Thank you so much for these "week in BB history" posts Ian. Please keep 'em coming if you can!

Now the real interesting thing is Carl (?) apparently saying that Mike Love's Celebration project "doesn't mean sh*t." Kinda doesn't jibe with the "go along to get along" Carl we think we know, though I guess I'd say this is still a late '70s quote, so it makes sense.

recording date 3 / 2 / 1974....... a jam ..... no vocals

Hey there Mark! Thank you for the reply, but I'm not sure what you mean here. I know that apparently "Brian's Jam" and "Clangin'" were recorded on that day, but was the basic track for "Ding Dang" recorded that day? Or is "Brian's Jam" the basic track for "Ding Dang"?

I'll have to dig around for the exact source on this, but engineer Earle Mankey said the first thing he ever recorded with Brian was Ding Dang. Apparently it was a Carl session, Brian happened to be there, and one way or another they ended up recording that too just to make the most of the studio time. If "Is This Really Love" was that song Carl was working on, the June 10 '74 date would make sense. IIRC Earle's first session with the Beach Boys in general was Don't Let the Sun Go Down On Me in January that year so it'd have to be '74 at the earliest. And I don't think it could be later than that, because Brian speaking at the start sounds like his younger voice.

Not sure on the exact date but there's an interview with Brian from early '74 where he talks about working with Roger McGuinn recently (also mentions him owning a secret laser beam), so Roger's recollection of it being the Landy era is probably mixed up. There's also the "Brian's Jam / Clangin'" session at Brother in March which I think is another variation with no vocals that exists in the vaults. Whatever the date, the Ding Dang on Love You is from before Rollin' Up to Heaven and the Caribou trip for sure. In the '76 live rehearsal they sing the "alley oop" parts from Rollin' that don't feature in Ding Dang.

Edit:

This is from David Leaf's book (in the context of stuff Brian did around '74) -

Brother Studio engineer and record-producer Earle Mankey remembers the first time he worked with Brian in the mid-70s. "At one session of Carl's, somebody said to Brian, 'Let's cut a track,' and he said, 'I have this great song, it's called "Ding, Dang."' It was a legendary track, and it was around, as I understand it, for a long time."

This is from an article in '77 -

Earle remembers the first time he did a session with Brian. "About a year and a half ago, before 15 Big Ones was released we did some basic tracks and Brian was very tense in the studio. We recorded a version of 'Ding Dang', and a few weeks later waxed a song called 'Back Home.'
"Things started clicking," Earle recalls. "Carl came into the booth when we were playing back the track and said, 'Earle! This is the way it used to be! This is it! You're seeing it! It's happening now!"

Wow, thank you so much wjcrerar!

However, I do need to ask about this interview where Brian talks about McGuinn. I feel like I have listened to or read like two or three Brian interview from 1974. Do you know where this one comes from?

So, I've noticed that at least for the first two decades of The Beach Boys career, we've pretty much nailed down the recording dates and sessions and whatnot for nearly every song that we know of. However, there is one song that it has seemed we've never been able to figure out the specifics on. And that song is "Ding Dang."

Some say it was recorded in 1973, but then I see something about a session for a June 10, 1974 session. And then the vocals, I'm not sure I can place them. Just by my feeling, they feel mid to late '70s-ish, but perhaps I'm wrong. Also, there is the issue of the very, very similar "Brian's Tune" (also known as "Rollin' Up to Heaven" which was recorded late in '74. So was this recorded after or before "Ding Dang"?

Plus I'm pretty sure you have the song's co-writer, Roger McGuinn saying that it was written together while Brian was trying to duck Gene Landy and his crew, which obviously wouldn't make sense if the song was already done and dusted by mid 1974.

I suspect this might just be something that is left vague, but I figured I'd ask anyways just to see if anybody knows anything.


Anybody got any concrete info on when this one was done.

I would go see a "Brian Wilson Orchestra" show, as long as they made clear that Brian wouldn't be there, and it would essentially be a "Tribute" type of show. But I'd want it to be the "original" band from 1999 to the early 2000's...which would include Scott Bennett, among the others. I know, I know....that's a very controversial thing to say or even think about.

I don't think Bennett's on-stage contribution was or is integral enough to *need* him to be on stage. The band had enough changes just in the first couple of years that I don't feel a need for a replication of that original lineup. I don't need Joe Thomas and Steve Dahl, and I think D'Amico is as good on drums as Hines or Sucherman were. I might actually prefer D'Amico. I think Lizik is a fine bassist but has never been super to my taste, so if, say, Al fronted an amalgamation of BW backing guys, I wouldn't mind him bringing along Ed Carter or something like that.

I think Al (in conjunction with maybe Blondie and/or Marks) could front a pared-down version of Brian's band that's more affordable, consisting of Al, Matt, Darian, Probyn, D'Amico, some bassist (Carter or Lizik, etc.), and maybe one more ancillary guy to play keys and/or guitar. All of Brian's guys are great, but I think a slimmed-down Al-fronted tour could work without an extra percussionist, guitarist, keyboardist, and woodwind player, especially if he did a bit more Al-centric and Brother-era material and a bit less of the Summer Days/Pet Sounds sort of stuff.

My comments on Scott are based on some YouTube videos, now no longer available unfortunately. Watching the interplay between Scott and Taylor during Marcella was part of the fun in watching it. He's also a damn good guitar player.

He's also a convicted rapist, so why are we even going down this road?

This is by no means a defense for Scott's actions. Consider the notion that video surveillance were as prevelant in the 60's-80's as it is now. Where would Mike Love and Dennis Wilson be now?

I'll just leave that there.

There's been some....iffy....stuff said about the guys from time to time, but I think this is too much RubberSoul. I personally think you are usually a great poster, but this is beyond the pale. I think at the very least we can give Mike and Denny the benefit of the doubt that they aren't rapists.

["Brian, Melinda and the Wilson family would like to thank all of you for your wonderful notes and good wishes. Brian looks forward to feeling better and seeing you again this Fall. Love & Mercy."]

I'm sure somebody has beaten me to it, but in case nobody has seen the Brian Wilson Facebook page just posted this:

"Brian, Melinda and the Wilson family would like to thank all of you for your wonderful notes and good wishes. Brian looks forward to feeling better and seeing you again this Fall. Love & Mercy."

So I think it's reasonable to think that maybe Brian's getting some much needed rest and maybe some kinda treatment and that he will be back doing what he does soon and back on the road in the fall.

I think I speak for everyone here that all we want is for Brian to be of sound mind and body, at least as much as a 77 year old man can be. If he doesn't feel up to touring and/or recording, so be it. And if he feels best still getting out there and touring and maybe recording some new stuff, that's wonderful too. He's given us so much over his life that just his presence in today's world is good enough for me.

You know, I'm thinking that for those who are very worried (count me among them) it could be that Brian just mentally knew he couldn't handle these upcoming dates. He just didn't have it in him. I remember when I was 19 I knew that I wasn't going to be able to handle another college semester away from home. I freaked, I guess I'd say I had a breakdown. And that was that. I dropped out (just for that semester) and later went back to school after getting my head back in shape. Or shoot, just while typing this, perhaps it was another 1964 plane type deal for Brian. He just realized he couldn't do it. The brain is a crazy thing and who knows what pushes us to certain points.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but who knows?

Hope he’s ok. He does not look healthy at all .

Really? I think Jeff looks pretty good. He's 63.
As for Bruce, he and Mike have looked and dressed like old men for a decade and a half. They look like they're living at Del Boca Vista with Jerry Seinfeld's parents. But they're in their late 70s, so...

This is my favorite post ever

YES YES YES!!

Also, Bruce gave me a pen. But he really wanted it back. Kinda messed up.

[Songs from Here & Back]

In some cases, he's literally dusting off old recordings (e.g. "Cool Head") and just sticking them on albums.

In the case of "Cool Head" I will say it's one case of Mike getting it right. He got a good recording of it, which is probably his best "solo" song in like 2003, and released it on The Beach Boys' Songs from Here & Back in '06 and instead of screwing it up over a decade later, like he did with some of the other material from around that time, he left well enough alone.

[Unleash The Love]

It's interesting that Mike hasn't sought out a Terry Melcher-type collaborator to continue to write new material that much. Yes, there are a few actual originals (or newly polished-off songs) on the recent albums. But beyond the glut of cover versions and BB re-recordings, most of the "originals" on the albums have been songs written decades ago.

One would have thought that Mike's continual stated desire to "write songs from scratch" alone in a room with Brian would have sprung at least in part by a desire to write new music in general. Yet, we don't see him seeking out alternate avenues to write a ton of material with other writers (at least in terms of what's released). It tends to reinforce the feeling some fans have that Mike's "alone in a room" thing with Brian had more to do with taking issue with *others* writing with Brian and getting writing credits/royalties.

Agreed that it's a shame that now that he is finally putting out new albums that he either hasn't written new material to put on them, or at least taken older unreleased stuff and reworked it for this new one. Whatever we wanna say about Unleash The Love, at least he was finally getting some of his his own better material finally out there on his own album ("Cool Head", "Daybreak" in an arrangement more like the First Love version, "Too Cruel" and "I Don't Wanna Know"). One would think that he has more unreleased (or at least super rare) material that is work another look, but perhaps not, and that's why we end up with one "new" original that is around 40 years old ("California Beach") and a bunch of covers and re-records (and even some re-recorded covers apparently).

Maybe it got lost or nobody cares, but doesn't anybody else kinda find it lame that Mike is covering a song (and probably band) that he has never heard/heard of? Maybe I'm being too hard on him, but I don't know.

And yes, it's the same feeling I had about Brian working with Lana Del Rey (like....why? Whats the point?)

The Ramones are a massive band. They're essentially a brand. They started 45 years ago, when Mike was 33. They covered The Beach Boys, worked with Phil Spector. They're one of the most recognizable American bands. There's no possible way Mike hasn't heard of them nor heard I Wanna Be Sedated or Blitzkrieg Bop. They're also a band that borrowed enough elements of early rock and roll that Mike very well could be into them, or at least certain songs.

It's not like Mike is covering The Descendents. The Ramones are a very well known band.

With that out of the way, there's really no reason for this cover to exist, but it's fine.

Hey startBBtoday, I totally understand what you are saying. I agree that pretty much everybody at least probably in American and Britain probably know at least one, two or even three Ramones songs. They are a brand. You can probably buy their tee-shirt at Wal Mart or Target. But still, these are The Beach Boys we are talking about. And I can definitely imagine a world where both Brian Wilson and Mike Love have no fucking clue who the Ramones are, or maybe at best have only heard of them, but couldn't name a song. Perhaps I'm selling them short though, and it's more than possible you're right.

I still stand by the fact though that Mike probably had never heard of "Rockaway Beach" until somebody recently played it for him though.

Maybe it got lost or nobody cares, but doesn't anybody else kinda find it lame that Mike is covering a song (and probably band) that he has never heard/heard of? Maybe I'm being too hard on him, but I don't know.

And yes, it's the same feeling I had about Brian working with Lana Del Rey (like....why? Whats the point?)

[(which I definitely took as a compliment)]

Some guy named Jorah posted this on that other board. A boardie over there thought it was by HeyJude under a pseudonym (which I definitely took as a compliment). But anyways, I've been permission to repost by Mr. Mormont. So I figured I'd throw his thoughts in here if anybody cares...

I don't post on the "Endless Harmony" board and never have. I read it sometimes. But I don't post on that or any other BB board under pseudonyms or otherwise. I've been on the BB interwebs for coming up on 25 years and haven't thus far been dragged into *that* particular accusation.

I've reached out to someone via e-mail on the other board and asked them to let that poster on that board and any other needed parties over there know that whoever that is on the EH board, it isn't me. If anyone here could also help me let folks on that board know, that would be much appreciated.

Trust me, nobody wants to drag me into this sort of BS. Bad idea.

Golly HJ, I think you took that a bit too seriously. Obviously it was myself posing as Jorah on that board and I outed myself as that poster on that board.

I was simply paying you a compliment by saying that somebody thought that I was you. I suppose from now on I will no longer try to good naturedly engage you. My apologies, seriously. Did not want to drag anybody into anything. 

I don't know if this has been mentioned or not, but I think not releasing the original version of Oh Darlin' with Brian singing was a mistake. I was just listening to this last night(a few times in a row, actually), and it's much better than I remembered. I think it's much, much better than the slower and, frankly, boring version. The Brian version is a little more uptempo, and it shows that at least in the studio, Brian was capable of delivering a very good vocal. It would have also given him much more of a presence on a studio album by the group when they sorely needed it.

The version of "Oh, Darlin'" with Brian singing uses the same backing track as the eventual released version. Barring slight tape speed variations on the circulating versions, the backing tracks are the same (obviously the final released version had more overdubs).

I actually like the song, the composition itself, and I particularly have always liked the dissonant backing vocals during the bridge.

But no version of the song was ever going to change the band's fortunes in any way. Again, I like the track, but its production is cheesy and wonky, the arrangement is pretty limp and cheesy, the lyrics aren't that great (either version). That circulating Brian scratch vocal, while certainly interesting to fans and scholars (there aren't a ton of KTSA-era Brian leads), is pretty choppy and a bit croaky. Definitely sounds like a guide/scratch vocal.

But any version of the song was never going to be a hit or even released as a single. I think a vastly rejiggered version of the song, with more organic, sparse production, possibly some rewritten lyrics, could have been quite good.

I'd love to see an expanded KTSA with the Brian lead and all sorts of other tracks from the era. But I wouldn't say not releasing a creaky Brian guide vocal was in any way a career misstep.

I agree with Jay that not releasing "Oh Darlin'" with Brian on lead was a misstep while I also agree with HeyJude that it wasn't a truly fatal misstep as by that point, nobody really cared by then anyways.

But anyways as for all Brian's Beach Boys material, especially from Today! on, I don't think you could find a more forgettable song (or at least a more forgettable recording). Carl's vocal redefines the word workmanlike and is also a bit sleepy, the backing track absolutely plods and Bruce's "God only knows" during the tag is just the kinda self referential embarrassment that makes it tough to be a Beach Boys fan sometimes.

It's crazy because after all this time dismissing the song as a useless piece of nothing, when I heard the version with Brian on lead, the song suddenly became alive. Not a great, classic song by any stretch, but a decent album track. I assume the Carl vocal was chosen because of commercial considerations, though perhaps Brian wrote it for him?

As far as the production, it's just Bruce Johnston through and through. Cardboard, boring, no balls but at the same time not light enough to be pleasantly light (if one gets my idea, I know it's hard to communicate on this kinda thing via text). However, as bad as the production is, I think blame has to go to the songwriters (Brian and Mike) for not giving enough of a crap to have this promising tune turned into a big stinky pile by release.

[(which I definitely took as a compliment)]

Some guy named Jorah posted this on that other board. A boardie over there thought it was by HeyJude under a pseudonym (which I definitely took as a compliment). But anyways, I've been permission to repost by Mr. Mormont. So I figured I'd throw his thoughts in here if anybody cares...

Wow. Michael sounds pretty wobbly on this one. I applaud him for trying to "rock" a bit more but I have to say that in the studio, perhaps Mike shouldn't be doing leads like this kind anymore. It's kinda like Brian on the verses of 2017's "Run, James, Run" in that these quicker rockers are just too wordy and energetic to get truly great performances from these guys anymore. Just as Brian voice is better suited to ballad type material these days ("Please Let Me Wonder" live, "Summer's Gone", "Whatever Happened"), Mike is now at his best when he's doing a "Cool Head, Warm Heart", "Daybreak Over the Ocean" or "Kokomo" type deal. It's Alan Jardine who is best doing the uptempo leads these days. Or the least having Alan double Mike like he did on "Beaches In Mind". And all this is yet another reason that Brian, Mike and Al should at least be recording together. But hey, that's their choice(s).

Lastly, it kinda makes me feel a wee bit uncomfortable when they are doing work with artists/cover artists that they have no knowledge of. I myself would be incredibly surprised if Mike Love knows a single Ramones song and/or has ever heard of them, outside of seeing people where their tee-shirt. Same for Brian. Though I could see both actually kinda liking music like "I Wanna Be Your Boyfriend" and maybe even something like "Judy is a Punk" I just don't think Mr. Lifestyles-of-the-Rich-and-Famous, jet-setting, PMRC supporting Mike Love has ever given more than possibly a few thoughts of the Ramones. Just as I can't imagine Brian truly being able to name a pop star who came to prominence after, say, Phil Collins or Lionel Richie. For whatever reason, the guys don't seem connected to contemporary music after around the mid-'80s. Honestly, as far as influences, you don't hear much past the late '60s for Brian, while with Mike you usually have your doo-wop and early rock influences, though I suppose Buffett's "trop-rock" may have been an influence for later work.

But then sometimes I get surprised, like when you have Brian talking up Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon, which I never thought he would like, or Mike's Bruno Mars love (though I get the feeling Mike saw him on TV and just kinda put a wish out there to work with him, I never got the feeling that Mars was ever approached by the Love camp, nor would he likely accept. For whatever reason, probably the best Mike could do is these days is Hanson, who ain't so current). Al and Bruce eem to be a bit more plugged in (in their own respective ways) with Al occasionally singing the praises of relatively newer groups like the Fleet Foxes and Bruce (ugh) talking about modern day country (which let's be honest, mostly is a massive corruption of the great country music that was made during the 20th century).

Lastly, sorry for going way off track there. But the idea of any of The Beach Boys covering a punk tune kinda made me snicker and I had to post. My b.

[The Beach Boys]

I'm not a Mike hater, but I'm not going to pretend I listen to his solo stuff. If it's not going to be good anyway, then I'd prefer he at least make his covers his own. And a SIP-style Rockaway Beach certainly would at least be funnier than what I'm hearing in the 38-second sample, which just doesn't really need to exist, as is.

Certain songs on Summer in Paradise (Still Surfin', Lahaina Aloha, title track) are guilty pleasures of mine because a. they're catchy and b. because of the kitschy production. Those songs wouldn't really be interesting at all without the datedness of the electronic drums and 80s/90s guitar tone.

Might be an unpopular opinion, but that album cover certainly doesn't fit what I'm hearing from the 30-second sample of Rockaway Beach.

You know startBB, you actually kinda nailed it there. A lot of us have complained over the years about the '79 version of "Here Comes the Night", The Beach Boys '85 and Summer In Paradise, along with some giving Brian Wilson '88 some grief as well (though I personally love it).

It seems like so many of us wanted a return to a more "natural" recording, and with that we'd get more "classic" tunes. But really, and maybe it's just me, but I'd take the craziness of "Crack at Your Love" and it's recording over something like the more "natural" sounds of most of Gettin' In Over My Head just like I'd take the insanity of Summer In Paradise or that crazy '80s bombast of "Getcha Back" over Mike's new "Rockaway Beach" cover or "Make Love Not War" or whatever crap that is.

Now for material like That Lucky Old Sun, That's Why God Made The Radio, No Pier Pressure (excepting "Runaway Dancer"....yeesh) and yes, even Mike's "Cool Head, Warm Heart" and his solo version of "Daybreak Over the Ocean", these are (in my opinion) well written and well-recorded songs, at least instrumentally (as I know there are many about the vocal processing on both guys solo records) and therefore we are lucky that he weren't recorded in a super dated or tacky style.

[SMiLE]

Let's not forget that if SMiLE had come out, the back cover wouldn't have featured Brian either.

You know the photo...



I wonder whether that was just the Capitol art people being their usual lazy self or whether Brian chose that.

I think Mike just wanted to go back to the Mike & Bruce band. He more than met his obligation to the reunion band, originally set for 50 concerts, and later increased to what, 75. I can’t understand all of the complaints and theories over this. He more than met his obligations, and then he was done, he wanted out. He’s not a villain in this matter.

Jeff, I don't think anybody is a "villain" in this...

But...if Mike wanted "out" then perhaps he should have quit The Beach Boys and went solo. Instead what he did was quit The Beach Boys to then go right back out again days later AS The Beach Boys, despite Brian and Al wanting to continue. I don't think any of the guys should be made to do anything they don't want to, but to say Mike was being fair in the this is nonsense. He really had nothing to lose by leaving. So this isn't the same as a random person quitting a random band. He knew he had the name in his back pocket and therefore could afford to "want out."

So maybe I'm wrong, but I'm willing to say this is not a Beach Boys recording at all, but more likely an Adrian Baker recording with additional vocals from one Michael Love.

So it's very unlikely that I will purchase this...

But is this is an official sanctioned release from The Beach Boys and Capitol?

Not releasing the Curt Boettcher mix of Shortenin' Bread as a single

What about this? I know nothing of it.

What you see as sh*t I see as art. What you think is BW's descend into madness following the death of Murry is to me a extremely fascinating glimpse into the unknown of the human psyche. Pretty much like Love You, it is "Art Brut". DW was also hitting his peak as an artist.

I love this period, that I why I wanted to share this here, because I find artistic value in it even if im' alone in this. If someone like John Cale would have released something as weird as "Shortenin' Bread" back then, it would have become an art rock classic. To each his own, I suppose...cheers!

Who is calling anything sh*t? I surely don't find most of the material mentioned to be sh*t.

However, I do have a problem with the phrase "BW's descend [sic] into madness." Saying he descended into madness after his father died is offensive to me. He didn't "go mad" - he had undiagnosed mental illness that was not taken care of and therefore  it affected his work, or in the case of '73 through '75, the lack of it. However, even in the era we are talking about, where is this super weird material you are talking about? "It's OK"? "California Feelin'"? "Good Timin'"? The 1975 version of "In The Back Of My Mind"? All of those sound like the work of a thirty something artist. Even "Shortenin' Bread" isn't some nutty thing. It's surely an interesting and idiosyncratic choice, but not the efforts of a mad person.

Mark and Alan confirmed that they DON'T have "Earthquake Time", "Our Life, Our Love, Our Land", "Don't Let Me Go", "You're Riding High on the Music", and "Just an Imitation" in the vaults. They are either missing, destroyed, or they weren't ever recorded in the first place. Stephen Kalinich pretty much confirmed "You're Riding High on the Music" wasn't ever recorded. The only things Mark and Alan have in the vaults include "River Song" (the multi-tracks are missing though), "The Battle Hymn of the Republic", "Good Timin'", "Honeycomb", "Lucy Jones", "California Feelin'", "Barnyard Blues", and "Brian's Tune". "Clangin'" is from 1976 BTW, there's of course "Ding Dang" which was done a couple times in 1973 and 1974, as well as "Clang", which was rehearsed in 1976 (same session where Brian performed "I'm Bugged at My Ol' Man"), featuring the "mow mama yama holy hallelujah" lyrics. "Clang" is in the vaults, having been recently found by Mark and Alan a couple years ago.

I definitely believe you about all this, but where/when did Mark and Alan confirm that "Just an Imitation" and others aren't in the vault?

Also, the Kalinich thing about "You're Riding High on the Music" makes a lot of sense, but when was this from? I haven't heard about this either.

Not wanting another shitstorm, I'll just say this to add my 2 cents to what's been said already. Regarding the "reunion" and TWGMTR reunion album and all the 50th anniversary reunion activities:

Mike chose to walk away from it when three of his bandmates who were playing in the Wilson's music room in Hawthorne expressed a desire to continue in various capacities ranging from recording new original music to additional live performances as the C50 unit. In various interviews and in his own book, Mike expressed something less than enthusiasm and positivity regarding the C50 tour and the creating of the TWGMTR album, not to mention the performance of said TWGMTR album and the performance of said C50 tour, which Mike in his book claimed was losing money (among other claims).

So when Mike did get back together with Brian and his bandmates, it didn't come out positive according to Mike, and he wasn't happy because among other things it didn't go the way he wanted it to go...from the writing process, to the album itself, to the live shows, and even the setlist and execution of those shows.

Mike wasn't happy about the C50 experience, in fact he seemed pretty bitter about it.

Yet the majority of fans thought C50 overall and the year 2012 up to September was easily one of the latter-year highlights of this band's almost 60-year history. Easily the ultimate band highlight of the years since Carl's passing.

And Mike wasn't happy about it.

That pretty much sums it up.

This is true as well. And it's really the only reason I have somewhat negative feelings toward Mike. But for me, it's not even that he broke up the band, but that he makes up excuse after excuse for why he isn't (something in his book about not being able to re-write the score after it's been written or something like that - what a bunch of sh*t), instead of being honest.

Some anti Mike Love are so horrible here... so sad...

Yes, agreed it is a bit much. Don't get the level of anger directed toward him. 

Mike is a bit of a douche and I leave it at that.   
 

You nailed it. I think a lot of this stuff is ridiculous.

But he is a major douche and proves it over and over.