SMiLE Sessions box set!

[Shady]

My order is fine...

Has this been posted?



Engineer and Co-Producer Mark Linett, Co-Producer Alan Boyd, and Mastering Engineer Chris Bellman in the Bernie Grundman Mastering Studios during the Vinyl Mastering for “The SMiLE Sessions.” © David Goggin, 2011

True heroes

[jimmy1949]

With all the tie ins I'm surprised there isn't a video game tie in with this new SMiLE boxset.  Check out the lead:

BLASHPHEMY! THE SMiLE MASTER TAPES HAVE BEEN STOLEN!!!
Now it's up to you to restore them by helping our heroes vanquish the villains in Brother Records New Video Game "Virtually SMiLING" - Have endless hours of fun completing the following tasks

- Help Al rediscover his childhood by traveling to the Land Of Misfit Toys and find out whether Child really is Father Of The Man

- Go Digging For Worms In The Barnyard with Van Dyke Parks

- Go Crusin With Fireman Mike Love as he attempts to put out a fire at the hamburger stand

- Help Brian liberate the tapes from Reggie Dunbar by tossing Vega-Tables in his mouth.

AND MUCH MORE!

[Jay]

With all the tie ins I'm surprised there isn't a video game tie in with this new SMiLE boxset.  Check out the lead:

BLASHPHEMY! THE SMiLE MASTER TAPES HAVE BEEN STOLEN!!!
Now it's up to you to restore them by helping our heroes vanquish the villains in Brother Records New Video Game "Virtually SMiLING" - Have endless hours of fun completing the following tasks

- Help Al rediscover his childhood by traveling to the Land Of Misfit Toys and find out whether Child really is Father Of The Man

- Go Digging For Worms In The Barnyard with Van Dyke Parks

- Go Crusin With Fireman Mike Love as he attempts to put out a fire at the hamburger stand

- Help Brian liberate the tapes from Reggie Dunbar by tossing Vega-Tables in his mouth.

AND MUCH MORE!

I would give it a twist ending. In my version the screen would fade away into a 1981 scene of Brian at the piano. We find out that this has all been a dream of Brian's. The game would end with Brian sighing sadly, then proceeding to snort all three lines of coke on the piano.

[Chris Brown]

I believe he just avoided talking about it, especially when the "Surf's Up" album was being made.

Honestly, I'm more interested on why "Surf's Up" was his choice to play in 67' on WILD HONEY of all albums!?!?!

I mean I love it, and I can only imagine what "Let the wind" and "Surf's Up"'s baby will sound like!

There is at least one contemporary interview from sometime in '68 I believe where he discusses it (the one where he talks about the group almost breaking up), but that's about it as far as I know.  According to Mr. Desper, while "Our Prayer" and "Cabinessence" were being worked on for 20/20, Brian would leave the house when production started, so obviously the album conjured up some bad demons for him after only a few short years.

And to be clear, as far as I understand it, the '67 "Surf's Up" that was discovered wasn't intended to be on Wild Honey, it was merely done during that particular time period while they were making the album.  A revelation that Brian did intend it for the album would be huge, but I haven't seen anything to suggest that.

[metal flake paint]

what were Brian's thoughts on SMiLE during the 1970's and early 80's

There is a video somewhere from 1977 where Brian talks about Fire and how it might have burned the buildings down

Try this, at the 12:30 mark:

http://www.globalimageworks.com/clip-brian-wilson-interview-beach-boys-1874_023?id=45092&search_string=brian+wilson&submit_x=0&submit_y=0&search_type=all&startrow=0

[Jay]

Out of all the Beach Boys videos on that website, that Brian interview is the only one that has never worked for me. Over the course of a month or two I've tried it repeatedly, but it won't play.

[Ron]

Partly prompted by the high price of the box (in the UK) and the fact that it doesn't seem to be a limited edition, I have decided not to gorge but to savour.
I'll buy the 2CD set on release which I think will have more than enough to keep me busy for quite a while. Then maybe after Christmas, when hopefully the box can be had for a lot less I'll think about getting that. So for the rest of the year I have plenty to enjoy and plenty more to look forward to 

Me too.  I'm going to buy the 2cd set, because many I just can't in good conscience pay over $100 for a boxset, even if it's my favorite band.  I bought the Pet Sounds boxset, and the Good Vibrations box set (SAME DAY!) at the Flea market for 15 bucks each, lol.  I doubt I'll be that lucky, but I'm going to go cheap and buy somebody's used copy on ebay or something. 

[theCOD]

Let's all accept that the only reason we're getting this sequence is that Brian's management wants to stake out the position that BWPS _is_ the completed Smile

This claim really annoys me. If that really was the reason, why were there subtle changes in the order? Do you really think some spooky guys with sunglasses with total control over Brian ordered that sequence because they fear the sales of BWPS drop if it was not like it? Quit putting it down, will you? Saying things like "it is done that way just for this or that reason, not because it would be the right thing to do" is devaluating the great stuff we are about to get. You're unnecessarily putting Brian down by saying "it's all his management pulling strings".

Sure, SMiLE would have been another way had it been released at any time back then, read what Jon Stebbins wrote. But that just isn't important! It crossed my mind recently that the cantina version which I prefer to the single version is a contemporate of the strange Rock Me Henry Wonderful. Terrible, if that would had been on the 1967 album. So good Brian shelved that one!

I totally agree. That whole "let's face facts, pure and simple" kind of BS is annoying, especially when it comes to the SMiLE saga. A lot of people take everything Brian said and did during the SMiLE period as gospel, but all evidence suggests Brian didn't even know what he wanted, or he did know and eventually became overwhelmed by it. It was an ambitious idea to do an entire album in the style of GV, and as time went on the project became so heavy and complex it collapsed on itself.

SMiLE was finally sequenced into a cohesive album in 2003, and that's all anyone has to go by. I'm not presumptuous enough to question the validity of the work done by the original creative team behind the project in 2003. If they say it's SMiLE, then it is, whether I like it or not. There are things I would change and there are things I don't like, but it's SMiLE according to Brian Wilson, and for some reason I trust him more than anyone when it comes to his own work. To hear an official version of that sequence done by the Beach Boys and the Wrecking Crew, well, that will be a very, very cool trip.

[Ron]

The fact that it is -- song for song -- based on tracklisting created more than three decades after the original sessions.

In what world is that historically accurate?

There _is_ a contemporaneous and historically accurate tracklisting. It's the memo to Capitol. But it is not being used.

That 66 'tracklisting' has never been confirmed as THE tracklisting - back covers were never printed up like the fronts - recording was done after it was written so its unlikely

What makes the 2003 tracklisting inaccurate - it the only one we have had until now

Dirty secret: nobody knows.  It very well could be historically accurate.  Brian may have had the whole thing figured out all these years (I mean... we're talking A LOT of years to think about the greatest accomplishment you ever failed).

People will say "But, they hadn't recorded....." "But, he clearly wasn't going to ....." or whatever, but all that can be combated by just saying Brian never finished it, but he would have finished it just like BWPS.  He *DID* finish is just like BWPS, it was called BWPS.  

I don't think it's 100% historically accurate, but I do think BWPS is the definitive SMiLE.  Just my opinion.  The same guy that started the album finished it and called it SMiLE.  He ended up re-recording every single thing on it, but hey that's the album.  Others feel just as strongly in other opinions about it.  

[Ron]

The fact that it is -- song for song -- based on tracklisting created more than three decades after the original sessions.

In what world is that historically accurate?

There _is_ a contemporaneous and historically accurate tracklisting. It's the memo to Capitol. But it is not being used.

That 66 'tracklisting' has never been confirmed as THE tracklisting - back covers were never printed up like the fronts - recording was done after it was written so its unlikely

What makes the 2003 tracklisting inaccurate - it the only one we have had until now

"Good Vibrations" was completed in Sept. '66 and released in October of that year.  It was never worked on again (except for the Sept. '67 Wally Heider sessions, which were for "Lei'd in Hawaii"), so this new mix of GV mix is in no way historically accurate.  Is there any evidence Brian thought about redoing it this way for the '67 "SMiLE"?

He hadn't thought of it yet, but he would have before he put the album out.  He thought of it before he put the album out in 2004. 

No matter how we argue what he would or wouldn't have done, you can't get around that he finally did it in 2004. 

[Wirestone]

This claim really annoys me. If that really was the reason, why were there subtle changes in the order? Do you really think some spooky guys with sunglasses with total control over Brian ordered that sequence because they fear the sales of BWPS drop if it was not like it? Quit putting it down, will you? Saying things like "it is done that way just for this or that reason, not because it would be the right thing to do" is devaluating the great stuff we are about to get. You're unnecessarily putting Brian down by saying "it's all his management pulling strings".

Sure, SMiLE would have been another way had it been released at any time back then, read what Jon Stebbins wrote. But that just isn't important! It crossed my mind recently that the cantina version which I prefer to the single version is a contemporate of the strange Rock Me Henry Wonderful. Terrible, if that would had been on the 1967 album. So good Brian shelved that one!

For fun, I'm gonna break this one down. It's fun because it makes people insane!

If that really was the reason, why were there subtle changes in the order?

You said it yourself. Subtle changes. Anyone who compares the back covers of the CDs will see essentially the same running order. With the BWPS titles, too.

Saying things like "it is done that way just for this or that reason, not because it would be the right thing to do" is devaluating the great stuff we are about to get.

Only if its impossible to hold two contrasting ideas in your head simultaneously. Idea 1.) I would rather have CD one in a more objective order. Idea 2.) I'm thrilled the music is finally being put out. I think its possible to believe both of those things.

You're unnecessarily putting Brian down by saying "it's all his management pulling strings".

It's not putting him down. It's stating reality: modern-day Brian had very little to do with this project. He doesn't care about this old stuff the way we do. Someone else has to represent his interests in a more full-throttled way.

Sure, SMiLE would have been another way had it been released at any time back then, read what Jon Stebbins wrote. But that just isn't important!

It strikes me as very important indeed. This is the Smile sessions. Not the BWPS sessions. Big difference.

[bossaroo]

The fact that it is -- song for song -- based on tracklisting created more than three decades after the original sessions.

In what world is that historically accurate?

There _is_ a contemporaneous and historically accurate tracklisting. It's the memo to Capitol. But it is not being used.

That 66 'tracklisting' has never been confirmed as THE tracklisting - back covers were never printed up like the fronts - recording was done after it was written so its unlikely

What makes the 2003 tracklisting inaccurate - it the only one we have had until now

"Good Vibrations" was completed in Sept. '66 and released in October of that year.  It was never worked on again (except for the Sept. '67 Wally Heider sessions, which were for "Lei'd in Hawaii"), so this new mix of GV mix is in no way historically accurate.  Is there any evidence Brian thought about redoing it this way for the '67 "SMiLE"?

He hadn't thought of it yet, but he would have before he put the album out.  He thought of it before he put the album out in 2004.  

No matter how we argue what he would or wouldn't have done, you can't get around that he finally did it in 2004.  

true. and at some point many years ago, Brian came up with the idea of 3 movements. or so we've been told.

i have no problem with the 3 movements. i would flip-flop the 2nd and 3rd movements.
that way you can split the 2nd movement on vinyl, which is fine since you're dealing with 4 elements.

and that way the album closes with Surf's Up, which I believe was the original intention.

not sure where GV would have gone in this case, but i prefer it as the opening track. it's a glorious tune to start with, and you get it out of SMiLE's way.

and so it is in my personal mix. can't wait to have the rest of this boxset so i can finally build the perfect SMiLE.  

[Wirestone]

No matter how we argue what he would or wouldn't have done, you can't get around that he finally did it in 2004.  

He absolutely did, which is why I adore (and own multiple copes of) BWPS. It is, to my ears, an unalloyed triumph.

But that was a separate project, with a different perspective on the music, and with different goals. I fail to see what it has to do with the music cut in 66-67, or the order in which its presented in an archival release.

As a journalist, I take my history and its accuracy pretty seriously. I find the implied assumption behind the boxed set's sequencing disturbing. It is rewriting history, and in a way that devalues the accomplishments of both the 60s and mid-00s.

[Ron]

Contemporaneous, sure: historically accurate, no way.

It is certainly more so than the BWPS order.

If the hand written note is accurate, then why did Capitol put on the back of the sleeve that they didn't know the order?  That note is nothing.  It's just Brian or somebody rambling off some song titles or ideas, the album was months away from destruction, he fumbled with it for months after that.  

BTW, explain to me when Brian EVER started with the tracklisting done before he'd recorded the entire album?  If you asked him months before he finished, oh, "Lucky Old Sun" to perform live, would he have told you the proper tracklsting or sequence of the songs?  Hell no, they were still working on it!  

If you waited years later, and asked him what the tracklist was, don't you think he'd have it figured out by then?  That's why BWPS is much more accurate than a scribbled list while the album was still being recorded.  

[bossaroo]

actually, in my sequence (with GV as the opener rather than the closer):

GV plus movement 1 fills out side 1, ending with Great Shape/I Wanna Be Around/Friday Night. movement 2 and 3 (flip-flopped and minus GV) fill out side 2 (starting with Vega Tables), and it comes out to under 24 mins per side.

probably not exactly the way it would have been released in '67... but it works for me!



and then of course, there's my personal SMiLE mix which is considerably longer, includes Little Pad and Diamond Head, and ends with a Heroes Reprise, a la Sgt. Pepper.

aww yeaahhh... that's the stuff.....

[Wirestone]

I am also, I'm aware, taking this all far too seriously.

[Micha]

If that really was the reason, why were there subtle changes in the order?

You said it yourself. Subtle changes. Anyone who compares the back covers of the CDs will see essentially the same running order. With the BWPS titles, too.

I still think it sounds like a conspiracy theory that someone in the back ordered CD1 to be in that that sequence because they fear the sales of BWPS drop if it was another way.

1.) I would rather have CD one in a more objective order.

There is an objective order? Like alphabetically?

Sure, SMiLE would have been another way had it been released at any time back then, read what Jon Stebbins wrote. But that just isn't important!

It strikes me as very important indeed. This is the Smile sessions. Not the BWPS sessions. Big difference.

So you would accept any order but the BWPS order?

[Micha]

and that way the album closes with Surf's Up, which I believe was the original intention.

Yes, that's a belief.

[Wirestone]

There is an objective order? Like alphabetically?

A page or two ago, I suggested the tracks be presented in the order in which they were recorded.

Alphabetically would work too. The Magnetic Fields sequenced an album that way, and it worked out pretty well.

[bossaroo]

and that way the album closes with Surf's Up, which I believe was the original intention.

Yes, that's a belief.

pretty sure Brian himself held this belief back in the day. and said so. 

[Micha]

It is rewriting history

While I think that there's something to that... (though to me rather in the mixing of the individual tracks than the sequence, even if they are done in a beautiful way)

and in a way that devalues the accomplishments of both the 60s and mid-00s.

... I disagree with you here.

But I'm happy we agree that it is good it is coming out anyway and we both appreciate the artistic achievement that BWPS is.

[Micha]

There is an objective order? Like alphabetically?

A page or two ago, I suggested the tracks be presented in the order in which they were recorded.

So the verses to H&V, then CIFOTM, then Fire, then Rock With Me Henry, then the cantina section...?

(Just kidding )

[Micha]

and that way the album closes with Surf's Up, which I believe was the original intention.

Yes, that's a belief.

pretty sure Brian himself held this belief back in the day. and said so. 

When did he say so? I missed that. The only one I know who did claim that was Vosse, and he's not Brian.

[monicker]

There really was no way to do disc 1. It's an impossible album. Given that, i am really happy that we're getting something. A lot, actually. The fact that it's 5 CDs (and each one chock full at that) is still making my head spin with excitement.

 

[brother john]

Folks, I gotta say, all this debate on how Brian would've sequenced SMiLE in '66 or '67 is pointless, because there's a good chance that one of the major reasons he abandoned the work way back then is because he COULDN'T sequence it.  He had painted himself into a corner artistically, with no way out other than to shelve the whole thing and start over on a smaller scale, which he did with Smiley Smile (sure, there were other reasons for dropping the project, but I don't believe any one of them outweighed the others).  Even if he HAD completed it, there's an extremely good chance that he would've tinkered with the sequencing for goodness knows how long before finally settling on a running order.  Imagine the mindset he was in while trying to figure out the sequence of just one song, "Good Vibrations", and multiply that expotentially for an entire album (remember, as early as October he was beginning to second-guess himself and started redoing entire songs like "Wind Chimes", eventually doing "Wonderful" no less than FOUR different times), while adding in a shovel full of amphetimines, hash, acid, and whatever else he may have been indulging in, and you see my point.  Whatever sequence Brian may have envisioned (assuming he even did so) in December of '66 probably differed, if even slightly, from what he would've envisioned in January of '67, and that probably differed from what he would've envisioned in April or May of '67.   The best we can hope for in this day and age is something that sort of makes sense, while realizing there's a good half dozen or so sequences that make just as much sense, and we CAN'T say with certainty that any one of them would definitely be what Brian would've chosen himself back in the day.  SMiLE wasn't so much "unfinished" as it was "abandoned".  With Mozart's "Requeim", we can speculate on how the composer may have finished it, because he certainly would have if he hadn't died.  With SMiLE, it's a different story.

Hallelujah. Great post. I've been suggesting more or less the same for years, but whenever I've posted the idea it seems to come out all angry and bitter so no-one takes any notice. 

Very well put c-man.