The Smiley Smile Message Board

Come the beginning of November, we will have  a chance to hear the 66 and 2004 versions of SMiLE side by side and whilst accepting the incomplete nature of 66 SMiLE, I was wondering if peeps here have any views (admittedly we haven't heard TSS yet) about whether the new box set will improve or harm the reputation of the 2004 version.

Will SMiLEaholics like us view the two "albums" differently to critics and Joe Public (and people like Leila!!) - will we see 2004 as the final and better word on the legendary lost album, will we see it as two different pieces of work or will TSS blow BWPS out of the water?

Will the fly-ins do harm to TSS and the legacy of 66/67?

On the other hand will BWPS do harm to the originall recordings?

Answers on a surfboard please.

A $6,000 surf board?   ;D

I can't see BWPS's rep being hurt at all. The two releases should complement each other; and I think Alan and Mark have striven to ensure that happens by following the BWPS template.

I'm hoping that TSS gets album-of-the-year type awards a-plenty, as (BWP)Smile(SESSiONS) would then surely be the only album in history to get such awards twice, almost five decades apart, for different recordings of mostly the same material, produced (at least nominally) by the same guy, featuring the same vocalist but performed by different acts.

Wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey stuff, almost…

Nice one J

Just read that back and I was clearly waffling bollocks. What I meant was more along the lines of:

I'm hoping that TSS gets album-of-the-year type awards a-plenty, as (BWP)Smile(SESSiONS) would then surely be the only album in history to get such an award twice, in two different decades, for mostly the same material recorded at sessions almost five decades apart for different projects, produced (at least nominally) by the same guy, featuring the same vocalist but performed by different acts and getting its (nominal) premiere release.

Surely someone can phrase it better than what I just did(n't)?   :lol

I think it will be an interesting dynamic mostly because more folks I've encountered outside the BB's fan world have been introduced to Smile through BWPS, and found joy and inspiration in the music through that album and the various live shows, which were amazing. Not that it matters either way because it's a question of the same music and same compositions, but I don't know how many people who bought BWPS originally knew a lot of the history behind Smile, apart from some of the mythology.

I think this was touched on back at the end of March in this thread :
http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,10107.0.html

If anything, I think that the success of BWPS helped push the release of the 60s Smile. I think the audio for BWPS will be forgotten, but the live shows were well worth it, perhaps even the video of the show is great to have along with the documentary.

It will certainly be less singular, less unique. The mystery that fed its appearance will be reduced or eliminated.

That being said, it will still be the only version of the material that's in a truly finished (albeit, finished in 2003) form. That is, more or less complete lyrics and backing vocals. I could see some people seeking it out if their first exposure to the material is through TSS. "How did he finish it up?" they might wonder.

But sure, I would think that it will recede in importance a bit. And I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, especially since Brian has followed it up with some good solo records and touring.

Bonus question: Do you think we'll see a reissued version of BWPS in the next couple of years? It would be interesting ...

I think BWPS will be fine, The SMiLE Sessions might actually get some people curious enough to buy it.

BWPS won't suffer at all. It's a typical Smile-related question that could only come up with us Brian Wilson patients.

Imagine: someone aged 20 bought BWPS because of Robert Christgau's review, or the Pitchfork stats. Hugely enjoy it.

And discover its roots 7 years later on a deluxe box set.

I can't think of a comparable journey in all of pop. Yes, there are so many 'early demos' sets, or 'originally planned thus but later changed for release'-albums out there - but this is a different kettle of fish.

Rather unique.

If I wasn't a big fan I don't think Brian as a solo artist would mean much to me. I liked seeing BWPS live and the album is good, but why would anyone want to hear Brian sing it with his modern voice compared to him and The Beach Boys in their prime?

Err - cos its complete and finished

i think they'll go hand in hand.  i didn't reaally like all of BWPS till i heard the originals.  but then there's still stuff in BWPS that i prefer over the originals cause it's finished.

it's an ideal situation for Smile lovers, there would be a real gap if the Smile sessions had been released years ago & Brian had never completed and recorded it. It's yet to be seen how satisfyingly the Sessions will fit together and play as an album. For lovers of Smile they'll need to have both.

Personally I love BWPS and even like hearing Brian's older voice singing, it injects pathos into the story of Smile, you see more of the struggle around the Smile album and Brian reconnecting with this pivotal album in his career.

The two albums need each other, which album is the child that is the father of the man?

I feel pretty much the same way about BWPS. Loved the live performances, certainly two of the most amazing concerts I've ever been to.

Personally I hope that Smiley Smile's reputation isn't going to suffer in the light of the Smile Sessions but it's probably even going to be rediscovered as a cult album, who knows...

It already is a cult album?

I'll put my BWPS album inside the SMILE box.

The complete package  ;)

BWPS will certainly get dusted off and played about 10 billion more times than it already has been played or will ever have been played. And it will likely continue to be played for eternity, either side by side with the Smile Sessions or on it's own.

Brian's done damn well for himself!

Nice and  8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

Yeah if Smiley Smile gets rediscovered it'll stop being a cult album.

As I've mentioned before with the release of "The Smile Sessions" it should make a us aware of what a crucial part of the SMiLE puzzle BWPS is.  I mean let's be honest here: It will forever be the only complete rendering of the SMiLE music available.  There is obviously no way to cull a completed SMiLE album from the original tapes so Brian's presentation of the material is probably going to be our only insight as to what finished versions of these tracks could sound like.

I would think it would be worthwhile sometime after 11/1 for someone to post a poll on the forums and gauge what everyone considers to be "SMiLE" to them.  BWPS or the assembly of the original tapes as produced by Mark Linett and company.  I think I know which way the meter is going to go but it would be worth a poll nonetheless.

Pointless, poll!! This had been debated millions of times*

*slight over exaggeration.

Yeah but not in this sense.  I mean you will now have two viable products in your hand that have been given the blessing of Brian Wilson as to be representations of the SMiLE music.  It would be interesting from my standpoint anyhow as to which one everyone prefers.

i think it'd need to be a few years after the event to get an accurate gauge. It was interesting to hear the recent Mark Linnet interview in that he made it pretty clear how big a role BWPS played in being able to put together a credible SMiLE from the existing tapes. Personally I'm a huge fan of BWPS and find that Brian's later vocals give the finished work an extra sense of depth of history and a taste of the suffering and triumph that is around SMiLE. I love listening to that album as Brian would say "it blows my mind".

I don't think anything will happen to its reputation per se, but personally I don't really see myself listening to it again.

Q: What will happen to BWPS's reputation after 1st November?

A: Nothing.

Why do people keep mentioning my name in reference to the new box set? I don't even own it yet. But I do have the 2 disc version and have listened to it a few times. I must admit that I wind up missing vocal sections in most of the songs. I didn't realize how good those parts really are!

I have a feeling you changed your name just so you could keep on making that joke.

BWPS still has its worth, I'd say. In Blue Hawaii, Song for Children, Roll Plymouth Rock, On a Holiday... can't get those anywhere else. and vocals recorded for the songs as opposed to fly-ins. maybe the BWPS "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow" will sound better. s.hi.t won a grammy.

Those tracks are pretty much the only reason I revisit BWPS from time to time.

I find BWPS rising in my estimation, frankly. It just sounds so much more coherent and thought-through ... it is really, whatever its origins, a single piece.

TSS are a glorious jumble.

Well said.   :)

 The release of the SMILE Sessions can only add to the genius legacy of Brian Wilson.  The more we hear, the better it gets!

The Smile Sessions release only strengthens the existence of BWPS.  The two go hand in hand perfectly in my view.  The Smile Sessions are just that...a presentation of those magical sessions that happened all those years ago...some songs were finished....some weren't.  BWPS was Brian and Van Dyke bringing the album past the finish line finally after all those years.  Hopefully this will get more people to take a look at BWPS...and I think it will.

Couldn't agree more.  TSS is choppy, with so many incredible individual moments.  BWPS has a really nice flow and a cohesive feel to it.

I haven't heard TSS yet but I have some feel for what is on there (and am familiar with some of the material).

I have a feeling it may end up with people having a whole new level of respect for Brian & co., that they were able to piece together such a coherent and consistantly high quality piece of music (BWPS) from a fragmented jumble of weird genius.

People will undoubtedly prefer some of the material that is about to be unleashed. But essentially BWPS is what it has always been....Brian coming back to complete a version of SMiLE in 2003/2004. It's still a great listen, it still has it's place in the SMiLE jigsaw puzzle.

I wouldn't say Disc 1 is choppy at all - and it's far better than BWPS IMO.

Well you'd be wrong then wouldn't you?!

Not really. The Smile Sessions is The Beach Boys anno 1967 with a young Brian Wilson, still having a pristine voice.
BWPS is an old man with a heavily deteriorated voice, together with a band trying to sound like The Beach Boys anno 67.

I love them both! :p :p

It doesn't bother you at all that there are obviously missing vocals on some songs and the songs aren't as tied together as Brian fully realized on BWPS?  


Wow, seriously?

BWPS has nothing to do with vanity.  No one's trying to sound like anybody on BWPS.  That was the music written, the band is playing what was written by Brian decades ago.  Period.  There isn't anyone trying to recapture anything or copy anything for the sake of duping or tricking an audience thinking it was The Beach Boys in 1967.   BWPS was Brian finally completing his masterpiece.  The only way to do that was to finish what he had started.  If you can't get past Brian voice, your loss...but don't drag the entire project through the mud just because Brian isn't 24 anymore.  

It doesn't really bother me that it is 'missing' vocals, no. This is how we have heard the Smile material up until 2004, so to me it sounds worse adding lyrics and such almost 40 years after. The Smile Sessions from the 60s is to me authentic, and I also prefer the fidelity of those old recordings. I also find BWPS production wise to be a little too slick sounding, and I'm not a fan of the use of a Kurzweil harpsichord samples either.





Um, no I think you are wrong there, I do think The Wondermints are trying to sound like the Beach Boys anno the 60s, because they are in fact Brian's backing band. I'm not claiming they are trying to fool anyone by being Beach Boys imposers or anything, but I would say trying to vocally sound like the Beach Boys would be a goal anyhow. I'm glad Brian did 'finish' Smile in 2004, because it quite obviously paved the way for this glorious 2011 release, but like I said, to me BWPS, was and is redundant.

doublepost

I love them both too!!  When I say "choppy" I don't mean that as an insult.  The version represented on TSS is by definition an unfinished album.  It's been put together from a variety of sources, vocals have been flown in from other takes and demos.  I love the original voices, the 60s style of recording and instrumentation, Linnet has done a great job here - with what is available.

Smile live in London in February 2004 was the highlight of my musical life. The DVD or CD captures some of it, but it's just not the same. The Smile Sessions is the base material for Smile 2004.  It all hangs together....but there is nothing in my musical experience like that series of shows in London...

So basically, you're saying that you've simply gotten so used to listening to the bootlegged version of SMiLE--which contained songs that had no vocals at all that any other version is basically unacceptable?  You're satisfied with the instrumental tracks, "Song for Children" and "Child Is Father Of The Man?"  It's great that you really enjoy those recordings as they were but I don't think the aesthetics of these recordings are anything to judge the musical content by.  The quality of a song isn't going to be automatically better over something recorded in 2004 just because it was recorded on analog in th 60's.  That still doesn't fix the problem that the song is unfinished. 


How else would you expect the Wondermints to sound?  They are singing the exact same parts as Mike, Carl, Dennis, Al and Bruce sang them all those years before.  The notes are exactly the same...of course they're going to sound like the original arrangements.  To me, none of the voices even come close to any of th eoriginal Beach Boys.  They were all assigned the same vocal parts that Brian worked with...so there wasn't going to be a change in vocal parts.   I don't hear any comparison at all...these are just a group of people singing Brian's parts. and the two are not exchangable..  I cannot listen to the 2004 version of "Our Prayer" at all...it just doesn't cut it for me.  The vocal blend isn't there.  The original version is simply heaven.  They are the same notes...but a whole batch of different voices, completely.  Sorry, I don't see them trying to BE anyone.  If they did....many people here would be able to chuck all their original versions of these songs in favor the versions found on BWPS and I don't think anyone (including me) is doing that.   

BWPS shouldn't really offend anyone because Brian re-recorded the songs.  It'd be one thing if he bastardized the recordings by recording new vocals over the old backing tracks.  That would've been awful.  But that didn't happen.  What he did with BWPS was appropriate.  He finished what he had started.

That's MHO too, absolutely. The choppiness is especially notable on the second movement. It doesn't flow anywhere as good as on BWPS. Each song sounds a hundred times better on TSS, but it just doesn't flow.

I had a dream last night that Jimi Hendrix was at Monterey playing a set and while his guitar was on fire he said to the crowd, "you'll never hear BWPS again!" :lol :lol

BWPS will be seen as the 'clean', finished version of the now released Beach Boys's SMiLE.
It will always be the big brother, the real 'finished' deal.
Another question would be: What will happen to SMiLE's reputation as the most famous unreleased album after 1st November?
A lot of speculations can be buried now, what sensational unbooted stuff is still sleeping in the vaults, if acetates could give new insights etc.
The boxset will arrive today, what counts for me are the sessions and snippets, but not the so called finished album. I always said the unfinished SMiLE album with all the myths around it and stunning unreleased music, some of it available on bootlegs, other parts in the imagination of music freaks is the best promotion a group could hope for.

:lol

Dude...glad you enjoy the humour. I guess want I want to say is that BWPS and TSS are equally important to us 'geek' fans, to the average layman SMiLE refers to the Beach Boys, whether it came out in 1967 or 2011. For the average layman, BWPS would not be quite the same thing because it's not the Beach Boys.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I'm used to CIFOTM and Look without vocals - all though the former does have some amazing backing vocals. I'm not saying that any other version is unacceptable, I'm just saying that they are redundant - not my cup of tea. I'm not sure what you have heard of bootlegs - or in fact the new Smile Sessions, but I do think that you most definitely can judge the musical content by it. To me CD1 of TSS flows more than nice enough, and the fidelity is great.




First off, I completely agree with Peter. All though I didn't see it live in London, I did see it in Norway, and that was a near out-of-body-experience. That concert was definitely one of the highlights in my concert-going life (Seeing GNR in 1991 is another).
Now, BWPS does not offend me, but like you say the Wondermints does not sound like the BB, because the BBs blend/voices are naturally unique. So in the same way that you can't listen to BWPS' 'Prayer', I'm having trouble listening to the album as a whole due to the 'problems' I have mentioned above (Brian's voice, the Wondermints not sounding enough like the BB, Harpsichord, etc). I just prefer the original sessions, that's all - even if they are incomplete. And like I said, listening through CD1 on TSS, did not feel choppy to me at all.


Oh and, John, haha! :D

I can play the role of Joe Public since I heard BWPS before I heard any of the bootlegs or TSS.

I still prefer BWPS because it's what I'm used to. I do recognize the superiority of the original vocals and how shot Brians voice was in 2004.

There's a couple of things on BWPS that are difficult to live without for me: The first 2 seconds of H&V "brrrrr", the power of "Brother Joe" in Surf's up, the great vocals and instrumentation in the "chorus" of wonderful......

It's actually "Brother John"

Are you sleeping Brother John, which obviously tranlates as....

Frère Jacques, frère Jacques,
Dormez-vous? Dormez-vous?

Children's song.

I don't know what the box will do to the reputation of BWPS, but sales should see an increase. As I was reading the book in the box last night, nearly every essay mentions BWPS. If I had not heard it yet, that book would leave me very curious. I realize that there are probably not an overwhelming number of people who bought the box, read all the essays and don't have BWPS, but it is feasible, especially if someone's interest in Smile or The Beach Boys picked up after 2004. All of the writers did a great job of respecting BWPS for what it is.

I see no reason why the two cannot go hand in hand, especially with the live Smile DVD out there too.  When BWPS was fresh I always told people also to check out the original sessions to compare, to see how full the conception already was in 1966-67, unfinished though it was.  And now it is assembled nicely, in good fidelity, for that A-B comparison.
And anyone who is put off by the BWPS CD can appreciate Smile as a finished concert piece, as performed on the DVD.

1. BWPS' reputation will only increase. The fact that Brian did it at all, the fact that both the shows and the record are great achievements in their own right, and the fact that it was the first time that Smile was presented as a totality, a coherent operetta, if you will. Just read Bob Christgau's review of it and you know what I mean.

2. I think it is not far from the truth that, had BWPS been less of a success, both musically and in terms of people attending the shows and buying the CD, the box we have today simply wouldn't be there. So BWPS paved the way for TSS.

For this listener, BWPS the record and BWPS live hang beautifully together with TSS. It is utterly foolish to discard BWPS because now we have the 'real thing'. BWPS is an artist reclaiming his own legacy, not some forgery, folks.

Couldn't have said it better myself HD

Thank you Desmondo, I really appreciate your words.

On the subject of mishearing lyrics, there was a guy who posted shortly after the leak of Midnight's Another Day asking:

What's with that line; A fly without the wings?

No disrespect to the poster as we've all done it but it cracks me up every time I hear the song.

As someone whose first exposure to Smile was through BWPS, I think they compliment each other perfectly.

What I like so much about the two releases is that they don't really pretend to be the other. TSS embraces its fragmentary nature, taking more time to highlight the individual pieces; BWPS does this less, instead embracing the fact that it is coherent throughout. So, when I want to hear specific fragments or songs, I go through the Beach Boys' versions pulled from CD1. And when I want to hear a full, cohesive album, BWPS does the trick.

Now having heard the complete 2 LP set (of both) I must say BWPS was a good thing. If it helped bring about what we have got this week it's damn great. I loved seeing the live show too. Still I am a Beach Boys fan and also much more a fan of Brian's young voice. I doubt I will play BWPS much anymore but I am glad it happened.  I still don't like how they "finished" some of the songs lyrically. The hot as hell and father of the sun stuff doesn't sit well with me. Darian's input was great as far as reconstructing it, but again that it helped the real tapes come out is what is most important to me. All in all in 2004 you are hearing a cool piece of old music slightly revamped. The madcap inspiration and spookiness is all on the Beach Boys recordings. I just like the original blend as good as Wondermints are.

Glad someone agrees with me - well said!

Thank you. I also want to say that it's partially the great period sound of 1961-72 that endears me to the classic Beach Boys or any music from the early fifties to the early seventies. We can get close to it, but few get it perfect.

I actually got a new appreciation for Brian Wilson's version from The Smile Sessions. Its astonishing how close the instrumentals are to the originals (minus the electric keyboard instead of piano, and the organ sound used on "Good Vibrations" which drive me nuts!!! ), it really shines through how painstaking it must've been recreating them.

And though the overall sound and blend aren't the same, Brian and co. did a great job re-creating the "vocal atmosphere" of the originals.

To me, even though Brian Wilson Presents Smile is "more finished" lyrically and vocally, for sheer emotional prowess and the immense work that went into it, The Smile Sessions takes a slight lead for me.

On a scale from 1 to 10, I would give

Pet Sounds / 10
BWPS / 8
BBS / 5

Don't get me wrong, I love the SMiLE boxset, but the finished BB album doesn't work for me, it's just not finished enough. For example, the "Great Shape", "Barnyard" vocals from that recorded interview Brian gave in 66 over the backing tracks sound really poor, out of rhythm at times. This never sounded good on fan mixes before and doesn't now. There are so many karaoke tracks on BB SMiLE, it would have been a better idea to record vocals for all of them or leave them all unvocalized, except something was really recorded back in the day. Just my view. But otherwise it's great to have all the sessions and pieces in excellent quality.

Listening back to BWPS I think it sounds very rushed, the sound is nowhere near the original recordings and sounds far too synth based. Live and it sounded great, but the album sounds like they just went in and recorded as they would perform it. Also I think I prefer tracks like Do You Dig Worms without the vocals. BBSS has such a great vibe to it, almost eerie in parts.

It was rushed.

Apparently (can't remember where I heard this) the fakesichord, which is a real bone of contention with most SMiLE fans, was only supposed to be temporary. They were going to put real harpsichord on there, but Brian said "No, it's fine"

I somehow get the feeling Brian wanted to be in and out and back to his oldies but goldies

I reckon that post is up there..I understand it is your view but gee strange view..In my opinion

After hearing the cleaned up version of Smile on Disk1 I was amazed at how close to replicating the original music BWPS was. Where it still fails for me everytime is the vocals. Obviously Brian can't sound like he did 40 years ago, but his band just can't pull of the classic Beach Boy vocal blend. The most notable example is no one can do Mike. The bass vocals lack the unique timbre of his voice. I don't want this to sound like a knock at the Wondermints, it's not just them. Everytime I hear any  Beach Boys inspired song I notice no one can achieve a decent Mike.

The bass on the new box is awesome.. aside from the dog eared nerds that can't appreciate, some elizabethan actress wearing Nike's!!
Mike's vocal is part of that bass as is the reverb we hear..
I love how it comes in on the bicycle rider part..

The Explorers Club have a pretty good Mike sound.

Seeing SMiLE live was the nearest thing to a religious experience I have ever had in my life.

I'm not saying it made me believe in a spirit being, but it had the effect on my described by people who have major religious experiences.

A moment not to be missed, and one that perhaps cannot be explained to those who were not there. Being in the same room as Brian Wilson and his band performed SMiLE was amazing.

Misheard lyrics always crack me up. I laugh like an 11 year old at this stuff. :lol  Give me more of it!
No DIS to the people mishearing them.  (Well since you put me down there've been owls puking in my bed!) 

Funny thing is, when I first heard BWPS -- having had no exposure to any Beach Boys Smile recordings -- I thought the backing band vocals sounded fantastic. I even wrote down at the time that the vocals were a highlight of the disc. But now that I've had the original versions ingrained in my head, I find myself more critical of BWPS now, and it has nothing to do with the talent of the backing band. The Beach Boys just set incredibly high standards.

I love BWPS but IMHO as good as Brian's band are vocally and instrumentally, they can't match the quality of the BBs vocally or the ability of the Wrecking Crew

Especially since the lead vocal melody in Roll Plymouth Rock is decidedly inferior to the amazing Worms melody 1966 Brian shares with us in CD 3 Track 1.

Not according to this Sound on Sound article (http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/Oct04/articles/smile.htm):

"An early plan to replace the sampled Kurzweil harpsichord with the real thing later was abandoned, as everyone professed themselves happy with the sounds from the K2600 on hearing rough mixes."

Personally, I've never had a problem with the sound. I still prefer the sound of the original, but I feel like many BWPS bashers dislike it on principle that it's a software instrument.

Also, given the rest of the work to make the album sound authentic, if Mark and Darian OK it, it probably can't be that bad.

I can relate very well. I had expressly avoided all info and all rave descriptions beforehand, having a ticket for Feb 24, 2004. For me, Ms. O'Leary's Cow was the zenith, the apex, the pivotal point, the mountain, the peak, and the ultimate of ultimates. When the 'Woody Woodpecker Chant' kicked in, I forgot time and place, and felt Eternity.

And I am a religious person. I bet God had a good time in that particular week too.

I don't particularly care that it's a software instrument - what bothers me is that for a guy who was obsessive about achieving the perfect sound in the studio, Brian was content to just say "ok that's close enough," something he'd never do in 1966.  And it's even more perplexing in light of the fact that they went to great lengths to get the right sounds on the rest of the album, and did a pretty damn good job of it.  So why not just take it the rest of the way and get a real harpsichord?

Also, you can get a LOT better samples than the Kurzweil - you don't have to look very far to find some very decent ones you can load up in Kontakt.

Because the producer, one Mr. Brian Wilson, said he was satisfied with it. The 1966 Brian ain't coming back. So if the 2004 Brian says something, do you make him fight it out with his former self? And if you do, aren't you one more person trying to manipulate him into doing what you want him to do?

Some harpsichord samples make BWPS synth based? The studio had both an upright and grand piano, both of which are on the record.

The album was also expressly not recorded as they performed it. At Brian's request, it was recorded in sections, just like the original sessions.


They did spend three months spent on lead and backing vocals. That doesn't sound rushed to me.

Yet, the overall sound is slick, and quite overproduced to my ears - most to do with mixing/mastering, and perhaps the lack of tape. This was also Brian's choice.

I don't know if overproduced is quite the word you want here.

But yes ... the finished sound to BWPS is one its less appealing aspects. I would call it just a bit too careful.

Yeah, perhaps overproduced is the wrong word. It sounds to me that they could have easily applied more vintage compressors, pre-amps (tubes, etc), etc and use tape to make it sound more vintage.
Anyways, that wouldn't really change Brian's voice, nor the Wondermints' blend (as great as they are).

I do agree here, as this is something that could have easily been done without Brian caring particularly one way or the other.

It's definitely part of what Andy Paley did in his mid-90s work with Brian, and I happen to think the sonic results are very appealing.

Absolutely. By the way, that made me think of 'This Song Wants to Sleep With You Tonight' - what an amazing song. In my opinion better than anything Brian has done post Imagination.

You haven't heard the vinyl have you?  It was cut from an analog tape and sounds incredible.

I have heard people praise the BWPS vinyl to the skies ...

I am a little dubious. Regardless of the role tape plays in the transfer, the album was still recorded and processed digitally.

Basically, the sound that people are praising would seem to me to be a certain amount of sonic degradation / "warmness" introduced by transferring the music to tape and then mastering to vinyl. And I'm sure that sounds good, but it's not really "real" to me somehow. I'd prefer something recorded / mixed / mastered warmly to begin with.

Couldn't have said it better myself. :)

Is BWPS still in print? (on the shelves not amazon) because if it's isn't or it's become very hard to find then I don't know how TSS can help the sells of it if people can't get it or can only get it from amazon..

You haven't heard it then?  I highly suggest you check it out.  You will be very surprised.  Also, keep in mind that it was a different mastering engineer than the cd and the analog tape was made from the high res digital files, not the 16 bit cd version.  The difference is really night and day.

I'd love to hear the vinyl or at least a needle-drop but have never been able to find such things  :( maybe one day.


Recorded digitally i.e. to hard disk yes.  But according to the aforementioned SOS article, most of the actual mixing (and thus much of the processing) was done in the analogue domain through Mark's console and effort was made to impart some more analogue/authentic character in certain parts of the signal chain such as the Universal Audio preamps that are 'based' on those of the original 60s console(s) that Brian used.  Obviously this does not magically overcome the inherent traits of digital, but as digital is considered to be somewhat transparent, is the said transfer to tape just a further step towards completing a more authentic overall signal chain?  If ya get what I mean...:)

Wow, that is surprising - You'd think this would be more apparent on the final product then (the CD included).

Good catch. I had remembered otherwise, but I didn't go back and check the booklet.

Caring about using software for one instrument on BWPS and dismissing the project due to it is pretty laughable imo.

Well if you read the posts above carefully you'd see that that was only _one_ of the reasons for preferring TSS over BWPS. :)

While I LOVE Brian Wilson Presents Smile, I have to say that the lack of a real harpsichord on "Wonderful" and the organ as used on the original "Good Vibrations" is perplexing. Especially in the face of how close the instrumental tracks to songs like "Roll Plymouth Rock" and "On A Holiday" (just for 2 examples!) are to their '67 counterparts.

Nothing to do with preferring one over the other, I just think it's a silly reason to hate on BWPS. I doubt anyone would know any better if not for it being stated.

I don't think anyone is saying they hate it. I said I don't dig like some of the sonic choices, being a modern recording it is VERY clean and I think for the material it suffers from that. The harpsichord does sound cheap to me ( I LOVE the sound of a real harpsichord) but it doesn't distract me from enjoying the album as a whole.

I've enjoyed reading this discussion (I wish I'd been back on board when it was current). 

My two cents worth (or less).  I come at this question from the perspective of a musician and songwriter.  For me, it was a very emotional thing to read of Brian and Van Dyke coming back together after so many years and actually finishing this great masterpiece they'd begun creating in 1966.  Hearing these tracks I'd heard and learned every nuance of on the bootlegs finally with lyrics and finishing touches such as string and vocal arrangements was truly one of the most thrilling events of my life.  I have fallen in love with BWPS again and again since 2004, and it's happened all over again to me with the release of The SMiLE Sessions (which I've only gotten to hear in it's 2CD form so far--but Christmastime's a-comin'...). 

I think that ten or twenty years down the road, it will be a settled fact that the completion of SMiLE in 2004 marked a milestone in pop music unprecedented, and never to be duplicated.  It will also be a settled fact that BWPS made the release of the SMiLE Sessions not only possible, but inevitable.  And together, the two releases will stand alone as the most amazing musical resurrection story in the entire history of popular music--or even of all music, regardless of genre or style.

Great post, I absolutely adore SMiLE 2004, I did cry when I first heard that, it was made with such care and all that great music was finally finished and given a great form. For me as a fan this was a massively important event and I think for Brian & Van Dyke it was too. I also agree that it put Brian in the space to release the original recordings. The two versions serve different purposes and various fans will favour one or the other and some will get as much out of both. But having them both in the public domain is such a relief and it means they can finally be judged for what they are, great music, not just for their legend.