So, Ricky Gervais at the Golden Globes, or Mike Love at R&R HOF? 

Sort of on topic, and Rab you might like this too. A post by Adam Marsland from a few years back about the state of current discourse. I think I saw it on Facebook though I don’t know how because I’m not a friend of his. Might have been via Probyn Gregory. I still have it on my phone because I found it interesting.

Who is at fault for our problems? Well depending on one's point of view, it's the media, liberals, conservatives, immigrants, corporations, politicians, the "deep state," wealthy donors (often only on one side and not the other) etc. There are arguments for all these, some more valid than others.
But what's missing from that list? Us.
It's always someone else screwing things up. It's never us. We're the blameless victims. We don't need to change. The other guy does.
Self-reflection, fairness, rationality, knowledge, competence, inspiration, seeing our personal struggles in the context of the bigger picture.
When was the last time you ever heard anyone talk about any of these things?
 When do we say "you know, I see your point…do you see mine? We have to live together. How can we fix this problem? I'll give a little, and you give a little and we can make it work." When do we synthesize and move on to something new? That's not "socialism," people! That's CIVILIZATION.
We just keep digging in, more and more opinionated, less and less informed, with the cliff looming ever closer.
Now I just hear people repeating tired old memes and received wisdom, relentlessly focusing on one sliver of an issue that fits their prejudices and ignoring all other context. Now we've lost the ability to discern good information from bad, opinion from fact, wisdom from snake oil – because we bought into the idea that the world is all about us. So often we just believe what suits us and ignore the rest, plastering a label on someone to shut them out…especially the people that actually know what they're talking about.
It isn't just politics. It goes to all aspects of society – the idea that the individual is king and anything collective is secondary or even bad. Strong belief is the equal to knowledge. Everybody's a star, regardless of actual achievement or merit. Ignorance is admirable. Competence and ability and discernment are "elitist". That's where our culture is at now.
That kind of thinking rots the soul and stunts growth.
Are there larger forces driving us to this? Of course! Nearly all of our domestic media – irrespective of "bias" – continually focuses us on what drives our fears, makes us angry, sells ads, flatters our egos, providing convenient enemies to target, making the trivial things important and the important things trivial, burying context and fuller understanding.
Politicians, corporations, governments, rich donors, parties, etc. – sure, they all play a large role too. But all these folks saw the big picture that we refused to grapple with and took full advantage. When they deregulated the media, allowed more and more power to concentrate in fewer and fewer hands, dismantled the very regulations and safeguards that had been put in place to protect all of us, to a large degree we said "Sure! Sounds good! Government bad! Free market woo!" We rejected reality and balance and discernment and replaced it with nonsense and dumb slogans. We left the playing field. Of course we're stressed out and tired and overwhelmed -- but every time someone suggested a way out of that, we shut them down. We had the power and resources to solve every problem that faces us but collectively decided we'd rather point fingers at each other, refusing to compromise in any respect – or throw up our hands and not get involved at all. And while we were all busy squabbling, the people pulling the strings ate our lunch, and continue to do so.
That's not only on "them." That's also on US. We bought into the idea that we can have everything our own way, that a functioning society is something we can take from but don't need to contribute to or pay attention to, and that it's always someone else's fault. Those are ideas that are just nuts, ideas we should have started to leave behind when we were about 10. Sure, they were poured down our throats by people who wanted us busy and stressed out and stupid. But we didn't spit them out. We swallowed them. We're supposedly adults. We should have known better.
I've  witnessed kids in Laos and Cambodia and Indonesia fighting for the education and opportunities that we are in the process of squandering.
But until we accept responsibility for our own part of making things work, I do not believe anything is going to change – because even if we elect competent people we'll just keep indiscriminately tearing them down because they can't wave a magic wand and they aren't 100% what we personally want and we won't accept anything else. We'll keep empowering the people that flatter us the most and they'll keep taking us to the cleaners because we believed in the tooth fairy. If we don't get our hands dirty to bite the bullet and assess "the lesser of two evils" and then hold people accountable by the same standard of behavior WHETHER THEY'RE ON OUR TEAM OR NOT – what else would you expect?
But most of all we have to learn again to CUT EACH OTHER SOME SLACK. Whatever your evil villain might be, whether it's the government or bankers or the a-hole down the street, they are all people trying to get by in the world just like you are. Yeah, a lot of folks need a good slap upside the head - but refusing to acknowledge their own struggles and needs, while demanding they hear yours - just further feeds the sense of victimization and entitlement.

There is this cancerous idea in this day-and-age that no one can be swayed by rational discourse. We have been trained to automatically resort to name-calling, or ill-will wished upon someone. If we really think that shouting at someone like they're an animal pissing on a carpet is going to help move our society to a better place, we have completely lost touch with any sort of civility - civility that is needed for the good of society. Again I say, be the light in the darkness you see.

There is so much instant vitriol in society these days that it's no wonder people are so staunchly firm in their beliefs. Divisiveness feeds off this false idea that people with different viewpoints can't talk to one another in a civil manner.

Rab is definitely on to something. Speaking generally for a moment, I think we all need to try to be more forgiving and charitable in our initial judgement of other people's intentions.

That doesn't mean that I didn't for example find the post about the protests being racist deeply troubling (that said, though this is probably not the place for it, there is a legitimate and nuanced discussion to be had about *some* people's genuine fears, justified or not, that grew out of those protests...such a discussion may or may not soften such reactionary points of view, but one thing for sure is that the approach of the last few years sure isn't working. This discussion is starting to remind me of one I had on another forum about sports players taking 'The Knee', if anyone wants to waste their time, it is an interesting presentation of different viewpoints, which remained largely civil considering this is the internet http://www.onlybarnet.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15256).

I was just expressing my amusement that the name has been as good as spoken anyway.

It's patently clear that actual names can't be named at this juncture.

I cannot see how it would make a difference to anything at this point ?  
(not that I am asking anyone to name names)

Rab makes good points The guy that befriended KKK members? Daryl Davis, he's a musician too. What a man. He has certainly seen "a thing or two".

https://www.ted.com/talks/daryl_davis_what_do_you_do_when_someone_just_doesn_t_like_you/transcript?language=en

Yes I would be skeptical of those China numbers.

The thing with Trump, like Boris Johnson in UK, is that they both were able to jump the queue as it were and get the best preemptive treatment before their cases developed. Sadly that cannot be available to everyone, but I fear their high profile recoveries downplayed some people's sense of how serious the virus can be, unless they have first or second hand experience of it.

From the UK - while I'm no doubt in your ballpark of the argument, it's only fair (to the truth, whatever that is these days) to point out that the British PM did not receive any preferential treatment, in fact (as so often in this crisis) was slow off the mark to get himself into a hospital ward. Once there, he had oxygen but, as far as we know, no special drugs (unlike DT). He went back to work far too early in the opinion of some, who felt he may have suffered some short term memory loss. Secondly, BJ's near-death experience with Covid actually sharpened the UK population's understanding of it, not the reverse. And I'm not a fan (of either man). Since then, the mostly very aware UK population has been rather let down by the indecisiveness of its leaders (in England, at least).... but you certainly wouldn't get a carefree election rally happening here.

Fair points. I would only contend that, even if the PM was slow getting into hospital, others had to wait weeks from diagnosis to being considered ill enough to be accepted into hospital, and for some it was sadly too late.

Sorry to hear that Billy. I know of other people that have also suffered terrible consequences.

The thing with Trump, like Boris Johnson in UK, is that they both were able to jump the queue as it were and get the best preemptive treatment before their cases developed. Sadly that cannot be available to everyone, but I fear their high profile recoveries downplayed some people's sense of how serious the virus can be, unless they have first or second hand experience of it.

For all my other musical 'heroes' that have supported the politics of hatred, divide, racism and suppression of freedoms (liberals), I'm glad that the Beach Boys band name is being represented on the right side of history.    Congrats to Mike.   Remember, the thoughts shared on these boards are not as widespread as you'd like to believe.   Americans in the vast majority of states, cities and counties elected Trump as our President because he stood for the political decisions/directions we so desired after being on the brink of a civil war with President Obama.   The seething anger of racism generated by that man's words and actions were unlike anything this country had saw, but the media and these boards rarely bothered to notice or report.  

Plenty of hatred, division and racism to be found on both sides of this crippling culture war. I don't doubt that you have a point but I think people need to call out both sides otherwise division will continue to reign supreme at everyone's collective expense.

Obama cannot be beyond criticism, but if the US was on the brink of civil war after the Obama years, goodness knows where it is at now.

Brian introduced "Sail on Sailor" as something like "not a very good song, but we're gonna do it anyway." I think that sentiment comes not from Brian outright hating the song, but years and decades of bulls**t attached to the song and that era, inner band politics, fading success on the charts, etc.

In this particular case, based on what has been said over the years, it also seems that this has a lot to do with the him just really not being keen on the lyrics.
I forget what he said about it during the Warmth of the Sun podcase series, but I think he had good things to say about is musically.

On this topic, I always thought Mike sounds quite self-conscious/doubtful in the way he introduces Isn't It Time on the 50th live album

Sweet vindication for me and OSD!

Why not bitter or sour vindication ?

 You would enjoy being vindicated even if it means we all miss out ?

I’m sure you would prefer we don’t miss out, but this attitude suggests otherwise.

As far as I can tell there is no evidence that Mike has a problem with Dennis material.

This would only be true if there was no "evidence" that is not widely known to the public. I doubt many here would think that's the case.

Nice to see you here again this Sunday Jon.
Are you speaking in more general terms or specifically in relation to Dennis material that may form a part of a Feel Flows set?

I don’t find it difficult to believe that he would have a problem with some Dennis material in general but if the latter this seems like a new development.

That would be a tremendous shame, and of course so frustrating when they had it in mind to get it right the first time.

In this case I suppose the “revamped” version would still be somewhat worthwhile. The question is what would happen to this Dennis material and similar. Would it find its way out on a grey label release or locked away in the vault forever?

How much damage could the “wrong people” do to material from this era?

Great to hear from Jon and Howie this Sunday, albeit concerning. How anyone can question the past records and judgement of Alan Boyd, Mark L, Howie and Jon (not sure the level of involvement from Jon on this particular set) is be strange to me at least.

Given recent rumblings, I get the sense we are reaching make or break behind the scenes. Not surprising I guess now we are approaching the final quarter of the year.

Hi Wirestone, what you wrote wasn’t too bad, though I don’t think anyone wanted to make you feel guilty or thinks you should.
Nonetheless to come back on to deliver this friendly message is a measure of the decency we’ve seen from you on these boards over the years.

I would generally agree with Donny that I prefer threads to follow an organic path and flow freely into any related tangents, unless things go way off topic, rather than separating those out into  separate threads, but it looks like we might be in a minority. But if the function of this thread is just to keep the Feel Flows release on the agenda, until there is new news, what more can we do here than go round in circles with the same group of voices just saying we would like to see it released?

That’s how I felt too; looks like I picked the wrong day to have a dr appointment

Hey Billy, your health and wellbeing must always be priority!

*misplaced.

I suggested to AGD that Phil Cohen's generally pessimistic outlook when it comes to archival releases might on this occasion not be displaced. He said he thought not. But he also said listen to Howie and Jon S. And Howie and Jon S sounded fairly pessimistic to me.

To get this somewhat back on-topic, isn't it interesting to think about how much more fun and interesting and exciting it would be if, say, a set and track listing had been announced by now and we were having fun speculating about the contents of the set?

Could your source reveal any small details about track listing? E.g. I think it was Adam Marsland who, in the run up to Smile Sessions, revealed that Alan Boyd had let him know of a then unrevealed "woah" inclusion in that set. It turned out to be the Wild Honey era Surf's Up recording if I recall.

I would generally agree with Donny that I prefer threads to follow an organic path and flow freely into any related tangents, unless things go way off topic, rather than separating those out into  separate threads, but it looks like we might be in a minority. But if the function of this thread is just to keep the Feel Flows release on the agenda, until there is new news, what more can we do here than go round in circles with the same group of voices just saying we would like to see it released?

The issue of what artists make via streaming and whether streaming is "supporting" the artist does actually still have NOTHING to do with THIS PARTICULAR case with the issue of the current non-release of "Feel Flows."

I don't think that anyone thinks that, more of a case of conversation following a natural course and veering into related areas. The line at which something crosses from on topic to off topic is a blurry one. Surely no one here will take their eye off the overarching current concern of the Feel Flows box.

Thanks Billy. I of course also stream the physical product that I do buy.

And very much enjoyable cover. Your sound is very much suited to songs from the Love You era.

Fingers crossed for Feel Flows.

It is not necessarily unreasonable to be a little uncomfortable with and critical of the credit and you can voice that if that is your feeling.

It just seems like such a small detail as far as the release itself goes. Why should your issue with it be so great that you are *proud* not to pay for the set at all? Your disrespect for one name, basically in the form of a footnote, outweighs your respect for all the other people credited on the set including those that worked on it directly? Brian and Melinda Wilson themselves were seemingly indifferent to the credit being given, and they're the ones apparently being targeted.

GF himself said that he wishes it were not the case that the credits put him off, and in the end paid for it anyway...so I guess in the end he came around to thinking that it wasn't such a big deal.

So if you know that Guitarfool came around to regretting his stance about the credit, why do you keep posting about it? You say his action was petty, but then in your next post you admit that he himself basically regretted his action. So what the hell is the point of calling his action “petty” two years after the fact? Keep in mind this incident happened two years ago and it literally has no bearing on this release.

Quite frankly I’m sick of this topic being brought up again and again. For whatever reason certain people from EH keep bringing it up, as if they enjoy being proven wrong time and time again and enjoy unfortunate incidents being dredged up from the past. This went from “Guitarfool illegally downloaded music” (which was was easily proven wrong by doing this thing called research) to “guitarfool acted petty” (which you admit that Guitarfool basically regretted his action anyways)  - how about we just stop trying to fling mud at Guitarfool about an incident that took place two years ago that has nothing to do with this thread?

I only started commenting on the topic once several others had already resurrected it. I just wanted to offer an opinion as someone who isn't involved in the personal disputes; note I also said it was wrong for GF's actions to be misrepresented. I will also add that we could all be less petty about things.

I agree that we don't need to go on about it, and that it is not relevant to this project.

Great to hear from Howie again.
Fingers still crossed.

It is not necessarily unreasonable to be a little uncomfortable with and critical of the credit and you can voice that if that is your feeling.

It just seems like such a small detail as far as the release itself goes. Why should your issue with it be so great that you are *proud* not to pay for the set at all? Your disrespect for one name, basically in the form of a footnote, outweighs your respect for all the other people credited on the set including those that worked on it directly? Brian and Melinda Wilson themselves were seemingly indifferent to the credit being given, and they're the ones apparently being targeted.

GF himself said that he wishes it were not the case that the credits put him off, and in the end paid for it anyway...so I guess in the end he came around to thinking that it wasn't such a big deal.