Appreciate all of the analysis and background info supplied here, but the answer to the question of what Brian contributed to "Dierdre" has only one real answer:

"Not enough." 

I'll agree with you on that! 

Hey there, so most longtime Beach Boys fans probably know Bruce's story about "Deirdre." By that I mean that apparently he went to Brian with this tune hoping to turn it into a co-write but was instead disappointed when all Brian offered was lyrics like "my friend Bob, he has a job" or something like that. Now, I guess maybe I took that at face value for a bit, but now I wonder...

First off, Brian does indeed get a credit as co-writer. Bruce says Brian wrote five percent or something like that. Personally (and of course this is without evidence), I wouldn't be surprised if it was the "Good things turn bad but it's over now..." part that Brian possibly wrote the melody and/or lyrics for. My reasoning for that, is that it's his prominent part on the tune.

And lastly, while I think that Bruce didn't get exactly what he wanted for Brian for this song, it must have been substantial enough to warrant a credit, right? Or did he just want a Brian Wilson co-write in his back pocket, even if Brian barely participated? My gut tells me Brian was more involved than we may think, but possibly I'm wrong. Regardless, it's not really a great song either way. I used to like it, but I kinda got the feeling of eating too much candy when I listen to it now. Ya know, the feeling that it was just too much sweetness, and now I got a bellyache and a toothache!

Discuss friends...!

Started 2 threads by mistake! Please delete!!

The unfortunate takeaway I have from this is that Mike Love wants people to be afraid of him. There are plenty of parallels to a certain person in today's world of politics too, and I think that some powerful people (who like to make less powerful people fear them) admire that trait in other powerful people too. 

Interesting thoughts Century.

EDIT: Deleted stupid rest of post.

In the early 80's I produced some sessions at Tom Murphy's TRACK RECORD on Melrose Ave. I remember seeing a box of 2" tape, with Dennis Wilson/Christine McVie written on its spine, on the shelf in the control room. I asked Tom about it. He told me that Dennis and Christine had been recording there.

Well then, that's pretty awesome! Thank you very much for that info SBonilla!

I wonder what's the chances are that we ever hear it. I suppose really it might be up to Christine, and if she wanted it released, I'm sure she could work something out with Denny's estate.

[Tornado]

It would be interesting to know what Dennis and Gregg's arrangement was. It may be that Gregg was part of Dennis's deal and that Gregg would have received a producer credit for any recordings delivered to the label, whether he had a direct hand in the production , or not.
It seems that Dennis took care of Gregg over the years, with regard to co-writing and co-production credits. It might have been that their creative relationship was based on a gentleman's agreement.

I can't identify Jakobson's creative stamp on any of the songs where he is credited as a co-writer or co-producer.

Well, it's reportedly Gregg's voice heard saying "Rollin'" at the start of "Time For Bed". And, per David Leaf's article in Issue 3 of his Pet Sounds fanzine, Gregg was present in a co-producer capacity for the "He's A Bum" vocal session. Looking at the timeline on Bellagio (compiled from my collection of AFM contracts), it's clear that with one exception (that being "I Love You"), all of the Jakobson sessions occurred prior to the start of the Muñoz sessions - and Gregg has stated that he pretty much stopped working with Dennis at a certain point. From this, we can conclude that Dennis invited Carli to co-produce his next album with him AFTER the end of the Jakobson era, and if he did so without mentioning that he also intended to use the stuff he and Gregg had co-produced, then that would explain why Carli would be unaware of Gregg's status as Dennis' co-producer. It's also highly possible that Dennis intended his co-productions with Gregg (however unfinished they may have been at the time) for his SECOND solo album, and intended his collaborations with Carli to be for his THIRD solo album (by this time, he was telling people that he had actually started his third).

Speaking of a "third" Denny solo album, whatever happened to the possible release of an album called Tornado that Jim Guercio was talking about? It was supposed to be a follow up to the reissue of Pacific Ocean Blue and was even mentioned in Mark Dillon's 2012 Beach Boys book (can't remember the name) but nothing has ever been said about it since if I'm correct. While many in the Beach Boys fan community are clamoring for a release of early '70s Denny material, I personally think something that grabbed the rest of the good stuff from 1975 thru 1978, along with whatever is useable from 1979 thru 1982 (maybe "Labor Day" and also some of those supposed collaborations with Christine McVie*).



*Do we actually have any proof Denny and Christine ever did any real serious recording together? I can't imagine it, but as a major fan of both artists it would be amazing to hear.

[California Feeling 2]

I don't even think this thing is available unfortunately.

Available here:

http://www.foothillrecords.com/msmusic.html

I see some of the other Kalinich stuff is available there, but I don't see California Feeling 2 on there.

I don't even think this thing is available unfortunately.

[Bambu]

Ouch. I'm pretty sure Munoz is credited accurately on the Bambu. Whatever the issue is, he seems to have some major issue with Gregg Jakobson.

I was sent a promo CD with "You're Welcome" on it circa 2002 (if memory serves) from the Carl Wilson Foundation after having attended one of their events; I assumed it was pretty rare, and I had Brian sign it at a GIOMH autograph signing, along with a DVD-Audio version of Pet Sounds.

I know this is way off topic, but what is this CD? I've never even heard of it. Is it just one track? Is it on Discogs or do you have a scan? I don't want to buy a copy or anything, I just think it's incredibly freaking random!

Gosh....I hope Dave isn't sick.

I was actually disappointed a live version wasn’t in the set until I realized that was in there 1069 sets.

I don't think any of the guys were touring in 1069.....


....


....I'll get my hat.

[Looking Back with Love]

Okay, c-man (Craig) I've got some questions for you.

First off, with "Boys and Girls" did either the 1979 version or the 1980 version get any kind of usable vocal? The 1979 version was produced by Bruce and the 1980 version was Brian right?

The WAVES Mobile stuff, was it recorded for a Mike Love solo album or was it kind of a Mike and Brian demoing for The Beach Boys type thing? As it says on your list, they recorded "Be My Baby" and through some permutations it ended up on Looking Back with Love if I recall (though without any credit for B-ri). And then of course "Why Don't They Let Us Fall In Love" came out on Made In California. But of course that doesn't mean it was originally intended for The Beach Boys.

And lastly, is "Why Don't You Tell Me Why" the same "song" as the thing Brian was playing during the infamous early '80s "sessions" with Dennis?

[Brian Wilson]

"Night Blooming Jasmine" is actually from early '79.

The one on the reissued Brian Wilson album?

[Going Private]

I think what the first poster referred to as Going Private is what he assumes to be Bruce's [apparently never-to-be] follow up to Going Public. I know of the two songs he's talking about, but I'm unsure what exactly those songs were for, whether they be for a proposed solo album or as demos (I'm pretty sure the Captain & Tennille recorded both).

As far as Bruce and songwriting go, he's actually kind of an odd duck. I think maybe one of these days I'd like to start a thread on Bruce the songwriter. Probably won't be of interest to many, but so be it.

Just a hunch but since so few people has heard Friends at the time it’d be easier to pass that stuff off as new material. Purely a guess

You might be on to something!  Lots of people would probably have still remembered "Don't Worry Baby", for instance.

That definitely makes a bit of sense.

[Friends]

This info may have faded with the years, but was there any reason why it was Friends material that the guys worked on instead of, as I said, things like "Don't Worry Baby" and whatnot? Honestly, a lot of the best Beach Boys material wouldn't need a reworking to be covered anyways, but I'm sure you guys (and gals) get what I'm saying here. Was it just that the Friends material was close to Brian's heart with what he perceived to be a lack of attention to it? Cuz it's hard to imagne A&M (or any other company) in 1971 saying, "hey Bri, you wanna work on those songs from that album from the three years ago that didn't sell that well in the first place?"

[Friends]

Great job Setlab!

Speaking of the Passing By demo. Did Brian record a whole new track for the demo or did he just overdub his vocals on the original and pitch shift it?

Also, is thisdemo related to the sessions in which Brian together with Stanley Shapiro and Tandyn Almer re-recorded several of the Friends songs (incl. Wake the World, Friends and Be Still)?

Yes.

Do we know what was really the mission of this Wilson/Shapiro/Almer venture? Did they want to get signed as a trio? Did they just wanna shop these songs to get cover versions? Also, of all the songs to "re-write" I wouldn't think it would be Friends tunes, but rather something like "Don't Worry Baby" (though I'm pretty sure Bruce Johnston did such a thing for his California Music band with shall we say....questionable results).

[Wake The World]

Quick thoughts (and questions) about the "I'm In Great Shape" piece at the end of the Wake The World set...

It sounds like it was mixed by King Tubby. Crazy reverb. Is this actually how it was recorded, like how this was supposed to sound or is this cuz of the condition of the acetate?

Also, where would this fit? It almost sounds as though it could be a link from what we know as "I'm In Great Shape" to "Workshop" in my opinion?

So where's Reynaldo? Did the Mike stuff chase him off?

Game changer!

Nah. Just kidding. This kinda thing doesn't particularly interest me, but once again what a gift for those who want it. Alan Boyd and Mark Linett and others involved are wonderful, wonderful people for making this happen.

Is Reynaldo banned or does he just not wanna talk about how "Rocky's" mind changed so drastically on Doctor Love? And how apparently that "tape" or whatever he had that would blow that whole songwriting case out of the water just ceased to exist. Sure is odd.

And now it is even more than a 180 degree flip (if that's scientifically possible...) to where Rocky is spouting hype and ballyhoo and praise for Mike Love as all but the savior and messiah of the Beach Boys, the "glue" that held it all together amidst the shortcomings of the Wilson brothers and whatnot...and this is the same Rocky talking about the same Mike Love who he had little or no praise or very little in the way of positive things to say about him a few years ago in public posts.

So, what gives? What flipped Rocky? What changed? The publishers wanting to go another direction explains some of the current contents and focus of the book, but what could possibly have happened in the past 2-3 years to flip Rocky's opinions of Mike Love so drastically and obviously?

The proof of the flip is this is the same Rocky writing about the same people and topics on the record in 2015-16 versus this current book, for those interested in proof.

This is it right here.

Thank you Craig.

So, Reynoldo (or Ron), which you prefer....that is the reason I likely will never check this book out. The guy who was posting those things back in 2016 would not be saying the stuff he's saying in the book as relating to Mike Love. I personally don't despise Mike Love like some on here, but I'm also for some consistency. Or at least, if there's a change of opinion on a topic or person, a mention of why! And in this case, it seems as though this book indicates there has been a 180 on Mike in Rocky's opinion. However - and this is another reason why I'm sketchy on this book - dollars to donuts I'd bet you that if somebody sat down with Rocky and talked about Mike Love it wouldn't sound a word like what's in this book. And I also bet it'd likely sound a heck of a lot more like the craziness he posted on this board a few years a go.

So, I welcome Ron to "correct" me on this, but this whole thing smells. And those in this community who know me know I'm not one to latch onto random theories in Beach Boys fandom, even when they end up being correct (Craig and SMiLE Brian know what I mean). It just seems like something changed with Rocky and his book vis-à-vis Mike, and frankly, I think we are being sold a bill of goods.

Curious to hear it, being Charles Manson fan (I really like his singing voice & as musician-songwriter).

Eeek.

I haven’t read through the whole thread so I don’t know if anyone else has said it but man, Dennis’s vocal on “All I Want to Do” is far superior to Mike.  Should have put this version on the original album! https://youtu.be/5OK0rEvqHDQ

I'm curious to know the reasoning why Mike was chosen as the lead vocalist over the original Dennis vocal.  Mike's is sorta interesting, unlike anything else he's ever done, but objectively I just don't think it's as strong as Denny's, and I wonder if Denny just didn't have the self confidence to release that type of vocal for himself at that point, or what the reason was.

Well, actually Dennis is struggling to get this song right. Mike's voice (or technique) in that range is much fuller and strong, so I can see why he got the lead on that. While I like Dennis', it is certainly not as direct and in-your-face as Mike's.

I'd been meaning to say something like this as well Rocker. While I think having a Dennis lead on "All I Want To Do" is freaking awesome, it has made me re-investigate the song, and I have to say that Mike Love is the right singer for it. I think if one is able to try to forget its that litigious, money grubbing goofball you realize that his voice really cuts through on this cut in a way Dennis' voice didn't. It'd be like having a breathy Carl lead on "Heroes and Villains" rather than Brian's lead in my opinion. It just wouldn't work. Or at the least it'd be really different.