Bob Welch during there hey day in the early-to-mid 60s? He was about the same age as Carl and Dennis and was also from socal. I sort of wonder if its possible he met up with them at that point or if he was even in the music business at the time.

[America could be another example.]

I'd like to ask the original poster which songs come to mind when talking about Sunshine Pop?

basically the Association, Mamas and Papas, Turtles, Fifth Dimension. Stuff along those lines.

Some have much broader definitions of sunshine pop which is just fine. Everything is open to discussion. I know that some collectors include much more psychadelic stuff or music that's very close to be termed muzak or easy listening by others. The term 'soft pop' at the very least seems to be much broader.... And if THAT'S what we're discussing here, then, yes, as others have mentioned, you could point to a shitload of artists from the 70s and onwards who took their cue from the sunnier and softer sides of 60s pop,... the Carpenters, case in point. America could be another example.

That's like an insult to America. I viewed them more as Neil Young influenced.

It seems like a lot of music from the mid 60s evolved into other stuff. The Byrds type of music evolved into the Burrito Brothers, Poco, the Eagles etc. The Yardbirds, Kinks, Stones type of music sort of evolved into Deep Purple or Led Zeppelin.

It seems that with sunshine pop, there was no real next step and by 1969 or 1970, that type of music was extinct not only on FM, but even on AM radio.

"Black Dog" by Zep with Dennis Wilson circa mid-70's on lead vocals.

of all the LZ songs - I think the song "down by the seaside" could have been one Dennis could have covered in POB.

Where to Now St Peter would have been a good song to cover with Dennis on the piano and maybe Carl (or even Blondie) on vocals.

my view is that after a certain time, still being in the beach boys was sort of a hindrance to the musical careers of Carl and Dennis, who were finally becoming musicians in there own right. Don't forget that they were still pretty young at the peak of there success (Carl being 19 and Dennis being 21). So should Carl and Dennis have started there own group sort of like how Graham Gouldman and Eric Stewart (who were both British invasion retreads) decided to launch a second career and start a new band?

In a way, I think if you count Blondie and Ricky as Lol and Kevin, thats basically what the So Tough/Holland era was but I still think having the name The Beach Boys when surf music was largely dead by 1966 or so, certainly imprisoned them somewhat.

by that I mean a song with a great riff but the rest of the song is meh. Two I can think of are "Sun King" on Abbey Road (Beatles) and "Fire" on SmileySmile. The guitar riff on Sun King could have been used on another song and the basic refrain of "Fire" sounds a lot like Cream. Maybe they could have used the rights to use it as a backing track to one of the songs on "Wheels of Fire".

Any others?

here's my pick:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rNx9_yBDVQ

I sort of think that the surfers in SoCal 50 years ago were kind of the first counterculture contingent at the time and was sort of an early iteration of the more vocally abrasive type of subculture of skateboarding (think of Lords of Dogtown) and punks in general, in which SoCal seemed like a fertile ground for. The Descendants, Reel Big Fish, NOFX, Goldfinger, Sublime etc were all from Southern California.

anyone here think this cover version of a BB song sort of has that 80s Roxy Music sounding vibe to it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNpuRf_BA60

anyone seen this picture before. It looks like it was taken around 1972. All six of them (except Brian) are standing in front of a car in the middle of what looks to be Arizona. Very Desperado looking.

like what would have happened if they broke up around the time of Wild Honey? Would any of them join other groups? I could imagine Carl creating a group with someone like Lowell George, Glenn Frey and one or two other guys.

Only With You isnt a downer.

its in the same category as "Wouldn't It Be Nice". It sounds upbeat on first glance but implies that there is some looming threat to their existing love.

does it seem that there are two basic types of beach boys songs - uppers and downers?

Uppers
Fun, Fun, Fun
Good Vibrations
Surfin Safari
California Girls

Downers
Only With You
Til I Die
All This Is That
Sail On Sailor

another question I should ask here (without starting a new thread) is what guest musician would you have liked on a song or album?

Manzarek I think would have been a good guest keyboardist on their late 60s/early 70s stuff.

Possibly, although I hope in the hypothetical scenario we would've still got 'In Concert'.

we would. The scenario would have them touring in 1973 and then when Stephen and Blondie get into an argument, the group breaks up.

have been considered more significant, especially if it was the last song on the album (just like The End was for the beatles minus that short diddy at the end).

now somewhere out in the hills off trancas lived a young lad named michael the loon
and one day his woman came up with another lie
hit young michael in the eye
michael didn't like that he said i'm gonna find that cig
and one day he walked into town walked himself  into the studio
michael the loon checked into the room only to find his friends chuckling
Michael had come equipped with a nun-chuck
to beat the piss out of his rival
his rival it seems had broken his dreams
by stealing the girl of his fancy
her name was Suzanne but away had she ran
and everyone thought she was crazy
Now and she and her "friend who called himself den'
were in the next room at his res'dence
Brucie burst in and grinning a grin
he said denny boy this is a lawsuit
but denny was hot and brucie just thought
that he would just get a promotion



D'da d'da d'da da da da
D'da d'da d'da da da da
D'da d'da d'da da d'da d'da d'da d'da
Do do do do do do

D'do d'do d'do do do do
D'do d'do d'do do do do
D'do d'do d'do do do d'do d'do d'do d'do
Do do do do do do

now the lawyer came in, striking a grin
and proceeded to sit at the table
He said Mikey you got a case
and Mikey said man just punch his face
and we'll be better man as soon as we've got brian

And now Mikey the loon fell back in his room
Only to find his friend's chuckling
Brian checked out and he left it no doubt
To help with good Mikey's revival, ah
Oh yeah, yeah

The Beach Boys?

yes

I'll start.

David Gilmour

Dig A Pony

Dennis was what is called a "user" or "hanger-on"

There's a 'story' circulating on the 'net, which I've seen crop up numerous times now (usually when there's some heavy-duty Mike bashing taking place), which claims that when Shawn was seriously ill she contacted Mike asking him to give her money so she could afford some much-needed surgery. He refused, she died.

Now, I realise Mike has done some questionable things over the years, but refusing to fund a life-saving op for his own daughter just seems outright evil and I cannot believe there is any truth in this... So where and how did this story arise? I'd like to know the facts so that next time some Mike-hater brings it up I can set them straight (as I did after learning the truth behind the 'Mike popping champagne on the news of Dennis' death' story, courtesy of AGD).

What I read about Mike was that before the beach boys (late 50s/early 60s), he was a humorous and fun guy to be around. In "An American Family" it shows Mike and Dennis as buddies going surfing together (the scene being set circa 1960). The more I read about them, I realize that Mike, Dennis and Brian were three immature kids with previously little exposure to the outside world who maybe couldn't handle fame and fortune at a young age. 

is Dennis doing the backing vocals in "409"?

is the guitar that becomes apparent in Sail on Sailor on the "sail and stumble, never crumble" part, played by Carl?