Was "15 Big Ones" poorly mixed? Would a better mix signficantly improve it?

[petzounds29]

 It should  have been released as a double album.Round up the fifteen  best oldies and this is possible.Make the second disc a group of songs by the band with some of Brian's new songs some vault tracks like Good Timing and the best the other boys had and you would have a respectable  mid seventies  lp .I think this is what Dennis and Carl wanted and exactly  what was voted down.I think when this happened  it sit in some of the bad blood and apathy  that would eventually  DESTROY the group as we knew it.

[halblaineisgood]

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[bryand]

A number of years ago, alternate mixes of 15 Big Ones tracks started making rounds (most ended up on the "Alternate Dumb Angel" rarities set). Were these legitimate alternate mixes (or sourced from acetates) or was this fan made "outfakery"?

[halblaineisgood]

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[halblaineisgood]

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[D Cunningham]

15 Big Ones is near perfect and was a great success. There are certain Saturdays when it continues to bring the right mood for me.  It was Beach Boys Party a decade later…with a circus as metaphorical scene.  Rock and Roll Music was the ringmaster’s opening gambit.  Palisades Park was the circus-theme vamp.  Just Once in My Life was a parade of elephants.  Suzy Cincinnati was a bunch of clowns careening in little cars.  And so on and so on.  15BO was messy around all the edges, and inside too.  It was perfect for the time.  It sold like crazy.  Brian Wilson is a genius.

[Joel Goldenberg]

I remember reading in at least a couple of places that the backing vocals are "almost inaudible" on the original mix. So bring them up on a new mix.

But I don't think any new mix can improve Everyone's In Love With You, I find Mike's vocal too schmaltzy.

[DonnyL]

Definitely not 'poorly mixed' from a technical standpoint in my opinion.

I'll slightly revise that statement: technically the mix is adequate. Artistically, it isn't... and remember, Brian wanted all the vocals to be dry. The story goes (and I have no reason to doubt it) that the rest of the band, notably Carl, snuck into Brother Studio behind his back and added echo. Aren't you glad they did ?

Ha, yeh I was thinking about the dry sound. I feel like Brian intentionally was going for a dry sound since the Wild Honey LP. Of course it's easy to theorize that he was intentionally 'underproducing', but I think it had more to do with wanting a 'tougher' sound ... singing in a lower register, etc.

[DonnyL]

I think if a mix could be created for the rest of the album on a par with the alternate mix of R&R Music on MIC, it would turn 15 Big Ones into a classic Beach Boys summer album.  Hearing the Boyd/Linnett version of R&RM on MIC convinced me thsat 15BO was, simply, poorly mixed. 

you know, I probably came close to logging as many hours at Brother during 15BO than anybody then than Mankey or Moffitt; sometimes more than either of them, if I'd last through Brian in daylight than Dennis' sessions til dawn.  But let me tell you, between Brian's newfound enthusiasm, (having a studio of his own, just far enough from his bedroom), and the feeling amongst the rest of the band that this was a new beginning, it was an amazing time.

Poorly mixed, poorly conceived, poorly executed. Three strikes, yer out !

Mr. Doe certainly nailed the 2nd two points - poorly conceived, poorly executed.  You don't have to dig very hard for quotes by Dennis regarding the 'oldies' being a way of getting Brian back up to speed.  And while there was never any doubt some of these covers would make it to the album, where was the logic in choosing Blueberry Hill over The River Song?  It was right around there that enthusiasm waned, and a certain engineer who had grown contemptuous of them was left to mix AND master the album, which was grudgingly released. 

However, search out whatever original/re-mixes that you can find.  I STILL think my rough cassette mix of R&R Music rocks better than any I've heard...  My favorite memories are times like Roy Wood & Wizard coming by for Ding Dang, my ex-wife convincing Brian he could still call the Wrecking Crew, (& the until then immortal Steve Douglas), back to work for him, & bringing in The Double Rock Baptist Choir for Same Song.  Tis a shame, because they had an album or two in them then that could have garnered some attention

Great info man

[Bean Bag]

15 Big Ones and Love You (and Adult Child) are cut from the same "cloth."

I think... this cloth might be the LAST of the truly innovative and original output by the "genius" of Brian Wilson.  The last era where we could get something new and inventive out of Brian Wilson.  Something you would NEVER get from anybody else.

At some point in the 80s, I think, he's forever different.  Musically.  As if he no longer uses music to sort through his world, ideas, inventions and feelings.  Various cocktails of medication do the heavy lifting from here on out.  And if he does use and need music -- he's not tinkering with it.  It's rushed and familiar.  The quirks are fried.  Reflecting who he is today, I assume.  A reflex.  Sensitive but rushed.  Rushed out of the deep end -- never in the deep end -- a quick dip into the shallows for the familiar applause.

Even though there are many covers on 15BO, I still hear a free Brian Wilson.  Music and arrangements that ONLY the mind of Brian Wilson would conjure.  Covers -- but all originals.  Swirling in fear, desperation, joy and enthusiasm.  A fellow traveler, still.  And a damn interesting one.

There were many mini-moments that followed this era -- a track here and there -- but pretty much everything since 15BOs and Love You comes off as watered down to me.  Manufactured.  Either by Landy or the prescribed "normal" pills, I suppose.  Regardless of what you may think of 15 Big'Uns... since this era, most of Brian's work just feels shallow and rounded -- eased and stripped of innovation.  Recycled and rolling down the assembly line.  

[SMiLE Brian]

Bean, you are on the money!

[D Cunningham]

Nicely said, Bean B. 

I just listened to the whole album again.  A remarkable job of sequencing, by the way.
It was an album that was supposed to reintroduce Brian (and the Boys). And it did.
It begins with two tracks featuring Mike lead vocals with strong high harmony (classic).
Then comes an "introduction of the vocalists" as Mike-Al-Carl-Dennis-and finally Brian take pieces
of the lead in Had To Phone Ya.   (A song grown out of a Pet Sounds era track and
given a new production that equals the best of that era).  Oh baby.



   

[Bean Bag]

Thanks guys!

...and by cut from the same "cloth" I clearly mean "terry cloth"   

[Sheriff John Stone]

15 Big Ones is near perfect and was a great success. There are certain Saturdays when it continues to bring the right mood for me.  It was Beach Boys Party a decade later…with a circus as metaphorical scene.  Rock and Roll Music was the ringmaster’s opening gambit.  Palisades Park was the circus-theme vamp.  Just Once in My Life was a parade of elephants.  Suzy Cincinnati was a bunch of clowns careening in little cars.  And so on and so on.  15BO was messy around all the edges, and inside too.  It was perfect for the time.  It sold like crazy.  Brian Wilson is a genius.

Great description!

15 Big Ones does bring out certain emotions, in a way that is different than Today, Pet Sounds, Friends, and others. You'll be listening to it, and enjoying "It's OK", "Chapel Of Love", "Palisades Park", "Susie Cincinnati", "Back Home", and thinking, "Yes! Brian just has the touch. I can see why they wanted him back. It has that special feeling!" Then, a minute later, you're confounded by "Talk To Me", "TM Song", "A Casual Look", and "Blueberry Hill", and you wanna just shout, "Noooooooo Brian! Take those back. File 'em away. Try another oldie. You're gonna regret that one..." It still gets to me.

15 Big Ones was the first new BB album I purchased, so I guess it's sentimental value. And, I can still pull it off the shelf and enjoy it. But...but...it is still frustrating what a 1976 album could've been. They had so much material. So much. I still wonder how 5 brilliant musicians couldn't see the flaws and nip it in the bud.

[petzounds29]

  Greed by someone and their brother/manager ?

[kookadams]

Whats with all the negativity toward 15 big ones? It was a great album, their biggest selling studio album in the 70s and they were label mates w the Ramones in 76-7!

[Bean Bag]

I love 15BOs.  Sloppy.  Floppy.  Maybe even a little sweaty?  This is "Saturday" music.  Right around Miller time.  Yard work's done.  Folding chair on the lawn.  BBQ goin'.  And 15 Big Ones on the Hi-Fi.

Focusing on the imperfections -- and what this album isn't or wasn't -- is understandable.  But so utterly missing the point, I think.  It's flip-flops.  Not penny loafers or sneakers.  Flip-flops at most.  Shirt and shoes optional.

[Dancing Bear]

15 Big Ones is great if you want to study Brian's ressurgence as a producer in 75/76. Lots of quircks and special touches that no one else would have done.

But as a straight listen.... it's tough.

[Please delete my account]

  Folding chair on the lawn.  BBQ goin'.  And 15 Big Ones on the Hi-Fi.

"OK, first lot of burgers are ready, guys. Who wants one?

"Hey, where'd everyone go?"

[SMiLE Brian]

I love 15BOs.  Sloppy.  Floppy.  Maybe even a little sweaty?  This is "Saturday" music.  Right around Miller time.  Yard work's done.  Folding chair on the lawn.  BBQ goin'.  And 15 Big Ones on the Hi-Fi.

Focusing on the imperfections -- and what this album isn't or wasn't -- is understandable.  But so utterly missing the point, I think.  It's flip-flops.  Not penny loafers or sneakers.  Flip-flops at most.  Shirt and shoes optional.

can we have a listening party at your house?

[D Cunningham]

I like how the oldies are recast to great effect. Pulled into Brian’s swirl
in 1976, with all that electronic keyboard (humorous) bombast. Palisades Park,
Chapel of Love, Just Once in My Life and the others as if history were revised
and these were the originals from a moon of Jupiter back in those days.
A great gauze thrown over the remembered lot.  And yet, human voices.
Alas, the Beach Boys.

Yeah, I like it too, BB.

[Mikie]

So 15 Big Ones, Love You, and Adult Child were cut from the same cloth. And a gauze was thrown over them too. Sounds like they were bloody good albums......

[Niko]

Reading other fans thoughts on 15 Big Ones before actually listening to it, I was expecting something on-par with KTSA in terms of quality.

Nope! Not a bad album at all, but being right next to Love You  doesn't help it. LY is a masterpiece, 15BO is just an innocent, fun time.

[Joel Goldenberg]

For me, 15 BO is All Summer Long '76, and KTSA is All Summer Long '80. Just light fun, without the depth of a Today!

[Nicko1234]

For me, 15 BO is All Summer Long '76, and KTSA is All Summer Long '80. Just light fun, without the depth of a Today!

For me All Summer Long is the carefree soundtrack to a young man`s summer vacation.

15 Big Ones is the summer of a fat, unemployed guy who is having marital troubles and is looking back nostalgically because life hasn`t turned out how he planned.

KTSA is the summer a few years later when said fellow has divorced, been forced to move into his parents` basement and spends his time drinking excessively and masturbating furiously over pictures from his high school yearbook.