How Dry I Am - the musical origins of Smile?????

[desmondo]

I suppose this is one for you musicians out there and apologies if this has been posted before

There is a great book called "Inside the Music of Brian Wilson" by Philip Lambert, who is a Professor of Music in New York, which has 30 odd pages of musical explanation on Good Vibrations and Smile

http://www.popmatters.com/pm/review/inside-the-music-of-brian-wilson-by-philip-lambert

Interestingly he seems to link the old standard How Dry I Am - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Near_Future - to the key tunes in Smile - particularly H&V, CE, BY, YAMS/OMP etc

Googling and searching I found this - to my ears - admittedly drummers ears - you can hear a lot of Smileisms in this piece - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cb-29YlZuqY - go to around the 1:00 mark for the good stuff and keep listening.

Has anyone got any 'educated' thoughts on this???

[LostArt]

Can't go to YouTube at work, so I'm not sure what that is, but just off the top of my head...How Dry I Am...the first 4 notes are V I II III, which is also true of the Barnyard lead vocal melody.  Cabinessence lead vocal melody is close...V VI I II III.  The YAMS melody, in it's original major key, is V I II III, however, Brian changes up the melody by doing it in a minor key, and he doesn't start on the V.  Not sure how H&V fits in.  I'd have to listen.  Interesting.

[desmondo]

Can't go to YouTube at work, so I'm not sure what that is, but just off the top of my head...How Dry I Am...the first 4 notes are V I II III, which is also true of the Barnyard lead vocal melody.  Cabinessence lead vocal melody is close...V VI I II III.  The YAMS melody, in it's original major key, is V I II III, however, Brian changes up the melody by doing it in a minor key, and he doesn't start on the V.  Not sure how H&V fits in.  I'd have to listen.  Interesting.

Thanks for that - I think the H&V link is the continuous variations on a theme which of course applies to a whole load of Smile - CE and MOC for example

The Youtube clip is a slight comedy piece as well but you will get the idea - YAMS - well part of it - is loud and clear

[guitarfool2002]

Can't go to YouTube at work, so I'm not sure what that is, but just off the top of my head...How Dry I Am...the first 4 notes are V I II III, which is also true of the Barnyard lead vocal melody.  Cabinessence lead vocal melody is close...V VI I II III.  The YAMS melody, in it's original major key, is V I II III, however, Brian changes up the melody by doing it in a minor key, and he doesn't start on the V.  Not sure how H&V fits in.  I'd have to listen.  Interesting.

Thanks for that - I think the H&V link is the continuous variations on a theme which of course applies to a whole load of Smile - CE and MOC for example

The Youtube clip is a slight comedy piece as well but you will get the idea - YAMS - well part of it - is loud and clear

I like discussions centered around the musical analysis of these songs, this is cool.

I'm going to take the voice of doubt here and say a lot of the similarities are coincidental, and at some point musical cliches or arranger's cliches are sounds we could relate to dozens of songs, mostly because cliches have been proven to work in certain musical situations and are easy to plug in.

I can't see too much of a connection between "How Dry I Am" and Smile beyond a few cliches sounding similar. Taking it beyond that notion could be a bit of a stretch.

Citing You Are My Sunshine and Old Master Painter could be misleading, because in those cases Brian and/or Van Dyke served as arrangers and interpreters on those, and did nothing in the way of writing them. They're cover songs, and if we consider the major-to-minor key change, it's a simple reharmonization that arrangers do all the time to create interest or breathe new life into a song. If there are similarities between YAMS/OMP and anything from How Dry I Am, the discussion shifts to the arrangement, as they are not original compositions.

To dig deeper, one of the hearts of the original Smile compositions, perhaps one of the key elements in several sections of Brian's Smile writing, is that of the unresolved ii/V chord progression. It's a progression that could be considered a Dorian modal progression depending on the context. It was also made popular after Miles and Coltrane exploited it as a vehicle for extended modal soloing, especially Coltrane on "My Favorite Things". With slight variations, Coltrane using a modal ii to iii minor vamp is nearly the same as a ii to V unresolved vamp, with one chord tone different. Same with So What by Miles.

Citing other examples of this vamp in rock: Evil Ways by Santana, Whipping Post by the Allman Bros, Moondance by Van Morrison, the solo section of Light My Fire by the Doors, Down By The River by Neil Young, etc. Literally dozens of tunes can be plugged into that modal sound.

Go back to Brian's original compositions for Smile: Bicycle Rider, various sections of Heroes, parts of Child Is Father, sections of Love To Say Dada...it's a modal sound. Zappa credited Brian with changing the notion of the ii-V resolution in pop in the chorus of Little Deuce Coupe, by simply reversing the chords. Smile has sections of that kind of twist as well, at various parts.

There are definite influences and inspirations all throughout Smile, and although it is a neat exercise to plug things in like "How Dry I Am", I don't see it in a bigger picture with harmonic analysis as much as some other examples.

[desmondo]

Can't go to YouTube at work, so I'm not sure what that is, but just off the top of my head...How Dry I Am...the first 4 notes are V I II III, which is also true of the Barnyard lead vocal melody.  Cabinessence lead vocal melody is close...V VI I II III.  The YAMS melody, in it's original major key, is V I II III, however, Brian changes up the melody by doing it in a minor key, and he doesn't start on the V.  Not sure how H&V fits in.  I'd have to listen.  Interesting.

Thanks for that - I think the H&V link is the continuous variations on a theme which of course applies to a whole load of Smile - CE and MOC for example

The Youtube clip is a slight comedy piece as well but you will get the idea - YAMS - well part of it - is loud and clear

I like discussions centered around the musical analysis of these songs, this is cool.

I'm going to take the voice of doubt here and say a lot of the similarities are coincidental, and at some point musical cliches or arranger's cliches are sounds we could relate to dozens of songs, mostly because cliches have been proven to work in certain musical situations and are easy to plug in.

I can't see too much of a connection between "How Dry I Am" and Smile beyond a few cliches sounding similar. Taking it beyond that notion could be a bit of a stretch.

Citing You Are My Sunshine and Old Master Painter could be misleading, because in those cases Brian and/or Van Dyke served as arrangers and interpreters on those, and did nothing in the way of writing them. They're cover songs, and if we consider the major-to-minor key change, it's a simple reharmonization that arrangers do all the time to create interest or breathe new life into a song. If there are similarities between YAMS/OMP and anything from How Dry I Am, the discussion shifts to the arrangement, as they are not original compositions.

To dig deeper, one of the hearts of the original Smile compositions, perhaps one of the key elements in several sections of Brian's Smile writing, is that of the unresolved ii/V chord progression. It's a progression that could be considered a Dorian modal progression depending on the context. It was also made popular after Miles and Coltrane exploited it as a vehicle for extended modal soloing, especially Coltrane on "My Favorite Things". With slight variations, Coltrane using a modal ii to iii minor vamp is nearly the same as a ii to V unresolved vamp, with one chord tone different. Same with So What by Miles.

Citing other examples of this vamp in rock: Evil Ways by Santana, Whipping Post by the Allman Bros, Moondance by Van Morrison, the solo section of Light My Fire by the Doors, Down By The River by Neil Young, etc. Literally dozens of tunes can be plugged into that modal sound.

Go back to Brian's original compositions for Smile: Bicycle Rider, various sections of Heroes, parts of Child Is Father, sections of Love To Say Dada...it's a modal sound. Zappa credited Brian with changing the notion of the ii-V resolution in pop in the chorus of Little Deuce Coupe, by simply reversing the chords. Smile has sections of that kind of twist as well, at various parts.

There are definite influences and inspirations all throughout Smile, and although it is a neat exercise to plug things in like "How Dry I Am", I don't see it in a bigger picture with harmonic analysis as much as some other examples.

Wow - thats way above my understanding but I think lost art has it sorted above.

It is essentially the first four notes of How Dry I Am figure V I II III and variations of it that crop up throughout Smile - I am not saying BW heard the tune and went that way but its interesting to me that these 'old standards references' keep cropping up in Smile - Gee, Rhapsody In Blue (compositional strategy), HDIA, OMP/YAMS, IWBA

The book uses this as an example because many Smile songs share a melodic idea and mentions the following as fitting the HDIA figure

First four notes of Barnyard
YAMS - change in key
First four notes of HGS
Start of Cantina - variation
CE - lamp the light ... variation

[LostArt]

Oh yeah, Cantina melody, but that's I II III V.  Maybe nothing, as Craig said, but interesting.

[hypehat]

Isn't the whole point of that youtube Desmondo posted that this supposedly fits into anything? Like, it's supposedly one piece but, played with the right sense of humour it's also classical pieces, the sounds doorbells make, film scores, ridiculous dixieland jazz, Youu are My Sunshine, etc.

[guitarfool2002]

but its interesting to me that these 'old standards references' keep cropping up in Smile - Gee, Rhapsody In Blue (compositional strategy), HDIA, OMP/YAMS, IWBA

I think this is very perceptive and accurate. I think it shows how much of an influence Van Dyke Parks had on Brian Wilson as a songwriter. There are numerous interviews where those around them saw the two musicians influencing and inspiring each other. One important aspect of Smile that gets underplayed and sometimes ignored (even by VDP himself) was Van Dyke's influence on the music and the writing and arranging of the music. He is is modest, he gives all the credit he can give to Brian, but the results are in the songs.

Consider this: Was that particular 'old standards' influence heard all that much in Brian Wilson's music before he teamed up with Van Dyke? That is apart from Rhapsody, and I'm also not talking about Four Freshmen or Hi-Lo's jazzy vocal arrangements, but definite influences from that era in harmony and overall sound. With Van Dyke all but adopting a 1930's persona and loving that era in many ways, who else would have brought that to the table of Brian Wilson in 1966?

[The Demon]

but its interesting to me that these 'old standards references' keep cropping up in Smile - Gee, Rhapsody In Blue (compositional strategy), HDIA, OMP/YAMS, IWBA

I think this is very perceptive and accurate. I think it shows how much of an influence Van Dyke Parks had on Brian Wilson as a songwriter. There are numerous interviews where those around them saw the two musicians influencing and inspiring each other. One important aspect of Smile that gets underplayed and sometimes ignored (even by VDP himself) was Van Dyke's influence on the music and the writing and arranging of the music. He is is modest, he gives all the credit he can give to Brian, but the results are in the songs.

Consider this: Was that particular 'old standards' influence heard all that much in Brian Wilson's music before he teamed up with Van Dyke? That is apart from Rhapsody, and I'm also not talking about Four Freshmen or Hi-Lo's jazzy vocal arrangements, but definite influences from that era in harmony and overall sound. With Van Dyke all but adopting a 1930's persona and loving that era in many ways, who else would have brought that to the table of Brian Wilson in 1966?

Very true, though it's certainly an element of common ground, even if VDP helped to exaggerate it.  You can't forget things like "Surfin' Down the Swanee River."  I think Brian knew his songwriting history and sought to equal the quality of his heroes, while VDP seems more interested in literally exploring the past and adapting or commenting directly on his influences.

[onkster]

What about the old cowboy song "Cool Water"? That musta had some influence, huh?

[onkster]

And obviously "Peace in the Valley" gets a nod.

[SMiLE Brian]

What about the old cowboy song "Cool Water"? That musta had some influence, huh?

Could Brian have heard the version from the epic Marty Robbins "Gunfighter Ballads and Trail Songs" album?

[desmondo]

Isn't the whole point of that youtube Desmondo posted that this supposedly fits into anything? Like, it's supposedly one piece but, played with the right sense of humour it's also classical pieces, the sounds doorbells make, film scores, ridiculous dixieland jazz, Youu are My Sunshine, etc.

Possibly but the guy does make specific reference to the opening four notes of HDIA - on your second point for me that's Smile - there is nothing, no style, no sound effect, arrangement, instrument that was out of bounds for Brian and VDP as they got to grips with Smile

[desmondo]

but its interesting to me that these 'old standards references' keep cropping up in Smile - Gee, Rhapsody In Blue (compositional strategy), HDIA, OMP/YAMS, IWBA

I think this is very perceptive and accurate. I think it shows how much of an influence Van Dyke Parks had on Brian Wilson as a songwriter. There are numerous interviews where those around them saw the two musicians influencing and inspiring each other. One important aspect of Smile that gets underplayed and sometimes ignored (even by VDP himself) was Van Dyke's influence on the music and the writing and arranging of the music. He is is modest, he gives all the credit he can give to Brian, but the results are in the songs.

Consider this: Was that particular 'old standards' influence heard all that much in Brian Wilson's music before he teamed up with Van Dyke? That is apart from Rhapsody, and I'm also not talking about Four Freshmen or Hi-Lo's jazzy vocal arrangements, but definite influences from that era in harmony and overall sound. With Van Dyke all but adopting a 1930's persona and loving that era in many ways, who else would have brought that to the table of Brian Wilson in 1966?

Very true, though it's certainly an element of common ground, even if VDP helped to exaggerate it.  You can't forget things like "Surfin' Down the Swanee River."  I think Brian knew his songwriting history end sought to equal the quality of his heroes, while VDP seems more interested in literally exploring the past and adapting or commenting directly on his influences.

Yes both are very good interpretations IMHO

[Smilin Ed H]

Well, there's the Dick Reynolds stuff - clearly influenced by arrangements for songs which, for better or worse, could be termed American songbook standards. I'm sure I've read interviews where Brian extolls the virtues of Stephen Foster. I also have a feeling I've seen references ro his love of the incidental music from Laurel Hardy shorts.

[PongHit]

There is a great book called "Inside the Music of Brian Wilson" by Philip Lambert, who is a Professor of Music in New York

FWIW, I read this book but at first I thought I wouldn't finish it because I'm not a musician, & much of it seemed tedious & confusing to me.  But I found that there's enough content that I can comprehend, & found interesting enough, that I've decided to finish it.  I learned a lot of the context in which BW did his work; it illustrates, in great detail, the influences from other artists, & the 'borrowings'/re-workings from BW's own body of work.  As the title suggests, this book is not about BW's personal life — it's about the music, not the man.

[ghost]

Smile would never have been conceptually conceived had Brian been 'dry' - in fact he was full of conserved energy from not ejaculating. Brian mentioned this around the time - that when you cum you lose creative energy, genius, seed, potential, etc. Just saving it up for a while shows you this - cool it for a while and see how your mind improves. Smile the initial urge of conception was from channeling sexual energy into the brain for creative purposes rather than ordinary sexual. Smile did not become what it set out to be because Brian lost his seed either once [losing the entire synthesis of the idea as it resided in his brain] or through once and continual losses. With whoever, Marilyn or Diane or Barbara. Any of the groovy chicks Brian was probably checking out when he saw them. Anyway, that's the secret. That's why Smiley got crude and kind of perverted at times. And Wild Honey continued it. Charles Manson sex guru came on the scene shortly after. They were never as innocent as Smile again. Brian Wilson in the 1970s seems to have had a masturbation addiction. Sobering facts about our beloved guru of sound.

[Amazing Larry]

I should stop wanking, then.

[FatherOfTheMan Sr101]

I should stop wanking, then.

[ghost]

Don't believe me, ask Plato. He'll back me up.

[SMiLE Brian]

Remember everybody, Carnie Wilson is SMiLE.

[desmondo]

The same section of the book points out musical similarities between H&V and ILTSDD

H&V - first verse

IBH - first verse of second section (Hawaii...lay beyond the sea)

Maybe that's what the All Day track on the box set will turn out to be

[The Shift]

What about the old cowboy song "Cool Water"? That musta had some influence, huh?

There used to be a site online where a chap had amassed a long list of vintage tracks that had somehow influenced or been incorporated in SMiLE/Smiley era songs.

Gee by The Crows
Get a Job
Cool Cool Water
El Paso by Marty Robbins
The Old Master Painter by Dick Haymes or Peggy Lee
You Are My Sunshine by Jimmie Davis
I Wanna Be Around by Tony Bennett or Frank Sinatra
Rhapsody In Blue (Gershwin)
(Variations on) How Dry I Am by Allan Sherman
"Gunfighter Ballads and Trail Songs" album by Marty Robbins
Wood Woodpecker Theme

Feel free to add…  I had more listed on another computer somewhere…
Maybe a good time to draw up a list, burn a CD and tune in.

[desmondo]

What about the old cowboy song "Cool Water"? That musta had some influence, huh?

There used to be a site online where a chap had amassed a long list of vintage tracks that had somehow influenced or been incorporated in SMiLE/Smiley era songs.

Gee by The Crows
Get a Job
Cool Cool Water
El Paso by Marty Robbins
The Old Master Painter by Dick Haymes or Peggy Lee
You Are My Sunshine by Jimmie Davis
I Wanna Be Around by Tony Bennett or Frank Sinatra
Rhapsody In Blue (Gershwin)
(Variations on) How Dry I Am by Allan Sherman
"Gunfighter Ballads and Trail Songs" album by Marty Robbins
Wood Woodpecker Theme

Feel free to add…  I had more listed on another computer somewhere…
Maybe a good time to draw up a list, burn a CD and tune in.

Twelfth Street Rag (in 66 Look)
Dance with Me Henry - Georgia Gibbs ( RWMH version of Wonderful)

[Bill Tobelman]

The "How Dry I Am" pattern could just as well be known as the "You Are My Sunshine" pattern. When Al Kooper heard "H&V" in May of 67 it was what he called the "You Are My Sunshine" version.

That being said the idea of "How Dry I Am" is an intriguing one especially when one considers the "I could really use a drop to drink" line from what's arguably the climax of BWPS.

Another interesting thing to consider is that the majority of "How Dry I Am" numbers are from the first movement of BWPS. This is also the movement which contains the most fire references (from 'fanned the flame of the dance,' 'steamed upon Hawaii,' 'the cook is chopping lumber,' 'fire mellow,''who ran the iron'). Steven Desper disclosed that "H&V" & "Fire" were mystically connected in Brian's mind. Also Philip Lambert connects the "Who Ran The Iron Horse" music to that of "Fire."

The general idea would be that being in a fire can really dry you out.