What will happen to BWPS's reputation after 1st November

[tansen]

It doesn't really bother me that it is 'missing' vocals, no. This is how we have heard the Smile material up until 2004, so to me it sounds worse adding lyrics and such almost 40 years after. The Smile Sessions from the 60s is to me authentic, and I also prefer the fidelity of those old recordings. I also find BWPS production wise to be a little too slick sounding, and I'm not a fan of the use of a Kurzweil harpsichord samples either.

So basically, you're saying that you've simply gotten so used to listening to the bootlegged version of SMiLE--which contained songs that had no vocals at all that any other version is basically unacceptable?  You're satisfied with the instrumental tracks, "Song for Children" and "Child Is Father Of The Man?"  It's great that you really enjoy those recordings as they were but I don't think the aesthetics of these recordings are anything to judge the musical content by.  The quality of a song isn't going to be automatically better over something recorded in 2004 just because it was recorded on analog in th 60's.  That still doesn't fix the problem that the song is unfinished. 

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I'm used to CIFOTM and Look without vocals - all though the former does have some amazing backing vocals. I'm not saying that any other version is unacceptable, I'm just saying that they are redundant - not my cup of tea. I'm not sure what you have heard of bootlegs - or in fact the new Smile Sessions, but I do think that you most definitely can judge the musical content by it. To me CD1 of TSS flows more than nice enough, and the fidelity is great.

Um, no I think you are wrong there, I do think The Wondermints are trying to sound like the Beach Boys anno the 60s, because they are in fact Brian's backing band. I'm not claiming they are trying to fool anyone by being Beach Boys imposers or anything, but I would say trying to vocally sound like the Beach Boys would be a goal anyhow. I'm glad Brian did 'finish' Smile in 2004, because it quite obviously paved the way for this glorious 2011 release, but like I said, to me BWPS, was and is redundant.

How else would you expect the Wondermints to sound?  They are singing the exact same parts as Mike, Carl, Dennis, Al and Bruce sang them all those years before.  The notes are exactly the same...of course they're going to sound like the original arrangements.  To me, none of the voices even come close to any of th eoriginal Beach Boys.  They were all assigned the same vocal parts that Brian worked with...so there wasn't going to be a change in vocal parts.   I don't hear any comparison at all...these are just a group of people singing Brian's parts. and the two are not exchangable..  I cannot listen to the 2004 version of "Our Prayer" at all...it just doesn't cut it for me.  The vocal blend isn't there.  The original version is simply heaven.  They are the same notes...but a whole batch of different voices, completely.  Sorry, I don't see them trying to BE anyone.  If they did....many people here would be able to chuck all their original versions of these songs in favor the versions found on BWPS and I don't think anyone (including me) is doing that.   

BWPS shouldn't really offend anyone because Brian re-recorded the songs.  It'd be one thing if he bastardized the recordings by recording new vocals over the old backing tracks.  That would've been awful.  But that didn't happen.  What he did with BWPS was appropriate.  He finished what he had started.

First off, I completely agree with Peter. All though I didn't see it live in London, I did see it in Norway, and that was a near out-of-body-experience. That concert was definitely one of the highlights in my concert-going life (Seeing GNR in 1991 is another).
Now, BWPS does not offend me, but like you say the Wondermints does not sound like the BB, because the BBs blend/voices are naturally unique. So in the same way that you can't listen to BWPS' 'Prayer', I'm having trouble listening to the album as a whole due to the 'problems' I have mentioned above (Brian's voice, the Wondermints not sounding enough like the BB, Harpsichord, etc). I just prefer the original sessions, that's all - even if they are incomplete. And like I said, listening through CD1 on TSS, did not feel choppy to me at all.


Oh and, John, haha!

[cablegeddon]

I can play the role of Joe Public since I heard BWPS before I heard any of the bootlegs or TSS.

I still prefer BWPS because it's what I'm used to. I do recognize the superiority of the original vocals and how shot Brians voice was in 2004.

There's a couple of things on BWPS that are difficult to live without for me: The first 2 seconds of H&V "brrrrr", the power of "Brother Joe" in Surf's up, the great vocals and instrumentation in the "chorus" of wonderful......

[Iron Horse-Apples]

There's a couple of things on BWPS that are difficult to live without for me: The first 2 seconds of H&V "brrrrr", the power of "Brother Joe" in Surf's up, the great vocals and instrumentation in the "chorus" of wonderful......

It's actually "Brother John"

Are you sleeping Brother John, which obviously tranlates as....

Frère Jacques, frère Jacques,
Dormez-vous? Dormez-vous?

Children's song.

[Amanda Hart]

I don't know what the box will do to the reputation of BWPS, but sales should see an increase. As I was reading the book in the box last night, nearly every essay mentions BWPS. If I had not heard it yet, that book would leave me very curious. I realize that there are probably not an overwhelming number of people who bought the box, read all the essays and don't have BWPS, but it is feasible, especially if someone's interest in Smile or The Beach Boys picked up after 2004. All of the writers did a great job of respecting BWPS for what it is.

[Dr. Tim]

I see no reason why the two cannot go hand in hand, especially with the live Smile DVD out there too.  When BWPS was fresh I always told people also to check out the original sessions to compare, to see how full the conception already was in 1966-67, unfinished though it was.  And now it is assembled nicely, in good fidelity, for that A-B comparison.
And anyone who is put off by the BWPS CD can appreciate Smile as a finished concert piece, as performed on the DVD.

[The Heartical Don]

1. BWPS' reputation will only increase. The fact that Brian did it at all, the fact that both the shows and the record are great achievements in their own right, and the fact that it was the first time that Smile was presented as a totality, a coherent operetta, if you will. Just read Bob Christgau's review of it and you know what I mean.

2. I think it is not far from the truth that, had BWPS been less of a success, both musically and in terms of people attending the shows and buying the CD, the box we have today simply wouldn't be there. So BWPS paved the way for TSS.

For this listener, BWPS the record and BWPS live hang beautifully together with TSS. It is utterly foolish to discard BWPS because now we have the 'real thing'. BWPS is an artist reclaiming his own legacy, not some forgery, folks.

[desmondo]

1. BWPS' reputation will only increase. The fact that Brian did it at all, the fact that both the shows and the record are great achievements in their own right, and the fact that it was the first time that Smile was presented as a totality, a coherent operetta, if you will. Just read Bob Christgau's review of it and you know what I mean.

2. I think it is not far from the truth that, had BWPS been less of a success, both musically and in terms of people attending the shows and buying the CD, the box we have today simply wouldn't be there. So BWPS paved the way for TSS.

For this listener, BWPS the record and BWPS live hang beautifully together with TSS. It is utterly foolish to discard BWPS because now we have the 'real thing'. BWPS is an artist reclaiming his own legacy, not some forgery, folks.

Couldn't have said it better myself HD

[The Heartical Don]

1. BWPS' reputation will only increase. The fact that Brian did it at all, the fact that both the shows and the record are great achievements in their own right, and the fact that it was the first time that Smile was presented as a totality, a coherent operetta, if you will. Just read Bob Christgau's review of it and you know what I mean.

2. I think it is not far from the truth that, had BWPS been less of a success, both musically and in terms of people attending the shows and buying the CD, the box we have today simply wouldn't be there. So BWPS paved the way for TSS.

For this listener, BWPS the record and BWPS live hang beautifully together with TSS. It is utterly foolish to discard BWPS because now we have the 'real thing'. BWPS is an artist reclaiming his own legacy, not some forgery, folks.

Couldn't have said it better myself HD

Thank you Desmondo, I really appreciate your words.

[buddhahat]

There's a couple of things on BWPS that are difficult to live without for me: The first 2 seconds of H&V "brrrrr", the power of "Brother Joe" in Surf's up, the great vocals and instrumentation in the "chorus" of wonderful......

It's actually "Brother John"

Are you sleeping Brother John, which obviously tranlates as....

Frère Jacques, frère Jacques,
Dormez-vous? Dormez-vous?

Children's song.

On the subject of mishearing lyrics, there was a guy who posted shortly after the leak of Midnight's Another Day asking:

What's with that line; A fly without the wings?

No disrespect to the poster as we've all done it but it cracks me up every time I hear the song.

[Austin]

As someone whose first exposure to Smile was through BWPS, I think they compliment each other perfectly.

What I like so much about the two releases is that they don't really pretend to be the other. TSS embraces its fragmentary nature, taking more time to highlight the individual pieces; BWPS does this less, instead embracing the fact that it is coherent throughout. So, when I want to hear specific fragments or songs, I go through the Beach Boys' versions pulled from CD1. And when I want to hear a full, cohesive album, BWPS does the trick.

[MBE]

Now having heard the complete 2 LP set (of both) I must say BWPS was a good thing. If it helped bring about what we have got this week it's damn great. I loved seeing the live show too. Still I am a Beach Boys fan and also much more a fan of Brian's young voice. I doubt I will play BWPS much anymore but I am glad it happened.  I still don't like how they "finished" some of the songs lyrically. The hot as hell and father of the sun stuff doesn't sit well with me. Darian's input was great as far as reconstructing it, but again that it helped the real tapes come out is what is most important to me. All in all in 2004 you are hearing a cool piece of old music slightly revamped. The madcap inspiration and spookiness is all on the Beach Boys recordings. I just like the original blend as good as Wondermints are.

[tansen]

Now having heard the complete 2 LP set (of both) I must say BWPS was a good thing. If it helped bring about what we have got this week it's damn great. I loved seeing the live show too. Still I am a Beach Boys fan and also much more a fan of Brian's young voice. I doubt I will play BWPS much anymore but I am glad it happened.  I still don't like how they "finished" some of the songs lyrically. The hot as hell and father of the sun stuff doesn't sit well with me. Darian's input was great as far as reconstructing it, but again that it helped the real tapes come out is what is most important to me. All in all in 2004 you are hearing a cool piece of old music slightly revamped. The madcap inspiration and spookiness is all on the Beach Boys recordings. I just like the original blend as good as Wondermints are.

Glad someone agrees with me - well said!

[MBE]

Thank you. I also want to say that it's partially the great period sound of 1961-72 that endears me to the classic Beach Boys or any music from the early fifties to the early seventies. We can get close to it, but few get it perfect.

[positivemusic]

I actually got a new appreciation for Brian Wilson's version from The Smile Sessions. Its astonishing how close the instrumentals are to the originals (minus the electric keyboard instead of piano, and the organ sound used on "Good Vibrations" which drive me nuts!!! ), it really shines through how painstaking it must've been recreating them.

And though the overall sound and blend aren't the same, Brian and co. did a great job re-creating the "vocal atmosphere" of the originals.

To me, even though Brian Wilson Presents Smile is "more finished" lyrically and vocally, for sheer emotional prowess and the immense work that went into it, The Smile Sessions takes a slight lead for me.

[Jaspy]

On a scale from 1 to 10, I would give

Pet Sounds / 10
BWPS / 8
BBS / 5

Don't get me wrong, I love the SMiLE boxset, but the finished BB album doesn't work for me, it's just not finished enough. For example, the "Great Shape", "Barnyard" vocals from that recorded interview Brian gave in 66 over the backing tracks sound really poor, out of rhythm at times. This never sounded good on fan mixes before and doesn't now. There are so many karaoke tracks on BB SMiLE, it would have been a better idea to record vocals for all of them or leave them all unvocalized, except something was really recorded back in the day. Just my view. But otherwise it's great to have all the sessions and pieces in excellent quality.

[debonbon]

I actually got a new appreciation for Brian Wilson's version from The Smile Sessions. Its astonishing how close the instrumentals are to the originals (minus the electric keyboard instead of piano, and the organ sound used on "Good Vibrations" which drive me nuts!!! ), it really shines through how painstaking it must've been recreating them.

And though the overall sound and blend aren't the same, Brian and co. did a great job re-creating the "vocal atmosphere" of the originals.

To me, even though Brian Wilson Presents Smile is "more finished" lyrically and vocally, for sheer emotional prowess and the immense work that went into it, The Smile Sessions takes a slight lead for me.

Listening back to BWPS I think it sounds very rushed, the sound is nowhere near the original recordings and sounds far too synth based. Live and it sounded great, but the album sounds like they just went in and recorded as they would perform it. Also I think I prefer tracks like Do You Dig Worms without the vocals. BBSS has such a great vibe to it, almost eerie in parts.

[Iron Horse-Apples]

I actually got a new appreciation for Brian Wilson's version from The Smile Sessions. Its astonishing how close the instrumentals are to the originals (minus the electric keyboard instead of piano, and the organ sound used on "Good Vibrations" which drive me nuts!!! ), it really shines through how painstaking it must've been recreating them.

And though the overall sound and blend aren't the same, Brian and co. did a great job re-creating the "vocal atmosphere" of the originals.

To me, even though Brian Wilson Presents Smile is "more finished" lyrically and vocally, for sheer emotional prowess and the immense work that went into it, The Smile Sessions takes a slight lead for me.

Listening back to BWPS I think it sounds very rushed, the sound is nowhere near the original recordings and sounds far too synth based. Live and it sounded great, but the album sounds like they just went in and recorded as they would perform it. Also I think I prefer tracks like Do You Dig Worms without the vocals. BBSS has such a great vibe to it, almost eerie in parts.

It was rushed.

Apparently (can't remember where I heard this) the fakesichord, which is a real bone of contention with most SMiLE fans, was only supposed to be temporary. They were going to put real harpsichord on there, but Brian said "No, it's fine"

I somehow get the feeling Brian wanted to be in and out and back to his oldies but goldies

[18thofMay]

On a scale from 1 to 10, I would give

Pet Sounds / 10
BWPS / 8
BBS / 5

Don't get me wrong, I love the SMiLE boxset, but the finished BB album doesn't work for me, it's just not finished enough. For example, the "Great Shape", "Barnyard" vocals from that recorded interview Brian gave in 66 over the backing tracks sound really poor, out of rhythm at times. This never sounded good on fan mixes before and doesn't now. There are so many karaoke tracks on BB SMiLE, it would have been a better idea to record vocals for all of them or leave them all unvocalized, except something was really recorded back in the day. Just my view. But otherwise it's great to have all the sessions and pieces in excellent quality.

I reckon that post is up there..I understand it is your view but gee strange view..In my opinion

[Mike's Beard]

After hearing the cleaned up version of Smile on Disk1 I was amazed at how close to replicating the original music BWPS was. Where it still fails for me everytime is the vocals. Obviously Brian can't sound like he did 40 years ago, but his band just can't pull of the classic Beach Boy vocal blend. The most notable example is no one can do Mike. The bass vocals lack the unique timbre of his voice. I don't want this to sound like a knock at the Wondermints, it's not just them. Everytime I hear any  Beach Boys inspired song I notice no one can achieve a decent Mike.

[18thofMay]

After hearing the cleaned up version of Smile on Disk1 I was amazed at how close to replicating the original music BWPS was. Where it still fails for me everytime is the vocals. Obviously Brian can't sound like he did 40 years ago, but his band just can't pull of the classic Beach Boy vocal blend. The most notable example is no one can do Mike. The bass vocals lack the unique timbre of his voice. I don't want this to sound like a knock at the Wondermints, it's not just them. Everytime I hear any  Beach Boys inspired song I notice no one can achieve a decent Mike.

The bass on the new box is awesome.. aside from the dog eared nerds that can't appreciate, some elizabethan actress wearing Nike's!!
Mike's vocal is part of that bass as is the reverb we hear..
I love how it comes in on the bicycle rider part..

[debonbon]

After hearing the cleaned up version of Smile on Disk1 I was amazed at how close to replicating the original music BWPS was. Where it still fails for me everytime is the vocals. Obviously Brian can't sound like he did 40 years ago, but his band just can't pull of the classic Beach Boy vocal blend. The most notable example is no one can do Mike. The bass vocals lack the unique timbre of his voice. I don't want this to sound like a knock at the Wondermints, it's not just them. Everytime I hear any  Beach Boys inspired song I notice no one can achieve a decent Mike.

The Explorers Club have a pretty good Mike sound.

[absinthe_boy]

Smile live in London in February 2004 was the highlight of my musical life. The DVD or CD captures some of it, but it's just not the same. The Smile Sessions is the base material for Smile 2004.  It all hangs together....but there is nothing in my musical experience like that series of shows in London...

Seeing SMiLE live was the nearest thing to a religious experience I have ever had in my life.

I'm not saying it made me believe in a spirit being, but it had the effect on my described by people who have major religious experiences.

A moment not to be missed, and one that perhaps cannot be explained to those who were not there. Being in the same room as Brian Wilson and his band performed SMiLE was amazing.

[donald]

There's a couple of things on BWPS that are difficult to live without for me: The first 2 seconds of H&V "brrrrr", the power of "Brother Joe" in Surf's up, the great vocals and instrumentation in the "chorus" of wonderful......

It's actually "Brother John"

Are you sleeping Brother John, which obviously tranlates as....

Frère Jacques, frère Jacques,
Dormez-vous? Dormez-vous?

Children's song.

On the subject of mishearing lyrics, there was a guy who posted shortly after the leak of Midnight's Another Day asking:

What's with that line; A fly without the wings?

No disrespect to the poster as we've all done it but it cracks me up every time I hear the song.

Misheard lyrics always crack me up. I laugh like an 11 year old at this stuff.   Give me more of it!
No DIS to the people mishearing them.  (Well since you put me down there've been owls puking in my bed!) 

[Austin]

I don't want this to sound like a knock at the Wondermints, it's not just them. Everytime I hear any  Beach Boys inspired song I notice no one can achieve a decent Mike.

Funny thing is, when I first heard BWPS -- having had no exposure to any Beach Boys Smile recordings -- I thought the backing band vocals sounded fantastic. I even wrote down at the time that the vocals were a highlight of the disc. But now that I've had the original versions ingrained in my head, I find myself more critical of BWPS now, and it has nothing to do with the talent of the backing band. The Beach Boys just set incredibly high standards.

[desmondo]

I don't want this to sound like a knock at the Wondermints, it's not just them. Everytime I hear any  Beach Boys inspired song I notice no one can achieve a decent Mike.

Funny thing is, when I first heard BWPS -- having had no exposure to any Beach Boys Smile recordings -- I thought the backing band vocals sounded fantastic. I even wrote down at the time that the vocals were a highlight of the disc. But now that I've had the original versions ingrained in my head, I find myself more critical of BWPS now, and it has nothing to do with the talent of the backing band. The Beach Boys just set incredibly high standards.

I love BWPS but IMHO as good as Brian's band are vocally and instrumentally, they can't match the quality of the BBs vocally or the ability of the Wrecking Crew