguely. And I suggested that what became BWPS was an attempt at an authentic presentation rather than what was perhaps a more thematic presentation in draft form which included songs like Time to Get Away and Diamond Head.

You stated that BWPS was "quite loose" do to Dada. You confused me, maybe still do. How does one song, possibly the very last Smile song, make it loose? Also, if Brian was going to use TTGA and Diamond Head, who is not to say that all or parts of those songs were composed during the Smile Era? There had to be some connection, because as it stands all of the other songs used on BWPS were from the Smile Era.

[puni puni]

So...TBHWY, this is the first I've heard of "Diamond Head' and "Time To Get Alone" being considered for Smile in '04...source???

[runnersdialzero]

So...TBHWY, this is the first I've heard of "Diamond Head' and "Time To Get Alone" being considered for Smile in '04...source???

I believe I was told...

This was the result of some very early ideas for these live shows (not the recorded album) and the idea was to play Smile (or portions of Smile) along with other tracks that were not "Smile" specific but were written around the time of Smile but would fit with the material, thus including other tracks that were written before or after that would stand well alongside the Smile material. Keep in mind "Time To Get Alone" was first tracked in October of '67, so likely had its beginnings at least a few months prior.

That was probably poorly worded etc. but y'get the idear, rite?

[puni puni]

i think there are a lot of stuff we don't know about smile but brian ain't never gonna tell cuz thats just how he is

[runnersdialzero]

i think there are a lot of stuff we don't know about smile but brian ain't never gonna tell cuz thats just how he is

Mmhmm. Breaks mah heart, as the people who know stuff aren't gonna be around forever

[stack-o-tracks]

From Plymouth Rock to http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204524604576609000066845070.html

THE MYSTERY GAPES WIDER. 

[Mr. Cohen]

It has neither the scope nor the grandiosity of the Smile music nor does it really have much of the inventiveness.

Perhaps. But take "You're Welcome". What we know of "I'm In Great Shape" (as opposed to what was done in '04). The mock ragtag production concept behomd "Vege-tables". I think Brian was looking to add a few homespun moments to Smile.