I still have trouble witht he 1970 date for Don't You Just Know It. Jan just wasn't recording much yet 1973 is far more likely. Won't You Tell Him from fall of 1971 is a great Brian vocal too.

IIRC, the first recollection I have of the '70 date was in Surf's Up (the book). And, even though it seems hard to fathom, wasn't the story that Jan's vocal was indeed laid down in '73? I guess it's just something that's stuck for all these years in light of any newer info.

*Is* there any newer info than that, Andrew?

Personally speaking, I would probably hesitate to use the phrase 'start of deterioration' in terms of the '69-'70 sound vs. more of the noted timbral and stylistic change (less of the wondrous and sonorous "whine").

That is, when I hear the purest, most unfutzed examples of Brian in the mid-60s -- the Humble Harve recording, the Bernstein SU, the '67 Hawaii H&V  -- I really don't hear *that* much of a difference in the overall shape of his voice using Brian's best studio work in '69 and '70 (obviously the only concert examples we have from '70 are the lo-fi audience tapes where Brian sat in).

The range/purity of his falsetto on "Forever" from early '69 is still pretty impressive. The b**ted version even has that hair-raising scream by him at the end. And, his backings on "Our Sweet Love" from late '69 or early '70 still have that certain something to them (including the unreleased, mixed-out bit at the end).


YMMV of course:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rH4NH6MW98

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvzp3rfPL4k




Also, His "Soulful Old Man Sunshine" backings (and the demo for that matter) and "Games Two Can Play" from '69 are two others that come to mind. Even something like his opening line on "Feet," ('70) or something like the double-tracked "Awake" demo from '71 can still chill me.

That's not to say that there may not have had some lifestyle-induced, rougher moments on tape during that era (the aforementioned DYJKI), but...

I guess the question that should be asked here is...what tunes in the BB canon does anyone think would be better if Al had sung lead?

I think he'd have done a better job on the lead vocal of "Isn't It Time"...

I actually agree with this sentiment. In fact, when I saw that Al was back in the studio in Europe doing his vocals for the reworked single version, my first assumption was that the band was going to "go for broke" and indeed have him replace Brian's first-verse vocal. In truth, after hearing the album version, I think I actually would have preferred it this way from the get-go. And while I do think Brian sounded fine, and even *quite* nice elsewhere on the album, and while, probably in a minority view, I actually (much!) prefer the reworking of IIT to the original, if they honestly were looking to achieve substantial radio play (and striving for a "hit" single), it probably really would have been a better idea to have Al sing that initial verse (IMHO).

On the other hand, this most likely would've been a highly controversial and politically volatile move to make. At least, after-the-fact of the original recording/release. That is, I *get* why Brian sang it to begin with......and why it remained that way.

At least it's not totally mysterious - we have a version that is said to be very authentic to the original recording (Adam Marsland) - all of us have heard what this song sounds like, and can imagine it in our heads as being sung by Dennis with Brian + Carl backing vox. Yeah, we've built it up, but how could it not be insanely great?

That's how I feel about it as well. That is, thanks to the Adam-Evie version, we can pretty much fill in the blanks in our heads as to what it will sound like, considering the era that it was recorded and the players involved. It's a great DW-SS collaboration, with a classic, infectious melody and lyrics, so it would have to be pretty awful in execution for me to be disappointed with it (which I seriously doubt, courtesy of the detailed descriptions that we already have and considering the era again). Ultimately, it doesn't need to be the greatest thing since sliced bread to squash any "hype" for me. Just another solid piece of the BBs-Dennis puzzle in that place in time, which from all indications, it is in spades.

Also, my gut feeling is that it will be released on the upcoming box. With the recent remasters not going the bonus track route, this is the best place for it to be, and frankly, the most enticing place where the band can put it. I'm sure the powers-that-be aren't stupid in their realization that it's the rarities that are going to attract most fans into shelling out the big bucks for this set in a tough economy, and they're going to need a prime Dennis rarity or three to help fill that requirement. The fact that we came within an inch of having the recording released a decade ago tells me that there's no good reason not to release it, nor is the band necessarily averse to the idea. And unlike the fact that it was nixed from Summer Love Songs, I don't think it will be an either-or type scenario with the box here due to the space at hand. Like I said, if they're looking for Dennis rarities, as well as acclaim for the set, why not put their best foot forward? It serves them *all* well in the end - both artistically and financially. The hardcore fan base isn't getting any younger, and as we sadly just found out again, the kind of audience that wants to savor and appreciate this track isn't going to be around forever. On that note, I know the track was played at fan gatherings; I just truly hope Les got a chance to properly soak it all in, in nice quality, before his untimely passing. Forever indeed.


Now, if internal politics or some greater master plan trump all of the above, there better be damned good reason (IMNSHO). As someone else implied, it would seem awfully contemptuous at this point not to include it. Frankly, I just can't believe that would happen (or don't want to believe it). Most likely, this is going to be the last, all-encompassing career overview that the band ever does. Make it count, check egos and any past history, and make it the best. And again, due to the delay, all indications are that this is exactly what they are doing.


PS - My other big "fear," a few months back and considering its potential, was that the reunited band would dismantle the track and attempt to re-cook it into a "new" studio song. I still hope that idea never comes to pass -- namely if it translates into the original track being deep-sixed 'til the end of time. Though, I think it would be a great dream to have the band be in some kind of position to play the track *live* one day. In fact, that actually sounds like a not-half-bad way to promote the box and as another tribute to the original band. Best of all worlds.

I still have a sealed vinyl Sunflower that I found in a record store here in KC back in 1976. Paid $4. The record store was owned by Ed Asner's brother. I believe the store was named Caper's Corner.

I love stories like this. I found a sealed copy, as well, at a record show in the early 1980s. And then, foolishly and ceremoniously, proceeded to unseal it. It's sitting right in front of me now. Probably still my best copy. An Artisan cut.

BTW...anyone else noticed the barrage of original issue, US Sunflowers to hit eBay since the new remaster came out? Probably the most I've ever seen there at one time! Good time to grab one on vinyl.

Dave
Sounds like you are from Cleveland. So am I. My fav girlfriend lived in Parma(1971). Shopped at Higbee's with my mom all the time in Public Square. Doo-Dah, who also posts here, has many old Cleveland stories. I was weened on WMMS back in the day. Indians on the lakefront on a Summer night. Browns in a blizzard. That Beach Boys show at Cleveland stadium in 1974. Set a world record at the time for most amplification. REO Speedwagon and Joe Walsh?

'Tis true. I'm a lifelong "Parmanian" -- born and raised here. Save for a short stint in Streetsboro, and my first house in Old Brooklyn.

The Rumours set has me puzzled. I've owned a Deluxe edition for a few years… how will the new set be any different?

More stuff. 

Here's a thread on it, including the track list.

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/fleetwood-mac-rumours-reissue-tracklisting-s.303555/

The other thing that probably fueled my fire with Sunflower at the time of my Beach Boys "flowering" was the simple fact of how damned elusive the record was to find -- new or used -- even by the mid-to-late 70s.

I mean, one could already find bins and bins of brand new cutouts and overruns of 15 BO, LY and MIU in the $1.99 section of my local Peaches Records and Tapes store by 1978 (and even something like a cutout 8-track tape of Surf's Up in 99 cent section!). But Sunflower? Forget about it. Thus, it was the hardest to find, and one of the last of the original albums I tracked down in my journey. So, the search was obviously driving me. Talk about riches at the end of the tunnel! Thank you Record Revolution at Parmatown! The first used record store on the west side of Cleveland, and where I practically lived as a teen!

I also still love that gatefold cover more than any other in the band's catalog as well. I used to stare at that technical (recording) rundown before I even knew what half that stuff meant. And the beautiful, sunny photos? Did the band ever look this youthful and innocent again? "Good Humor" indeed!



PS - Speaking of our Peaches Records and Tapes...Dennis did an "in-store" there around the time of POB.

You are exactly right, Dave. Many younger Beach Boys' fans don't realize how difficult it was to get a hold of the early BB catalogue in the mid/late 1970's. I had to order Sunflower at the local record store as an import from England, and paid big bucks (in those days) for it. And, boy, did I treat that vinyl with kid gloves!

Indeed. That's why I was blown away when I found that 1980 UK CBS/Caribou cassette copy of Sunflower quietly sitting in the budget tape section of a local Gold Circle department store in the mid-80s. Though, that was one of the cool things about that era, in that import *tapes* seemed to find their way into the rack jobbers' distribution chains from time to time (i.e. department stores, etc.). I also remember finding the import, Parlophone 8-track version of "Hollies Greatest" around that same time in the basement of a Higbee's Department Store -- the version having the UK track lineup with the alt. "Yes I Will," and not the budget, green-labeled US Capitol reissue that came out around that time. It made record shopping fun and always an adventure!


I also found the 1980 UK vinyl counterpart of Sunflower around that time (which I just recently sold on the Hoffman board). Cool in that, like the tape and unlike the earlier, black-labeled UK Stateside version and 2-LP Stateside version with SU, it used the *US* track lineup -- minus "Cottonfields." It used the nifty Caribou "deer" label to boot. Pretty wild in that it took us folks in the US until 1990 to get a real, bona fide reissue of the album .


But...I digress.

I still have a sealed vinyl Sunflower that I found in a record store here in KC back in 1976. Paid $4. The record store was owned by Ed Asner's brother. I believe the store was named Caper's Corner.

I love stories like this. I found a sealed copy, as well, at a record show in the early 1980s. And then, foolishly and ceremoniously, proceeded to unseal it. It's sitting right in front of me now. Probably still my best copy. An Artisan cut.

BTW...anyone else noticed the barrage of original issue, US Sunflowers to hit eBay since the new remaster came out? Probably the most I've ever seen there at one time! Good time to grab one on vinyl.

The other thing that probably fueled my fire with Sunflower at the time of my Beach Boys "flowering" was the simple fact of how damned elusive the record was to find -- new or used -- even by the mid-to-late 70s.

I mean, one could already find bins and bins of brand new cutouts and overruns of 15 BO, LY and MIU in the $1.99 section of my local Peaches Records and Tapes store by 1978 (and even something like a cutout 8-track tape of Surf's Up in 99 cent section!). But Sunflower? Forget about it. Thus, it was the hardest to find, and one of the last of the original albums I tracked down in my journey. So, the search was obviously driving me. Talk about riches at the end of the tunnel! Thank you Record Revolution at Parmatown! The first used record store on the west side of Cleveland, and where I practically lived as a teen!

I also still love that gatefold cover more than any other in the band's catalog as well. I used to stare at that technical (recording) rundown before I even knew what half that stuff meant. And the beautiful, sunny photos? Did the band ever look this youthful and innocent again? "Good Humor" indeed!



PS - Speaking of our Peaches Records and Tapes...Dennis did an "in-store" there around the time of POB.

I love Sunflower and make no apologies in saying that I think it's a crown jewel within the band's catalog. Bought my first copy, used, in the late 70s.

How much do I love it? There was a roughly 12-year period in my life where I think could've quoted every individual musical figure, phrase and cadence of that album from memory and on-the-spot. I had the mix burned into my brain. I eventually had multiple vinyl and tape pressings from multiple countries and would continue to actively seek out as many as I could find at record shows, Goldmine, etc. It probably got to the point where I had the kind of relationship with the record that some Beach Boys fans have with the Smile saga. I wanted to know everything about it. Read everything I could find on the subject (which at the time wasn't a particularly easy task). Correct my own misconceptions over it. Surf's Up (the book) was a good start, but I wanted to know more. Way back when, someone who shall remain nameless and in-the-know was kind enough to send me session/unreleased song info from that '69-'70 era -- also at a time when a person couldn't just do a couple of quick clicks on a website to find these sorts of things. That, in itself, was amazing and precious info to me.

In 1987, I drove from Tampa to Cleveland in a 22-hour straight shot with only a few choice musical selections in the car and a tape of Sunflower (the 1980 CBS/Caribou UK cassette reissue that I picked up a few years earlier in a Gold Circle department store in the budget tape section of all strange places). When my car amp literally went up in smoke just outside of Charlotte NC, and with only 50 bucks left in my pocket, I chose to pull off and go buy a Sony Walkman -- instead of stopping to spend the night in a motel -- just so I could continue to listen to *that* album. It literally propped me up, on endless repeat, for the last 8 hours and home to the finish line. So, bottom line, I obviously really, really liked the album a lot. Still do. Other than "Tears," which never really resonated with me (though I do slightly prefer the unreleased version), I don't personally consider any of the songs on that album to be weak or subpar. But that's just me.


Why does it work for me? Too many reasons to name and many that have already been mentioned here. But, for starters, it's perhaps the most majestic album in the band's catalog. Desper's layered production has a lot to do with that, but the production only enhances everything around it. Due to the innovative way it's mixed, it's the ultimate late 60s/early 70s stereo headphone album for me. Not so much in audiophile terms, but rather, as a damned fun record to listen to; the way things pop in an out of the mix from all directions. As Mike noted, it may also be the high water mark in terms of the band's vocal *quality*. I'm big into vocal textures and timbres, and there's just some great, great singing and arranging on that album. Sort of the culmination of everyone at their youthful peaks. Very aurally satisfying to me. Ten years later...it was a whole different vibe.

I also think it is a fair argument to make that the album, as it stands, wasn't designed as a singular, cohesive statement from the get-go, but that said, I wouldn't change hardly a thing in terms of the tracks that did end up on it. For me, editing and cobbling's all fine and good if editing and cobbling works. In that regard, it only set the tone for the model that would follow for years to come. On the contrary, it's also hard not to to argue that this was perhaps the most prolific era for the band in the studio. And, even though they weren't necessarily designed that way, I always think of 20/20, Sunflower and SU as a three-album arc in terms of quality, sound and style. I guess it's no surprise that those are three of my favorite albums by the band.


Finally, the full and true realization of Dennis as a creative force. Nothing more need be said on that subject.


I give it a 93 on the Dave meter.

1 - Pet Sounds
2 - Sunflower
3 - 20/20
4 - Surf's Up
5 - Today...or SDSN...or Friends (okay...I cheated)

Absolutely love Marcella. Really like CATP. Have no problems at all with the production -- with either the former or the latter. Would also agree that the live version on In Concert is about as close to The Stones as the band ever got. A different vibe from the studio version but great nonetheless. I have a similar feeling regarding The Association's Dubuque Blues -- studio and live album versions.

But...that's just me.

So the 50 Big Ones version of "Isn't It Time" is actually 10 seconds longer than the iTunes single.  Looks like the iTunes version has a slightly more sped-up tempo.  What's up with that?

This intrigues me. As I believe I noted in another thread, the BBC-streamed version was digitally time-compressed. That is, a tempo "speed-up" but with no pitch change. I had assumed it was their doing. Now, maybe that's not the case after all? Is the iTunes version moving along quicker than the 50 BO's version but still in the same key as well?

Just as a quick FYI, for folks who actually care about these little things...  

I did finally do a direct comparison the iTunes EP version of the single version of "Isn't It Time" to the BBC version. They're the exact same time-compressed "sped-up" version (although with the radio airing fading out a bit early). Which makes perfect sense now, because lo and behold, there's now a 1-track CD radio station promo of the track floating around where it's referred to right on the disc as the "Radio Edit." This is obviously the disc that was supplied to the BBC all those weeks ago for its radio debut.

Again...this is the same 3:38 version that's on the iTunes EP -- digitally time compressed to move the track along at a quicker tempo while keeping it in the same key. (i.e. not an "analog-type" speed-up). It's *not* time-compressed on 50 Big Ones.


Call me a heretic, but I actually like this time-compressed "Radio Edit." It "peps" the track up slightly without making everyone sound like a chipmunk. Sort of ironic too, in that, like the very first Capitol single of their career, the potentially last Capitol single of their career has had its speed tweaked, too, in a released form (with the first one obviously being an analog speed-up and pitch change). Symmetry!

In conclusion:

"Isn't It Time" - single version
50 Big Ones - 3:47
"Radio Edit" - 3:38 (digitally time-compressed)


Edit: Listening again to both versions, there *may* be a bit of "analog-type" speed-up as well. Going back and forth...I honestly can't tell. Any changes in pitch are virtually imperceptible. At least to my 4:30am ears they are...lol.

As was previously mentioned... it was never officially released.  The chances of it even existing in the digital realm are slim to none... especially since most BB fans consider it to be a piece of garbage.  I have a VHS copy taped off of the television when it originally aired somewhere in our basement.  That said... good luck in your search... but personally... I think you might be chasing your tail.  I just don't think it's out there to be had.

It shouldn't be THAT hard to find - it aired at least a dozen times in the past couple months on VH1 Classic...but officially, right...no.

It's also been run -- uncut and in HD -- on both HDNet Movies and the Sony Movie Channel in the last year, as well as in edited form on WGN HD.

Just a heads-up for those here in the States...

Palladia will show the Beach Boys recent appearance on Later with Jools Holland (actually their 2nd, "Thursday performance" from the show) starting on Thursday Nov. 1st at 10pm eastern. It will then run a few more times, after that, over the next several days. It's a one-hour slot.

Nice to see all the Tascam love! I might buy one again one of these days for old times sake.

I once bought a Tascam 488 mkII (like the one in the picture) off of ebay. It was around 2003 when I was 19. Unfortunately since a few weeks ago there's something wrong with the casette deck and I don't know how to fix it. But those boards are a lot of fun.

The 424 really was a nifty little unit. My favorite thing...probably the vari-speed pitch control. In fact, I used the unit to do my very first stereo mixes of California Girls (using Stack-O-Tracks + the box set bonus disc) and Wouldn't It Be Nice on it. As I'm sure many others here did at the time.

I even bought the pedal to go along with the unit so I could do punch-ins while my hands were tied up (i.e. with guitar and keyboards).

Ha, that's brilliant, what a rush! 

I actually got the same 4 track machine in 97 I think. I was 18 and recording rubbish teenage angst songs though.

Heck, I still have a Tascam 424 sitting about 6 feet away from me as we speak. Dormant....but still there. It really was a nice unit back in the day.

Very cool story, btw.

[structurally]

and we're talking about LYRICAL CONTENT on a Beach Boys board? that's silly!

It's not so much a matter of whether the lyric is deep...or not....has meaning...or not....is good....or not, etc. I can listen to plenty of songs with bad lyrics. I'm not even a "lyrics guy," in general, when it comes to the Beach Boys. It's just that, in the particular example I gave, I find it structurally annoying (i.e.  the "or guy" add-on at the end of the phrase). It really bugs me to the point where it disrupts everything else for me.

"Be True To Your School"

for me, it depends which one. I hate the one with the Rovell sisters but I like the ES version.

I don't know. I think I hate 'em both...lol. Though, in truth, I'll admit that the fact that I've always thought of the 45 as the one rote, uninspiring, annoying single of the Beach Boys early career -- compared to the company around it that is -- probably clouded my judgment somewhat. If it were just an annoying album track for me, I may not have focused on it as such.

As it stands for both versions, I hated them when I first heard them nearly 40 years ago, and I still hate them today. I can usually pull something good out of any BW/ML concoction from the era, no matter how formulaic it night be, but as noted, this one just tweaks me and seems so pedestrian to me on so many levels. From that opening awkward chorus lyric..."just like you would to your girl......or guy," to that bland melody. Ugh. As a good friend of mine said....."F**k school spirit!" On Wisconsin indeed.

I think I'd rather hear "Denny's Drums" on repeat.  

"Be True To Your School"

...At one point, he mentioned that there would be a corrected version of the remaster, but that obviously never came to fruition.

It did as I have a corrected version of the Rhino remaster. To get it, however, I needed to mail my incorrect CD to Rhino for them to mail me the corrected version (this was immediately after the release). I don't believe Rhino did a recall on the first shipment and the title probably wasn't popular enough to warrant a second run to be issued to stores, so the majority of the copies out there contain the incorrect mixes.

Ahhh...good to know. I remember people were waiting for word of a corrected version. It must have slipped through the cracks for me, as I still have the "bad" one.

(That... or I did hear of the replacement at the time and, having the the original CD, simply decided to keep the the one with the alt. mixes thinking it would be a collectible. I honestly can't remember!)

2Dave Modny: wow, really? Is this performance on Youtube or anywhere else? Anyway, thanks for the info!

Good question. I don't know. The "Going Platinum" special was produced for Showtime back in 1980. Though, I saw it in the summer of that year when it was part of a syndicated series of shows known as The Blue Jean Network. It was basically a documentary on the recording of the KTSA album. One interesting part of the doc had them briefly playing an off-the-cuff bit of Brian's unreleased song, "Goin' To The Beach."

Since then, some of the footage has popped up in other places as well....such as the "An American Band" doc. For example, the scene where the band is walking along the Monterey coastline in AAB.


PS - I don't think the album ended up "going platinum" after all...lol.

[unlabeled]

was it taken down?

i'm not seeing it.

It's right under the "IJWMFTT" album cover.

Somewhere...I have a VHS recording of a piece that Brian and Carnie did for Entertainment Tonight while they were laying it down.

That's awesome. Don't think I ever saw that one. Any chance you could upload it?

I'd love to...if I could find it! I'm ashamed to say that I have boxes and boxes of unlabeled VHS, Beta and 3/4 inch U-Matic tapes. Not good.

I haven't seen: Is "Sunshine" pretty much hated around these parts, or do people like it?

I personally don't hate it. Though, I'd reckon that the whole BB's meet Jamaica/reggae thing is annoying to some. At the very least, as noted, it's one of the few tracks on the album where Brian's clearly audible. IIRC, when they did that whole Goin' Platinum promo thing for the album, this was one of the songs they showed the band performing (albeit staged)...and Brian was fairly into it.

I always liked this one. Bought "Trios" when it first came out, though I honestly don't think I ever played another track on the CD.

IMHO,  this wasn't the best era for Brian in terms of lead vocals, but his layered backings never let him down. Someone mentioned Shortenin' Bread, but the tag at the end also always reminded me of the whole "Pied Piper better get back in bed" bit. Maybe...just a little in style (though obviously without any CW input).

Somewhere...I have a VHS recording of a piece that Brian and Carnie did for Entertainment Tonight while they were laying it down.