[is]

Thanks HeyJude. I don't think this particular discussion should be limited to the audiophile domain.

In the case of Marcella, the mastering (well mixing really, though we do not know the stage at which the EQ decisions in question were made) is more than minutiae given the "product" is the new mix.

I take your point about Feel Flows...I'd be happy to say that Feel Flows is great overall, a thrill to finally see, say, Awake finally get a proper release, whilst adding that I'd enjoy it that 5% more if they toned down the shrillness on that particular track a little, then leave it at that and see what other's think...and all the better if we are lucky enough to see Mark or Howie jump in to either explain why they disagree with such assessments, explain their approach, or at least take the feedback onboard for future opinions like this are widespread.

I also think that in making a point of calling out the original mixes and masters, Howie himself does elevate the topic to higher importance than mere minutiae.

As I suggested over at Endless Harmony, things did spiral into a frenzy over the weekend. However it is a shame that legitimate discussion around the creative direction of recent releases has been undermined as a result of that frenzy.

I like that the new version of Marcella reveals new details/parts that were either absent from or mixed down within the original release. I also like that it rocks a more. But I sympathize and to some extent agree with the view that the high end has been overhyped somewhat.

More generally, we should also be able to discuss the relative merits of say how the Sunshine Tomorrow release "sounds" compared to Feel Flows, especially as critics as well as fanatics have commented on apparently negative aspects of the latter: https://www.pastemagazine.com/music/record-time-new-notable-vinyl-releases-november-20-4/#the-beach-boys-feel-flows-the-sunflower-surf-s-up-sessions-1969-1971-. These discussions are fun when done properly and I would have been very interested to hear what Howie thinks of the credible aspects of what has been argued over the last few days.

It should also be noted that those making a fuss over at Endless Harmony are not all old timer fans. At least one is a young fan who may come off a little brash at times but also offers a fresh and important enthusiasm to proceedings.

Yes hard to see how the 1996 stereo mix of Pet Sounds could be improved upon.

I wonder why Let Us Go On This Way gets a new mix but The Night Was So Young doesn't.

I actually thought the casting of Mike Love was very good in An American Family, perhaps better (though the movie overall is infinitely worse).

Thanks Guitarfool

I might have an answer to an 11-year old question 

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,9940.msg175341.html#msg175341

[guitarfool, karmafrog]

I've not had a chance to watch this properly yet.
But this chap does pop up on my youtube now and again and has done some pretty interesting videos from what I have seen in the past.
From skimming through, this touches on some things that guitarfool, karmafrog and others have talked about through the years.
I think it could spark some good discussion here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEac2AQEsC8

How could I miss out Joshilyn

I've not had a chance to watch this properly yet.
But this chap does pop up on my youtube now and again and has done some pretty interesting videos from what I have seen in the past.
From skimming through, this touches on some things that guitarfool, karmafrog and others have talked about through the years.
I think it could spark some good discussion here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEac2AQEsC8

Kasey M was a guest on the Brian track, whereas Mike and Bruce are the guests on the LoCash track.

Brian has done some great guest spots of course. I really liked Dirty Computer.

Like with most things we discuss, we sometimes trick ourselves into thinking there are only two sides: left/right, liberal/conservative, Brian/Mike.  But the real world is nuanced and layered, like onions and ogres.  Binary Syndrome, some call it.

Yep

'If only there were someone who Brian trusted enough to tell him when a line wasn't perfect and when it was, and got him to keep working on it until it was perfect'

Anyone got Steve Levine's phone number?

See also story of Someone To Watch Over me in the I Am Brian Wilson book. Ray L seems to be our guy.

Very good.

Is there a "real" missing somewhere near the bottom?

Nice.
I remember The Like in I Love You being played in a Starbucks in Japan. My one and only visit to the country back in 2011.

Another vote in defense of Bob Dylan over here.

It Ain't Me Babe and Forever Young are but two examples of iconic vocal performances on popular record.

My highest hope for this is I can see Brian doing something cool arrangement or presentation wise with the deeper cuts included in the tracklist.

To be more "demanding", I would have preferred similar but with vocals (yes that would significantly change the concept). Even a few of the guys e.g. Brian, Al, Matt, Darian and someone on bass duties. Mike Love perhaps ha...obviously a huge can of worms. Brian can do decent bass, but I prefer him at least in the middle of the range.

So is it a myth/fabrication that it is possible to apply the correct colour based on the shade of grey in the original film?

Yup appreciate that the performance and the mix are somewhat separate entities. Just more curious about the nerdy stuff.

I would also say that there is probably less room to blame "bad TV mixing" on this CNN gig, because unlike some deals where a band appears on a TV show specifically for TV (e.g. a talk show or something), on this July 4th thing, CNN was mostly just tapping into live audio and video feeds from various regular concerts, almost surely using the in-house audio feed.

CNN or other network engineers working with live feeds are not balancing individual instrument and vocal tracks on their boards and creating another mix when they do a live feed like this one in Ft Lauderdale. The mix is usually taken direct from the in-house feed from the band's or the venue's board going to the audience. If a separate mix is done for the broadcast remote, it's not done by the television crew tapping into the feed. Whatever balancing issues were happening were happening at the board, at the venue. Why they were so off in some cases, like the 2nd supporting guitar being too hot in the mix of WIBN's intro whereas the lead 1st part was buried...who knows.

Even if CNN/network engineers are only being provided with some form of stereo/2 channel out from the board, is it conceivable that it is a different mix to the front of house mix? Maybe whoever was working the board was focused on that and the TV feed was an afterthought/set and forget situation.

Stephen
To what extent is the integrity of the properly decoded virtual surround versions at risk of being undermined by less than ideal acoustic conditions in the home ? (For example, imaging problems caused by undesirable reflections from surfaces, perhaps due to one loudspeaker being located closer to a wall than the other etc)?

Yep, although:

Brian also went hardcore on the '69-'71 era in a way he hasn't anywhere else.
Depending on the day, the dude remembers -- him discussing the genesis "Marcella" was a pinch-me moment.

On the one hand, I'm sure someone could point out that the band has looked like this for over 20 years now, so why all of a sudden make a big deal about it?

Could it also be because...Twitter?  haha

Thanks for reports.
Any indication it might make it to other upcoming festivals?
Am hoping they have submitted to TIFF

Are we assuming that Bruce’s comment was meant as a kind of criticism? He might have meant it more in the sense that Brian Wilson’s greatness did not end with Good Vibrations.

It’s a bit of a tricky topic because, as has correctly been pointed out, it is somewhat subjective. But I agree Bruce’s position is at least defensible. Along with pretty much everyone here, anyone that hears the song (or record even might be a more appropriate term) agrees that is a great in that truly transcendent sense. I could name many subsequent songs that move me at least as much (ADITLOAT is a good example, I’ll always contend that it has the superior tag, minority opinion though that might be, some nice looking treats to come on Feel Flows there too), but I wouldn’t necessarily recommend them to general music fans before Til I Die.

Still I Dream Of It is moving, beautiful in its pure yearning etc, but it’s not the complete production that would have the same universal appeal in quite the same way, in my opinion.

I’m not sure I’ve ever even seen Bruce mention something like I Write The Songs in the same sentence as Til I Die so he seems to have some humility in that sense.

[I don't deserve what I have]

I am not sure the song is excusing the bad behaviour described in the verses.

Even if there is some suggestion in the chorus that his love for her makes him worthy of at least some redemption, I don't hear many excuses in the following:

Sometimes I have a weird way of showing my love...
I treat her so mean I don't deserve what I have...
When I look at other girls it must kill her inside
But it'd be another story if she looked at the guys

Now I know it is, at least ostensibly, about a car, but what could you read into this?
"Betsy was a lady and that she will remain
Betsy took some beatings but she never once complained" Is the suggestion that "real" ladies don't complain about beatings? (probably not)

I would say You Still Believe In Me has a vaguely similar theme to She Knows Me Too Well also.

Does anyone have a Amazon Canada link for the 5 disc set?

Any good?

https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B095L2LGJS/ref=sr_1_5?crid=2WRZ0NOUIWJ74&dchild=1&keywords=beach+boys+feel+flows&qid=1622733389&sprefix=feel+flows%2Caps%2C255&sr=8-5

I guess there is no reason to assume that someone would be somehow less coherent when mentally unwell or going through a low period.