I guess time has coloured my memory. But I remember a general feeling of 'if only Brian had the freedom to do whatever he chose to do, he'd come up with another Pet Sounds / Smile / Love You". That kind of crap. We know better now, thank God.

Yep. We get the TLOS sessions instead, which are good enough for me. 

TLOS was a good album. I fully support the notion of enjoying what Brian delivers, insted of waiting for what he "should" be doing or "could" be doing.

Rob was -- and is -- a quality guy and real fan of long standing, as are Andrew Hickey, TDHabib, and a bunch of people who used to post.  I can't speak to the circumstances of their departure (although I recall that some were treated quite nastily), but they are missed. And the departure of informed, well-spoken fans from a forum like this should never be celebrated.

Poor McCabe. Too bad he was a quality guy and a real fan with a bad habit of harassing other folks through Private Messages. May he rot wherever he is.

That Michael DeMartin independent site had a certain tone... "Inflamatory" would be the word. There was an interview with Andy Paley (i think) where some beans were spilled about the real involvement of Brian in the works that brought his signature.

The veracity of some of Andy's comments about his collaboration with Brian are highly suspect. The interview was posted in a time when Brian was releasing Imagination rather than the Paley tracks, so there was some score-settling going on.

All that being said, the website wasn't really that inflammatory. It was just not super thrilled with the Imagination project, IIRC. He went out of his way to praise Brian's first solo shows with the more stripped down versions of the Imagination songs, for example.

I guess time has coloured my memory. But I remember a general feeling of 'if only Brian had the freedom to do whatever he chose to do, he'd come up with another Pet Sounds / Smile / Love You". That kind of crap. We know better now, thank God.

For those who don't know who Michael DeMartin is, he used to run a Brian Wilson fan website called Pet Sounds. This was a few years before Brian had his own website. It was a very expensive-looking website where Michael archived a lot of Brian and Beach Boys articles, photos, and other media. I think it may have also had a fan message board, though I can't remember. Brian and his management took notice of the website and were so impressed with Michael's work that they hired him to be the designer of Brian's own website and message board. Michael is also in charge of Brian's Facebook and Twitter pages.

That Michael DeMartin independent site had a certain tone... "Inflamatory" would be the word. There was an interview with Andy Paley (i think) where some beans were spilled about the real involvement of Brian in the works that brought his signature.

Interesting that this same guy was hired by teh wifeandmanagers. Keep your friends close, keep your enemies even closer.

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Just wondering where was all of this openness and tolerance for guesses and speculations and opinions when topics like, oh, the lyric credits for "Wouldn't It Be Nice" were being discussed?

I'm also waiting to see all of this welcoming spirit for random speculations and guesses when the next person posts any topic on this board with the words "Smile" and "Mike" in the subject line.

 

Oh, wait...those involve settled "facts" that can't be discussed or speculated on. What was I thinking? 

Well, you're free to express your opinion that Mike deserved the credits for WIBN and that Brian singlehandedly killed Smile. I guess that's going to stir up some heated discussion, but that's what we do here. 

There's still plenty of space for speculations and uneducated guesses.

As long as you agree with them? 

We're all human and love to hear words that corroborate our opinion.

I'm human. I presume you're too. 

I don't think Ray has any desire to be an oracle that comes and ceases any debate about Brian.

Sure, if any wacko starts posting here that he's heard that Brian is depressed and will kill himself any time now, Ray is welcome to bring some sanity and assure that he talked on the phone to Brian this week and he was very interested in who would win the World Series.

On the other hand, if we were in 2003, do you think he'd tell us that Brian didn't give a crap about the new CD, phoned in his vocals and the whole project is a mess and an embarassment to his career? Hell no! At least I'd never do it with a friend of mine.

So let's not get carried away so much about Ray and 'the truth'. There's still plenty of space for speculations and uneducated guesses.

I know John Stamos is a genuine fan of the band and I'll bet he really experiences some mixed emotions when he's performing with Mike.

He knows the history and has played with Al before - a thrill to be playing WITH your all time favorite band but yet he's stuck knee deep in the drama too.

The Beach Boys world = Bizarro World

There was an interview last year with Stamos in Guitar Aficionado magazine. A part of it is online, but the part where he talks about fans’ opinions of him is not in the excerpt.

Long story short, Stamos appears to be very aware of the fact that a segment of Beach Boys fans don’t like him. I think he referred to them as “hardcore Brian Wilson fans.” Stamos’ comments were simultaneously refreshing and perplexing. He admits some fans are annoyed by his presence with the band, then he admits that if he went to a Beach Boys show and saw Scott Baio on stage with them, he would be annoyed too. Yet, he then explains that essentially he plays with the Beach Boys because he’s a fan (does anybody doubt he’s a fan of Brian and the Beach Boys?), and pretty much boils it down to “who wouldn’t get on stage and play with them?” I remember reading that part and thinking there have to be some non-narcissistic fans out there who would rather watch the band play from the audience than continually jump on stage with them year after year, especially if they knew some fans are annoyed and they didn’t really add anything to the stage presentation.

Stamos also discussed his idea for a movie themed with Beach Boys music. Again, I don’t have the interview in front of me, but also seemed to be keenly aware that his 2000 TV movie did not go over well with some in the Beach Boys organization or their fans. I think his idea was to use BB music in a movie but keep their story or the members out of it.

So, Stamos is pretty aware of the mixed reception he gets from fans. It seems like he pretty much still appears with them because he can, and because it’s an easy excuse to f*** off and be a rock star when he’s not busy doing acting stuff.

Just reading the excerpt of the interview that is online, it sounds like Stamos would have a lot of interesting and fun BB-related stories (the online excerpt includes discussing rehearsing for the 1985 4th of July shows with Foskett and Jimmy Page), although we would be unlikely to get anything that reflects negatively on actual band members (if such stories are there to be told).

Interesting. I think what he has in mind is some kind of "Mama Mia' / 'Across the Universe' movie.

If Brian had never written a song in his life he would have been in out of institutions since the late 60s. Probably dead by now.

On the other hand, yes, he has a support system. But Scott would never write a "Midnight's Another Day" on his own or Joe Thomas write the material in TWGMTR on his own.

Was Jeff Beck lying? No, that's what happened that week in the studio. I still think he could kept his thoughts to himself because they didn't do anybody any good.

So that's how I see it from far, far away. What can you do when Brian releases a new album? Add a 5 pages press release where it's explained why he needs a support system and how left on his own we'd never be listening to a new album of his? Too complicated. That's Brian's new CD, end of story.

After the last 16 years of Beach Boys activity - that is, Mike being extremely happy to tour as the Beach Boys without Al - why would Mike and his team make an effort to include Al in an one-off concert without Al's knowledge?

15 Big Ones is great if you want to study Brian's ressurgence as a producer in 75/76. Lots of quircks and special touches that no one else would have done.

But as a straight listen.... it's tough.

A remixed 15 Big Ones would sell squat. with a reluctant AGD as one of the 150 buyers.

Since we can dream, I think a double CD package collecting all the Brian's back era (remixed 15 Big One + outtakes, remixed Love You + outtakes & the contemporary tracks recorded for 'new album' and 'adult/child') could raise some interest. Of course it will never happen. Even if Universal decided to market the Beach Boys catalogue this way there would be Sunflower and Surf's Up to be mined first.

My guess: The change of focus for the "next album" was made so that Brian would get enthusiatic again about going to the studio. Working with Al, David, Blondie and Jeff Beck was fine for a while but Brian needed a new angle and the "guest singers young enough to be his grandchildren" angle made it. As long as the tracks keep the quality of the last decade of Brian's career, I think it's ok. So yeah, Brian doesn't mastermind projects and hasn't since the 60s, what's new about that? He must be prompted to write songs, record albums, go on a stage and basically live a normal life, what's new about that? It doesn't make him a vegetable or a puppet in the hand of his handlers, just Brian Douglas Wilson circa 2014.

Now, PERSONALLY, I would be disgusted if the presence of the young ones was used by the hype machine as evidence that "Brian's more relevant than ever". Come on, it's just some duets, just like he did with carole King and Burt Bacharach some years ago. Brian Wilson is a giant and doesn't need to be hyped in a cheap way.

over and over a square peg in a round hole in the cornfield.

Ok, ok. Just make sure that Brian knows it's Zoey, and not Joey.  

Speaking strictly about BUSINESS...

I don't think hip artists guesting on Brian's new album will move much more copies or downloads. Brian had his shot after the huge release of BWPS and TLOS didn't change his solo commercial fortunes. Now if he hadn't relesed a solo CD in 30 years it would cause some comotion, but that's not the case.

You are Mike Love and I want my $ 0.34, now.

I wish! Too much hair fortunately.  

Fair enough, but come on, the only reason to have Zoey on this album is BUSINESS. Not that she can't carry a tune, and not that her voice will make it a batter or worse album musically...

Speaking strictly about BUSINESS...

I don't think hip artists guesting on Brian's new album will move much more copies or downloads. Brian had his shot after the huge release of BWPS and TLOS didn't change his solo commercial fortunes. Now if he hadn't relesed a solo CD in 30 years it would cause some comotion, but that's not the case.

If the songs are good I don't care if Brian is singing a duet with Charles Manson. "A Friend Like You" sucked not because Paul's voice didn't blend with Brian's, it sucked beacause it was a forgettable dittie. If Paul had guested in "Midnight's Another Day" they would have sounded good together.

Of course, the concept of good songs is very subjective.

Perhaps it would be more useful to interview Joe Thomas.

The hatred for Mike unfortunately looms beyond the Cult of Brian Wilson. But I'd say that 90% of those who listened to at least more than one career album by the Beach Boys are ok with Mike.

....

He don't ah? I wouldn't share in here and make it known. People watch this place. He has plenty to lose if they go after him. Let me ask you, would you share with people who act like pricks? Whether something is bullshit or not, you don't say it like that. I would have been offended if asked like that. Also, one should never assume that they are going to be treated and the other party doesn't need to give a reason either. Clay asked for identification help and everyone started feeling entitled to what he had. If you have something like this, of course this is the place to come to find out exactly what you have. He did right by going to Jon and Jon only. He's one of the expert here, not all of us.

You have an opinion and are sticking to it. You think veryone was a prick to Clay and he was right to split. Fine. I have a different opinion but we're starting to go in circles here.

No you and I have not gone in circles. I've barely discussed this with you. Not everyone was a prick, but enough were that I completely understand why he isn't commenting further here. So, now we know where each other stands. I surely hope that you don't ask for gifts like how it was done in here. I doubt you will ever get what you're looking for. Enough said from me on the subject.

Oh, I never ask for gifts. When it's leaked, it's leaked, and I listen like everybody else. 

He don't ah? I wouldn't share in here and make it known. People watch this place. He has plenty to lose if they go after him. Let me ask you, would you share with people who act like pricks? Whether something is bullshit or not, you don't say it like that. I would have been offended if asked like that. Also, one should never assume that they are going to be treated and the other party doesn't need to give a reason either. Clay asked for identification help and everyone started feeling entitled to what he had. If you have something like this, of course this is the place to come to find out exactly what you have. He did right by going to Jon and Jon only. He's one of the expert here, not all of us.

You have an opinion and are sticking to it. You think veryone was a prick to Clay and he was right to split. Fine. I have a different opinion but we're starting to go in circles here.

Somehow I've missed the posts where people demanded that Clay should share the tracks or calling him a liar. Maybe the administrators erased them.

From Custom Machine: "Ya know what, Klay?  This sounds like a total crock of bullshit." and that is just one and it was the first sentence of the post.

From Jason Pennick: "The real mystery to me is why the people who discover these rare outtakes feel the need to come on here and crow about it to get us all salivating, only to go on about how they're not going to share it to anyone."

About what jason wrote... Well, it's a valid question. We know that, almost surely, that for example AGD and Jon Stebbins have in their possession unleaked tracks. But we also know that those were shared in confidence with them and if those started to circulate sh*t would fly on their heads. So no one here will start to whine and demand 'generosity' from them. At least in teh open, god knows what happens in PMs. LOL

Now, Clay stumbled at those CDs and has nothing to lose if he shares. I'M NOT IN ANY WAY DEMANDING THAT HE SHOULD SHARE. But well, that's a valid question. You come here and describe those tracks... Whay don't you share? he could answer 'well, I don't feel like doing it because no one ever shared squat with me'. Fine. There's an aswer.

About what custom machine wrote... Well, it did sound like BS. But he was not called a liar or a troll.